The place for speaking your mind on current goings-on in F1
by Faustus 30 Jul 2019, 14:57
Aislabie wrote:
Miguel98 wrote:Jamie Chadwick

If she has the Super Licence points then this would actually be quite a good call. Good marketing, quick driver, and if they're still at the arse-end of the field then she can't stand out by being especially bad if everything went sideways


I don't think she has the points for it, even though, as you say, it would be great to see her do it.
I expect Williams will have 2 paying drivers next year, between Sette Camara, Latifi, Markelov and the like.

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by mario 30 Jul 2019, 21:01
Faustus wrote:
Aislabie wrote:
Miguel98 wrote:Jamie Chadwick

If she has the Super Licence points then this would actually be quite a good call. Good marketing, quick driver, and if they're still at the arse-end of the field then she can't stand out by being especially bad if everything went sideways


I don't think she has the points for it, even though, as you say, it would be great to see her do it.
I expect Williams will have 2 paying drivers next year, between Sette Camara, Latifi, Markelov and the like.

Currently, I think she does not have any superlicence points - her 9th and 8th places in the British Formula 3 championship were too low to earn any points, and the only other thing which perhaps could count - her British GT championship - would be too far in the past to count now.

Winning the W Series would net her 15 points, which is still a long way short of the 40 point threshold - it's still some way short of the 25 point threshold for even getting a practise only licence. Unless she starts doubling up in more series, I can't see her earning the necessary minimum number of points this year.

I believe that Latifi is currently on course to qualify for a superlicence though, thanks to his finishes in Formula 2 - he's probably a pretty likely candidate for a seat at Williams next year.

On another note, we now have Helmut Marko issuing a statement stating that Red Bull are not planning on getting rid of Gasly during the season, saying that they will end the season with the same driver line up they started with. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mark ... t/4503923/

That said, he does concede that Kvyat's form is starting to put Gasly under pressure - and some have noted that Marko was also saying very similar things about Kvyat just a few weeks before Kvyat was booted back to Toro Rosso, so it's probably not going to be much comfort for Gasly to hear that...

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by This 31 Jul 2019, 03:37
What probably means 'Gasly will not be dumped from the stable, he'll get a second chance at Toro Rosso'.

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by Aislabie 31 Jul 2019, 10:48
The only real reason I can think that they're giving Gasly so many chances is that Honda really love him after what he did at Mugen and Toro Rosso, and his rapport with the Honda engineers. But I really don't think many drivers at all would stack up well against Max in equal machinery.

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by CaptainGetz12 31 Jul 2019, 17:10
Aislabie wrote:The only real reason I can think that they're giving Gasly so many chances is that Honda really love him after what he did at Mugen and Toro Rosso, and his rapport with the Honda engineers. But I really don't think many drivers at all would stack up well against Max in equal machinery.


After having burned bridges with Kvyat, and being rewarded by inviting him back, perhaps Red Bull is becoming more cautious in keeping good relationships with its drivers. The ability to develop a car effectively means that Gasly is relevant right now, even if just in a test driver role.

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by IceG 04 Aug 2019, 22:26
Some silly stats...

We've had twelve races so far this season.

Hamilton is the de facto No 1 at Mercedes. Ignoring fastest laps. he has scored 248 (250-2) points out of a possible 300 (25x12), i.e. 83%. If it were assumed that Bottas would be expected to maximise second places then his 186 (188-2) out of a possible 216 (18x12) is 86%. So arguably Bottas is actually out-performing Hamilton with respect to what is possible. If Bottas is expected to score 25 when Hamilton does not then the calculation becomes 186 out of 244 or 76% - probably more indicative of his performance.

To put that in context, Verstappen has scored 178 (181-3) out of 300, i.e. 59%, or 82% out of 216.
by Spectoremg 06 Aug 2019, 20:06
IceG wrote:Some silly stats...

We've had twelve races so far this season.

Hamilton is the de facto No 1 at Mercedes. Ignoring fastest laps. he has scored 248 (250-2) points out of a possible 300 (25x12), i.e. 83%. If it were assumed that Bottas would be expected to maximise second places then his 186 (188-2) out of a possible 216 (18x12) is 86%. So arguably Bottas is actually out-performing Hamilton with respect to what is possible. If Bottas is expected to score 25 when Hamilton does not then the calculation becomes 186 out of 244 or 76% - probably more indicative of his performance.

To put that in context, Verstappen has scored 178 (181-3) out of 300, i.e. 59%, or 82% out of 216.

That's really interesting in a sort of get out more way zzz...
by UncreativeUsername37 06 Aug 2019, 21:31
Spectoremg wrote:
IceG wrote:Some silly stats...

