An open letter to all at F1Rejects.com

[Ataxia]

Dear all,

I have become increasingly disgusted with the discourse and discussion about certain drivers on here. As a website that encourages "respectful and reverent discussion", it is appalling that some people feel the need to throw about personal insults regarding members of this forum as well as the drivers that make our Sunday afternoons worth living. This behaviour has to stop.

One of the obvious targets for messages that have no other purpose to provoke is the reigning world champion Sebastian Vettel. I am well aware that Vettel is an individual who divides opinion; some agree that Vettel has maximised his chances and become one of the world's most talented Formula 1 drivers, whereas others have become bored of his victories and therefore feel the need to complain that it ruins the spectacle. I'd expect such behaviour from other forums, but not F1Rejects. This shouldn't be our problem.

The primary purpose of this website to celebrate ALL drivers, no matter how successful, and quite frankly Vettel's results should quite rightly be celebrated. He is one of the most successful drivers of the modern era and having driven splendidly for the past 4 years deserves every accolade that he has earned, no matter how good his car is. Whether or not his personality is abrasive or not, you seem to be missing the point. Formula 1 is NOT a personality contest.

Of course, this forum has expanded greatly since its humble beginnings, and this will undoubtedly bring new members whose opinions may not level with our own. I implore you all, please post in what the spirit of the forum was created for. Please do not post messages out of anger due to a race result that didn't necessarily have the order you wanted, because in life you don't always get what you want. It's important to remember that there are plenty of members on here with differing views on things, and thus you should not attempt to provoke their anger and contempt.

I have thoroughly enjoyed my time on this forum, and I really do not wish for this to change. I would imagine that the majority of you would agree.

I thank those of you who DO indulge in light-hearted but ultimately respectful discussion of current and past Formula 1 affairs, and to those who do not I hope this letter serves as something of a wake-up call. For the rare member who comes here ONLY to confound and annoy, I ask you kindly to use the door.

Thank you,

Ataxia

[dr-baker]

Amen brother.

EDIT: I may not like Vettel but I stick to the principle that if you have nothing nice to say (or write/type!), then say (/write/type/...) nothing at all.

[solarcold]

Agree wholeheartedly.

[CoopsII]

C'mon Moderators its time to stop gently reminding and start taking action.

[Alextrax52]

Dear all,

I have become increasingly disgusted with the discourse and discussion about certain drivers on here. As a website that encourages "respectful and reverent discussion", it is appalling that some people feel the need to throw about personal insults regarding members of this forum as well as the drivers that make our Sunday afternoons worth living. This behaviour has to stop.

One of the obvious targets for messages that have no other purpose to provoke is the reigning world champion Sebastian Vettel. I am well aware that Vettel is an individual who divides opinion; some agree that Vettel has maximised his chances and become one of the world's most talented Formula 1 drivers, whereas others have become bored of his victories and therefore feel the need to complain that it ruins the spectacle. I'd expect such behaviour from other forums, but not F1Rejects. This shouldn't be our problem.

The primary purpose of this website to celebrate ALL drivers, no matter how successful, and quite frankly Vettel's results should quite rightly be celebrated. He is one of the most successful drivers of the modern era and having driven splendidly for the past 4 years deserves every accolade that he has earned, no matter how good his car is. Whether or not his personality is abrasive or not, you seem to be missing the point. Formula 1 is NOT a personality contest.

Of course, this forum has expanded greatly since its humble beginnings, and this will undoubtedly bring new members whose opinions may not level with our own. I implore you all, please post in what the spirit of the forum was created for. Please do not post messages out of anger due to a race result that didn't necessarily have the order you wanted, because in life you don't always get what you want. It's important to remember that there are plenty of members on here with differing views on things, and thus you should not attempt to provoke their anger and contempt.

I have thoroughly enjoyed my time on this forum, and I really do not wish for this to change. I would imagine that the majority of you would agree.

I thank those of you who DO indulge in light-hearted but ultimately respectful discussion of current and past Formula 1 affairs, and to those who do not I hope this letter serves as something of a wake-up call. For the rare member who comes here ONLY to confound and annoy, I ask you kindly to use the door.

Thank you,

Ataxia

Agree 100%. When I signed on to this forum I just wanted to have some light hearted banterous discussion with other people who know so much about F1 and Motorsport in general. I didn't want to get roped in to defending Vettel from all these comments. I am anything but a Vettel fan even though my general impression is that i am one but I respect what he has done and it's been fantastic. You are right that you can't get the results you want all the time (I for example am a bit disappointed when Webber or Rosberg don't make the podium) and we have to accept that. Sure I am a bit fiery at the best of times but it's not because I'm criticizing drivers or forum members it's because i'm so passionate about the sport (How many people do you know have followed F1 since they were 4) and get incredibly agitated when people criticize drivers or trot out that dreadful phrase (Cars going round in circles).

[Onxy Wrecked]

Vettel may be F1's Clint Bowyer who sets consistency records in a car miles above anyone else, but he did take a Toro Rosso to 4th back when Toro Rosso was a reject team akin to the likes of Fondmetal.

[S951]

I haven't been on recently enough to notice but have noticed things crop up in race threads from time to time, but like others agree on whats being said

[Barbazza]

Too right Ataxia. I might be bored with Vettel winning, but I certainly do not hate him. On days such as today you have to appreciate his talents even if you have other favourites as I do.

[pasta_maldonado]

I'm glad someone has finally come forward to say something like this, because it is certainly something we've all been collectively thinking.

