2021 Discussion Thread

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yannicksamlad
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Russian GP discussion!

Post by yannicksamlad »

Yep, should be interesting. But I'm a bit worried about Red Bull rear wing integrity...Once again, they seem to be a bit close to the limit..
Wing failure can be catastrophic.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Russian GP discussion!

Post by Paul Hayes »

Not a great race, but I can't help but be pleased for Perez getting on the podium. What an amazing reception for him, too. You'd think he'd won!
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Russian GP discussion!

Post by SammiRei »

Andrew Benson (the BBC's lead F1 writer) is on fine form today, after declaring that "George Russell was out-qualified by Williams team-mate George Russell for the first time in their three years together" in his write-up of the Friday qualifying.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Russian GP discussion!

Post by Rob Dylan »

He's forgotten the time Kubica outscored him as teammates ;)
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Russian GP discussion!

Post by Paul Hayes »

More evidence today I think for those who say if you're going to have sprint races, they need to be reverse grid. If it weren't for Hamilton, it would have been very dull yet again today.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Russian GP discussion!

Post by IceG »

Young Norris seemed to put up very little fight once Hamilton had caught him. He seemed to lift slightly early just before the first corner so Hamilton could go through.

Of course this cost Norris nothing since Hamilton would get the five-place grid penalty for the engine change but I think it means Hamilton is ahead of Ricciardo instead of behind him.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Russian GP discussion!

Post by Fetzie »

IceG wrote:Young Norris seemed to put up very little fight once Hamilton had caught him. He seemed to lift slightly early just before the first corner so Hamilton could go through.

Of course this cost Norris nothing since Hamilton would get the five-place grid penalty for the engine change but I think it means Hamilton is ahead of Ricciardo instead of behind him.


Yes, Hamilton starts 10th, Ricciardo 11th.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by mario »

Looking at events in Qatar, I have a deep sense of dissatisfaction at the way in which Mercedes's enquiry into the Hamilton-Verstappen incident in Brazil was handled.

The whole process smacks of having been orchestrated to produce the maximum amount of manufactured drama. As far as I can tell, there has not been any reasonable explanation as to why the stewards had to postpone their decision until today - it really reeks of the decision being deliberately postponed solely because Liberty Media wanted the decision to be announced during the press conference that Wolff and Horner were both in, so they could then cash in on the live reaction of the team bosses.

It really annoys me that it feels like sporting governance processes are being deliberately turned into a piece of theatre, and it feels like it has Liberty Media's fingerprints all over it when it comes to the way that the case was being presented in the press. I can't help but fear that we're going to see even more of this sort of theatricality in the future, and it really feels like it is cheapening the sport.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

I totally agree. In my naivety I expected that the enquiry would be going ahead behind the scenes and a result would be announced (or at least a precedent) for the rest of the season or the foreseeable future with regards to the incident itself and future incidents. Instead if was a simple "nope, nothing to investigate", and as Mario says, this is delayed news until Friday lunchtime, for no apparent reason other than that to delay makes more drama.

I know that the changes have been coming slowly, but there seems to have been a huge acceleration of what I will censoriously call "bathpluggery" with regard to a wide variety of scenes in the sport, be it race direction, tv direction, general competence, the publication of team-to-FIA communication, whatever Belgium was, etc.* Now this whole Verstappen-Hamilton incident has become 100 times bigger than it needed to, and it's entirely Masi and the stewards' fault :facepalm:


*I was also considering strangely-timed VSCs and horribly unsafe restarts to that last, but that's more last year.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by mario »

Rob Dylan wrote:I totally agree. In my naivety I expected that the enquiry would be going ahead behind the scenes and a result would be announced (or at least a precedent) for the rest of the season or the foreseeable future with regards to the incident itself and future incidents. Instead if was a simple "nope, nothing to investigate", and as Mario says, this is delayed news until Friday lunchtime, for no apparent reason other than that to delay makes more drama.

I know that the changes have been coming slowly, but there seems to have been a huge acceleration of what I will censoriously call "bathpluggery" with regard to a wide variety of scenes in the sport, be it race direction, tv direction, general competence, the publication of team-to-FIA communication, whatever Belgium was, etc.* Now this whole Verstappen-Hamilton incident has become 100 times bigger than it needed to, and it's entirely Masi and the stewards' fault :facepalm:


*I was also considering strangely-timed VSCs and horribly unsafe restarts to that last, but that's more last year.

