Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

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Jocke1
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Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Jocke1 »

I was going through my stack of old magazines and found this gem.
I apologise for the poor quality, but it might be interesting anyway:


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WaffleCat
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by WaffleCat »

This reminds me,I should probably look for that Christijan Albers and Robert Doornbos article they did back in late 2005. Potential for reject gold right there.

Still,nice find Jocke.
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by go_Rubens »

Man, not often when people ask who's the slowest driver :lol: Except if they are rejects!

Fantastic find, Jocke!
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Alextrax52 »

I forgot that f1 racing magazines were so primitive back then but some of the man of the year awards were great to read. Neither were really that slow (one read of Tarso's reject profile will tell you that) while mazzacane did all that was expected of him really. And hey unlike Alex Yoong at least he didn't qualify last all the time
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Sunshine_Baby_[IT] »

Great article.
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Meatwad »

Marques wasn't a bad driver, he beat Alonso in 2001. The only other drivers that have managed to beat him are Trulli and Hamilton. :)
Yes, I know Alonso was actually far better and only lost because of his technical problems.
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Jocke1 »

Marques only beat Alonso in one of four categories. And it wasn't really by much.

Best finish:
Marques 9th (+3 laps)
Alonso 10th (+1 lap)

The other three categories belonged to Alonso.

Races H2H:
Alonso 6-4

Qualifying H2H:
Alonso 12-2

Fastest lap H2H:
Alonso 9-4
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girry
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by girry »

this reminds me of an old Alonso comment that Marques, whom he also called a 'very good driver', taught him how to deal with the F1 starts...
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by takagi_for_the_win »

Bear in mind that when Marques finished 9th, he was last classified runner, whereas Alonso managed to drag the Minardi to 10th out of 17 classified runners at Suzuka, all of which I believe were running at the end. Thats some achievement in my eyes
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Alextrax52 »

takagi_for_the_win wrote:Bear in mind that when Marques finished 9th, he was last classified runner, whereas Alonso managed to drag the Minardi to 10th out of 17 classified runners at Suzuka, all of which I believe were running at the end. Thats some achievement in my eyes


Not quite he came home 11th out of 16 finishers at Suzuka. He came home 10th and last at Germany though.
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by takagi_for_the_win »

Kimi-ICE wrote:
takagi_for_the_win wrote:Bear in mind that when Marques finished 9th, he was last classified runner, whereas Alonso managed to drag the Minardi to 10th out of 17 classified runners at Suzuka, all of which I believe were running at the end. Thats some achievement in my eyes


Not quite he came home 11th out of 16 finishers at Suzuka. He came home 10th and last at Germany though.


Ah my mistake :oops: Still no mean feat though
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Alextrax52 »

To be fair that year's Minardi was actually a good car because it regularly challenged the hopeless Benettons and on occasion could mix it with the Arrows and Prost cars. Alonso really impressed everyone and if Raikkonen didn't get on the scene we would have walked off with the Rookie of the Year award
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by AdrianSutil »

Kimi-ICE wrote:To be fair that year's Minardi was actually a good car because it regularly challenged the hopeless Benettons and on occasion could mix it with the Arrows and Prost cars. Alonso really impressed everyone and if Raikkonen didn't get on the scene we would have walked off with the Rookie of the Year award

Montoya rang.
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Londoner »

Marques finished 9th twice in 2001, firstly at Interlagos. He was the penultimate classified runner, as Button was some seven laps down for some reason I can't explain, the Benetton was bad, but clearly not that bad.

He also finished 9th at Montreal, because Verstappen and Trulli's brakes caused them to retire a few laps before the end.
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Jocke1 »

AdrianSutil wrote:Montoya rang...
...he wants his tennis injury back.
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by go_Rubens »

Jocke1 wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Montoya rang...
...he wants his tennis injury back.