It is sad to see the state of some of the threads on here.

[Nuppiz]

I completely agree with the sentiments echoed in this post. I understand people having strong opinions about certain drivers and teams, and don't mind well-argumented discussions about the present state of Formula 1. But constant berating of certain people, no matter how irritating they or their performances might be at times, must stop, as it doesn't contribute towards a meaningful discussion. For this very reason I rarely post in the PSMF any more, although I still keep an eye on things.

From here on in, any excessively slanderous posts will result in a formal warning applied to the user's account (yes, that is indeed possible on this forum software). Racking up enough warnings (three within six months, or five within a year) may result in a temporary ban (one week).

tl;dr: Everyone calm down. We know that Vettel, Red Bull and di Resta (among others) aren't on your list of favorite drivers and teams. No need to keep bringing that up in every post.

[mario]

C'mon Moderators its time to stop gently reminding and start taking action.

A change in personal circumstances (for the better in the long term, fortunately) has cut into the free time that I once had and means that Nuppiz has had to bear more of the burden of moderating the forums. With Nuppiz tending to specialise in other parts of the forum and having not been quite so active in this part of the forum myself, I think that perhaps it has allowed things to build up over a period of time to the point where they are now. Whilst I would be saddened if I have to start taking harsher actions against those who are disruptive, perhaps Nuppiz has a point about needing to be a bit stricter.

Now, it must be said that this forum is, on the whole, a lot more amicable than some forums out there given that most of those posting here are willing to give and take to a far greater degree. Still, I must admit to a certain weariness at times with the general rancour, not just here but across much of the fanbase, about the state of the sport and the attitude of the fans to the drivers. I cannot deny that it has been a bit disheartening to read some of the more bitter posts here, and I cannot deny that it has started to erode a little of my enthusiasm in the past few months (and perhaps, to a certain extent, also acted as a slight discouragement for me to post here quite so often).
It is perhaps getting to the point where I will be somewhat relieved when the season is over, since it might allow some of the frustrations that have built up to dissipate a little with the opportunity for something of a fresh start. I will certainly not pretend that disagreements will never occur - there are always going to be times when passions run high and various posters do not see eye to eye - but there does need to be a way for us to let off steam without making things worse for everybody else.

[roblo97]

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments in this post so far.

A change in personal circumstances (for the better in the long term, fortunately) has cut into the free time that I once had and means that Nuppiz has had to bear more of the burden of moderating the forums. With Nuppiz tending to specialise in other parts of the forum and having not been quite so active in this part of the forum myself, I think that perhaps it has allowed things to build up over a period of time to the point where they are now.

I think that perhaps one or maybe two short term moderators could solve the issue but with the number of posts on this forum this year, would mean a lot of free time needed. Please note, this is only a suggestion and the chances of it being implemented are slim because I am not sure as to the minimum amount of experience recommended for moderators and if you need to be a certain age; this makes my idea rather flawed.

[Nessafox]

I do admire Mario's style of always trying to work towards a solution, rather than just banning. But some people are (this might sound weird, but you people will know what i mean) 'not ready for participating in this forum'. We can't give them eternally time to mature, but we will eventually welcome them back, because most of us would simply accept a simple 'sorry'.

What, in my opinion, the problem is with the current generation of forum-ers, is that they don't fully understand the specific humour style on this forum/website. This is partially because the older members joined the forum after following this site for years, and the younger members seemed to have discovered this website more recent. Because let's be honest, the first thought when you enter the website, is that it's laughing about failures. It's only when you read the content in detail, that you start to understand that this website is actually admiring these. It takes a lot of time in people's personal development to turn from 'lauging' towards 'sympathy' for the very same thing. (and many people will never reach that point at all)

The reason that this forums problems are still within acceptable levels, is because many of us prefer to be a guide towards younger people, and keep giving them a second chance. We even gave a certain member that caused a lot of trouble a second chance, not many forums would even think of doing that. I do not want to insult that certain person , but it does prove that most of us are open-minded.
Of course, in the old days, this community was small, and there were no need for any rules, but we will need these more and more. Nuppiz has done a lot of great work towards making reasonable forum rules, so please keep continuing this good work.
I believe in being constructive towards people, even towards the worst people. They might not appreciate this at this very moment, but at some point in their life, they will look back on the F1 rejects forum with a smile. Even if they got kicked out. The F1 rejects forum will give people back a little faith in humanity.

Now personally i don't mind that people hate Vettel or Di Resta, but i do mind that people can't accept each other's opinions and start pointless discussion about opinions. You simply can't discuss opinions. You can point your opinion, and you actually should point your opinion. But trying to change one's opinion is a waste of time. But please, try to be a little bit more 'friendly', we still have to live together for a very long time in this forum, so treat your enemies like you would treat your beloved ones!
I don't think anyone disagrees with me, and probably other people can say the same things in a better way, but i can't help it for trying to post my views on matters like these. I see this as an opportunity to gather experience with these situations, having started studies to become a teacher Forums are a very interesting way to see how people think, and it's very interesting to see how different forums handle things in different ways.

Now i will shut up because i really don't have anything to add, except, that i'm still happy and proud to be part of this forum!

[FMecha]

As I said in the chat last night, I blame the Fan Dumb and the Hate Dumb (especially of Vettel's and RBR's) that are plaguing the forums. Wake up guys, sure you can dislike any driver or team but no need to bait the fire and start flame war/drama.