Given that Dieter Rencken has reported that Netflix were allowed to set up their cameras in the room when only F1 personnel and FIA personnel are supposed to be there, it seems to confirm that the reason for the delay solely seems to have been to manufacture a more dramatic event for Netflix.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

When Liberty was coming in, Carey mentioned wanting to exploit F1 as more of a sport-centred entertainment brand than a sport. It's crazy, it's annoying, but it's always been part of the philosophy...
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by CoopsII »

Anybody else expecting the end of the last lap of the last race to be the starting pistol on a flurry of complaints, investigations, cries of 'cheating' and other behavior not unlike Donald Trump?

I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by dr-baker »

CoopsII wrote:Anybody else expecting the end of the last lap of the last race to be the starting pistol on a flurry of complaints, investigations, cries of 'cheating' and other behavior not unlike Donald Trump?

I hope I'm wrong.

At least this year has not had the same level of mudslinging as the 1994 season...
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by mario »

dr-baker wrote:
CoopsII wrote:Anybody else expecting the end of the last lap of the last race to be the starting pistol on a flurry of complaints, investigations, cries of 'cheating' and other behavior not unlike Donald Trump?

I hope I'm wrong.

At least this year has not had the same level of mudslinging as the 1994 season...

Mind you, on the Trumpian lines that CoopsII refers to, we're now getting disposable social media accounts being set up to deliberately pump out manipulated footage of Mercedes's rear wing to feed the narrative that Red Bull is trying to create around their wing. I do think CoopsII is right that we might see something like that at the end of the season.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by dr-baker »

mario wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
CoopsII wrote:Anybody else expecting the end of the last lap of the last race to be the starting pistol on a flurry of complaints, investigations, cries of 'cheating' and other behavior not unlike Donald Trump?

I hope I'm wrong.

At least this year has not had the same level of mudslinging as the 1994 season...

Mind you, on the Trumpian lines that CoopsII refers to, we're now getting disposable social media accounts being set up to deliberately pump out manipulated footage of Mercedes's rear wing to feed the narrative that Red Bull is trying to create around their wing. I do think CoopsII is right that we might see something like that at the end of the season.

As CoopsII said, I too hope that this does not come to pass, but at least it will have been mostly an end of season thing, not a whole season thing. But you're right, social media doesn't help. Thank goodness 1994 did not have that.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

Oh gosh you're right. The only way 1994 could have gone any worse had been if social media of today had been around at the time. The kind of misery that plagued most of 2014 with one of the most tragic seasons in the sport's history would have been too much.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by IceG »

Watched FP1 and FP2 from Jeddah...

FP1 on-board shots were startling to say the least what with the speeds, the non-stop corners and the walls. The circuit looks interesting with the continuous sinuous corners and seemingly well-designed kerbing. There does though look to be a lack of run-off areas and access for cranes to rescue stricken cars.

FP2 was terrifying with the floodlights and drivers trying out the limits. But the blind corners, walls and high speeds combined with bunching and slow drivers waiting to do a quick lap have me concerned that a major accident will occur. A blown engine with lots of smoke trapped between the walls during the race could be equally catastrophic. I hope I am wrong...
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Alextrax52 »

As soon as I heard that 79% of the circuit is full throttle I started to feel uneasy and the first 2 practice sessions have done nothing to change that. I fear Leclerc’s accident will not be the last big one we see as the stakes get higher. Lapped traffic and the increasing amount of marbles as a race goes on only adds to that.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by CoopsII »

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote: I fear Leclerc’s accident will not be the last big one we see as the stakes get higher.

I'd imagine Netflix take a different view
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by noiceinmydrink »

My opinions on the Saudi government aside, I love this track. I was clinching myself the whole way through that qualifying session, I haven't felt that exhileration in years. That's what F1 is about for me, on the knife edge between glory and disaster.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Miguel98 »

I don't have words on what I saw today, but I wanna know your opinion. What the hell happened at Jeddah and how did we get here?
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Klon »

The answer to both of your questions is "money", Miguel.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by dr-baker »

Klon wrote:The answer to both of your questions is "money", Miguel.

