The 2019 Silly Season thread

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Salamander
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Salamander »

mario wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Autosport is reporting that there is the possibility of an Alonso return in 2020. Likely that in 2019, Alonso will complete the sportscar megaseason, and try to incorporate an IndyCar drive around his Toyota commitment.

I would have thought that is unlikely though - I get the sense that, given that he knows the top seats at most teams are now locked out for years, and therefore whatever happens he'd probably be in the same place as he is now if he came back in 2020, he's made up his mind to leave for good.

IceG wrote:When was the last time McLaren did not have a current or former F1 world champion driving for the team?

I guess that would be 2008, when you had Hamilton and Kovalainen, even if Hamilton did win the title that season - before that, you have the period from 2002 to 2006 when they had Raikkonen, de la Rosa, Wurz, Coulthard and Montoya all drive for them.


Discounting any WDCs takes you back to 1981 with John Watson and Andrea de Cesaris. Though, if you wanted to be pedantic, I suppose you could count the 1995 Pacific GP with Mark Blundell/Jan Magnussen, and Phillippe Alliot/Martin Brundle at Hungary 1994.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Paul Hayes »

Interesting that he has kept the door open to returning in his statement - I can't believe we'll see him back in F1 though, particularly not at McLaren! I also don't believe his claims that he'll have fond memories of the team...

I've never been a fan of Alonso, but I have developed a sort of grudging respect for him over the years. I hope he does get to add the Indy 500 to his collection.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

  • Mercedes never wanted him because they didn't want a driver who wanted a team to be their team.
  • He left Ferrari.
  • Red Bull always had their own programme.
2010 and '12 are the most painful since they're so close, but he could've won so many championships... but it is kind of his fault. Or I'm just trying to come up with a reason it's not really sad.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Nessafox »

So Alonso holds the honour of being the last Minardi driver to retire.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by mario »

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
  • Mercedes never wanted him because they didn't want a driver who wanted a team to be their team.
  • He left Ferrari.
  • Red Bull always had their own programme.
2010 and '12 are the most painful since they're so close, but he could've won so many championships... but it is kind of his fault. Or I'm just trying to come up with a reason it's not really sad.

Some have suggested that Marchionne pushed Alonso into leaving Ferrari because he wanted to stamp his authority on the team by imposing his driver choice on it, and because Alonso was too closely associated with the old management of the team (especially Domenicali, whom Alonso defended when he was sacked).

As you say, it is a situation where, on the one hand, there is a semi-tragic element given his heroics in 2010, and especially 2012, as in the latter case it felt like he dragged the car to the front by sheer force of will alone. On the other hand, the moves he's made in his career rarely seem to have worked out - things spiralling out of control in 2007, that decision many years ago to turn down both Honda - before it was transformed into Brawn, and then Mercedes - and Red Bull to go to Ferrari, which just never worked out, followed by the gamble with McLaren and moving there at the point where the team has begun to tear itself apart with infighting.

In terms of talent and ability on the track, whilst some might cite some of his performances from 2012 as amongst his best, even now that ferocity and strength of character shows - the fighting spirit in Australia, although it proved to be a false dawn for McLaren this year, or the way that commentators talked about how, at Le Mans, they saw him cutting through the traffic stunningly quickly and in a way that put the regular veteran drivers to shame.

Yet, at the same time, you are right that there have been other aspects of his character and events around him that have also worked against him - the questions over the potential damage caused within a team by his public criticism, the controversies and strained relationships and a number of other factors does mean that, at times, it feels as if the biggest challenger he had to face was the more negative side of his character, and sometimes a battle that he didn't always win.

In many ways, he really is a tragic figure - a great driver, but also a flawed one, though in many ways that kind of makes him a more fascinating character for it.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

To me, all talk of a 2020 return feels about as likely as Mika Häkkinen's 'sabatical'. This will be Alonso's last season, and I'm so glad I got to see it at least live in person. Now all we need is a shock podium before the end of the season---c'mon Nando!