From here on in, any excessively slanderous posts will result in a formal warning applied to the user's account (yes, that is indeed possible on this forum software). Racking up enough warnings (three within six months, or five within a year) may result in a temporary ban (one week).

In detail, what "excessively slanderous post(s)" mean?

[Eifelland]

In my (usual) capacity as lurker, things here have got a little more heated recently - I think this comes with the territory though - It happens on almost every board, of every kind on the internet.

That said, there have been some comments that have been over-the-top - and yes, they have been from both sides of the argument. Things do seems to be quietening down though - I didn't think there was anything too awful post-race, despite the fact that Grosjean lost out to a man who has won more than half the races this season. A few months ago the backlash on here would have been much worse.

Am I the only one who thinks things will sort themselves out, naturally, without the need for mod intervention?

[RonDenisDeletraz]

I agree and support this post, but I also feel that some Vettel fans here have seemed to provoke others. Other than that I agree and hope the enture forum, no matter what side they are on, stop this idiocy now

[Nuppiz]

From here on in, any excessively slanderous posts will result in a formal warning applied to the user's account (yes, that is indeed possible on this forum software). Racking up enough warnings (three within six months, or five within a year) may result in a temporary ban (one week).

In detail, what "excessively slanderous post(s)" mean?

What I mean are posts that serve no other purpose than to incite another flame war, such as still trying to keep up an argument that others have already given up on. I'm aware of people having different opinions and respect that, but as This said there is no arguing in matters of taste - it is only when these opinions are repeated ad nauseam without any basis provided that they get irritating.

Sometimes things might get heated up, but only if the arguing drags on for too long then I feel the need to step in and provide verbal warnings. I understand people saying things they normally wouldn't in the heat of the moment, so a reminder from a third party is usually enough to sober them up.

So far, we've only had to ban a total of two legitimate users, both of whom have since been allowed to come back. It's not like we're the Autosport forums yet where most of the posts consist of people arguing with each other instead of having a sensible discussion. And I doubt the situation will ever get that bad in the first place.

[Ferrim]

Sometimes things might get heated up, but only if the arguing drags on for too long then I feel the need to step in and provide verbal warnings. I understand people saying things they normally wouldn't in the heat of the moment, so a reminder from a third party is usually enough to sober them up.

So far, we've only had to ban a total of two legitimate users, both of whom have since been allowed to come back. It's not like we're the Autosport forums yet where most of the posts consist of people arguing with each other instead of having a sensible discussion. And I doubt the situation will ever get that bad in the first place.

Nuppiz is very much right to point out that the situation isn't that bad, but this post has made me remember something that happened a number of years ago, in an F1 forum that used to be a great place.

The year was 2003. I had just got an internet connection at home, I was already passionate about F1 and for the first time I could be updated about the latest info and stop looking at every corner of the journals to see if there was some info about it. I no longer needed to spend mom's money going to a cyber, which I had been doing for most of 2002, when I discovered the Internet. And it was also the year that, for the first time in remembered history, there was going to be a Spanish F1 driver in a car that was expected to be a competitive proposition. I had first read about him in late 1999, when he won a feeder class championship, and had been following him since he entered F1 in 2001.

It didn't take too long for me to come across foroalonso.com, a recently born Spanish F1 forum which, as the name suggests, was centred on Fernando Alonso. During 2003, I could finally comment on the races with other people. Those were the pre-Alonsomania and pre-Lobato days, and therefore the vast majority of the forumers were long-time fans whose interest had increased just for the same reasons that mine had: a Spanish driver in a competitive car! Therefore, and despite the forum’s name, we had many non-specifically Alonso fans, the level of debate was quite high, and it was pretty civilized as well. For example, we used to criticize Spanish commentators and even launched a protest to the TV broadcaster when, in the German GP, they blamed and even insulted Nicolas Kiesa for supposedly forcing Alonso to go out of the track, which wasn’t at all the case. No one would take Jesús Fraile’s opinion for granted: we all knew better than that.

As Alonso's season happened to be better than expected, with several podiums and finally a win (I was in tears that day), more and more people started to join. Most of them were newcomers to the sport, but they were willing to learn and brought a completely new life to the forum. The old-timers remained a majority for a while, and were able to educate those new fans. F1 content still wasn’t widespread in the Spanish media, and therefore we also had a greater chance of making an impact.
The race discussions started to run for –literally- dozens of pages, but this jump in the number of posts was nothing compared with what happened in the “off-topic” section, where the topics multiplied and personal relationships started to develop. (This, by the way, is why I’ve asked several times for an off-topic forum to be created here, although I understand the reasons for not doing so).

Soon, people started talking about every kind of matter (we even had a topic where people could express and confide their problems!), they gave their MSN addresses and multiple chats were created during and also between the races, and real life events started to pop up. I went to one of those, in Madrid in March 2006, with the excuse of the Bahrain GP –but we all wanted to know each other and share a weekend together, and F1 probably was the less important matter we talked about, at least until Sunday morning! I have some fabulous memories of that weekend, it’s hard to believe it was just two days.