That, and calling F1 entertainment rather than sport.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

There have been many moments that have felt like a total sea change, glimpses of it in 2019, very clear signs in 2020, and then now it's been out in the open. For better or for worse, F1 today is not what F1 was, and it's up to you to decide whether you are happy or not with what F1 is now.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by CoopsII »

noiceinmydrink wrote:My opinions on the Saudi government aside.

Saudi Arabia seems like a pretty appalling place to be honest but, sadly, no worse than Russia or China when it comes to basic human rights. Hell, in 2020 they executed 27 people.

America executed 17.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by yannicksamlad »

Rob Dylan wrote:There have been many moments that have felt like a total sea change, glimpses of it in 2019, very clear signs in 2020, and then now it's been out in the open. For better or for worse, F1 today is not what F1 was, and it's up to you to decide whether you are happy or not with what F1 is now.


Indeed. Not helped by Sky joining in by promoting the WWF (?) Toto/Christian show etc . I dont like it.
There's enough sport to keep me interested, but a while ago I found I couldnt watch too much football any more as its all about cheating to get a result and not enough about skill . (Women's football is much more like sport). I hope F1 doesnt go that way for me
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

So much that is worthy of more discussion. I started a thread on Liberty Media a while ago that was focused more on the positive, but there really needs to be more about the darker side. My biggest disappointment is that they added the races in countries with repressive regimes. At first I was wondering why more F1 reporters weren't bringing up Jamal Khashoggi, but then I realized that doing so would be to risk ending up murdered like him. I'm not a journalist, but I went to J-school, so the safety of journalists is important to me, I mean I went to school with many of them.

Anyway, all of this is to say that it is hard to know where to stand sometimes. Not in terms what's right or wrong, but what to accept in the name of enjoying something. I can't draw that line for anyone (I don't even know if I can do it for myself). I'd really like to hear more of the forum's specific complaints. Or just facts and figures. This isn't to excuse ourselves or to draw false moral equivalencies, but to be honest and to understand.

I'll start with a few, I hope to read others.

Starting small, the seeming sensationalization of F1 through things like netflix's drive to survive. This doesn't honestly bother me much. I've been reading reviews of the show in mainstream media or sports sites. For example, because the show has been so popular, the sports site called The Ringer has actually started covering F1. And I've read other articles on more news and culture and tech oriented sources like Vox, slate, the Atlantic and others as well. And by and large, these writers seem to understand that drive to survive is just like every other reality TV show and as such, they understand that the editing doesn't match reality. The writers don't treat F1 like WWE when they write about the sport, but they never would have written about it without DTS. I like reading and listening to the ringer on pop culture and sports stuff, and if can get some F1 content there as well, I'm happy. I mean "Senna" wasn't the most accurate movie, but I still loved it.

At the other end of the spectrum, is the issue of races that benefit repressive regimes. I'm pissed they blatantly took the money in Saudi Arabia. But as Coops pointed out, Russia, China, the US all have problems. That said, I'm not one of the equivalency people who says "whatabout" everything. I'll draw a line. I would draw it at Saudi Arabia (i.e. not go there). That said, plenty of socially responsible people watched it, so it's not clear to me what I should do. F1 gets my money even if I don't watch the race so it leaves me confused and feeling guilty and not sure what to do. Hell, the USGP takes place in Texas which has a poor record on human rights, whether it's the death penalty or reproductive rights or any of a number of other things. There are certainly subsidies the organizers and the track are taking from the state, so it's not great either.

Please chime in!
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Barbazza »

It's definitely not the F1 I know. Sure, there were controversial moments aplenty in the past, but it never felt.....stage managed. The chats with Michael Masi, the nonsensical stewards decisions, or lack of them, Sky F1's ever more appalling coverage.

I have to say also that Max's deliberate braking with no warning is one of the most appalling things I've ever seen on a racetrack and confirms my ever growing opinion that he is just as nasty a piece of work as his Dad, just with more driving talent.

I'm calling it here: if Lewis wins the title (and as someone who's never been a huge fan, my opinion of him has grown about 1000% this year, so I hope he does) I think he will walk away.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by CoopsII »

It's strange to think that F1 actually stopped going to South Africa for several years due to apartheid (admittedly after ignoring it).

