The place for speaking your mind on current goings-on in F1
by Ataxia 05 Nov 2018, 22:02
Let's open this bad boy, shall we?

I'm gonna be a bastard and post this here, the shame of it has subsided somewhat...

you gotta eat the lettuce
by Rob Dylan 05 Nov 2018, 22:24
Nice Ataxia, very nice. Keep up the good work!

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by yannicksamlad 06 Nov 2018, 13:23
Looking forward to it; the weather has some of those traditional heavy showers forecast , I like the track , and there should be some good battles. Oddly, whilst every time we 'go' to Hockenheim there is a lot of comments about the old track , that doesnt happen so much with Interlagos . Despite the old track being right there ( or under the grandstands) . And despite it being a really good track at the time ( the first corners would all be flat nowadays, with nothing much for the driver to do except hope nothing fails, so it probably wouldnt be much good now, although there would be some other corners added)

I started supporting Emmo in 1976 (3 points )....missed 75, 74, 73, 72...
by mario 06 Nov 2018, 18:27
yannicksamlad wrote:Looking forward to it; the weather has some of those traditional heavy showers forecast , I like the track , and there should be some good battles. Oddly, whilst every time we 'go' to Hockenheim there is a lot of comments about the old track , that doesnt happen so much with Interlagos . Despite the old track being right there ( or under the grandstands) . And despite it being a really good track at the time ( the first corners would all be flat nowadays, with nothing much for the driver to do except hope nothing fails, so it probably wouldnt be much good now, although there would be some other corners added)

In the case of Interlagos, there are going to be comparatively fewer individuals who'd remember what the old circuit was like - whilst the last race at the old Hockenheim circuit was in 2001, the last race at the old layout in Interlagos was in 1980 (due to the Brazilian GP moving to Jacarepaguá from 1981 to 1989).

In fact, there were not that many races held at the old Interlagos circuit - only seven official races, plus one non-championship race - and most of those races occurred in the 1970s in an era when the sport had a lower media profile (quite a few nations might have only shown highlights of the races, not the full race).

In some ways, the Brazilian GP was possibly more associated with Jacarepaguá in the early 1990s than the old Interlagos circuit - there had been ten races in Jacarepaguá by 1990, three more than at Interlagos. Meanwhile, the more dominant part of the fan base these days grew up in the 1990s and would have no idea what happened at Interlagos in the past - the configuration they see now is the configuration they've always seen, so to them that is the "normal" configuration.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by yannicksamlad 07 Nov 2018, 11:46
mario wrote:
In fact, there were not that many races held at the old Interlagos circuit - only seven official races, plus one non-championship race - and most of those races occurred in the 1970s in an era when the sport had a lower media profile (quite a few nations might have only shown highlights of the races, not the full race).

In some ways, the Brazilian GP was possibly more associated with Jacarepaguá in the early 1990s than the old Interlagos circuit - there had been ten races in Jacarepaguá by 1990, three more than at Interlagos. Meanwhile, the more dominant part of the fan base these days grew up in the 1990s and would have no idea what happened at Interlagos in the past - the configuration they see now is the configuration they've always seen, so to them that is the "normal" configuration.


True - and I hadnt really realised how many races we had at Jacarepaguá. ( Which I quite liked ) . Nostalgia isnt what it used to be
Interlagos looks like a great place for spectators though - in old and new format .

I started supporting Emmo in 1976 (3 points )....missed 75, 74, 73, 72...
by AdrianBelmonte_ 09 Nov 2018, 19:13
Pacific 777 wrote:http://espn.com/f1/story/_/id/25223887/daniel-ricciardo-set-brazilian-grand-prix-grid-penalty

Ricciardo to get a grid penalty for changing a turbo. Just can't catch a break...


Image

#FoxesFansHooligans

#JusticeForFuego
by dr-baker 09 Nov 2018, 21:23
AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:
Pacific 777 wrote:http://espn.com/f1/story/_/id/25223887/daniel-ricciardo-set-brazilian-grand-prix-grid-penalty

Ricciardo to get a grid penalty for changing a turbo. Just can't catch a break...


Image

If he didn't have bad luck, he wouldn't have any luck at all...

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by Rob Dylan 10 Nov 2018, 11:04
The "cursed by gypsies" award for this year has an easy winner, I guess :D Honestly, this must be one of the longest end-of-season runs for Daniel - he really is just counting the days until his contract ends and he can go get drunk for Christmas.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by Fetzie 10 Nov 2018, 17:56
Vettel has been referred to the stewards for keeping his engine running while on the weighbridge in Q2 (prevents them from getting a stable reading due to engine vibrations), and damaging the weighbridge when he then drove off it under his own power.

While disqualification from qualifying is a possibility, I don't know if they'd go that far. However, Vettel is clearly in deep *significant pause* trouble.
by mario 10 Nov 2018, 21:41
Fetzie wrote:Vettel has been referred to the stewards for keeping his engine running while on the weighbridge in Q2 (prevents them from getting a stable reading due to engine vibrations), and damaging the weighbridge when he then drove off it under his own power.

