Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

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Zenarcher
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

2006

Mark Webber rewrites the records book and now matches the all-time record held by Ayrton Senna with 4 championships! Fernando Alonso lost out by just 0.5%! As an Alonso fan, I'm kinda used to seeing him narrowly lose out on a championship, but it still hurts to see it even happen here :o . I went back to recount the laps all over again just to double-check because it was so close and can confirm it's real, Mark Webber is your 2006 champion.

Top 3

1. Webber
2. Alonso
3. M Schumacher


Image

Percentage of laps led over teammate,
Image

In-text form including the number of laps,

1. Webber 366 = 84.5%
2. Alonso 873 = 84.0%
3. M Schumacher 863 = 82.5%
4. Button 626 = 76.6%
5. Räikkönen 261 = 73.1%
6. Trulli 536 = 69.4%
7. Albers 420 = 64.1%
8. Heidfeld 377 = 63.6%
9. Speed 428 = 55.8%
10. Klien 337 = 55.2%
11. Coulthard 273 = 44.7%
12. Liuzzi 338 = 44.1%
13. Villeneuve 215 = 36.3%
14. Monteiro 235 = 35.8%
15. R Schumacher 236 = 30.5%
16. Montoya 96 = 26.8%
17. Barrichello 191 = 23.3%
18. Massa 183 = 17.4%
19. Fisichella 166 = 15.9%
20. Rosberg 67 = 15.4%

James1978 wrote:I think Webber might get one more chance to make it 4 (2008 with Coulthard in wind-down to retirement mode). Certainly he won't win any more once Vettel joins him at red Bull!


Do you think Webber might now have a chance to make it 5 in 2007 against Coulthard? After not doing too well against Klien. Could be possible.

Alexandra wrote:I had totally forgotten that Button was so much stronger than Sato in that year. :o

I was so sure Coulthard had the championship in the bag, seeing that he was pitted against Klien, who already was no match for Webber and therefore should have been even weaker against a former race winner with nothing to loose.


Same, I thought it would have been at least closer between Button and Coulthard at the top, however Button won it easily.

Rob Dylan wrote:Loving the Monteiro-Karthikeyan rivalry!

I'm not sure either Vettel or Webber will win a championship, same with Hamilton, between 2007-2013, just because of the intra-team competition. If Alonso dominates Massa he might win one or two.

Kubica must surely dominate 2010 I think?


Yeah, I think Vettel will bring an end to Webber's dominance! I wonder if Hamilton will ever win a championship? I think Alonso has a good chance against Massa at least once during their time together.
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Rob Dylan »

I haven't looked back through the records but 85% is one of the lower percentages for a season winner if I'm not mistaken?

I also find it very interesting that Ferrari and Renault led the constructors that year, ostensibly each with the two best drivers they could find on the grid. But it's interesting that, even so, Schumacher and Alonso destroyed their teammates to the point that those teammates were some of the worst performing drivers to the lead driver. I don't know why, but I assumed that at the front it would be the opposite, but one driver dominating another doesn't seem to have any effect on damaging a driver's chances at winning the championship. :?:
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Alexandra »

Am I missing something? Yes, yes, in fact, I am! Where's Super Aguri? :o
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Rob Dylan »

Alexandra wrote:Am I missing something? Yes, yes, in fact, I am! Where's Super Aguri? :o

Is there a fix against Sato? Surely Sato led 100% of the laps in front of Ide, surely!?
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
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Zenarcher
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

Rob Dylan wrote:I haven't looked back through the records but 85% is one of the lower percentages for a season winner if I'm not mistaken?

I also find it very interesting that Ferrari and Renault led the constructors that year, ostensibly each with the two best drivers they could find on the grid. But it's interesting that, even so, Schumacher and Alonso destroyed their teammates to the point that those teammates were some of the worst performing drivers to the lead driver. I don't know why, but I assumed that at the front it would be the opposite, but one driver dominating another doesn't seem to have any effect on damaging a driver's chances at winning the championship. :?:


Your right it is one of the lowest % we've had so far, I have looked back at the lowest and 1961 had 81%,

1961 - 81%
1985 - 84%
2001 - 84%
2004 - 84%
1960 - 86%
1979 - 87%
1991 - 87%
1982 - 88%

From what I see going through all the data is it varies a lot, sometimes you have a driver who qualifies further back and their teammate is ahead for most of the race until the closing stages before they are overtaken, so it might appear that one driver was better than the other but the faster driver was just catching up. Other times the stronger driver leads ahead but only just by 1 or 2 positions, so it may seem one driver is dominating their teammate but actually they aren't too far behind them.

Alexandra wrote:Am I missing something? Yes, yes, in fact, I am! Where's Super Aguri? :o


Drivers must complete 50% of the season to qualify for this championship and since all of Sato's teammates Ide, Montagny and Yamamoto completed less than half they were excluded.

Rob Dylan wrote:
Alexandra wrote:Am I missing something? Yes, yes, in fact, I am! Where's Super Aguri? :o


Is there a fix against Sato? Surely Sato led 100% of the laps in front of Ide, surely!?


He sure did!