They wouldn't give a sh1t now. They could be burning townships down all year long and they'd still arrive muttering about not mixing sports and politics.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

CoopsII wrote:It's strange to think that F1 actually stopped going to South Africa for several years due to apartheid (admittedly after ignoring it).

They wouldn't give a sh1t now. They could be burning townships down all year long and they'd still arrive muttering about not mixing sports and politics.


I understand the pessimism Coops, I'd like to get your thoughts in a little more depth, if you're willing to give them that is.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

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One thing to think about is that the 2021 season hasn't needed to be presented as bizarre and close and dramatic because it actually is. In the beginning we had the fine margins at Bahrain and the large number of championship-altering events in Imola, near the end we've had Horner slating a marshal for correctly waving yellow flags and a number of ridiculous things at Jeddah, and in between you have Verstappen's terrible luck in Azerbaijan and Hamilton failing to capitalise, the collisions at Silverstone and Monza, Spa being unique though not in a good way, and much more... and that's just among the top two. It's been my favourite sports season I've ever watched. If F1 wants to milk that, that's fine with me. As for things like Drive to Survive, I don't know, I don't care, that's plenty removed from the sport itself....

That said, you do have things being done for the sake of drama like the Baku green-white-checker, the Brazil decision coming when it did, this general feeling that decisions about VSCs, safety cars, et cetera are being slid towards what will make for a close end to a sporting event.... Of course, that's what F1 has been about for a long time, with the top 10 not getting to fully pick their starting tyres and DRS and post red flag standing starts and the development handicap and you could go on for days, but as LCD as they may be, they're the sport's rules, fixed before the season. You can't say "that's the rules and it's up to you to play to them" with things like penalty decisions or a safety car or absence thereof you don't agree with, and though there'll usually be subjective calls to be made there, I'll say it again, it does feel like more and more often the decisions are being made based on what's good for "the show". Which is good for some people – possibly even most people, I don't know, I don't have any surveys handy – but certainly not those like us who want their sports to be pure contests.

Where you draw the line on what countries to go to I don't know. First of all, does the amount of money or quality of the track matter? Where would F1 be financially without Aramco, without the Bahrain GP, without the Azerbaijan GP... and should you be willing to accept an iffy country if the track is really cool? The answers seem obvious, just no, but when the race actually happens, your feelings aren't so simple, are they? If you take out everything in West Asia, and Azerbaijan if you don't count that, take out Russia, take out Singapore, does the loss of all that money leave us with a worse F1, and if it does is it worth not supporting these countries? Again, it seems obvious: of course it'd be worth it, it's just sports. But then if it actually happened, presumably over a few years, how would you actually feel about it....

Does it even matter? If F1 exists, it'll do what makes it the most money, because that's human nature. You don't get and stay in power by being utilitarian. The only way F1 doesn't go to, for example, Saudi Arabia is if the general PR hit to F1 (however people decide to try to measure that) and number of people who decide not to watch the specific race is so bad that the loss of sponsors is worth more than the amount of money Saudi Arabia gives F1. I realise I'm not actually answering the question of where's the line, should Hungary be gone to, should Russia be gone to, should Bahrain be gone to, should Saudi Arabia be gone to, how bad does a regime have to be for you to not want an extra race for F1. We consider F1's existence a positive thing and therefore we have to ask which races make the world a worse place. And when the cost of watching F1 is mainly done through package deals, it's even harder to tell you there's a real point to not watching a race. Should you give up all of F1 and some football too? Or maybe you really shouldn't because targeting specific races would get the message across better? If motorsport wasn't primarily about the season-long competition, say it ended up being more like cycling, maybe it'd be a lot easier to just not watch a race. Maybe a lot of people should pirate certain races to give F1 the impression no one is watching? All this stuff goes for other sports going to oppressive countries too, of course.

It's like the tragedy of the commons except multi-dimensional, or something, I don't know. So boycott certain events, or maybe don't. I don't know how to change the world, I know how to ramble.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by CoopsII »

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:
I understand the pessimism Coops, I'd like to get your thoughts in a little more depth, if you're willing to give them that is.