Although I've been a fan of him ever since 2011 (he was still young and in his very petulant period when I first started following F1, and I disliked him for it), I'll agree that he can be attributed for much of the tragedy in his career choices. But he really was great, and I'd still rate him better than any of the champions that have come since him. His leaving is absolutely F1's loss.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by This Could Be You »

Rob Dylan wrote:To me, all talk of a 2020 return feels about as likely as Mika Häkkinen's 'sabatical'.

So what you're saying is that Mclaren will run a Hakkinen/Alonso lineup in 2020? :P
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Nessafox »

This Could Be You wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:To me, all talk of a 2020 return feels about as likely as Mika Häkkinen's 'sabatical'.

So what you're saying is that Mclaren will run a Hakkinen/Alonso lineup in 2020? :P

Well i'd love to see Hakkinen in Indycar or Le Mans ;)
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by IceG »

Sainz to McLaren https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sain ... 57/?nrt=54

Could Raikkonen follow him...?

Could Kubica get a drive at Williams...?
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Pacific Edge »

A bit "meh" for Sainz. Unless James Key has an epic "Eureka" moment about the design of next years car, and/or Renault have a similar moment about next year's engine, 2019 could be a LONG season for Sainz. A q though, is Sainz still part of the RB program, and IF so, will we also be seeing RB logos somewhere on the Mac next year? Frankly, as things are now, I think he should start looking at his 2020 drive quite soon, and hope he can drag the McLaren to some decent results

EDIT: You know, it's a pity we didn't see something REALLY left field like Ferrari snapping him up to replace Raikonnen, I think he could have been a good foil for Vettel so Leclerc can continue to develop his racecraft at Sauber
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

So Sainz to McLaren. That basically means that Hulkenberg will partner Ricciardo at Renault, though I don't know who will partner Sainz at McLaren. It also means that Gasly is a shoe-in for Red Bull, though I really doubt that it will be a good idea considering his lack of experience. I've been proven wrong on that before, though.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Pacific Edge »

ESPN F1 posted this, could just be idle gossip and journos looking for stuff to write (or Vergne making this up himself). Make of it what you will.

http://espn.com/f1/story/_/id/24406739/jean-eric-vergne-contacted-2019-formula-one-seat
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

I wonder where though? Are we to assume that the Red Bull family have approached him for the Toro Rosso role, for example if Gasly were being promoted? He has the credentials after winning Formula E, so I won't be complaining. Even in a Toro Rosso again, it would be good to see Vergne back again.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Pacific Edge »

Unless RBR are going to take a punt. I think it may still be too early to promote Gasly, it's possible RBR could offer Vergne a 1 year contract while Gasly's development/evaluation continues
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Pacific Edge »

Ok, so Gasly gets the seat while Sainz languishes at McLaren, and JEV gets a minor seat or races Formula E. Brave move by Marko and Horner , I personally wouldn't hire Gasly so soon, but they have a better insight. Will be interesting to see how he goes at the top flight, and compares to Max.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Samster »

There was a time Red Bull was my favourite team. Now I have no reason at all to root for them now, been heading that way ever since they began to become Golden Balls' team.

I just still don't rate Gasly much at all, other than the handful of great results where conditions suit the Torro Rosso, he's been quite average, I don't get that feeling he's consistently at the limit of what his car is capable of like say Leclerc has been doing. Yet the latter is still only looking 50/50 to get a Ferrari drive next season. Silly Season really frustrates me sometimes. :facepalm:
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

Yeah, I'm seeing shades of 2014 here, where Red Bull hired Kvyat very quickly from Toro Rosso to the big team, but after a year or two ended up removing him for "the next big thing". Gasly was never absolutely rated by Red Bull when trying to get into F1, and I doubt his position will be very secure the moment a successor comes into the junior team. I can honestly see someone like Ticktum or whomever Red Bull picks getting all the attention. Pierre will have to really shine in the next season if he wants a secure top seat.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Nessafox »

i honestly don't think sainz would have fared better. So i'm still giving Gasly an honest chance.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by mario »

Pacific 777 wrote:Ok, so Gasly gets the seat while Sainz languishes at McLaren, and JEV gets a minor seat or races Formula E. Brave move by Marko and Horner , I personally wouldn't hire Gasly so soon, but they have a better insight. Will be interesting to see how he goes at the top flight, and compares to Max.