Things started to turn for the worse in 2007. Certainly, as the place had become much of a social place, the emergence of social media was always going to hurt it. Facebook and specially Tuenti, which was the Spanish social network of the day, reduced the amount of traffic to the site. Some people had also grown and started to work, or going to the university –we were plenty of teenagers back in 2004-05- and this also had an impact. But F1 remained a core part of the forum, and when Alonso started running into trouble at McLaren, discussions turned sour. You know, from the outside it might look like every Spaniard was an Alonso fan, but before 2007 he had something of an “antifan” base as well. He’s always had a big mouth, and his criticism of the Renault team, or of other people (like when he won the championship and said he would just dedicate it to his friends, which were “three or four”), didn’t fall well with many people. It was a bit like Jorge Lorenzo these days. By 2007 I had stopped being a fan of his, notwithstanding the fact that I still admired (and continue to admire) his driving qualities.

As the 2007 Alonso-McLaren disaster developed, though, it seemed like criticisms of Alonso disappeared in Spain. Everyone seemed to rally around him, the honest Spaniard who was being marginalized by those perfidious English! It was widespread. “Poor Alonso”, they said. “It’s a conspiracy, they are helping Hamilton, it’s unfair, Hamilton is only fast because he copies Alonso’s setups”, and so many things the Spanish media published were unanimously repeated. It goes a bit with the Spanish character: we are our own worst critics, but we don’t let anyone else to criticize us in any way. Therefore, when critics to Alonso started to come from the outside, we rallied around him. Stupid, but that’s how I remember it.

Meanwhile, I started to go the opposite way, to the point of starting to loathe Alonso for what I perceived was a childish behaviour. I remembered well his stupid words at China the previous year, for example, when he said that maybe the team didn’t want him to win. He seemed to take very bad when he was beaten by Fisichella, even if it was very few times. I also remembered a topic in the Autosport forums in late 2006, which was called “How do you think Alonso will react if Hamilton is faster than him?”, or something to that effect. This negative side of his was seen before 2007, and that’s why I couldn’t accept the stories about McLaren being unfair to him. His behaviour looked coherent with the vision that he couldn’t accept a competitive teammate.

Sadly, this had an impact in our beloved forum. More and more new people were joining, as F1 interest in Spain was in an all-time high. The newcomers were too radicalised by what they saw, heard and read in the TV and the press, and the old timers were too few to cope with the flow… because this phenomenon got no attention from the moderators. Maybe they were happy with the increase of new users, maybe they agreed with the conspiracy view, maybe they didn’t have enough time. The fact was that the F1 discussions started to go downhill, as it became unbearable to read so many people crying foul and spreading hate on Hamilton and Dennis (and I believe “hate” is the correct word for many of the things I read). Reasonable debate, which had always been a part of the forums, went out of the window.

I kept visiting the forums, although I posted less and less, until October 2007, when I wrote a message criticizing some other user view in the Japanese GP topic I think. I would check the post, but the forum (what remained of it) has been offline and “coming back soon” for a few months. Anyway, I’ve been here for four years and I’ve got nearly 2.000 posts behind me: you know what my posting style is. I make mistakes, but I have never received an official warning in a forum. So I think you can trust me if I say that it wasn’t anything particularly bad.

To my tremendous surprise, one of the mods (the webmaster of the site, indeed, and he didn’t use to write a lot) answered to my post, telling me that it would help if I stopped whining and criticizing every post. So many months of going through poisoned debates and people turning the forum discussion into garbage, and I was the one to get reprimanded by the staff! I was so angry. I decided I would never come back to the forum, I replied to that post in those terms (that other people was way more deserving and nothing happened to them, that I was leaving the forums for good because it was completely unfair) and I left.

Granted, I probably overreacted, and the answer I got was harsh but nothing in itself to leave a forum, but it was the last straw. It hurt to see the forum in that situation, and there I had proof that it wasn’t going to change anytime soon. I couldn’t discuss F1 in real life, and now I couldn’t in what used to be my favourite place –I saw no point in staying there. That same evening, I registered in some English forums that I used to read, like the Autosport forums or the Farzad’s F1 Gallery. I just skipped the Spanish forums as they were full of the same. And yes, Autosport was probably similar, just from the other side, but at the time it seemed less polarized, different to what I had become used to and –let’s accept it- more in line with my own thoughts about the whole Alonso-McLaren situation.

ForoAlonso never recovered. I logged in again, several months later, and I found a private message from another old timer and mod, dated the day I left, asking me to forget about the incident and stay. I also found a further reply to my final post, where the webmaster not only did not apologize, but he said I had been creating trouble for a while and I was now just playing the victim –there I knew I had been correct in leaving and not coming back. I actually came back a few months later, and I posted twice or thrice, but by that point the forum was pretty much dead. The old people never came back, many of them leaving for the same reasons I did; and the new people left as soon as Alonso stopped winning. Some people turned from time to time, but there was no continuity, and the forum remained an uninhabited place for several years, until the spambots started to colonize every thread. Then, it went offline.

I never settled again in an F1 forum until I started to read this one. It was much different to ForoAlonso, but it shared many characteristics with it, and above all, it was a kind place to visit. And it has had a turn for the worse in recent times, indeed. It has caring owners –probably not as much as we would like to, but they have busy lives and they already do a tremendous job of keeping the site up, running and periodically updated-. It also has great mods, and whatever happens here, it could never be such a great loss to me as the demise of ForoAlonso was: I have matured, I have a decent social life now, I have a job, I have a lovely girlfriend and I have a home to take care of, instead of having my mother take care of everything.

But, to the extent that these forums could take the same road than those did, yes, I’m worried. And this is why I think that we need to get a hand on the discussions, before seasoned users get burned and it becomes too late to bring it back to the “business as usual” state. Which is the point that I’m trying to make with this awfully long post.