Rookie of the Year in 2001 has to be Montoya, even if he was in a good chassis compared to others.
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Backmarker »

go_Rubens wrote:
Jocke1 wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Montoya rang...
...he wants his tennis injury back.


Rookie of the Year in 2001 has to be Montoya, even if he was in a good chassis compared to others.


If we look at it as a percentage of their team's total points, Kimi Räikkönen performed better than Juan Pablo Montoya, scoring 42.86% of Sauber's points, compared to Montoya 38.75% of Williams'. Of course, this is a fairly bland comparison; Montoya had 7 retirements due to mechanical failure, including two from pole - unless you take the view that the reason Montoya's car broke so much because of the way he drove it, these were not his fault, and prevented him from scoring points in these races. Compare this to Kimi Räikkönen who only suffered 5 mechanical failures (most often his driveshaft), and it seems less likely that he would have scored points in races he retired from, than it is for Montoya to have scored points in races he retired from. Personally I still think Kimi was more impressive, having been younger and less experienced than Montoya, who had been able to put in more testing than the Finn.
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Jocke1 »

Backmarker wrote: Montoya had 7 retirements due to mechanical failure.

and a certain Dutchman f'ing it up for him in Brazil.
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Backmarker »

Jocke1 wrote:
Backmarker wrote: Montoya had 7 retirements due to mechanical failure.

and a certain Dutchman f'ing it up for him in Brazil.


Yeah, although there were accidents where Montoya was not to blame, I left them out just to make it easier.
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Jocke1 »

Setting aside Alonso and his impressive multiple 18th place qualifying performances, here
are Raikkonen's and Montoya's "best-case scenarios" of 2001. How they would have finished (if mechanical woes hadn't occured):


JPM
Melbourne - 5th place (Engine DNF)
Sepang - accident
Interlagos - Winner, (rear-ended by JV)
Imola - 5th place (Clutch DNF)
Catalunya - finished 2nd
A1 Ring - 5th place (Hydraulics DNF)
Monaco - accident from 5th place
Montreal - accident from 10th place
Nurburgring - finished 2nd
Magny Cours - at least 4th place (Engine DNF)
Silverstone - finished 4th
Hockenheim - Winner (Engine DNF)
Hungaroring - finished 8th
Spa - 1st-3rd (Engine DNF)
Monza - Winner
Indianapolis - 1st-3rd (Hydraulics DNF)
Suzuka - finished 2nd


Kimi
Melbourne - finished 6th
Sepang - 10th place (Transmission DNF)
Interlagos - spun from 9th place
Imola - 6th place (Steering DNF)
Catalunya - finshed 8th
A1 Ring - finished 4th
Monaco - finished 10th
Montreal - finished 4th
Nurburgring - finished 10th
Magny Cours - finished 7th
Silverstone - finished 5th
Hockenheim - 3rd-4th (Transmission DNF)
Hungaroring - finished 7th
Spa - 7th place (Transmission DNF)
Monza - finished 7th
Indianapolis - 5th place (Transmission DNF)
Suzuka - collided from 9th place


Overall I'd have to say that JPM had the more impressive season, but that's not to say that Kimi wasn't good, too.
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Salamander »

Montoya had 2 years in CART under his belt when CART was still in its heyday, with a title and an Indy 500 to his name when he made his debut. Raikkonen had, what, 23 car races in total? They were both new to F1, but I don't think you can compare the two that broadly.
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Ferrim »

Kimi-ICE wrote:To be fair that year's Minardi was actually a good car because it regularly challenged the hopeless Benettons and on occasion could mix it with the Arrows and Prost cars. Alonso really impressed everyone and if Raikkonen didn't get on the scene we would have walked off with the Rookie of the Year award


Not quite. Here you have the typical case of a driver making the car look better than it was, coupled with several teams dropping the ball during the off-season, namely Benetton and Arrows. The 2001 Minardi was a car that got no pre-season testing and whose development was clearly slowed down by all the problems the team went through that winter, when there wasn't any money and it looked like they would have to close down.