There is one incentive to hire Gasly, which is his knowledge of the current performance of Honda's engine - that might give them a slight advantage in terms of integrating the Honda engine next year.

The other motivation might be to pick a driver whom they suspect isn't going to present too much of a threat to Verstappen, keeping him happy and making him a rather unsubtle No.1 driver at that team (like some other posters here, Gasly hasn't really come across as being that remarkable).

Like This, I do wonder whether any other driver would fare that much better, because I expect that the team is going to be throwing its weight behind Verstappen now that he is the "next bright thing" for the team.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by IceG »

Taking Gasly in place of Sainz is surely an admission that RBR see the driver's championship as more important than the constructor's championship, i.e. 2019 is going to be all about Verstappen.

Given the past hype about the successes of the RBR young driver's programme, it is interesting to see that they were really left with Hobson's choice. I hope Gasly is able to challenge Verstappen but that, in and of itself, is going to give Horner/Marko some issues. Verstappen does not strike me as the sort of driver who is mature enough to handle Gasly out-performing him. And RBR have a long history of letting team-mates throw points away by crashing into each other.

Meanwhile, over at Toro Rosso, there are two seats available. Hartley has done nothing to justify a second season. TR will need a mature driver to support whichever rookie they introduce. So JEV or Kvyat to replace Gasly? Or maybe even Wehrlein who struck me as a man whose talent was hidden by the car?
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Collieafc »

Rob Dylan wrote:Yeah, I'm seeing shades of 2014 here, where Red Bull hired Kvyat very quickly from Toro Rosso to the big team, but after a year or two ended up removing him for "the next big thing". Gasly was never absolutely rated by Red Bull when trying to get into F1, and I doubt his position will be very secure the moment a successor comes into the junior team.


This was my first thought as well. And like Kvyat, Gasly has been promoted due to an unexpected departure of a top driver - its all to familiar, this. Which leads me to...

IceG wrote:Given the past hype about the successes of the RBR young driver's programme, it is interesting to see that they were really left with Hobson's choice. I hope Gasly is able to challenge Verstappen but that, in and of itself, is going to give Horner/Marko some issues. Verstappen does not strike me as the sort of driver who is mature enough to handle Gasly out-performing him. And RBR have a long history of letting team-mates throw points away by crashing into each other.


I dont think it helped their cause that Red Bull had a slew of reasonably good drivers at almost the same time (Vettel, Riccardo, JEV, Verstappen, Sainz) and there just wasnt enough seats for all, and as a result theres a bit of a vacuum in talent while those who didnt get the top team have moved on. As for RB next year it will be interesting to watch - Riccardo was in a similar position with everyone expecting him to play a supporting roll to Red Bulls then golden boy Vettel, only for Riccardo to out-perform Vettel all the way out the door. The crashes though are probably going to get ever more frequent with such young drivers.

As for replacing Riccardo, I would also agree that Red Bull didnt really have much choice. Ferrari want Raikkonen and he seems happy there, while Horner declared they didnt want Alonso, who was realistically the only other top tier choice. RB were trying to get rid of Hartley and it seems hes being kept at TR solely because there just isnt any other driver to replace that is easily available (Hulk maybe at a push?). As for Toro Rosso, Norris will be protected by Mclaren and Perez by FI. It would be a step down for Perez,Ocon and just about any driver bar Wierlein. Unless Toro Rosso start to reinvent themselves as the second chance saloon that Sauber once were.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by AdrianBelmonte_ »

All this talk is pointless, we already know who's going to Toro Rosso...

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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138206/red-bull-denies-alonso-2019-seat-offer-claim

So Alonso saying that Red Bull offered him a seat!? Red Bull denying :D


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138215/alonso-hopes-for-apology-from-red-bull

So Red Bull not only deny the claims, but even go so far as to criticise Alonso proper like. Then Alonso's demanding an apology. Top silly season guys, keep it up!
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by SuzukiSwift »

Pacific 777 wrote:Ok, so Gasly gets the seat while Sainz languishes at McLaren, and JEV gets a minor seat or races Formula E. Brave move by Marko and Horner , I personally wouldn't hire Gasly so soon, but they have a better insight. Will be interesting to see how he goes at the top flight, and compares to Max.