So, sorry if the post dragged for too long (it did), and I know that the circumstances are different, but I thought it would be worthwhile to share this experience.

[CoopsII]

So, sorry if the post dragged for too long (it did), and I know that the circumstances are different, but I thought it would be worthwhile to share this experience.

I generally dont read overly long posts as they often seem self-indulgent to me but I read yours and I enjoyed it.

[eytl]

I just want to thank everyone who cares enough to have shared their views on this.

Hopefully everyone can continue enjoying the site and the forum for some time yet, in the spirit in which both were created.

[DanielPT]

So, sorry if the post dragged for too long (it did), and I know that the circumstances are different, but I thought it would be worthwhile to share this experience.

It was worthwhile, Ferrim, since for the most part I went through the same stages in this forum... One difference is that I still come here because of the virtual championships I am involved with. Sure I insulted Red Bull through some of the worst word play ever seen in the face of the world and disgraced myself in the process, but I was already thinking of self-exile for some of the reasons you stated anyway, so no harm done here. Anyway, I will exceptionally brake my self imposed PSF exile only to give a word of hope that, somehow, this side of the forum doesn't fall further in the darkness it has been plunged for a while now. AndreaModa's thread about McLaren is a great example of it.

[Wallio]

I agree and support this post, but I also feel that some Vettel fans here have seemed to provoke others. Other than that I agree and hope the enture forum, no matter what side they are on, stop this idiocy now

I admit I am guilty of this from time to time, and will do better to stop. Hopefully, once the title is sewed up we can go back to more of our wheelhouse and shift focus to more rearward teams fight for WCC money. I think that will ease tension somewhat.

I do admire Mario's style of always trying to work towards a solution, rather than just banning. But some people are (this might sound weird, but you people will know what i mean) 'not ready for participating in this forum'. We can't give them eternally time to mature, but we will eventually welcome them back, because most of us would simply accept a simple 'sorry'.

What, in my opinion, the problem is with the current generation of forum-ers, is that they don't fully understand the specific humour style on this forum/website. This is partially because the older members joined the forum after following this site for years, and the younger members seemed to have discovered this website more recent. Because let's be honest, the first thought when you enter the website, is that it's laughing about failures. It's only when you read the content in detail, that you start to understand that this website is actually admiring these. It takes a lot of time in people's personal development to turn from 'lauging' towards 'sympathy' for the very same thing. (and many people will never reach that point at all)

The reason that this forums problems are still within acceptable levels, is because many of us prefer to be a guide towards younger people, and keep giving them a second chance. We even gave a certain member that caused a lot of trouble a second chance, not many forums would even think of doing that. I do not want to insult that certain person , but it does prove that most of us are open-minded.
Of course, in the old days, this community was small, and there were no need for any rules, but we will need these more and more. Nuppiz has done a lot of great work towards making reasonable forum rules, so please keep continuing this good work.
I believe in being constructive towards people, even towards the worst people. They might not appreciate this at this very moment, but at some point in their life, they will look back on the F1 rejects forum with a smile. Even if they got kicked out. The F1 rejects forum will give people back a little faith in humanity.

Now personally i don't mind that people hate Vettel or Di Resta, but i do mind that people can't accept each other's opinions and start pointless discussion about opinions. You simply can't discuss opinions. You can point your opinion, and you actually should point your opinion. But trying to change one's opinion is a waste of time. But please, try to be a little bit more 'friendly', we still have to live together for a very long time in this forum, so treat your enemies like you would treat your beloved ones!
I don't think anyone disagrees with me, and probably other people can say the same things in a better way, but i can't help it for trying to post my views on matters like these. I see this as an opportunity to gather experience with these situations, having started studies to become a teacher Forums are a very interesting way to see how people think, and it's very interesting to see how different forums handle things in different ways.

Now i will shut up because i really don't have anything to add, except, that i'm still happy and proud to be part of this forum!

I think this is what helped me. I found this site about 4-5 years and, and was addicted to the GP reviews and Team profiles. I lurked on the Forums for about 18 months before joining, and while I was no expert, I had a much better idea of the site going in.

[dr-baker]

The race discussions started to run for –literally- dozens of pages, but this jump in the number of posts was nothing compared with what happened in the “off-topic” section, where the topics multiplied and personal relationships started to develop. (This, by the way, is why I’ve asked several times for an off-topic forum to be created here, although I understand the reasons for not doing so).

And the reason for not doing so is the section I have underlinedlinked to the quotation in my signature.

[Whole Spanish Press]

Hi.


I'm not precisely your best student, perception I have, maybe, due to the fact I always don't get any feedback. If I ever get one.

My initial user was Popi Larrauri or something alike, which, by the way, I forgot among other things in my life due to a couple of personal tragedies that don't matter here.

I use to be a fan of this site, probably, since it was created. Hard to tell, but, at least, since 1997 if existed at the time. Took me a lot to post for the first time, since where I live, very few news in Formula 1 comes first here and then to Europe (and even fewer in lower categories).

Anyway, around 2005, I guess, started to join this community. I know it would be exaggerated to claim it this way, but I felt it as a personal secret group of best friends. That despite I was not as wise in F1 lore, or despite the fact that I have particular ways to perceive world, and knew no one outside of internet.

This very user was created to accomplish a prank on a user and, despite the perception that I have (that is, that it had failed on such task) it remained as a chance to post something harsh on no one in particular from time to time. but the chance of doing it was there. I hardly believe that have had offended someone.