We've had twelve races so far this season.

Hamilton is the de facto No 1 at Mercedes. Ignoring fastest laps. he has scored 248 (250-2) points out of a possible 300 (25x12), i.e. 83%. If it were assumed that Bottas would be expected to maximise second places then his 186 (188-2) out of a possible 216 (18x12) is 86%. So arguably Bottas is actually out-performing Hamilton with respect to what is possible. If Bottas is expected to score 25 when Hamilton does not then the calculation becomes 186 out of 244 or 76% - probably more indicative of his performance.

To put that in context, Verstappen has scored 178 (181-3) out of 300, i.e. 59%, or 82% out of 216.

That's really interesting in a sort of get out more way zzz...

I see Mercedes as an equal opportunity team... otherwise I think it would be an interesting point. Although the point system we have at the moment isn't as (logarithmically) linear as it should be.

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by Simtek 07 Aug 2019, 02:29
Spectoremg wrote:That's really interesting in a sort of get out more way zzz...

Insightful as always. You should write for Autosport.

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by Rob Dylan 07 Aug 2019, 19:25
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mexican-grand-prix-2020-contract/4509928/

Looks like Mexico's back on the calendar for a bunch more seasons, everyone. No problem with me, it's decent track imo. Unfortunately, it looks like Germany's not getting a grand prix next year.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


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by Spectoremg 14 Aug 2019, 20:28
Simtek wrote:
Spectoremg wrote:That's really interesting in a sort of get out more way zzz...

Insightful as always. You should write for Autosport.

I just live for endless stats...
by Rob Dylan 27 Aug 2019, 11:28
Is it possibly just hopeful silly season on behalf of French media to have a Frenchman in the Renault team? Though it would be an immense line-up if Ocon were to partner Ricciardo.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by mario 27 Aug 2019, 19:08
Rob Dylan wrote:Is it possibly just hopeful silly season on behalf of French media to have a Frenchman in the Renault team? Though it would be an immense line-up if Ocon were to partner Ricciardo.

It's tricky to tell - whilst, on the one hand, there could be an element of the French media playing up the chances of a French driver, it's not the first time that Ocon has been linked to Renault.

Mercedes have indicated they are prepared to loan Ocon out to another team - he was on loan there as a free practise driver in the past, and Mercedes were negotiating for a race seat for him until Ricciardo surprised everybody by accepting Renault's offer. With the whispers that Bottas might be getting a contract extension, and given Wolff is keen to get Ocon back onto the grid for next year, the idea does certainly seem plausible.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by Miguel98 29 Aug 2019, 13:32
Bottas stays at Mercedes for 2020 at least, and Ocon replaces Hülk at Renault.

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by This 29 Aug 2019, 21:29
So that's Hulk to Haas maybe?

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by mario 30 Aug 2019, 20:24
Pacific 777 wrote:
This wrote:So that's Hulk to Haas maybe?


Probably. :( Unless Alfa get generous and replace GIovinazzi with him.

Sauber might be an option, given his previous links with the team, but the buzz had been around a potential deal with Haas - not sure if a combination of Hulkenberg and Magnussen would necessarily be for the best though.

On another note, it has been confirmed that Perez has signed a three year deal with Racing Point. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pere ... l/4524728/

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by Rob Dylan 31 Aug 2019, 13:25
Surprised but not surprised about Bottas staying at Mercedes. As I said in the (plug) podcast, Bottas might not be 10/10, then again there's almost no guarantee Ocon would ever be that either. So it's the safer and probably smarter option. Ocon needs a year back in F1 to prove he can jump into that Mercedes and sweep the field.

Pérez at Force India sorry Racing Point for another three years - he must be up there near the record for longest time with a single team. Schumacher did 11 at Ferrari. Pérez has done six now, and will do another three. He must be very happy and comfortable as musical chairs gets towards its conclusion, whilst Hulkenberg must be worrying.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by IceG 08 Sep 2019, 22:29
So if or when Vettel does a Rosberg what do Ferrari do?

(i) Recall Kimi from Alfa
(ii) Phone Fernando
(iii) Pick up the Hulk for a song
by Klon 08 Sep 2019, 22:30
IceG wrote:So if or when Vettel does a Rosberg what do Ferrari do?

(i) Recall Kimi from Alfa
(ii) Phone Fernando
(iii) Pick up the Hulk for a song


Try to buy out Max or Lewis.
by mario 09 Sep 2019, 06:56
Klon wrote:
IceG wrote:So if or when Vettel does a Rosberg what do Ferrari do?

(i) Recall Kimi from Alfa
(ii) Phone Fernando
(iii) Pick up the Hulk for a song


Try to buy out Max or Lewis.