Sato 145 vs Ide 0
Sato 131 vs Montagny 13
Sato 169 vs Yamamoto 44

:) Nope, not a fix just sticking to the rules I've stuck with since starting this. If it was a fix I would have knocked a few laps off Webber to give Alonso the win :D
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Alexandra »

Zenarcher wrote:
Alexandra wrote:Am I missing something? Yes, yes, in fact, I am! Where's Super Aguri? :o


Drivers must complete 50% of the season to qualify for this championship and since all of Sato's teammates Ide, Montagny and Yamamoto completed less than half they were excluded.

Rob Dylan wrote:
Alexandra wrote:Am I missing something? Yes, yes, in fact, I am! Where's Super Aguri? :o


Is there a fix against Sato? Surely Sato led 100% of the laps in front of Ide, surely!?


He sure did!

Sato 145 vs Ide 0
Sato 131 vs Montagny 13
Sato 169 vs Yamamoto 44

:) Nope, not a fix just sticking to the rules I've stuck with since starting this.

I already knew you were going to refer to that, and I accept it. Rules are rules. But damn, am I disappointed! The only occasion Super Aguri (and for that matter Sato) could have ever trumped an alternative championship with ease, and then they get robbed of the title by mere percents! Both Montagny AND Yamamoto were only 2 measely races shy of their 50%! Well, if that's not rejectful, I don't know what is... :)
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by James1978 »

God, I was really wrong to think Webber only had a chance in 2008 as I thought Rosberg was much better than that even in his debut season.
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

Alexandra wrote:I already knew you were going to refer to that, and I accept it. Rules are rules. But damn, am I disappointed! The only occasion Super Aguri (and for that matter Sato) could have ever trumped an alternative championship with ease, and then they get robbed of the title by mere percents! Both Montagny AND Yamamoto were only 2 measely races shy of their 50%! Well, if that's not rejectful, I don't know what is... :)


If it makes it any better even if I included just Montagny and Yamamoto against Sato he wouldn't have won it any way he would have scored 84.0% still 0.5% off Webber.

The rule exists because you would get drivers appearing for a one-off race or two, leading 5 laps ahead, getting 100% and winning it overall and it seemed unfair for those who had something like over 90% over the entire season, so I made the rule you must complete at least half of the season to try and make it fairer.

James1978 wrote:God, I was really wrong to think Webber only had a chance in 2008 as I thought Rosberg was much better than that even in his debut season.


Yeah, it shocked me too I thought Rosberg would have done a better job. I guess it's Webber's way of showing why he's now a 4-time champ.
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Alexandra »

Zenarcher wrote:If it makes it any better even if I included just Montagny and Yamamoto against Sato he wouldn't have won it any way he would have scored 84.0% still 0.5% off Webber.

The rule exists because you would get drivers appearing for a one-off race or two, leading 5 laps ahead, getting 100% and winning it overall and it seemed unfair for those who had something like over 90% over the entire season, so I made the rule you must complete at least half of the season to try and make it fairer.

0,5% off? Still, would have been one of the closest finishes since you've started this championship. :)

I totally understand why that 50% rule exists, and I'm completely fine with it, don't worry. My post wasn't meant as a lamentation, even if it might've sounded like that. Keep up the good work, I enjoy this championship just the way it is. Though, I'll need to take the 50% rule more into consideration for my next prediction...

Which is going to be hard, as I just found out. 2007 - 2010 are going to be quite difficult (for me) to predict at all. Well, here goes nothing:

2007 - Sutil (at least vs. Albers, as both Winkelhock and Yamamoto won't qualify) (other candidates: Rosberg, Fisichella)
2008 - Alonso (other candidates: Rosberg, Hamilton)
2009 - Rosberg (other candidates: Hamilton, Alonso)
2010 - Barrichello (other candidates: Sutil, Kobayashi, maybe even Glock)

Why so many "other candidates"? Because I find it VERY hard to decide this time around. Could be any of them, could be someone completely different. I really can't say. But I'll definitely look forward to the official results, as they might surprise me.
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Rob Dylan »

I agree with most of Alexandra's guesses, but surely 2010 must be Kubica over Petrov. That must have been the most one-sided team battle of that year. If it wasn't I'd be very surprised.
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

2007

Mark Webber breaks the all-time record and wins his 5th championship! 2007 also broke another record by becoming the closest championship yet beating 1961 which was won with 81.57%, Webber won this year with 78.7%.

Top 3

1. Webber
2. Speed
3. Rosberg


Image

Webber celebrates his record-breaking victory,
Image

Percentage of laps led over teammate,
Image

In-text form including the number of laps,

1. Webber 425 = 78.7%
2. Speed 153 = 76.5%
3. Rosberg 591 = 76.0%
4. Sutil 230 = 73.2%
5. Heidfeld 547 = 58.5%
6. Sato 435 = 58.0%
7. Kovalainen 531 = 57.4%
8. Vettel 131 = 56.9%
9. Hamilton 552 = 55.4%
10. Trulli 394 = 54.4%
11. Massa 485 = 52.7%
12. Button 376 = 52.7%
13. Räikkönen 434 = 47.2%
14. Barrichello 337 = 47.2%
15. R Schumacher 330 = 45.5%
16. Alonso 443 = 44.5%
17. Kubica 384 = 43.6%
18. Liuzzi 213 = 43.1%
19. Fisichella 394 = 42.5%
20. Davidson 314 = 41.9%
21. Albers 84 = 26.7%
22. Wurz 186 = 23.9%
23. Coulthard 115 = 21.2%

Also a little extra today with a more in-depth look at Hamilton vs Alonso on how it looked across the whole season. I did something similar for Senna vs Prost in 1989.