Then I've left. Mostly because of personal reasons, but also due to the fact that the weather was changing inside the forums. Something about moderators, maybe, but I can get the notion that moderating is a rather ungrateful job, so I leave every moderator I know to do his job. Seriously, nothing with it.

But as the days went on, I felt that I was posting to never have a reply. the consecuence was equal as posting for myself in Evernote, or doing it in chinese. So, problem was me, maybe. But, on the other side, the humour (or the perception of it) here changed. For natural reasons, maybe, as Ferrim ponts out, human groups have dynamics (and Internet forum, among them, have an even more specific one). I continued reading it, but with a narrower interest reduced to a few treads. After all, I didn't have time for much more.

As the same time I feel I do not own any about the early days when I was part of this community (please, rest assured of that), I would try to advise newer guys that, the whole Idea is not to ban fights about pro-Vettels and anti-Di-Restas in order to work out.

It was about to celebrate the none winners among the winners, being clear that, us, given the same chances, would have fared worse or equal at best, even in our own fields of life, and, more important, that wasn't a big deal per se, as long as you were smart enought to a) cope with it, b) understand that you are not the only snow flake out there and c) be well intentioned.

(Anyone else can, everywhere, be available all the time to talk about Schumacher (I'm following F1 news in some nostalgia forums in Facebook. 70% of the photos and articles are about Senna. Period).

It surpassed F1 at the time, it could have been about chess, politics, or quantum mechanics, it would have worked anyway.

I have the feeling that, sending this message to new applicants, given them the notion that, originally, F1 is rather complementary in our lives in this forum as in any other particular slice of our life, will rather give them a better understanding about what people love to do here.

Good luck, then.

[Yannick]

Thank you Ataxia for your original posting. I agree completely that users must remain reverent and respectful in what they want to say on internet forums at all times, especially when discussing real people like those profiled on this website which was originally created to free them of the "loser" tag which they themselves probably already had gotten enough of during their days as backmarkers in F1. This website is about the olympic spirit, only for the non-olympic sport of F1: it's about as good for a participant to just start a race as it is to win one.

And thanks to the Whole Spanish Press for showing up again. The days of your original prank were fun times.

[SgtPepper]

I agree and support this post, but I also feel that some Vettel fans here have seemed to provoke others. Other than that I agree and hope the enture forum, no matter what side they are on, stop this idiocy now

I admit I am guilty of this from time to time, and will do better to stop. Hopefully, once the title is sewed up we can go back to more of our wheelhouse and shift focus to more rearward teams fight for WCC money. I think that will ease tension somewhat.

I'll also take responsibility for not having exactly helped matters at times, and I'll make sure from hereon in I keep my temper more controlled (I was so angry on Sunday at the 3-stop I actually gave myself a headache, which in hindsight is completely mental, particularly considering I'm normally a very calm person). I hate the idea of contributing towards a deterioration of a forum I absolutely love, and have actually been lurking since mid-2012, but felt too unworthy to post in until the idiocy at F1Fanatic pushed me over the edge.

I'm not sure who posted it as I haven't been able to find it again, but I was drawn to this forum by an absolutely incredible debate about Damon Hill's performances - the depth and breadth of knowledge and research, and the lack of any tension, just pure trading of information and perspectives was what originally enticed me here.

[Nessafox]

Still, i believe in giving the good example to the new guys, rather than just complaining and giving up on them. And i think every one of the older guys should do that.
If everybody would always give up, then you are only asking for things to go wrong. It would be arrogant to call myself an inspiration, but i know some people on here are indeed an inspiration. They are an inspiration to me, and are to others. Also, not everybody has to be an inspiration, as in my opinion, it means more to be inspired than to be inspiring.
This might sound overly optimistic to many of you. But in fact, i'm one of the most pessimistic persons in the world, but i prefer to keep my pessimism to myself.
One thing about society today is that people complain way too fast. Also the wise people make the same mistakes. That is understandable, but please don't lower yourself to their standards.
Some people are impossible and hopeless, but don't let these people decide your life. There's lot of people that i would not get along with in real life, but there are also lot of people that i can think would become good friends eventually. Well, these 'friends' are worth more to me than those others. I feel lot of respect for some people that have always given me a chance. But i don't have any hard feelings towards people that didn't give me a chance. In no possible way i consider 'not giving me a chance' as a reason to not give someone a chance.

I think many of you older guys are giving up too fast on the young generation. Giving up is not the reject spirit. That's not what people like Roberto Moreno or Enzo Osella would do! Are we going to complain that our forum has suffered the same problems that other forums have, or are we going to be one of the first forums that actually grows over it and shows people a positive message? It's really in our own hands.
I might sound like a bathplugging priest. But am i right or am i right?
I'm not actively seeking for a job as moderator (i'm not quite handy with internet), but if i were ever asked to do such thing, i would not do it against my will. Being one of the older guys (i'm only 26, but still) comes with ever growing responsibility, and i'm not hiding anymore from responsibility.
Yes, some of you might grow tired of me always trying to preach, but understand that nobody is forced to listen to what i say. I never tried to be a leading figure in here, but at moments like this, i really feel i have to speak out my opinion.

And in a way, i'm slightly dissapointed by people that gave up. That some people aren't open to change. It's easy to say 'it's the same thing at every single place'. Well, with that mentality, everything is indeed going to keep being the same. I do not wish to participate in that mentality. I wish everybody that considers or ever considered leaving the best. It's your loss, really.