While disqualification from qualifying is a possibility, I don't know if they'd go that far. However, Vettel is clearly in deep *significant pause* trouble.

Or maybe not - the stewards have chosen to go with a reprimand and a fine, which is fairly low down on the scale of potential penalties that could have been applied.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by good_Ralf 10 Nov 2018, 22:53
What are people's thoughts on Hamilton not getting a penalty for blocking Sirotkin, that could've been a big shunt. I know Sergey was on an outlap so maybe it's understandable that Lewis wasn't punished, but taking a cynical point of view, I do wonder if it would be the same outcome for most other drivers. Plus Hamilton got in Kimi's way a little when Raikkonen was on a flying lap.

EDIT: I didn't touch on some details before making the original post, I guess Hamilton not being penalised is okay, but I'm still curious as to why he wasn't investigated.

Check out the position of the sun on 2 August at 20:08 in my garden

Allard Kalff in 1994 wrote:OH!! Schumacher in the wall! Right in front of us, Michael Schumacher is in the wall! He's hit the pitwall, he c... Ah, it's Jos Verstappen.
by Rob Dylan 11 Nov 2018, 09:38
Yeah, I'm honestly surprised there was no penalty action on either Vettel or Hamilton (though obviously the former was reprimanded and fined). Out-lap or not, Sergey was trying to get himself at the right point on the track for a good lap, and had every right to pass Hamilton imo. Add the fact that Hamilton was already in Kimi's way, it seems like he got off very easily.

Honestly, just drop the front row ten places each to 11th and 12th and give us an exciting race on Sunday :D

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by IceG 11 Nov 2018, 13:16
The Vettel; in car of that incident was telling on all sides...

Vettel arrives fast and just touches the cone, knocking it over. Vettel is gesticulating as the steward nonchalantly wanders over, clearly in no hurry, and takes his time moving the cone. Meanwhile the official is beckoning Vettel forward. Vettel moves forward under power onto the scales, the official makes the cutty cutty signal under his chin. and Vettel may have cut his engine (not sure). Vettel and the official continues to gesticulate while the weighing takes place. Then Vettel appears to start his engine, slides back a tad and after a moment moves off gently but under power.

The steward was clearly pi**ed at Vettel's arrival. The official was confusing in his communication before, during and after the incident. These would be reasons to cut Vettel some slack.

But, and it is a big but, this is a safety and regulatory issue. Vettel is a highly experienced racer - he lost his cool before arrival and made matters worse during the weighing. Had he remained calm, he would have got out faster and the officials would have some questions to answer... he had everything to lose and nothing to gain, the opposite of the stewards.

The pressure of failing, again, to win the championship is showing. I doubt he has another one in him. the temperament is all wrong and he over-reacts to small incidents (remember Baku?). I can see him retiring after 2019 and going to play at Indy/Le Mans with Alonso. Ferrari need to find a good second driver for 2020 now - Kimi will still be racing then of course :)

Meanwhile Hamilton looks to have at least one more championship in him before the Verstappen/Leclerc era takes over.
by good_Ralf 11 Nov 2018, 16:49
Just used a not-particularly-trustworthy statistical/mathematical model (it's based on the normal distribution if you're curious). Taking into account the number of points Ferrari and Mercedes have scored in each race, the probability of Ferrari scoring the 13 points over Mercedes tonight, to take the CC to Abby Dhabby is about 10%, to score the 56 points extra in the last two races overall is about 0.2%, which gives odds of 500 to 1. :ugeek:

Check out the position of the sun on 2 August at 20:08 in my garden

Allard Kalff in 1994 wrote:OH!! Schumacher in the wall! Right in front of us, Michael Schumacher is in the wall! He's hit the pitwall, he c... Ah, it's Jos Verstappen.
by Enforcer 11 Nov 2018, 18:38
Oh dear, James Hunt would have some colourful things to say about that.

Maybe he was trying to get Merc to owe him one.
by East Londoner 11 Nov 2018, 18:59
...ooooookay, Max has just powered his way into overall ROTR contention. Can't imagine the stewards are gonna be impressed by this, NASCAR-style "have at it boys" won't go down well in Formula One. :facepalm:

Ataxia wrote:Ali Dia was not one of the black trains, that's absurdly racist Kevin


WaffleCat wrote: Let's just say, I could probably last longer in bed than Haas in Interlagos.
by dinizintheoven 11 Nov 2018, 19:15
CarloSpace wrote:Is Sergio Canamasas driving out there for Force India today? :chilton:
RoTR all but sealed already I guess.

Strange you should say that - Jolyon Palmer said on the radio commentary that Can'tamasas punted him out of a GP2 race while being lapped in much the same way...

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by CarloSpace 11 Nov 2018, 19:54
dinizintheoven wrote:
CarloSpace wrote:Is Sergio Canamasas driving out there for Force India today? :chilton:
RoTR all but sealed already I guess.

