We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread)

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good_Ralf
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We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread)

Post by good_Ralf »

I remember the days when we were opening and locking these threads more than a week before the Grand Prix itself, even having picks for ROTR as early as Friday... good times.

So F1 is at Hockenheim this weekend, a track which is supposedly rubbish with everyone going on about how much better the old Hockenheim circuit was, seemingly forgetting how OP DRS would be there :facepalm:

Watching FP2, looks like it's going to be close between the Big 3 teams, if it's hot on Sunday, my money's on Ferrari Vettel winning. Haas and Leclerc have been looking good in free practice, hoping they'll repeat that for the following two days. But there's a chance of rain hitting qualifying, which could mix up things, plus the Honey Badger is starting at the back. There might even be a bit of drizzle come race day.

As for the F2/GP3, everyone's doing the same amount of races as Santino Ferrucci will be (I know, I'll make my exit now :deletraz: ).
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

Big shame about Ricciardo's penalty. Things always seem to go the way of HAM and VET and it almost seems effortless for them to avoid reliability and have a smooth season. Ah well, at least Red Bull appears to have pace. A Verstappen win might just be the thing this season needs to keep it interesting---Vettel and Hamilton are getting a little too far away than I would like them to be from the rest of the pack.
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mario
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by mario »

Rob Dylan wrote:Big shame about Ricciardo's penalty. Things always seem to go the way of HAM and VET and it almost seems effortless for them to avoid reliability and have a smooth season. Ah well, at least Red Bull appears to have pace. A Verstappen win might just be the thing this season needs to keep it interesting---Vettel and Hamilton are getting a little too far away than I would like them to be from the rest of the pack.

Hamilton did have a DNF just two races ago...

It does look as if Red Bull are competitive, but the big question is whether it is just a case of Ferrari and Mercedes not having turned the engines right up yet - especially Ferrari, given that the upturn in form of their customer teams does seem to be underlining the feeling that they are now the ones with the most powerful power unit. There is talk of possible thunderstorms on Saturday afternoon though, which might help Red Bull if it helps partially nullify the power advantage of Ferrari and Mercedes.
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good_Ralf
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by good_Ralf »

mario wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:Big shame about Ricciardo's penalty. Things always seem to go the way of HAM and VET and it almost seems effortless for them to avoid reliability and have a smooth season. Ah well, at least Red Bull appears to have pace. A Verstappen win might just be the thing this season needs to keep it interesting---Vettel and Hamilton are getting a little too far away than I would like them to be from the rest of the pack.

Hamilton did have a DNF just two races ago...


Although Austria did break the trend Rob and I have brought up from time to time, since the start of 2017, Vettel and Hamilton have suffered 1 race-ending problem/failure each, the Finns have had 3 each, Max 5 and Daniel 6.

Of course it's different when we're comparing the reliability of the cars from different teams, but when one driver in a team can get through a whole season with just 1 failure or none at all, but his teammate has 3 or 4, it's simply frustrating. Especially when it's the no.1 driver who generally has it trouble-free, as has been the case at Mercedes and Ferrari lately, or in previous years, (this might be seen as contentious) Red Bull in 2013 or Ferrari in 2002. I know that with regards to the 2 historical examples I chose, the drivers in those two teams weren't closely matched pace-wise necessarily, but you get my point.
Check out the position of the sun on 2 August at 20:08 in my garden

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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

Yeah I mean it in the way Ralf has said. Austria was an exception that proves the rule, I think.

Anyway, Red Bull aren't talking themselves up, and now with two contracts signed, might we see a rejuvenated pair of Mercedes drivers? There does seem to have been a little bit of an overreaction in the world champions as their dominance has begun to wane, so these signings may have been done early just to get some positive PR within and without the team.
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by good_Ralf »

A meh first two-thirds, a great final third of the race, but although Hamilton drove well, I can't help but be annoyed at how Bottas and Kimi have been the denied the top spot once again, especially with team orders being imposed at Mercedes after the Safety Car.
Still, this opens the championship up nicely, Ferrari will be competitive in Hungary given there's 30+ temperatures which is normally a given there, and the abundance of medium-to-high speed corners will be beneficial to Red Bull.
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by Barbazza »

good_Ralf wrote:A meh first two-thirds, a great final third of the race, but although Hamilton drove well, I can't help but be annoyed at how Bottas and Kimi have been the denied the top spot once again, especially with team orders being imposed at Mercedes after the Safety Car.


Yes, that. A lucky Hamilton win masking the fact that either (most likely) Bottas or Kimi could have won that. I couldn't face the Sky F1 wankfest that is no doubt ensuing, given that Lewis's win is probably now being called 'the greatest EVAH!' and Christian Horner isn't being asked any difficult questions like 'How do you feel about getting Max's strategy completely wrong and getting away with it?' or 'Why does Daniel's car keep breaking down now?'

Still, Brendon got a point - that was by far the best thing about that race! (Also probably to be ignored by Sky: Gasly made a complete arse of that!)
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by Fetzie »

Vettel is going to need a really strong finish in Hungary after this, or he'll be risking slipping into another run of sub-optimal to bad results like he did last year which cost him the championship.
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by mario »

good_Ralf wrote:A meh first two-thirds, a great final third of the race, but although Hamilton drove well, I can't help but be annoyed at how Bottas and Kimi have been the denied the top spot once again, especially with team orders being imposed at Mercedes after the Safety Car.
Still, this opens the championship up nicely, Ferrari will be competitive in Hungary given there's 30+ temperatures which is normally a given there, and the abundance of medium-to-high speed corners will be beneficial to Red Bull.

Mind you, although there may have been an element of it being down to being ordered to hold station, from the onboard shots it did look as Bottas was struggling with quite bad understeer.

