The place for speaking your mind on current goings-on in F1
by Ataxia 06 Dec 2017, 10:46
East Londoner wrote:Also, it's been revealed that F1 saw almost a 50% decline in overtaking during 2017. I mean, who would have thought mandating a a stupidly enormous front wing would have such an effect? :facepalm: Which also means, Salamander - if that is your real name, you were right. This formula sucks. :facepalm:


But at the same time, the fastest quali times went up by 2.5 seconds on average.

Besides, it's nowhere near as cut and dry as "oh the cars can't follow". That's rubbish. Why can F2 cars manage it? Because they're the SAME car. In F1, you see the clear hierarchy in the top four of Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull and Force India. Usually, they qualify in that order, and so you're not ever going to see them fighting for position unless suddenly one of them steals a march overnight.

It's such a cop-out to say "there's no overtaking it's the aero formula's fault" when you find that the seasons with the biggest overtaking figures were as a result of cars having similar performance and softer tyres. Is it a coincidence that Sochi had just one overtake, and the softest tyres could probably last the whole race?

We had massive overtaking figures in 2012, not because of any aero formula, but because there was such a ridiculous drop-off in tyre quality that people just went backwards. Then, you descend into the argument of quality/quantity. Sure, overtakes have been down this year, but what we've had has been spectacular.

Do I agree that the aero formula now is the best solution? No, focus should be firmly on generating more downforce from the underbody rather than the front and rear wing. But we've had some really great races this year, and to just simply throw "The Armchair Enthusiast's Guide To Aerodynamics" at the whole season without any regard for nuance is just silly.

Gonzalez wrote:I'm not a non-sequitur
by Rob Dylan 06 Dec 2017, 12:45
I'd agree with the quality over quantity argument here. Personally, unless I'd read that article on Autosport, I would never have guessed there was such a large drop-off in overtakes since last season. There seemed to be the same number this year, and certainly not a significant drop-off like it says so. But then again, the racing has been more competitive (Mercedes only won around 60% of the races, rather than 90%), and I can remember a lot more shuffling around of the lead (Verstappen passing Hamilton in Malaysia; the madness that was Baku). There have been some easy overtaking tracks still (I'm looking at you, main straight in Mexico City) where DRS has allowed overtaking without fuss.

If I were to make my own conclusion about the quality of 2017 as compared to 2016, I would say that when the 2016 season ended, it was really difficult to remember a standout race from it all, or a standout reject of the year that shone above everyone else. This year we've had some standout races that have been the best racing since some of hte mad 2012 and 2014 ones. People have actually been competing a lot more, and the quality between the drivers has been easier to pick out. I think the overtakes fit into that as well - they work harder for them, and they're more exciting to watch that way.

But then again, that's just my opinion.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by yannicksamlad 06 Dec 2017, 15:33
East Londoner wrote:The three engines-per-year rule is now reality. I can't imagine this won't blow up in the FIA's collective faces sometime next year.:


Doesnt it depend how you view it; a lot of people dont like penalties because they penalise drivers , but you could look at them as a way to mix up the grid on the basis of what is actually a reasonable attempt to stop ridiculous spending . We like a mixed up grid.

On the aero-overtaking point , I suppose I would point out that the GP2/F2 crew manage overtaking even before the tyre performance varies , they do it without 'boost' engine modes and they even do it without DRS quite a lot. GP3 struggled with the old car, but the new one seems better for overtaking (even without DRS) , although it does seem harder in a GP3 car than perhaps in a GP2/11. And I think the aero is important - the drivers complain and they dont make those front wings like that without thinking there's a good reason.
Of course , as various people have shown , having a car advantage in F1 allows a lot of overtaking , but where the cars are more equal , they do seem to struggle with following the car ahead. And that's aero.
And personally I hate it when a small chunk of front wing falls off , and the performance disappears - it makes drivers less likely to risk a move
The other aspect of aero that makes overtaking hard is that the corners are all flat out , and there's no need to brake