Image

Alonso had a very early lead that didn't last too long before Hamilton for the rest of the season was ahead but towards the end, Alonso made a slight comeback but Hamilton still had the overall lead.

Alexandra wrote:I totally understand why that 50% rule exists, and I'm completely fine with it, don't worry. My post wasn't meant as a lamentation, even if it might've sounded like that. Keep up the good work, I enjoy this championship just the way it is. Though, I'll need to take the 50% rule more into consideration for my next prediction...

Which is going to be hard, as I just found out. 2007 - 2010 are going to be quite difficult (for me) to predict at all. Well, here goes nothing:

2007 - Sutil (at least vs. Albers, as both Winkelhock and Yamamoto won't qualify) (other candidates: Rosberg, Fisichella)
2008 - Alonso (other candidates: Rosberg, Hamilton)
2009 - Rosberg (other candidates: Hamilton, Alonso)
2010 - Barrichello (other candidates: Sutil, Kobayashi, maybe even Glock)

Why so many "other candidates"? Because I find it VERY hard to decide this time around. Could be any of them, could be someone completely different. I really can't say. But I'll definitely look forward to the official results, as they might surprise me.


It's fine I was just explaining the reason why that rule exists and I'm happy to hear you're enjoying this championship when I made it tried to make it so any driver could win, and it didn't depend on who had the best car, which makes it more interesting and probably more unpredictable too.

Rob Dylan wrote:I agree with most of Alexandra's guesses, but surely 2010 must be Kubica over Petrov. That must have been the most one-sided team battle of that year. If it wasn't I'd be very surprised.


Yeah, I think Kubica must be the favourite for 2010 but you never know anything could happen.
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Rob Dylan »

Ouch, makes you wonder then why Speed was dumped but Liuzzi stayed, when Speed was ahead of Liuzzi so much of the time...
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

Rob Dylan wrote:Ouch, makes you wonder then why Speed was dumped but Liuzzi stayed, when Speed was ahead of Liuzzi so much of the time...


Yeah, I wondered the same thing too so had a look around for the reason why he was dropped in 2007. It seems he had several crashes and collisions. He also spun off at the European GP qualifying and started last. Apparently because of this Speed was under a lot of pressure and so was his team. He spun off just 2 laps into the European GP, it was reported after the race that he had a physical altercation with team principal Franz Tost, although Tost has since denied this.

I found this post from Reddit,

"He (Tost) was furious that I crashed. When I asked him about the pitstop, he said 'it doesn't matter because you crashed', and he didn't want to hear any criticisms about what the team did. He was trying to blame me about the pitstop.

"After that I just turned away and walked towards the garage, and I guess he must have caught up behind me. When he reached me, he hit me in the middle of the back with a closed fist. Everyone in the team saw it.

"As I was leaving the garage he then followed me behind the partition, where none of the mechanics could see. He grabbed me from the front of my shirt, jerked me around, ripping a little bit my fire suit, and pushed me against the wall.

"After that my only response was to back up in the middle of the garage and ask him if he wanted to hit me in front of everyone else."

Q: So did anybody see what happened when he grabbed you?

Speed: "There were a couple of people who saw. He grabbed me right below the neck, on my fireproof t-shirt, and jerked me back and forth, let go, and then pushed me into the wall behind where the cars are. There were two team people there, and another person, who saw it."

Q: What happened next - is it true that you went to Gerhard and said something?

Speed: "Immediately after that situation, as you can imagine I was furious. I walked to the pit wall and wanted to inform everyone that this happened. So I looked at my team manager, the technical director, and Gerhard Berger, and told them that if my team chief ever touches me again, I'm going to knock him out.

"They said 'OK, let's try to calm this whole situation down'. I said fine, and I went back in my room and I stayed there until the end of the race. At which point, Gerhard and Franz both came back. Franz was calmed down and spent 15 minutes apologising for his behaviour."

Q: Are you worried about your future with the team?

Speed: "To be honest, the only thing I'm worried about is my relationship with Red Bull, because obviously Franz Tost and Gerhard Berger have been pushing the same dishonesty to the media, and I'm worried that might have ruined my relationship with Red Bull.

"Because Red Bull has been amazing to me, and I think we fit together really good, and it's a shame to let these two people ruin the whole thing.

"As far as my future in F1 is concerned, you couldn't pay me enough money to race for those two people again. If it was with a different team, that would be great, but I would also like to do something else with Red Bull, even if it was outside F1. Like I said, my relationship with Red Bull has been fantastic."


Source - https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... s/cz3noxv/
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

2008

Mark Webber becomes a 6-time champion! It may not come as a real surprise for some considering he beat Coulthard the year before. Only Alonso got close enough but was still just 4% off Webber. With Vettel set to move to Red Bull for 2009, this is likely to end Webbers run of dominance that we've seen for much of the 2000s.