If you are either one of those drivers, why would you move to Ferrari? Both have good relations with their current team and both will probably see their current team as their best option for future success, given the variable form of Ferrari over the years.

If Vettel were to make a surprise move to quit, I could potentially see Ferrari recalling Kimi for a season whilst they sort out a longer term option.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by Klon 09 Sep 2019, 09:13
mario wrote:If you are either one of those drivers, why would you move to Ferrari? Both have good relations with their current team and both will probably see their current team as their best option for future success, given the variable form of Ferrari over the years.


Ferrari, whether they deserve to be or not (they do not), are still a name. I'll always be more surprised by people rejecting Ferrari than joining them. Not to mention after having drained the life out of first Alonso and now Vettel, there will be the "I'll succeed where they could not" drive. Never underestimate the ego of a F1 star.
by Miguel98 09 Sep 2019, 09:27
Klon wrote:
mario wrote:If you are either one of those drivers, why would you move to Ferrari? Both have good relations with their current team and both will probably see their current team as their best option for future success, given the variable form of Ferrari over the years.


Ferrari, whether they deserve to be or not (they do not), are still a name. I'll always be more surprised by people rejecting Ferrari than joining them. Not to mention after having drained the life out of first Alonso and now Vettel, there will be the "I'll succeed where they could not" drive. Never underestimate the ego of a F1 star.


Especially that Mr. Lewis Hamilton has said numeral times in his career that he would like to drive for Ferrari.

Mario on Gutierrez after the Italian Grand Prix wrote:He's no longer just a bit of a tool, he's the entire tool set.


18-07-2015: Forever in our hearts Jules.
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by rachel1990 09 Sep 2019, 09:38
mario wrote:
Klon wrote:
IceG wrote:So if or when Vettel does a Rosberg what do Ferrari do?

(i) Recall Kimi from Alfa
(ii) Phone Fernando
(iii) Pick up the Hulk for a song


Try to buy out Max or Lewis.

If you are either one of those drivers, why would you move to Ferrari? Both have good relations with their current team and both will probably see their current team as their best option for future success, given the variable form of Ferrari over the years.

If Vettel were to make a surprise move to quit, I could potentially see Ferrari recalling Kimi for a season whilst they sort out a longer term option.


I have to agree. I was discussing the situation with a couple of people yesterday and while Grosjeans name popped up (I burst out laughing at that statement) Kimi does seem to be the best option for Ferrari if Vettel walks for 2020.

After that I could actually see them going for Bottas for 2021 since Toto may want Ocon or Russell in the 2nd Mercedes.

However I don't think Vettel will walk at this stage. However if he gets a 1 race ban in the next 3 races, that might change everything

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by mario 10 Sep 2019, 19:11
Klon wrote:
mario wrote:If you are either one of those drivers, why would you move to Ferrari? Both have good relations with their current team and both will probably see their current team as their best option for future success, given the variable form of Ferrari over the years.

Ferrari, whether they deserve to be or not (they do not), are still a name. I'll always be more surprised by people rejecting Ferrari than joining them. Not to mention after having drained the life out of first Alonso and now Vettel, there will be the "I'll succeed where they could not" drive. Never underestimate the ego of a F1 star.

Even so, for both drivers I struggle to see what exactly they would gain from switching to Ferrari right now, and think that both drivers are more likely to be motivated by short term potential goals.

In the case of Hamilton, it seems that the bigger lure for him is the possibility of now matching, or perhaps even beating, more of Schumacher's records - he's on the way to a sixth title, putting him within touching distance of equalling Michael's record of seven, and currently just 10 victories away from equalling Schumacher's current record of 91 wins.

There might be the element of "I'll succeed where they could not", and Hamilton has made some comments where he's expressed interest in the idea of driving for Ferrari. However, if ego comes into it, then he'll know that staying at Mercedes also offers him a great chance of either matching or breaking most of Schumacher's records - and being able to say that you've matched the achievements of a driver often hailed as one of the best in the history of the sport is surely an even bigger prize.

As for Verstappen, at Red Bull it is clear that he can bend and shape the team to his will, given the leverage he has over them, and have a degree of influence over the team that Ferrari would almost certainly never allow him to have. His team have one of the great designers of the sport to call upon, and the progress that Honda have been making with their power unit is now forcing many to accept that Honda are becoming much more of a force to be reckoned with than they were in the past.

Furthermore, Verstappen has the luxury of time being on his side, given he's only just turning 22 now - why rush to Ferrari now, given he can afford to spend a few years at Red Bull focussing on building the team around him? If it does work, he could well enjoy more success than he might at Ferrari, and if he doesn't, they'd probably still be open to signing him in the future and he would still be able to enjoy a lengthy career there.