I started supporting Emmo in 1976 (3 points )....missed 75, 74, 73, 72...
by Salamander 06 Dec 2017, 17:42
East Londoner wrote:Also, it's been revealed that F1 saw almost a 50% decline in overtaking during 2017. I mean, who would have thought mandating a stupidly enormous front wing would have such an effect? :facepalm: Which also means, Salamander - if that is your real name, you were right. This formula sucks. :facepalm:


I mean it's not like it was some great scientific proof I undertook to figure this out: the one great rule of motorsport engineering is that downforce is inversely proportional to good racing. When the FIA announced a new set of aero regs allowing the teams to go nuts on downforce again, this was always gonna be the end result. It doesn't matter what form of racing it is or whatever else is involved - more downforce means higher grip in the corners. Which means higher corner speeds, and faster corners become easier to take and result in less mistakes. It's why Eau Rouge went from being a great challenge of bravery/stupidity as to who dared to not lift, to a corner which pretty much everyone can now take flat out.

Klon wrote:I am most British
Normal32 wrote:i am most British

Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing I wouldn't be in Formula 1.
Everything's great.
I'm not surprised about anything.
by Klon 07 Dec 2017, 17:57
East Londoner wrote:Also, it's been revealed that F1 saw almost a 50% decline in overtaking during 2017. I mean, who would have thought mandating a stupidly enormous front wing would have such an effect? :facepalm: Which also means, Salamander - if that is your real name, you were right. This formula sucks. :facepalm:


Because as we know, the old rule applies:

Moar overtakin = better racin'!!1!

Go watch MotoGP if you got attention deficit syndrome. :D

I CAN'T SEE THE FUTURE!
by Salamander 07 Dec 2017, 18:59
Klon wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Also, it's been revealed that F1 saw almost a 50% decline in overtaking during 2017. I mean, who would have thought mandating a stupidly enormous front wing would have such an effect? :facepalm: Which also means, Salamander - if that is your real name, you were right. This formula sucks. :facepalm:


Because as we know, the old rule applies:

Moar overtakin = better racin'!!1!

Go watch MotoGP if you got attention deficit syndrome. :D


More overtaking is a by-product of better racing. I'm perfectly fine watching a battle where nobody overtakes - so long as it's because the driver in front is doing a great job defending as opposed to the mechanics of the cars making it so that an overtake is practically an impossible prospect. Because otherwise I might as well just watch a parade.

Klon wrote:I am most British
Normal32 wrote:i am most British

Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing I wouldn't be in Formula 1.
Everything's great.
I'm not surprised about anything.
by giraurd 07 Dec 2017, 19:56
Indeed.

Remember Hungaroring? In any normal category it would have been an exciting race, what with the leading car having some car trouble mid race, and the quick Mercedes chasing right after the Ferraris - but on a track notoriously difficult to overtake. A perfect recipe for a race long diffuser to diffuser battle,.

What happened in F1 though? Well absolutely nothing, because the Ferraris could just trundle around on the track without any worry whatsoever, as the ridiculous quantity of dirty air was doing all the defending for them - Hamilton could barely enter the DRS zone without losing all grip on the twisty part right after!

But oh well, thats F1. Then just watch next year, how IndyCar will create show after show on way more overtaking hostile racecourses than Hungaroring...

when you're dead people start listening
by This 08 Dec 2017, 01:23
Klon wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Also, it's been revealed that F1 saw almost a 50% decline in overtaking during 2017. I mean, who would have thought mandating a stupidly enormous front wing would have such an effect? :facepalm: Which also means, Salamander - if that is your real name, you were right. This formula sucks. :facepalm:


Because as we know, the old rule applies:

Moar overtakin = better racin'!!1!

Go watch MotoGP if you got attention deficit syndrome. :D


I got attention deficit disorder (the correct name) and i'm fine with quality over quantity.