Top 3

1. Webber
2. Alonso
3. Vettel


Image

Percentage of laps led over teammate,
Image

In-text form including the number of laps,

1. Webber 564 = 83.8%
2. Alonso 577 = 80.3%
3. Vettel 510 = 76.5%
4. Kubica 823 = 76.2%
5. Hamilton 688 = 69.0%
6. Rosberg 658 = 67.0%
7. Trulli 539 = 62.6%
8. Fisichella 330 = 59.8%
9. Barrichello 463 = 56.8%
10. Massa 555 = 56.0%
11. Räikkönen 435 = 43.9%
12. Button 351 = 43.1%
13. Sutil 221 = 40.1%
14. Glock 322 = 37.3%
15. Nakajima 323 = 32.9%
16. Kovalainen 308 = 30.9%
17. Heidfeld 257 = 23.7%
18. Bourdais 156 = 23.4%
19. Piquet Jr. 141 = 19.6%
20. Coulthard 109 = 16.1%
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Rob Dylan »

It's also definitely true that since the early 2000s the competition between teammates has ramped up dramatically. The "one driver team" is becoming less and less common and so to get 80% alone is a guarantee of a championship these days.
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

Rob Dylan wrote:It's also definitely true that since the early 2000s the competition between teammates has ramped up dramatically. The "one driver team" is becoming less and less common and so to get 80% alone is a guarantee of a championship these days.


Yeah, that's true, I went back over the results to get an average from each decade on what percentage the winners got,

Image

Between the '50s and '90s, it was always over 90%, with the '90s having the highest average percentage, then when we got to the 2000's it started to become much closer which has probably helped this championship become a bit harder to predict despite Webber dominating most of the 2000s.

2009

Nico Rosberg wins his first championship! Alonso again finishes in second place for the third time. Rosberg had a comfortable win being 8.5% clear of second place.

Top 3

1. Rosberg
2. Alonso
3. Hamilton


Image

Percentage of laps led over teammate,
Image

In-text form including the number of laps,

1. Rosberg 737 = 84.4%
2. Alonso 328 = 75.9%
3. Hamilton 533 = 75.3%
4. Räikkönen 472 = 68.3%
5. Buemi = 67.6%
6. Vettel 507 = 65.3%
7. Trulli 417 = 61.2%
8. Button 515 = 55.1%
9. Kubica 418 = 53.7%
10. Massa 214 = 53.6%
11. Fisichella 439 = 49.4%
12. Heidfeld 359 = 46.2%
13. Barrichello 418 = 44.8%
14. Glock 264 = 38.7%
15. Webber 269 = 34.6%
16. Alguersuari 95 = 34.5%
17. Bourdais 98 = 30.4%
18. Sutil 161 = 27.0%
19. Kovalainen 174 = 24.6%
20. Piquet Jr. 104 - 24.0%
21. Nakajima 136 = 15.5%
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Alexandra »

Two days of sluggish internet, and I've already missed the Webber steamroller. Too bad that from now on he'll only get the finger from his team. Well, two fingers, actually. The middle one from his team and the index one as his new teammate. So, basically the british way of flipping someone off...
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

2010

Robert Kubica wins his first championship! He finished 13.7% ahead of Hamilton in second place. No driver got over 80% or 90% apart from Kubica. In fact, most of the teams saw very close teammate battles this year.

Top 3

1. Kubica
2. Hamilton
3. Sutil


Image

Percentage of laps led over teammate,
Image

In-text form including the number of laps,

1. Kubica 795 = 92.5%
2. Hamilton 709 = 78.8%
3. Sutil 519 = 72.1%
4. Alonso 719 = 67.5%
5. Glock 451 = 67.1%
6. Rosberg 620 = 67.0%
7. Kovalainen 461 = 66.8%
8. Kobayashi 234 = 62.4%
9. Vettel 609 = 61.7%
10. Barrichello 533 = 60.7%
11. B Senna 159 = 56.3%
12. Alguersuari 434 = 53.3%
13. Buemi 380 = 46.8%
14. Chandhok 123 = 43.6%
15. Hülkenberg 345 = 39.2%
16. Webber 378 = 38.2%
17. de la Rosa 141 = 37.6%
18. Trulli 229 = 33.1%
19. M Schumacher 304 = 32.9%
20. di Grassi 221 = 32.8%
21. Massa 346 = 32.4%
22. Liuzzi 200 = 27.8%
23. Button 190 = 21.1%
24. Petrov 64 = 7.4%
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Alexandra »

I'm honestly surprised by Petrov's performance. Aside from the fact I don't remember much about him at all, I was somehow under the impression that he couldn't have been half bad, based on how long he was in F1 to begin with. Was that all thanks to his sponsorship money then? :?

Anyways, let's start guessing for a few more seasons until the time comes when I lost touch with F1 completely and won't even recognize half of the grid by name anymore...

2011 - Heidfeld
2012 - Ricciardo
2013 - Hülkenberg (or Bianchi)
2014 - Sutil (maybe Kobayashi...)
2015 - Ricciardo (or Grosjean...) (Verstappen, maybe...?) Memory starts getting foggy already...
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Rob Dylan »

I expected Petrov, not because he was necessarily bad, but because of Kubica's godlike season that year.

Now for 2011..... it may have to be Vettel or Alonso that win it.

Either that or could Kovalainen steal one after his awesome year at Team Lotus?
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by James1978 »

Massively surprised that Hamilton was further ahead of Button than Alonso was ahead of Massa!
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

2011

Sebastian Vettel wins his first championship! Fernando Alonso is the runner up again in second place for the fourth time, he's a bit like how Ronnie Peterson was in this championship consistently at the top but never managed the win. Further down the grid, it was another tight season with many of the drivers finishing almost equal to their teammates.