Strange you should say that - Jolyon Palmer said on the radio commentary that Can'tamasas punted him out of a GP2 race while being lapped in much the same way...
That's what I was referring to ;) I didn't initially remember who it was with or which year and couldn't find anything on YouTube about the incident, so it's nice to know I wasn't imagining seeing the incident. And I also found footage of the incident: https://youtu.be/EKtlro2i9tw?t=1214
by Rob Dylan 11 Nov 2018, 21:28
Never thought I'd say the phrase "poor Max" but ended up doing so regardless :P and while I don't condone his actions post-race, I do enjoy all the drama that it's giving us. Gives a little entertainment to round off the season with :twisted:

But seriously, Verstappen is within a sizeable contention for 3rd in the drivers' championship, which is interesting to say the least. While the ball is firmly in Kimi's court, should the Finn have a horrid race or an incident in Abu Dhabi, Max feels much more likely to snatch the position than Valtteri does at this point.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by Barbazza 11 Nov 2018, 22:04
I missed all the post-race shenanigans as I watched the race on delay and fast forwarded through most of it (that's how much I care now) but let me say that I fully approve of Ocon invoking the spirit of Philippe Alliot. The fact that it was Max who was the victim in no way made it even funnier of course.
by dr-baker 11 Nov 2018, 23:20
No mentions of Senna and Irvine at Suzuka 1993?

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by lance_rambert 12 Nov 2018, 00:02
dr-baker wrote:No mentions of Senna and Irvine at Suzuka 1993?


Referring to the Piquet-Salazar fisticuffs makes more sense in this case because Max didn't punch Esteban in the face like Senna allegedly did to Irvine.
by mario 12 Nov 2018, 07:25
East Londoner wrote:...ooooookay, Max has just powered his way into overall ROTR contention. Can't imagine the stewards are gonna be impressed by this, NASCAR-style "have at it boys" won't go down well in Formula One. :facepalm:

And that has earned him two days worth of community service as a result - which, in some ways, does feel like an appropriate response as it should hopefully require Max to show a bit of contrition.

I have noticed something though, which is that there does seem to have been a bit of confusion about the sequence of events. Some have referred to Max lapping Ocon, which is probably because the snapshot of footage shown before the collision seemed to imply that was the case - however, in this instance Ocon was in fact unlapping himself from behind Max, with Max moving off line when braking for the first turn in order to defend against Ocon unlapping himself.

I do feel that detail is important, because it does paint a slightly different complexion on what was going on - whilst Ocon's move is still clumsy, at the same time it does then raise the question of why Max chose to defend so hard against another driver trying to unlap himself, as well as why he then chose to take such a tight line when he should have known that Ocon was still there.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by dr-baker 12 Nov 2018, 09:50
lance_rambert wrote:
dr-baker wrote:No mentions of Senna and Irvine at Suzuka 1993?


Referring to the Piquet-Salazar fisticuffs makes more sense in this case because Max didn't punch Esteban in the face like Senna allegedly did to Irvine.

OK, fair enough.

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by Rob Dylan 12 Nov 2018, 11:00
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139989/villeneuve-ocon-is-an-embarrassment

Controversial Jacques sticking his neck out on the line, yet again.

Jacques Villeneuve wrote:I thought he was very restrained in his reaction. He didn't even punch him!

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by UncreativeUsername37 12 Nov 2018, 12:23
Interlagos didn't even need rain to make a great, tense race this time :)

For me the collision is one of those things where it was someone's fault, but the "victim" could've avoided it by thinking a bit. Like Hülkenberg and Hamilton here six years ago.

This race, and Verstappen's lack of self-control after it, was an absolute story. It feels nostalgic and it just happened.

Tsar of the Track Designing Competition

Murray Walker wrote:All's fair in love and war, and this is revolution as Esteban Tuero in the Minardi comes into the pits at the end of his first lap.
by dr-baker 12 Nov 2018, 17:34
dr-baker wrote:
lance_rambert wrote:
dr-baker wrote:No mentions of Senna and Irvine at Suzuka 1993?


Referring to the Piquet-Salazar fisticuffs makes more sense in this case because Max didn't punch Esteban in the face like Senna allegedly did to Irvine.

OK, fair enough.

Although, it appears that other minds were jumping to Senna after this race...

https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/5659/why-senna-punched-irvine

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/140002/verstappen-incidents-remind-hill-of-senna

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by This 13 Nov 2018, 02:57
Do i imagine things or did ancient times simply had more off-track drama? (between people, not between entities, we got enough of that already)

Fabulously Floofy.
by yannicksamlad 13 Nov 2018, 13:35
CarloSpace wrote:That's what I was referring to ;) I didn't initially remember who it was with or which year and couldn't find anything on YouTube about the incident, so it's nice to know I wasn't imagining seeing the incident. And I also found footage of the incident: https://youtu.be/EKtlro2i9tw?t=1214

Palmer was 12th though (!) And it was a lunge by Jolyon
But yes - I do feel a bit for Max . He lost the win. Seems he takes a while to calm down ......

I started supporting Emmo in 1976 (3 points )....missed 75, 74, 73, 72...

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