[go_Rubens]

I'm glad someone got this discussion started. I feel it was very much needed and it is very much appreciated.

[CoopsII]

Whatever happened to thehemogoblin?

[Nuppiz]

Whatever happened to thehemogoblin?

Life happened. He's currently too busy with his journalistic work to spend time here, and thus we're currently missing an active moderator from the American timezone.

[CoopsII]

Whatever happened to thehemogoblin?

Life happened. He's currently too busy with his journalistic work to spend time here, and thus we're currently missing an active moderator from the American timezone.

Shame. I always imagined him tutting with disdain whenever I spelled words like colour or centre

[Chives5150]

I can tell that This has what it takes to be a teacher.

[watka]

Popi_Laurrari, good to see you post and nice to hear from one of the "old boys". I hope everything is OK with you as I remember when you left it was because of some horrible personal news.

Needless to say, I thank everyone for their endeavours to make this forum a good place to come. I agree with This that perhaps as one of the longer standing members here I should encourage the younger members to make better posts and think before they type. Tbh, my current policy if I see a post I don't like is just to ignore it; I'm not one for giving a lecture on right or wrong - perhaps I should mention things occasionally but I feel that the mods and guys like Ataxia generally do a good job of reprimanding.

In terms of my posts, I'm probably most guilty of going off-topic or just making jokes all the time! However, I like that side of the forum and for me, whilst there is some brilliant and balanced discussion in places across the forum, one of my favourite threads has to be the ChiltonCraze thread. I think it really does encapsulate the reject spirit best. We know Chilton isn't the fastest driver, we know he's largely "there because of his money"™, we know he's in the worst car on the grid and he's unlikely to get anywhere near the points, but beyond all of the light jesting in that thread I have no doubt that we would all be absolutely delighted if he somehow, SOMEHOW managed to get a point. There is genuine underlying support and respect for Max coupled with a realisation of the lack of his and the car's abilities. That's what F1 Rejects is about.

[Whole Spanish Press]

And thanks to the Whole Spanish Press for showing up again. The days of your original prank were fun times.

Sorry for the delay, Yannick. Had been on some errands and I pleased to know the old spirits are stille here. Thanks for the nostalgy factor, too.

Popi_Laurrari, good to see you post and nice to hear from one of the "old boys". I hope everything is OK with you as I remember when you left it was because of some horrible personal news.

Thanks you too!

Yes. Two of them! Actually

The first a very preterm daughter (25 weeks and 2 days of gestation, 551 grams at the moment of birth, which later became 500, three surgeries, four month in incubator and a year in domiciliary internship with oxygen aid 24 hours a day at first) that, after three years, is a marveolus, healthy, beautiful and a terrible enfant all in one, for whome, expectedly, I had fall in love. Things have calmed a lot right know, but last two years we went from medic to medic. Also, almost costed my wife's life then, due to a preclampsia syndrom going ballistic in two hours.

The second, was an already planned by then surgery on my eyes (to cure a big shortsight). In the middle of the left eye surgery something went really wrong (to the point that and assistant almost fainted watching everything going in distress) and left me with a dead iris (BONUS: I was aware all the time during the surgery to hear the whole thing, I fared it really fine then, despite I can't explain how right now). I had a terrible photophobia that almost left as a vampire for almost a year, which followed a cataract that left one-eyed four more months untill a third surgery brought back to life the eye. I'm fine right now. still some minor photophobia, but almost irrelevant. That was the other reason for going from medic to medic for three years in a row.

So, right now, we are fine, really fine. When it comes back to F1, I follow the races, most of them, and I have some grasp on what's happening, but I don't have a clue about 2014 regulations aside from turbos, silly season is basically to me what I read here, and local media, which largely points what is already obvious everywhere else by the time they show it.


Going on topic:

I kept thinking about why forums tend to decay to trolling and exasperation. Thing is, I guess, as communities go bigger, chances of you getting some protagonism goes slimmer. So, the unique way to stop losing ground on the feedback you expect from a forum (if you were not intereseted on some feedback, answer, development of what you said or discussion, you would do it for yourself; Facebook at most) it's capturing atention over it. Your post must be over the average in order to fall in the spam of attention of people. And, considering that everything said that it's no answered falls fast on the counter, forum users tend to raise the bar of the "click baiting" (the term exist for e-marketing). You can choose from bringing the inside information, rumours, breaking news, the very unique old data, being funny (as funny as you can), or, depleted those resources, being provocative.

You can be provocative in a proactive way, though. Thing is, it's very easy be malinterpreted, other people are having the same angst as you (that is, the need to be read, or be recognised in a community, after all), and it's very easy to do it wrong yourself. Reading communicaton is weak in general, and emoticons hardly replace the context in which we place our words.

And yes, you can be, far easier, provocative the bad way.

This is a forum of a site interesting and distinctive (well, to me, but as far as I've read, you have the same perspective) not for the subject itself (Formula 1) but for it's own insight. That insight precise, more than the average, softer words, a more calculated spech, and a careful use of tone. Aside from that, everybody wants to have a laugh in a while, and you must, even more, be correctful as you can. All of this easily goes in contrast with being provocative, even in the politest ways.

In fact, if you ask me, the only thing I would change to the site (mind it is just an opinion) is the lack of reassurance to the NEW reader that it is more about an elegy rather than mocking or going bizarre. Maybe it's about colours, fonts, wording; don't know exactly.

Moderating it must be frustrating as hell, but I guess the problem is a variation of this one, and I would bet for a solution on this direction.