Hail the Fox Queen.
by Bleu 10 Dec 2017, 15:49
In MotoGP we see a lot of passing and re-passing. In F1 there's barely any once the battle is really over.
by mario 10 Dec 2017, 20:40
Ataxia wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Also, it's been revealed that F1 saw almost a 50% decline in overtaking during 2017. I mean, who would have thought mandating a a stupidly enormous front wing would have such an effect? :facepalm: Which also means, Salamander - if that is your real name, you were right. This formula sucks. :facepalm:


But at the same time, the fastest quali times went up by 2.5 seconds on average.

Besides, it's nowhere near as cut and dry as "oh the cars can't follow". That's rubbish. Why can F2 cars manage it? Because they're the SAME car. In F1, you see the clear hierarchy in the top four of Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull and Force India. Usually, they qualify in that order, and so you're not ever going to see them fighting for position unless suddenly one of them steals a march overnight.

I do agree that, with the shake up in the field that we saw as a result of the 2017 rule changes, the increased field spread is a significant factor.

There has been a reasonably sizeable gap between the top three teams and the midfield pack, and at the start of the year Mercedes and Ferrari had a noticeable gap to Red Bull too - Red Bull really didn't come on strong until the latter part of the year, but even so they were hobbled in a number of races by engine penalties. In the midfield pack, you did have a situation where McLaren and Renault did start climbing up through the field over the season, but that was also offset by Toro Rosso and Sauber tending to drift away from the pack over the season too.

As you say, the net result was that the teams tended to qualify in a reasonably consistent order, so it is not surprising that the races then played out as they did. The larger gaps between teams wouldn't have helped with on track battles - there may be some performance convergence in 2018 though, so we will see what happens next year.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by mario 13 Dec 2017, 21:22

It seems that the mere suggestion that Williams might hire Sirotkin has lead to the team being given some serious grief from some sections of the fan base.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by Rob Dylan 14 Dec 2017, 01:29
mario wrote:

It seems that the mere suggestion that Williams might hire Sirotkin has lead to the team being given some serious grief from some sections of the fan base.

Well, if the whole Kubica thing was a publicity stunt to give Williams positive ratings and exposure, they'll have to deal with the fan backlash if they choose Sirotkin. Not that I have anything against Sirotkin - from what I've seen he's perfectly competent - but fans will hate him and Williams out of spite if it was all a stunt.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by This 14 Dec 2017, 05:07
Pretty hard to turn down a nice amount of SMP roebels though... And Sirotkin seems to be a capable driver.

Hail the Fox Queen.
by dinizintheoven 14 Dec 2017, 13:33
He must be coughing up an enormous amount of cash if Martini's rule about having a driver 25-plus is going to be overlooked...

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by mario 14 Dec 2017, 19:55
Rob Dylan wrote:
mario wrote:

It seems that the mere suggestion that Williams might hire Sirotkin has lead to the team being given some serious grief from some sections of the fan base.

Well, if the whole Kubica thing was a publicity stunt to give Williams positive ratings and exposure, they'll have to deal with the fan backlash if they choose Sirotkin. Not that I have anything against Sirotkin - from what I've seen he's perfectly competent - but fans will hate him and Williams out of spite if it was all a stunt.

I can see why there would be a backlash if that was the case, but I don't think that Williams were running Kubica as a publicity stunt.

They had already gone to the effort of running Kubica in two private tests before the more public test in Abu Dhabi - those two earlier tests were relatively low profile, so they did not generate that much publicity for the team, and there was a bit of a debate over who would bear the brunt of running the tests as well.

It suggests that they were putting more effort into evaluating Kubica's performance than a mere publicity stunt would warrant, so I am inclined to believe that they were interested in him. However, even before the recent rumours about Sirotkin kicked in, there were already suggestions that Kubica's performance in Abu Dhabi were a bit mixed - some runs seemingly suggesting reasonably consistent pace, but at the same time signs that his outright pace was not as strong as had first been expected.

It does seem that part of the backlash is by rather bitter Kubica fans who wanted to have the fairytale ending of seeing Kubica come back into the sport - and Sirotkin, if he is chosen instead, is getting their ire for being the man whom they see as denying them that perfect ending. There seems to be a hardcore contingent that seem utterly convinced that Kubica must be a faster driver, whatever evidence is presented to them, and still seem to be stuck with that vision of him as he was in 2010 and that one test in 2011, not how he is now 7 years later.