Top 3

1. Vettel
2. Alonso
3. Glock


Image

Percentage of laps led over teammate,
Image

In-text form including the number of laps,

1. Vettel 913 = 89.2%
2. Alonso 853 = 83.3%
3. Glock 534 = 72.9%
4. Rosberg 622 = 70.4%
5. Kovalainen 567 = 69.8%
6. Petrov 316 = 57.8%
7. Barrichello 482 = 56.8%
8. Kobayashi 451 = 56.2%
9. Sutil 558 = 53.6%
10. Buemi 461 = 51.2%
11. Button 447 = 50.3%
12. Liuzzi 216 = 50.2%
13. Ricciardo 214 = 49.7%
14. Hamilton 441 = 49.6%
15. Alguersuari 439 = 48.7%
16. di Resta 483 = 46.3%
17. Pérez 351 = 43.7%
18. Maldonado 366 = 43.1%
19. Heidfeld 230 = 42.1%
20. Trulli 245 = 30.1%
21. M Schumacher 261 = 29.5%
22. d'Ambrosio 198 = 27.0%
23. Massa 170 = 16.6%
24. Webber 110 = 10.7%

James1978 wrote:Massively surprised that Hamilton was further ahead of Button than Alonso was ahead of Massa!


Button was just taking it easy so he could beat Hamilton by 6 laps the following year :)
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

2012

Fernando Alonso wins his first championship! It seems to be a good year for the Spanish drivers as Pedro de la Rosa finished second. An honourable mention goes to Nico Hülkenberg, while he only finished 9th he managed a remarkable comeback. His teammate Paul di Resta was dominating the early part of the season to the point he became a championship contender but Nico Hülkenberg managed to turn things around enough to get 59% of laps ahead of his teammate. While I often see this happen every year it's rare to see a driver achieve that on this scale.

Top 3

1. Alonso
2. de la Rosa
3. Vettel


Image

Percentage of laps led over teammate,
Image

In-text form including the number of laps,

1. Alonso 1013 = 93.7%
2. de la Rosa 628 = 81.8%
3. Vettel 834 = 74.3%
4. Räikkönen 573 = 71.3%
5. Pérez 531 = 67.8%
6. Hamilton 641 = 63.5%
7. Glock 590 = 59.6%
8. Kovalainen 614 = 59.4%
9. Hülkenberg 605 = 59.2%
10. Ricciardo 607 = 58.0%
11. Rosberg 463 = 57.1%
12. Maldonado 501 = 56.8%
13. Senna 381 = 43.1%
14. M Schumacher 347 = 42.8%
15. Vergne 438 = 41.9%
16. di Resta 416 = 40.7%
17. Petrov 419 = 40.5%
18. Pic 399 = 40.3%
19. Button 367 = 36.4%
20. Kobayashi 252 = 32.18%
21. Grosjean 230 = 28.6%
22. Webber 287 = 25.6%
23. Karthikeyan 139 = 18.1%
24. Massa 68 = 6.2%
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

2013

Sebastian Vettel wins his 2nd championship! It was a close one this year as Nico Hülkenberg finished in second just 3.1% behind. It was another tightly fought year with only 5 out of the 22 drivers making it over 60% of laps ahead of their own teammate.

Top 3

1. Vettel
2. Hülkenberg
3. Alonso


Image

In 2013 we also said goodbye to our record-breaking 6-time champ Mark Webber! While his final few years hadn't been his best he'll be remembered here for dominating the 2000's,

Image

Percentage of laps led over teammate,
Image

In-text form including the number of laps,

1. Vettel 921 = 88.6%
2. Hülkenberg 807 = 85.5%
3. Alonso 805 = 83.1%
4. Bianchi 786 = 79.1%
5. Ricciardo 545 = 62.7%
6. Räikkönen 487 = 58.5%
7. Button 623 = 55.9%
8. di Resta 461 = 55.8%
9. Pic 452 = 55.5%
10. Maldonado 509 = 51.6%
11. Hamilton 515 = 50.9%
12. Rosberg 496 = 49.0%
13. Bottas 477 = 48.3%
14. van der Garde 362 = 44.4%
15. Sutil 365 = 44.1%
16. Pérez 490 = 44.0%
17. Grosjean 345 = 41.4%
18. Vergne 324 = 37.2%
19. Chilton 207 = 20.8%
20. Massa 163 = 16.8%
21. Gutiérrez 136 = 14.4%
22. Webber 118 = 11.3%
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by James1978 »

So according to the Williams and Mercedes stats - Maldonado beats Bottas by more than Hamilton beat Rosberg. Then Bottas later became Hamilton's teammate. So that means to me if Maldonado had been in a Mercedes those last 7 years he might have won a few WDCs. :-)
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

2014

Fernando Alonso wins his 2nd championship! It was another close year for many teams and at least five were pretty much split 50/50. One driver who surprised me was Sebastian Vettel who actually led 48.0% of laps ahead of Daniel Ricciardo! I know Vettel had a bad 2014 season and it's one you hear people talk about but in this championship, he didn't do too bad of a job, well he is a 2-time champion and had just beaten our 6-time winner, Webber 5 years in a row! So perhaps not too surprising he put up a decent enough fight against Ricciardo.