PS: Still not a tragedy, to be fair. It's still far a better forum than any other thing out there about F1.

[Nessafox]

I can tell that This has what it takes to be a teacher.

Thank you very much! I don't know you very well, but even the words of a 'stranger' mean a lot to me! (just like negative critics are also considered as helpful) But i'm only as good as my knowledge on the subjects is (which are geography and history). My downside is that i have a habit of a bad preparation and just improvising a lot (not exacltly a bad thing at history, though ). Something that is obviously a lot easier on a forum when there's plenty of time to think, than directly in front of someone.
Some people i haven't talked to in years tell me i've changed a lot. I tell them i didn't, i just got more complete. The same will happen with this forum, it hasn't really changed, it's just in the process of completing itself. 'Being in process' is always the most difficult part, as you don't see the results, yet. I should really become a priest

And no, i'm not desperately hoping for reaction, if some of you might think that. I just find these things very interesting to discuss. But in my opinion, the older and younger generation just need to learn how to, forgive me for using this word, co-exist! It's really not that difficult. You can never expect the younger generation to sort everything out by themselves. And if you expect them to do, then don't complain that they do things different. Sure, many young people will ignore a lot of your advice, but later, they will tell exactly the same things towards younger people that were told to them when they were young. So make sure the things you tell them right now are good things

And by the way, welcome back Whole Spanish Press/Popi_Laurrari!

[tristan1117]

I dunno, I suppose I am one of the most senior members of this forum, even though I am still on the younger side, so I'll throw my two cents in.

My participation in the Paul Stoddart Memorial Forum has fallen to near "lurker" status, but this recent trend probably has more to do with a general dissatisfaction with things in general, rather than anything to do with the forum. The PMMC has basically become my home now. I've been scrolling back through my most recent posts, and I have found that 90% of my posts are now in the PMMC. Some of my results in the PMMC have become equally important to me as real-life race results, which is both bizarre and somewhat interesting.

I am beginning to fear that my love of Formula 1 and motorsport in general, something I've had since I was about five, is slowly dwindling away. I've actually started missing races regularly as the season winds down, which was startling at first, but has gradually become almost a natural occurrence. And I don't even think Formula 1 is boring nowadays! It's just that the priorities of my life have been shifting in the last 4+ years, and Formula 1 on its own has become less and less important. Now the important part of Formula 1 is the people, i.e. this forum, and everyone in it, that I've had the privilege to interact with in the last few years. I could really care less who wins the races, or who wins the title, but I care a great deal about the things I'm doing with my friends, something that has become a trend in all facets of my life. I don't watch American football because I care who wins anymore; I watch because I am part of fantasy football leagues with my friends, and this interaction with other people is what keeps me watching.

So... what does that all mean? Um, I'm not totally sure. I have my theories on why I don't put as much emphasis on real-life F1, but that is irrelevant to the topic at hand. I really like this forum. I really like the people on this forum. I do not have a single person I know in person who will talk to me with any of the passion and intelligence that many of you have. So this is all I've got, I suppose. In my opinion, Formula 1 should not be allowed to destroy a community about Formula 1, no matter how paradoxical that seems. Do I have a pet theory about why the forums aren't what they used to be? No. I am now mostly concerned with keeping the community alive and healthy, because that's what really matters. Listen to the sound advice posted here about toning down the mindless, provocatory posts. I know we can straighten this all out.

[DemocalypseNow]

There is a natural cycle to all of this. When many of us joined this forum initially, we had no responsibilities to speak of. We were still kids in effect, even if we were far closer to 20 rather than 10.

But now, we have had to take on the typical responsibilities of an adult, and that ebbs away at our free time. That makes what free time we have left more valuable, as with any commodity in short supply. It's basic economics. While I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this forum in terms of it "not being worth my while" as it may appear I'm suggesting, we realise that spending the same amount of time here that we used to does not feel like the best use of our time, as it would mean doing nothing else anymore. Maybe I was just a slacker, but during my school years I felt like I had too much free time. Even in the last month, my free time has significantly dwindled. I was really active on PMMF until recently, and even that is now disappearing. So, when we are more focused on the quality of our free time, we are less tolerant of the bad stuff that was always there next to the good stuff. It's all in the perception, and the fact that when there are positive memories of something, they can override the bad memories that also happened there.

Perceptions have changed; the reality remains the same.

[girry]

What I always admired about this very forum was the almost complete lack of moderation here....because, barring spambots, none was ever required - the community just seemed to suck people into the right mood and right kind of usage. That's something very very unique on the internet. Now with the slightly bigger influx of newer members, who may not grasp all the spirit (or the erm, code of conduct) of this forum, it may seem like it's required to have some moderation here too....personally I'd like to disagree and continue as this community always has; without any moderation, that is. I believe, even in this current state it will get better once the frustration of this season is out of the way and the new season starts, and the newer users will get used to the guidelines.

Well, perhaps a slightly bigger intolerance to posts that contain nothing but frustrated hate, would help. But other

This thread has been an interesting read, keep it up.

[RonDenisDeletraz]

In my opinion the latest edition to Cynon's sig is unnecessarily inflammatory and an example of what I complained about earlier. Just my two cents.

[CoopsII]

In my opinion the latest edition to Cynon's sig is unnecessarily inflammatory and an example of what I complained about earlier. Just my two cents.

Thats a joke, right? The current one that states he's an unashamed Vettel fan with a poke at Webber?