I do also think that, in a few instances, Sirotkin's nationality is leading to him being treated more harshly given the increasingly negative perception of Russia in the sporting sphere. I've certainly seen more than a few posts in some sectors of the net where there is some hostility towards him because of his nationality, and some which openly abuse him because he is Russian.

dinizintheoven wrote:He must be coughing up an enormous amount of cash if Martini's rule about having a driver 25-plus is going to be overlooked...

Lowe seems to have dismissed that claim, and there have been a few other writers who have cast doubt on the veracity of that requirement too.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by Dj_bereta 14 Dec 2017, 21:48
If Martini minimum age isn't a problem, so why Williams gave a chance to Sirotkin of all people instead of Werhlein or even Massa? I understand if the Russian bring some cash for the team and looks like Williams needs money now, but the downside is: he is a rookie despite having some testing experience. And Stroll only have one year of experience. I expect Williams struggling a lot with a inexperienced drivers.

Waiting for Lotus hiring Johnny Cecotto jr.
by Rob Dylan 15 Dec 2017, 12:39
Yeah, although I personally don't have a problem with Sirotkin coming into Formula 1, it does seem strange with Williams have di Resta as a respectable backup option, Kubica as a risky comeback kid, Massa a two-time retiree, and Wehrlein as a respectable young driver, and yet, even though two of those options will bring guaranteed consistent and good results, they're instead thinking of bypassing all four options for a rookie. But then again, what do I know :chilton:

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by mario 15 Dec 2017, 22:10
Dj_bereta wrote:If Martini minimum age isn't a problem, so why Williams gave a chance to Sirotkin of all people instead of Werhlein or even Massa? I understand if the Russian bring some cash for the team and looks like Williams needs money now, but the downside is: he is a rookie despite having some testing experience. And Stroll only have one year of experience. I expect Williams struggling a lot with a inexperienced drivers.

In the case of Wehrlein, perhaps an element of it is that Mercedes seems to have been a bit half hearted with their support for him - there have been a few suggestions that the relationship between Wehrlein and Mercedes has been a bit more acrimonious this year, so it is possible that their support for him in the negotiations with Williams is not as strong as it might otherwise have been.

There has also been a bit of talk in the past that Wehrlein can sometimes be a bit of a difficult driver to work with, and there have been a few moments where he has appeared to be a bit tempestuous at Sauber. It may be that Williams perceive him as being a difficult person to work with and one that might be a disruptive influence within the team.

Rob Dylan wrote:Yeah, although I personally don't have a problem with Sirotkin coming into Formula 1, it does seem strange with Williams have di Resta as a respectable backup option, Kubica as a risky comeback kid, Massa a two-time retiree, and Wehrlein as a respectable young driver, and yet, even though two of those options will bring guaranteed consistent and good results, they're instead thinking of bypassing all four options for a rookie. But then again, what do I know :chilton:

In the case of di Resta, the biggest problem he has is that he does not have any personal sponsorship - when all of the other drivers have at least some financial backing, that puts him at something of a disadvantage.

As for Massa, it sounds as if he is content to retire from F1 and move in a different direction - there have been a few rumours that Massa might be being lined up for a role at the FIA, potentially becoming the Brazilian motorsport representative on the World Motorsport Council.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by James1978 17 Dec 2017, 07:36
If Williams did go down the Russian route, I'd have preferred Kvyat - I would have liked to have seen how he did free of the ties of Red Bull.

"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
by Francis23 17 Dec 2017, 14:03
James1978 wrote:If Williams did go down the Russian route, I'd have preferred Kvyat - I would have liked to have seen how he did free of the ties of Red Bull.

I could not agree more, I previously said that when Massa originally retired a year ago Kvyat should have tried to jump ship
by Rob Dylan 17 Dec 2017, 15:41
Funnily enough, regardless of what has happened to Daniil in the last year and a half, I still have a feeling that this won't be the last we've seen of him in Formula 1.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by dr-baker 17 Dec 2017, 16:39
Rob Dylan wrote:Funnily enough, regardless of what has happened to Daniil in the last year and a half, I still have a feeling that this won't be the last we've seen of him in Formula 1.