Top 3

1. Alonso
2. Kobayashi
3. Bianchi


Image

Percentage of laps led over teammate,
Image

In-text form including the number of laps,

1. Alonso 858 = 84.6%
2. Kobayashi 413 = 78.8%
3. Bianchi 530 = 75.3%
4. Button 734 = 66.4%
5. Hülkenberg 516 = 58.1%
6. Grosjean 407 = 56.9%
7. Vergne 429 = 53.0%
8. Massa 488 = 52.4%
9. Sutil 390 = 52.2%
10. Rosberg 509 = 51.9%
11. Ricciardo 485 = 51.9%
12. Hamilton 470 = 48.0%
13. Vettel 448 = 48.0%
14. Gutiérrez 357 = 47.7%
15. Bottas 443 = 47.5%
16. Kvyat 379 = 46.9%
17. Maldonado 308 = 43.0%
18. Pérez 371 = 41.8%
19. Magnussen 370 = 33.5%
20. Chilton 173 = 24.6%
21. Ericsson 111 = 21.1%
22. Räikkönen 155 = 15.3%
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Rob Dylan »

Damn, this one was interesting.

Rosberg ahead of Hamilton!
Vergne ahead of Kvyat!

Ricciardo I'm actually not too surprised about. Ricciardo-Vettel could have gone either way throughout most of the season, unlike Leclerc-Vettel five years later. Whilst I expect Vettel to dominate Raikkonen as Alonso did, I think that domination will decrease as Raikkonen sucks less in 2017/8.
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by James1978 »

Damn you Alonso!! (Stopping Kobayashi winning......)
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

2015

Sebastian Vettel wins his third championship! It was the closest season we've ever had with Vettel winning with only 78.2%, a new record. Romain Grosjean came very close and finished just 2.4% behind in second place.

Top 3

1. Vettel
2. Grosjean
3. Stevens


Image

Percentage of laps led over teammate,
Image

In-text form including the number of laps,

1. Vettel 754 = 78.2%
2. Grosjean 494 = 75.8%
3. Stevens 391 = 63.6%
4. Hulkenberg 558 = 62.1%
5. Bottas 613 = 61.3%
6. Hamilton 635 = 59.5%
7. Verstappen 518 = 58.5%
8. Ricciardo 536 = 55.4%
9. Button 350 = 53.1%
10. Nasr 491 = 52.5%
11. Ericsson 443 = 47.4%
12. Alonso 309 = 46.8%
13. Kvyat 430 = 44.5%
14. Sainz 367 = 41.4%
15. Rosberg 432 = 40.4%
16. Massa 387 = 38.7%
17. Perez 340 = 37.8%
18. Merhi 223 = 36.3%
19. Maldonado 157 = 24.1%
20. Raikkonen 210 = 21.7%
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

2016

Pascal Wehrlein wins his first championship! He was very lucky that Ocon failed to qualify for this season he was just one race short of being allowed in, if Ocon had been let in, the winner would have easily had been Sainz.

Top 3

1. Wehrlein
2. Sainz
3. Vettel


Image

Percentage of laps led over teammate,
Image

In-text form including the number of laps,

1. Wehrlein 490 = 84.0%
2. Sainz 688 = 73.6%
3. Vettel 601 = 66.7%
4. Alonso 589 = 62.1%
5. Ericsson 607 = 60.1%
6. Bottas 608 = 55.8%
7. Magnussen 466 = 54.9%
8. Hamilton 639 = 53.8%
9. Perez 562 = 53.7%
10. Grosjean 483 = 53.6%
11. Verstappen 601 = 52.4%
12. Ricciardo 574 = 50.4%
13. Gutierrez 417 = 46.3%
14. Hulkenberg 483 = 46.2%
15. Rosberg 547 = 46.1%
16. Palmer 382 = 45.0%
17. Massa 480 = 44.1%
18. Nasr 402 = 39.8%
19. Button 358 = 37.8%
20. Raikkonen 300 = 33.2%
21. Kvyat 208 = 20.9%
22. Haryanto 93 = 15.9%
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Alexandra »

Huh... So, almost all of my predictions were totally wrong or at the very least pretty near misses. Oh well. Now I'm interested to see where this championship heads with the more recent years. As I had already lost touch with F1 by that point (mostly after the Bianchi accident), I won't predict anymore, but I'll keep following nonetheless. :)
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

Alexandra wrote:Huh... So, almost all of my predictions were totally wrong or at the very least pretty near misses. Oh well. Now I'm interested to see where this championship heads with the more recent years. As I had already lost touch with F1 by that point (mostly after the Bianchi accident), I won't predict anymore, but I'll keep following nonetheless. :)


Yeah, it's kind of hard to predict I knew Alonso had a good chance in 2012 and 2014 and Vettel for 2013, I wasn't sure about any of the other years. I'm certain that Verstappen will be a very strong contender for 2019 and 2020. Did you lose interest in F1 because of the Mercedes dominance? I haven't watched it that much in recent years but I have kept up with the race results and watch the race highlights on YouTube, so far 2021 is looking good at least for now with Verstappen vs Hamilton.

2017

Nico Hülkenberg wins his first championship! It was one of the closest championship battles we've ever had with Vettel finishing just 1.3% behind. Hülkenberg did well to beat two drivers this year both Sainz and Palmer.