Yeah Gasly is not ready, and I think the entire team will suffer as a result of a lack of experience between both drivers.

I am not overly fond of RBR though. They are even more unlikeable than McLaren is.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by SuzukiSwift »

Vandoorne is likely finished at this rate...
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Ataxia »

SuzukiSwift wrote:
Pacific 777 wrote:Ok, so Gasly gets the seat while Sainz languishes at McLaren, and JEV gets a minor seat or races Formula E. Brave move by Marko and Horner , I personally wouldn't hire Gasly so soon, but they have a better insight. Will be interesting to see how he goes at the top flight, and compares to Max.


Yeah Gasly is not ready, and I think the entire team will suffer as a result of a lack of experience between both drivers.


I'd argue the opposite. Gasly's had about the same amount of time at Toro Rosso as Vettel and Verstappen. He's proven capable of getting the big results, he's blown Hartley (a very capable driver) into the weeds, and I think he's earned this. The general biggest endorsement of Sainz I see is "oh he matched Verstappen sometimes". I don't rate him, I think Gasly's the far better prospect.

Silly season's going to get a bit sillier. It seems that Raikkonen's staying at Ferrari, with Leclerc moving to Haas and Sauber potentially putting Giovinazzi in the second car. They've been trying to find an alternative to Ericsson, but his excellent backing's proving to be a stumbling block .

McLaren's second seat is between Ocon and Norris, and Williams will apparently choose two between Sirotkin, Markelov and Russell. Toro Rosso is anyone's guess at this stage.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by WeirdKerr »

Interesting Rumour ive heard...

Ocon to Mclaren and bringing Mercedes engines and R.P.F.I.will get the renault engines.....
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by AdrianBelmonte_ »

WeirdKerr wrote:Interesting Rumour ive heard...

Ocon to Mclaren and bringing Mercedes engines and R.P.F.I.will get the renault engines.....


It isn't crazy, but i can't see this happening though, don't know why
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by sswishbone »

That rumour won't happen unless Mercedes jettison their evaluation of RPFI being a junior team.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Ataxia »

sswishbone wrote:That rumour won't happen unless Mercedes jettison their evaluation of RPFI being a junior team.


Exactly, and a good chunk of Stroll Sr's frustration with Williams is as a result of him pushing for a greater technical tie-up with Mercedes, which obviously Williams don't want to do.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

https://www.motorsport.com/super-formula/news/ticktum-closer-to-super-formula-move-for-2019/3166167/

Ok, now I'm really confused. If Ticktum's not at Toro Rosso next year, who the hell will be?
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by AdrianBelmonte_ »

Rob Dylan wrote:If Ticktum's not at Toro Rosso next year, who the hell will be?


Will Stevens
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by This Could Be You »

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:If Ticktum's not at Toro Rosso next year, who the hell will be?


Will Stevens

Nah- Toro Rosso have some Merhi-ment to look forward to ;)
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Klon »

This Could Be You wrote:
AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:If Ticktum's not at Toro Rosso next year, who the hell will be?


Will Stevens

Nah- Toro Rosso have some Merhi-ment to look forward to ;)


You uneducated plebians do not get it. This is clearly meant to the door to the Rubens Barrichello comeback we all need.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Nuppiz »

Klon wrote:
This Could Be You wrote:
AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:
Will Stevens

Nah- Toro Rosso have some Merhi-ment to look forward to ;)


You uneducated plebians do not get it. This is clearly meant to the door to the Nigel Mansell comeback we all need.

Fix'd.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by dr-baker »

Surely HWNSNBM fits into the picture somewhere?
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by WeirdKerr »

dr-baker wrote:Surely HWNSNBM fits into the picture somewhere?


:dance:
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by AdrianBelmonte_ »

Klon wrote:
This Could Be You wrote:
AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:Will Stevens

Nah- Toro Rosso have some Merhi-ment to look forward to ;)


You uneducated plebians do not get it. This is clearly meant to the door to the Jaime Alguersuari comeback we all need.


Fixed
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

I'll bet a certain Austrian has been orchestrating this entire thing!
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