Furthermore, Leclerc is the driver whom Ferrari seem to be building their long term plans, and in more recent races he has shown something of a steelier, and arguably more ruthless, side to his character. To some extent, there might be the potential for increased conflict between their drivers if you paired Leclerc with either Hamilton or Verstappen - particularly the latter, I imagine - that Ferrari might want to avoid, and similarly both Hamilton and Verstappen might find being paired with Leclerc a less palatable option than they might have thought at the start of this season.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by Rob Dylan 10 Sep 2019, 19:31
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/145894/williams-posts-big-loss-following-poor-2018

Williams just reported a loss of £16.8 million in the first half of 2019. This is compared to the same period last year, when they had a £0.2 million profit. Lots of spin and PR-speak in the article coming from the company, but it's worrying to a layman like me.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by Rob Dylan 19 Sep 2019, 10:52
I'd be very interested about the grounds on which Grosjean was retained! Armchair expert here, but I would have fired both of them - they've both had mediocre at best and incredibly damaging not just in terms of finances, but in terms of PR as well.

I'm sure I'm not the only one scratching their head...

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by rachel1990 19 Sep 2019, 12:52
I just have my head in my hands at the moment. I would have definitely let Grosjean go ( he has done nothing this year to justify his seat) and Maybe kept Magnusson.

Well that is the Hulk out of F1. Unless he goes back to Williams which I doubt he will. Formula E beckons

(Unless Vettel surprises us all and quits F1. Or Red Bull decline on all 3 drivers fighting for the second seat alongside Verstappen)

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by Samster 19 Sep 2019, 15:13
Rob Dylan wrote:I'd be very interested about the grounds on which Grosjean was retained! Armchair expert here, but I would have fired both of them - they've both had mediocre at best and incredibly damaging not just in terms of finances, but in terms of PR as well.

I'm sure I'm not the only one scratching their head...


Great a fourth season of the weakest driver pairing on the grid. :facepalm: If Haas honestly think Grosjean is better than Hulkenburg, they deserve to fail.

by mario 19 Sep 2019, 18:02
Rob Dylan wrote:I'd be very interested about the grounds on which Grosjean was retained! Armchair expert here, but I would have fired both of them - they've both had mediocre at best and incredibly damaging not just in terms of finances, but in terms of PR as well.

I'm sure I'm not the only one scratching their head...

The implication seems to be that Grosjean's help in sorting out the problems the team have had with their attempts to upgrade the car over the season might be what has helped him keep his seat.

Although Haas have denied this was a factor, some have also wondered whether the team might have kept Grosjean on because of the potential for conflict between Magnussen and Hulkenberg if they were in the same team.

So, where might Hulkenberg be off to now? The two seats that seem most likely are at Alfa Romeo and at Williams - Giovinazzi is out of contract at the former, and Kubica's departure does open a vacancy at the latter. That said, I think a lot of people are expecting Latifi might get the latter seat, so it might be down to how much support Giovinazzi has from Ferrari to keep him in that seat.

Speaking of Kubica, in many ways it feels like that announcement was a matter of when, not if, it was made. Whilst it might have made for an attractive story, overall it felt as if the weight of expectations was too high and inevitably he was going to fall short - and, sadly, he's fallen quite a bit further short than many would have hoped for.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by Ataxia 19 Sep 2019, 18:38
We believe Latifi signed for Williams over the Italian GP weekend, so Alfa seems like the only opportunity. But as Ferrari has jurisdiction over the second seat, it might be hard to get Hulkenberg in.

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by mario 20 Sep 2019, 18:55
Ataxia wrote:We believe Latifi signed for Williams over the Italian GP weekend, so Alfa seems like the only opportunity. But as Ferrari has jurisdiction over the second seat, it might be hard to get Hulkenberg in.

The news of a likely deal between Williams and Latifi is not surprising - with regards to Alfa Romeo, I agree that it's certainly not going to be easy given that Ferrari are likely to want to keep Giovinazzi there, but on the other hand the team owners may reason that, if they had Hulkenberg there and scoring a similar amount of points to Kimi, they would be several places higher in the WCC.

It's kind of hard to see where else he might go if he does fall out of F1 - the decline in manufacturer interest in the WEC means that it'd be hard to get into the top class, and there is still a huge amount of uncertainty over the rules for the LMP2 category downwards (it's assumed the ACO will slow those classes down to create room for the hypercar class, but they've not confirmed that).

At this rate, might we see Hulkenberg joining the ranks of former F1 drivers who have made the switch to Formula E? I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some pushing for that - there might be those within Formula E who might see it as an opportunity to lure some fans across from F1 to Formula E if they follow Hulkenberg over.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"

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