Verstappen had better hope so if he wants to win again! ;)

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by mario 17 Dec 2017, 20:16
Francis23 wrote:
James1978 wrote:If Williams did go down the Russian route, I'd have preferred Kvyat - I would have liked to have seen how he did free of the ties of Red Bull.

I could not agree more, I previously said that when Massa originally retired a year ago Kvyat should have tried to jump ship

It has been suggested that Williams are still holding talks with Kvyat, though that might be as a back up in case negotiations with Sirotkin do not result in a deal.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by takagi_for_the_win 08 Jan 2018, 11:45
Paul Hayes wrote:So what happened to Martini needing one Williams driver to be over 25?

I'm fairly certain that was debunked as being something Martini would ideally have, rather than a necessary requirement.

TORA! TORA! TORA!
by tommykl 10 Jan 2018, 14:24
http://www.f1i.fr/infos/kvyat-rejoint-ferrari/

Daniil has found himself a job as simulator and development driver for Ferrari, the job that Jean-Éric Vergne used to have. It's not especially conducive to getting him an actual race drive any time soon, but it's something!

Ataxia wrote:say "I think ur nice gal but man's not into dis" and shawty be like "k den"

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Spot recently vacated: seeking new occupant
by Salamander 10 Jan 2018, 14:26
As someone who's been really critical of him over the past 2 years, I think this is a really good move for Kvyat. A low pressure environment that keeps his foot in the door like this will do wonders for rebuilding his confidence and possibly getting him back in a decent race seat. Even if it doesn't, though, 'Ferrari F1 test driver' is never a bad thing to have on your CV. I think things are starting to look up again for him. :)

Klon wrote:I am most British
Normal32 wrote:i am most British

Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing I wouldn't be in Formula 1.
Everything's great.
I'm not surprised about anything.
by mario 10 Jan 2018, 21:37
Salamander wrote:As someone who's been really critical of him over the past 2 years, I think this is a really good move for Kvyat. A low pressure environment that keeps his foot in the door like this will do wonders for rebuilding his confidence and possibly getting him back in a decent race seat. Even if it doesn't, though, 'Ferrari F1 test driver' is never a bad thing to have on your CV. I think things are starting to look up again for him. :)

At the very least, you would presume that it opens up opportunities to race in the WEC given Ferrari's customer GT teams. It does indeed look like a good opportunity for him to take stock and rebuild himself after the difficulties he had in 2017, whilst at the same time giving him options to explore outside of F1.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by Rob Dylan 11 Jan 2018, 08:37
I agree with pretty much everything Salamander says.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by Spectoremg 11 Jan 2018, 20:37
tommykl wrote:http://www.f1i.fr/infos/kvyat-rejoint-ferrari/

Daniil has found himself a job as simulator and development driver for Ferrari, the job that Jean-Éric Vergne used to have. It's not especially conducive to getting him an actual race drive any time soon, but it's something!

This is a great move for Daniil - somewhere where he'll be genuinely valued.
by Klon 13 Jan 2018, 12:15
I would not even discount it being helpful in acquiring a F1 seat. Remember, Gutierrez had a similar role and Ferrari's influence got him a drive with Haas because Ferrari wanted the Mexican dollar. Russia is an even bigger market. I can easily see Ferrari influencing Sauber to take Daniil once Leclerc's entry course into F1 is done.

I CAN'T SEE THE FUTURE!
by mario 13 Jan 2018, 20:53
Klon wrote:I would not even discount it being helpful in acquiring a F1 seat. Remember, Gutierrez had a similar role and Ferrari's influence got him a drive with Haas because Ferrari wanted the Mexican dollar. Russia is an even bigger market. I can easily see Ferrari influencing Sauber to take Daniil once Leclerc's entry course into F1 is done.