Even without team orders, it did look as if Bottas just didn't have that much confidence in the front end of his car - he seemed to have trouble getting his front tyres warmed up at the restart, so even without those orders I suspect that Hamilton would have bolted away from him by the time that he got his tyres up to temperature (I wonder if that might also be why Bottas generally tends to be a little sluggish in the opening laps of a race).

Fetzie wrote:Vettel is going to need a really strong finish in Hungary after this, or he'll be risking slipping into another run of sub-optimal to bad results like he did last year which cost him the championship.

On balance, it does still feel like it is Vettel's championship to lose though - they do seem to have a fairly clear power advantage now, especially in qualifying trim, and overall their car does look like it has a slight edge over Mercedes's car.

I suspect that Vettel will probably still be fairly confident for Hungary, though the only slight issue might be Red Bull's pace - it is possible they could be a threat, though I suspect that, even if the extra grunt of Ferrari's engine is not quite as effective here, it'll still be enough to put them ahead in qualifying and allow them to control the race from there.
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by Alextrax52 »

Barbazza wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:A meh first two-thirds, a great final third of the race, but although Hamilton drove well, I can't help but be annoyed at how Bottas and Kimi have been the denied the top spot once again, especially with team orders being imposed at Mercedes after the Safety Car.


Yes, that. A lucky Hamilton win masking the fact that either (most likely) Bottas or Kimi could have won that. I couldn't face the Sky F1 wankfest that is no doubt ensuing, given that Lewis's win is probably now being called 'the greatest EVAH!' and Christian Horner isn't being asked any difficult questions like 'How do you feel about getting Max's strategy completely wrong and getting away with it?' or 'Why does Daniel's car keep breaking down now?'


Mate it's just as bad when Hamilton doesn't win, They'll just spend their time dissecting the reasons why. And yes Hamilton drove a good race but don't try and tell me that it was outstanding.

Anyway as much as I wanted to scratch my eyes out at Mercedes team orders it did get me thinking if they just have a ruthlessness that Ferrari lack. Even with Sebastian out they were adamant that the man with the better chances of winning the drivers crown would win the race. I haven't seen that from Ferrari since the Schumacher era. If that ruthlessness existed the team orders would have been applied immediately and Raikkonen would have been demanded to hand 2nd to Vettel in Austria
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by Fetzie »

Hamilton has been summoned to the stewards to explain his sudden departure from the pitlane.

exit: Reprimanded but no further action required.
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by Aguvazk »

Just finish to see the race... Man, heartbraking mistake for Vettel! Hamilton had a really good race, but... Come on, the "2 tier system" is awful, no one oppose resistance to the Mercedes. Force India with a good race, just like Baku (in fact Hamilton won in Baku, when that seems distant to happen, just like today) and Singapore... Hmmm, maybe he's really blessed... :shock:
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by Miguel98 »

Ferrari completelly backfired themselves here: the early pitstop by Kimi - which I assumed at the start to be a good decision - completelly backfired, and it severelly compromised Vettel's race. Then the team took too long to apply team orders, and when it did, both car's tyres had severelly overheated, which probably led to Vettel's mistake later on as he had to push harder. Obviously, Seb's mistake might have costed him more than the race...

The worst thing about the strats call of the race was when Lewis pitted though: if Kimi had to stop, why didn't Ferrari just cover Lewis off immediatelly? Kimi could've still been ahead when he exited pitroad, and it would cover a scenario where Lewis would join the fight for the lead. Then Kimi's restart was terrible and he couldn't challenge Bottas, and the minute he couldn't challenge Valtteri, the race was over.

I mean, it was a top drive by Lewis, but he did have some luck. And it also doesn't help that each of the top 3 teams, if they start 20th, the worst result they can get is 6th on any track that isn't Monaco or Hungaroring.
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by Barbazza »

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Mate it's just as bad when Hamilton doesn't win, They'll just spend their time dissecting the reasons why. And yes Hamilton drove a good race but don't try and tell me that it was outstanding...


That is true. I did briefly switch back to see them all sheltering from the downpour. I wish someone had made them stand outside - a lightning strike might even have given Di Resta a personality.
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by Barbazza »

Miguel98 wrote:I mean, it was a top drive by Lewis, but he did have some luck. And it also doesn't help that each of the top 3 teams, if they start 20th, the worst result they can get is 6th on any track that isn't Monaco or Hungaroring.


That's the most annoying thing about this season and made the raving about Lewis 'carving his way through the field' (why is it always 'carving'?) at the beginning even less justified. Once Ricciardo and Vettel were out a Top 4 finish was never out of the question. I must admit that I was willing the rain to bucket down once Sainz became the last one left on Inters, that was the only way we would have got a different winner.
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

Rob Dylan last week wrote:Big shame about Ricciardo's penalty. Things always seem to go the way of HAM and VET and it almost seems effortless for them to avoid reliability and have a smooth season. Ah well, at least Red Bull appears to have pace. A Verstappen win might just be the thing this season needs to keep it interesting---Vettel and Hamilton are getting a little too far away than I would like them to be from the rest of the pack.
I suppose I should eat a slice of humble pie after this weekend just passed! :mrgreen:

Let's just hope that those won't be the only retirements from Hamilton or Vettel this season. Keep the unpredictability coming!
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Re: We've Forgotten Something 2 (German GP Discussion Thread

Post by Yannick »

Vettel crashing out in front of his home crowd right in the middle of Motodrom at Hockenheim makes this race a memorable erstwhile swan song for the German Grand Prix. That may have been tough luck for him but other champions have made similar mistakes under pressure at Hockenheim before, yet most did it back when the old forest straights were still in place.
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