Oh my thoughts are irrelevant, I haven't watched much F1 since it went behind the pay wall here in the UK. I'm basically the angry neighbour shouting from next door that your music is too loud. But I did watch the Chinese GP several times fully aware what an oppressive regime was running the country, I think I watched at least one Russian race too. Were it still free to air I'd probably have watched the race in Jeddah so I'm clearly a non-participating hypocrite too.

But that's kind of the point; put it in front of us and we'll watch and accept, normalise, the way these countries are run. Better people, more responsible people should actively draw a line in the sand and say 'we won't support this' and take the races elsewhere but, obviously, they can't now because $$$$$
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

Thanks for the replies Coops, UU and everyone. Probably this forum isn't going to be able to solve this, but I think it's important to consider these kinds of questions from time to time. It's also just nice to know that we're not alone in thinking about this stuff. It's easy to get cut off from reality in today's world. Would love to hear more as well!
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by noiceinmydrink »

CoopsII wrote:It's strange to think that F1 actually stopped going to South Africa for several years due to apartheid (admittedly after ignoring it).

They wouldn't give a sh1t now. They could be burning townships down all year long and they'd still arrive muttering about not mixing sports and politics.

A lot of that is to do with polticial pressure though I think. During the 80s a lot of governments were starting to speak out a lot louder against the South African government. F1 was one of the last sports to stop going to South Africa after governments and teams started giving them heat about it (I think Renault actually pulled out of the '85 Grand Prix if I remember correctly?)

The situation in Saudi Arabia is quite different though because a lot of Western governments are invested in Saudi and give a lot of financial support to the regime. Any serious opposition to their human rights record would be monetarily inconvenient. This Frankie Boyle quote comes to mind;

Frankie Boyle wrote:Look, there's a colonial side to British charity, it's true; look at Yemen, right? We're the number one provider of weapons and bombs and expertise to Saudi Arabia that they use to bomb Yemen, to engineer a famine in Yemen. At the same time, we're the number two provide of aid to Yemen - and why not? Life gives you Yemen, you give Yemen aid.

I agree with your previous point though by the way - Saudi is far from the only rotten government in the world and it's mostly our own governments that enable it. If you look at the majority of the atrocities commited by places like Saudi and Israel for example, its US and UK weapons and equipment that support it.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by mario »

noiceinmydrink wrote:
CoopsII wrote:It's strange to think that F1 actually stopped going to South Africa for several years due to apartheid (admittedly after ignoring it).

They wouldn't give a sh1t now. They could be burning townships down all year long and they'd still arrive muttering about not mixing sports and politics.

A lot of that is to do with polticial pressure though I think. During the 80s a lot of governments were starting to speak out a lot louder against the South African government. F1 was one of the last sports to stop going to South Africa after governments and teams started giving them heat about it (I think Renault actually pulled out of the '85 Grand Prix if I remember correctly?)

Renault and Ligier both did not participate in the 1985 South African GP, but the indication is that both of those teams did so only because the French government pressured them into boycotting the event.

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:Starting small, the seeming sensationalization of F1 through things like netflix's drive to survive. This doesn't honestly bother me much. I've been reading reviews of the show in mainstream media or sports sites. For example, because the show has been so popular, the sports site called The Ringer has actually started covering F1. And I've read other articles on more news and culture and tech oriented sources like Vox, slate, the Atlantic and others as well. And by and large, these writers seem to understand that drive to survive is just like every other reality TV show and as such, they understand that the editing doesn't match reality. The writers don't treat F1 like WWE when they write about the sport, but they never would have written about it without DTS. I like reading and listening to the ringer on pop culture and sports stuff, and if can get some F1 content there as well, I'm happy. I mean "Senna" wasn't the most accurate movie, but I still loved it.

With regards to things like "Drive to Survive", whilst it is the case that we might know that the way the sport is presented in that series is rather sensationalised and not that accurate, and whilst it may be the case that those other writers might also be aware of that issue, there is a question of what percentage of the audience watching the show is aware of the degree of sensationalism.

There also seem to be times when the way in which events are being presented feel like they're being stage managed to produce a better product for that show, as if Liberty Media have decided that, rather than requiring selective editing, it is better to sensationalise the sport itself.

As Barbazza notes, whilst the course of running the sport has had its ups and downs, the degree of stage management feels much more heavy handed by Liberty Media, and the management of the sport feels less coherent as Masi seems to be blurring a number of lines in terms of what a race director should be doing and what he is actually doing.