Top 3

1. Hulkenberg
2. Vettel
3. Alonso


Image

Percentage of laps led over teammate,
Image

In-text form including the number of laps,

1. Hulkenberg 607 = 79.6%
2. Vettel 752 = 78.3%
3. Alonso 473 = 74.1%
4. Verstappen 371 = 70.1%
5. Sainz 457 = 69.4%
6. Massa 590 = 66.5%
7. Magnussen 544 = 62.6%
8. Perez 639 = 61.6%
9. Hamilton 672 = 57.5%
10. Ericsson 431 = 50.1%
11. Wehrlein 428 = 49.8%
12. Bottas 496 = 42.4%
13. Ocon 397 = 38.3%
14. Stroll 356 = 37.5%
15. Grosjean 325 = 37.3%
16. Vandoorne 222 = 31.9%
17. Ricciardo 158 = 29.8%
18. Kvyat 145 = 26.0%
19. Palmer 138 = 21.7%
20. Raikkonen 208 = 21.6%
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

2018

Fernando Alonso wins his third championship! It was a slightly less close season this time than recent with many drivers doing better than their teammate. Alonso has decided he won't defend his title next year and will leave F1.

Top 3

1. Alonso
2. Verstappen
3. Gasly


Alonso celebrating his third championship-winning title.
Image

Percentage of laps led over teammate,
Image

In-text form including the number of laps,

1. Alonso 794 = 82.8%
2. Verstappen 740 = 77.4%
3. Gasly 630 = 73.0%
4. Hamilton 882 = 72.4%
5. Leclerc 662 = 72.0%
6. Ocon 674 = 66.0%
7. Vettel 690 = 62.7%
8. Hulkenberg 526 = 59.8%
9. Magnussen 605 = 59.0%
10. Stroll 599 = 57.2%
11. Sirotkin 448 = 42.7%
12. Grosjean 419 = 40.9%
13. Sainz 353 = 40.1%
14. Raikkonen 410 = 37.2%
15. Perez 347 = 33.9%
16. Ericsson 257 = 27.9%
17. Bottas 336 = 27.5%
18. Hartley 232 = 26.9%
19. Ricciardo 216 = 22.5%
20. Vandoorne 164 = 17.1%
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Alexandra »

Zenarcher wrote:Yeah, it's kind of hard to predict I knew Alonso had a good chance in 2012 and 2014 and Vettel for 2013, I wasn't sure about any of the other years. I'm certain that Verstappen will be a very strong contender for 2019 and 2020. Did you lose interest in F1 because of the Mercedes dominance? I haven't watched it that much in recent years but I have kept up with the race results and watch the race highlights on YouTube, so far 2021 is looking good at least for now with Verstappen vs Hamilton.


No, one team dominance is nothing new to me, as I've been through both the Schumacher-Ferrari-era and the Vettel-Red-Bull-years. It was more a multitude of factors: Michael Schumacher retiring for good, no real connection to new german shooting star Vettel or Lewis Hamilton, the new car designs were not really my cup of coffee, the tragic deaths of de Villota, Bianchi, Wheldon, and Wilson... Plus the ever-dwindeling list of teams I knew from my time (I know how old that makes me sound, but that's how I feel): Tyrrell gone, Minardi gone, Jordan gone, Sauber gone, now even Williams gone, and McLaren but a shell of their former self. All of these outfits taken over by global corporations less interested in racing itself but more interested in the mere image gain from being in F1. And let's better not talk about the unnecessarily confusing tyre regulations which seemed to change from race to race...

Also, but maybe only really important to me personally: Women in F1. Either the woman driver herself isn't ready yet, or the team isn't ready to let her drive yet. How hard can it really be, folks? Almost everyone and their mother raged about Susie Wolff only getting that testing seat at Williams for being Toto's wife, but I have to say: If that's what it takes for a woman to get into F1...

Sorry for the rather long answer, which may have better been posted in the unpopular opinions thread... :oops:
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Zenarcher »

2019

Max Verstappen wins his first championship! He had overall 84.9% and Russell finished just 6.1% behind with 78.8%. I think Verstappen has become our youngest champion, I'll make a list later of everyone's age when they won.

Top 3

1. Verstappen
2. Russell
3. Raikkonen


Image

Percentage of laps led over teammate,
Image

In-text form including the number of laps,

1. Verstappen 985 = 84.9%
2. Russell 908 = 78.8%
3. Raikkonen 882 = 74.2%
4. Hamilton 908 = 73.6%
5. Perez 731 = 64.8%
6. Sainz 627 = 63.9%
7. Ricciardo 686 = 63.5%
8. Grosjean 593 = 56.9%
9. Leclerc 571 = 52.9%
10. Kvyat 564 = 47.6%
11. Vettel 507 = 47.0%
12. Magnussen 448 = 43.0%
13. Albon 482 = 42.6%
14. Hulkenberg 393 = 36.4%
15. Norris 354 = 36.0%
16. Stroll 397 = 35.2%
17. Bottas 325 = 26.3%
18. Giovinazzi 306 = 25.7%
19. Gasly 311 = 25.6%
20. Kubica 243 = 21.1%

Alexandra wrote:
No, one team dominance is nothing new to me, as I've been through both the Schumacher-Ferrari-era and the Vettel-Red-Bull-years. It was more a multitude of factors: Michael Schumacher retiring for good, no real connection to new german shooting star Vettel or Lewis Hamilton, the new car designs were not really my cup of coffee, the tragic deaths of de Villota, Bianchi, Wheldon, and Wilson... Plus the ever-dwindeling list of teams I knew from my time (I know how old that makes me sound, but that's how I feel): Tyrrell gone, Minardi gone, Jordan gone, Sauber gone, now even Williams gone, and McLaren but a shell of their former self. All of these outfits taken over by global corporations less interested in racing itself but more interested in the mere image gain from being in F1. And let's better not talk about the unnecessarily confusing tyre regulations which seemed to change from race to race...