I think it is more likely that, if a seat were to become available at Sauber, Giovinazzi would get the place instead of Kvyat. Ericsson implied that Ferrari had tried to have him pushed out out in favour of Giovinazzi, with Sauber eventually compromising instead on giving Giovinazzi the reserve role with opportunities to drive the car in Friday practise sessions.

It's true that Gutierrez could exploit that move, but on the other hand he came with considerably more sponsorship than Kvyat can potentially raise and at a time when Ferrari did not have multiple potential up and coming drivers to choose from.

However, what might help would be if Haas did, as they've intimated they are open to, were to accept branding from the wider Fiat Chrysler Group and rebranded their engine (perhaps as a Maserati unit) - then, perhaps, if Ferrari sought to place a driver there and Giovinazzi was already committed at Sauber, Kvyat could have an opportunity there.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by dr-baker 16 Jan 2018, 11:37
AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:https://twitter.com/WilliamsRacing/status/953222201678983168

It's all over, the Kubica Hype Train has derailed definitely

With Kubica as development driver, there is a chance he may stand in for one of the drivers at some point? Just as Paul do Tests did last season?

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by Rob Dylan 17 Jan 2018, 11:51
I'm not a member of the "I hate Sirotkin because he got the drive instead of my favourite driver waah Sirotkin is the worst" club, buuuuut.....

This whole thing does come across even to me as a mean-spirited publicity stunt to get some attention to Williams. For a team that was "assessing its options" for a driver, they sure did a lot of hyping up of Robert. I can totally understand why some people feel slapped in the face after about three months or so of the Kubica hype train, for the team to then not even pick him.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by mario 17 Jan 2018, 19:43
Rob Dylan wrote:I'm not a member of the "I hate Sirotkin because he got the drive instead of my favourite driver waah Sirotkin is the worst" club, buuuuut.....

This whole thing does come across even to me as a mean-spirited publicity stunt to get some attention to Williams. For a team that was "assessing its options" for a driver, they sure did a lot of hyping up of Robert. I can totally understand why some people feel slapped in the face after about three months or so of the Kubica hype train, for the team to then not even pick him.

Mark Hughes, over at Motorsport Magazine, has suggested a different reason - that Williams, wanting to secure a top line driver but being unable to offer the current top line drivers in the sport any compelling reason to join them, decided to take a major gamble on Kubica and perhaps overcommitted to the idea of running him after the initial tests in older cars seemed to provide compelling results.

When the results of the test came in from Abu Dhabi and the results from Kubica's test performance proved to be difficult to interpret and did not clearly demonstrate that he was capable of the performances they'd hoped for, it seems that they were then perhaps left scrambling a bit to find a replacement. At the moment, I would be inclined to suggest that it sounds more like poor planning on the part of Williams in case that gamble they were making did not work out as hoped.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by SuzukiSwift 18 Jan 2018, 19:16
This has got to be one of the least talented and experienced Williams pairings ever, IMO. I'd be interested in hearing what you guys have to say though. In terms of skill and experience I seriously think only '77 was worse.
Last edited by SuzukiSwift on 18 Jan 2018, 19:56, edited 1 time in total.
by Salamander 18 Jan 2018, 19:28
Sirotkin is legitimately good - he isn't that 18-year old kid Sauber tried to stick in a car purely for money anymore. He finished 3rd in his debut season in GP2, that level of immediate competitiveness is never a bad sign. Stroll also still has a huge amount of potential in him I believe. It's a bit silly in my opinion to go ahead and call this the least talented driver pairing in Williams history when both drivers are still at the very beginnings of their career.

I mean, looking back to say, early 1982, you could've also called into question Williams' driver lineup at the time, having had Alan Jones retire at the end of 1981, and then Carlos Reutemann quit 2 races into the season as well. It left the team with a still relatively unproven Keke Rosberg and Derek Daly as their pairing - while Daly was quite disappointing, Rosberg would prove himself to be one of the star drivers of the 80s.

Klon wrote:I am most British
Normal32 wrote:i am most British

Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing I wouldn't be in Formula 1.
Everything's great.
I'm not surprised about anything.

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