I do also wonder whether the approach that Liberty Media is taking, which seems to be to want to encourage a greater focus on the drivers, is in turn making the fan base much more polarised and bitter. There seems to be a rancorous tone to the fan base that has become far more bitter than anything seen in decades, and too many seem keen to keep pouring fuel on the fire in a way that feels like some sort of disaster will happen.

With regards to the decisions on where to go, asides from the cynicism about some of the venues chosen, there is also the debate over why some of those venues themselves are deemed suitable. There are multiple aspects about the way the Jeddah circuit is designed that seem to fly in the face of the FIA's safety standards, and so many aspects of the recent changes to the sport come across as rushed decisions - the way that the sprint races were brought in at such a late stage that they only finished the rules a few days in advance, and now with Jeddah we saw an entire circuit barely being ready in time (some sections of the track only being laid about a week before the race took place).

There is a culture of decision making that comes across as something they've largely gotten away with so far, but that it will backfire sooner or later (I guess the Vietnam proposal did backfire, but has been allowed to fade into obscurity).
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

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noiceinmydrink wrote:A lot of that is to do with political pressure though I think. During the 80s a lot of governments were starting to speak out a lot louder against the South African government.

That's a significant point and actually shows F1 isn't the cause of the problem it's simply reacting to society. Even back then, when governments and politicians were slightly more honourable than the shit-show most of us have to put up with these days, most decisions were made based on how it would play with their respective voters. There was social pressure from artists, musicians and everyday citizens on South Africa that led to the political pressure.

Where is that now? In a world where social injustice and cruelty can and is shared through social media in seconds where is the outrage and demands for change?

I have no answer to that question.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

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I've been absent for a while...good to see people are still out here.

I'm sure this has been brought up in many areas, but as someone who was here back in 2009 because there were no other people in America that I knew who cared about Formula 1, it is crazy to have random friends and "casual fans" telling me they are laser-focused on this season.

I think the reality TV aspect of it and the Netflix drama have dragged in many people, but quite simply the TV product has been much better during the Liberty era. The ESPN access here in the United States where there is no paywall and everyone watches on cable is also key. That's how you get over 100,000 people in Austin, I suppose. It's become water cooler talk. There's almost nothing "niche" about following it. Everything has changed from when I was 13 and the only friends who wanted to talk about topics like Caterham or Rubens Barrichello crying were online in random places across the globe. But, of course, I'm still really thankful I had that!

Whatever happens this weekend, I think this is likely the most dramatic and important race of my lifetime. At GP Rejects, we often delighted in the obscure and the unsuccessful, but there is truly nothing quite like this spectacle of a tied title fight. I may have been more excited when Super Aguri scored points for the first time, but this is undoubtedly the peak of the Liberty era so far. We shall see how it goes!
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59588805
Channel 4 have acquired rights to show the last race for free.....and I'm unsure whether to bother. I don't really mind who wins but I've a feeling it could be a negative experience.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

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Mario, I'd contrast your reply to tristan1117's reply. There are really multiple ways of looking at it. As tristan mentioned, not that long ago, we folks in the US could go years without seeing another F1 fan "in the wild" so to speak. Now it happens quite often. Honestly, to my eyes, F1 is about as sensationalized as NBA basketball or something. It's not even on the same planet as WWE wrestling or boxing or MMA or things like that. It's much less sensationalized than NASCAR in my opinion. F1 was extremely staid for a long time. I liked it when it was staid, but I like it at least that much, if not more, now.

That said, I understand that by getting more sensational, that puts it closer to being too sensational than it was before, logically speaking. So we should remain vigilant, and I think we will.
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Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

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CoopsII wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59588805
Channel 4 have acquired rights to show the last race for free.....and I'm unsure whether to bother. I don't really mind who wins but I've a feeling it could be a negative experience.


You've got to do what's best for you. You have always struck me as extremely moral in your writing. Look, I was raised Catholic, I would, at worst, classify watching this weekend's GP as a venial sin. Of consequence, but not a damnable offence. ;)

Unless by negative you're saying you're worried about dozing off and smacking your head on the coffee table, which is a real possibility given it's Abu Dhabi. All the best to you and yours!
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