Also, but maybe only really important to me personally: Women in F1. Either the woman driver herself isn't ready yet, or the team isn't ready to let her drive yet. How hard can it really be, folks? Almost everyone and their mother raged about Susie Wolff only getting that testing seat at Williams for being Toto's wife, but I have to say: If that's what it takes for a woman to get into F1...

Sorry for the rather long answer, which may have better been posted in the unpopular opinions thread... :oops:


It would be great to see women in F1, do you follow the W Series? I just checked its starting soon this month on the 26th.
Last edited by Zenarcher on 01 Jun 2021, 22:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Alexandra »

Zenarcher wrote:It would be great to see women in F1, do you follow the W Series? I just checked its starting soon this month on the 26th.


Yes, I do follow since the inaugural season, but I'm still unsure what to think of the series in general. While it is trying to promote female racing drivers, I also totally understand the allegations made by Mann, de Silvestro and many others, that the series segregates women from men, albeit unintentionally. I would have somehow preferred it if the FIA had just ruled that from 2020 onwards, all FIA-sanctioned motorsport series had to have at least 25 or even 50% female driver participation. But maybe the FIA is not as powerful as it pretends to be...
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Butterfox »

Zenarcher wrote:Image

Woah Brendon Hartley's looks have changed a lot over one year. :D
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by dr-baker »

Alexandra wrote:. I would have somehow preferred it if the FIA had just ruled that from 2020 onwards, all FIA-sanctioned motorsport series had to have at least 25 or even 50% female driver participation. But maybe the FIA is not as powerful as it pretends to be...

It's an interesting conundrum, that. I am a male nurse. Here in the UK, around 89% of nurses are female and therefore around 11% male (at least, pre-pandemic when I was a student nurse). If I were to go to a job interview for a nursing job, I would not want to be chosen to fill a quota of male nurses. I would want the best candidate to be chosen because they were the best fit for the job, even if that means I don't get chosen as much. I am against "positive discrimination " because it is still discrimination in another form. There are some places that will discriminate against male nurses and that is fine. I wouldn't want to work there anyway. (By the way, I have been told that Florence Nightingale was against male nurses because she thought men couldn't be nurturing enough!)

I like W Series, but it will take some years to prove itself. If it doesn't produce any F1/Indycar/WEC drivers by the end of the decade, then it will have failed in my mind. It's already great to see W Series driver Jessica Hawkins get another chance at BTCC though.
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by Alexandra »

dr-baker wrote:
Alexandra wrote:I would have somehow preferred it if the FIA had just ruled that from 2020 onwards, all FIA-sanctioned motorsport series had to have at least 25 or even 50% female driver participation. But maybe the FIA is not as powerful as it pretends to be...

It's an interesting conundrum, that. I am a male nurse. Here in the UK, around 89% of nurses are female and therefore around 11% male (at least, pre-pandemic when I was a student nurse). If I were to go to a job interview for a nursing job, I would not want to be chosen to fill a quota of male nurses. I would want the best candidate to be chosen because they were the best fit for the job, even if that means I don't get chosen as much. I am against "positive discrimination " because it is still discrimination in another form. There are some places that will discriminate against male nurses and that is fine. I wouldn't want to work there anyway. (By the way, I have been told that Florence Nightingale was against male nurses because she thought men couldn't be nurturing enough!)

I like W Series, but it will take some years to prove itself. If it doesn't produce any F1/Indycar/WEC drivers by the end of the decade, then it will have failed in my mind. It's already great to see W Series driver Jessica Hawkins get another chance at BTCC though.

Yeah, I can definitely see your point. And it is a valid one. But as long as so many team managers and male drivers believe us women to be inferior, it could still be decades until we finally reach a "best candidate hired" situation in motorsports. As long as women like, for example, Flick Haigh only get respected by their male peers when they've "finally" won a championship. Funny, how I've read the same thing about Donna Mae Mims in - oh, when was it...? - 1963!!! Yup, we have a LONG way ahead of us...

I'm really glad I'm not in the position to decide what's best in this situation, because it seems there is no safe way that will satisfy all sides. If you segregate, you're the villain for one side, but if you enforce quotas, you might be just as well for the opposite side. Thank god I'm only a woman writing motorsports fanfiction. No one ever gets mad about these, am I right? :lol:

I think you're right. Let's give the W Series 5 or even 10 years to show us what it can do. Maybe it was the right way all along, maybe not. I'll keep following it nonetheless, and I'm really happy for Hawkins. She deserves this chance imo.
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Re: Lap In Front of Your Teammate Championship - Moss Cup

Post by dr-baker »

True, there is no straightforward answer. It may even be no one single answer. And it's not easy for me as I am a fan of both Pippa Mann and W Series, but time will tell.
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
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MCard LOLA
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