It was Alonso's Minardi the one that challenged other people, because Marques was pretty much hopeless (and we know Marques was relatively decent in 1996-97). The 2000 Minardi was a better package, and I would have loved to see Alonso driving that car, given that an average driver like Gené was able to race it in the middle of the pack during several races that year, finishing just 13 seconds away from 4th place in Austria, on merit (no rain, no safety cars apart from the one at the beginning).
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Alextrax52 »

Ferrim wrote:
Kimi-ICE wrote:To be fair that year's Minardi was actually a good car because it regularly challenged the hopeless Benettons and on occasion could mix it with the Arrows and Prost cars. Alonso really impressed everyone and if Raikkonen didn't get on the scene we would have walked off with the Rookie of the Year award


Not quite. Here you have the typical case of a driver making the car look better than it was, coupled with several teams dropping the ball during the off-season, namely Benetton and Arrows. The 2001 Minardi was a car that got no pre-season testing and whose development was clearly slowed down by all the problems the team went through that winter, when there wasn't any money and it looked like they would have to close down.

It was Alonso's Minardi the one that challenged other people, because Marques was pretty much hopeless (and we know Marques was relatively decent in 1996-97). The 2000 Minardi was a better package, and I would have loved to see Alonso driving that car, given that an average driver like Gené was able to race it in the middle of the pack during several races that year, finishing just 13 seconds away from 4th place in Austria, on merit (no rain, no safety cars apart from the one at the beginning).


And don't forget Gene stuck the car 18th on the grid in Australia and Mazzacane wasn't last on the grid all the time. Who knows where Alonso would have qualified the car
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by David AGS »

The Minardi M02 (2000) was one of he best Minardi cars ever built. What it lacked was a powerful engine, (had a slightly modified 1998 spec. Ford V-10 that the Stewart used. But im sure this has been discussed before on another thread.

I remember in the 'Forza Minardi' book, that Brunner was so so impressed with the laptime Alonso did in qualifying in San Marino.

He pretty much said that that lap to qualify in 18th place (ahead of the two Benetton cars, maybe an Arrows or a Prost IIRC) could not happen. He knew the technical details obviously and put it down to the driver and his talent
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Faustus »

Great find Jocke1! Thanks for sharing!
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Jocke1 »

Faustus wrote:Great find Jocke1! Thanks for sharing!

thanks :)
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by badoerfan »

Thanks for posting this! I distinctly remember reading it at the time.

For my tuppence worth, I never thought Marques was that bad. He clearly got the raw end of the deal in 2001 - that was an absolute dog of a car, with no pre-season testing and little development. It was also pretty clear that Alonso was getting the few developments there were first too. Marques looked pretty average next to Alonso, but so would anyone.
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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by David AGS »

Salamander wrote:Montoya had 2 years in CART under his belt when CART was still in its heyday, with a title and an Indy 500 to his name when he made his debut. Raikkonen had, what, 23 car races in total? They were both new to F1, but I don't think you can compare the two that broadly.


Also JPM obviously was in F3000, so he had experience on many F1 circuits, and was also clocking a lot of miles testing for Williams
Miserable Thierry (Boutsen) staggers round mostly on ten cylinders (out of 12) with no clutch, low oil pressure, bad brakes and no grip to finish tenth, 3 laps down...

(Murray Walkers review of Boutsen's Brazil 1991 race).

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Re: Mazzacane and Marques article from F1 Racing

Post by Alextrax52 »

go_Rubens wrote:
Jocke1 wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Montoya rang...
...he wants his tennis injury back.


Rookie of the Year in 2001 has to be Montoya, even if he was in a good chassis compared to others.


Montoya crashed into anything that moved at times such as Monaco and Canada where he won ROTR for being spanked by Ralf. Plus that off race in Hungary where he just couldn't get things right hurt him too
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