Ponderbox

The place for speaking your mind on current goings-on in F1
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by dr-baker »

Each time I see STR, I keep thinking it's Scuderia Toro Rosso before I realise it's Lance Stroll...
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

Fred Mayo wrote:I thought the TLAs were for life, since Michael Schumacher kept on being MSC despite Ralf no longer being in the field.

I believe they did look at changing it to SCH, but he wanted to keep it as MSC because that's just what he's become associated with, or something along those lines.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Aislabie »

It seems as if these new regs have really shown who the best drivers are: all of Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen, Ricciardo, Sainz and Alonso have been outstanding at both Grands Prix
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by watka »

Aislabie wrote:It seems as if these new regs have really shown who the best drivers are: all of Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen, Ricciardo, Sainz and Alonso have been outstanding at both Grands Prix


Must say that I'm surprised these new regs haven't suited Raikkonen more. He cut his teeth in the high-octane V10 days so I thought he would be more at home being able to push harder.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Butterfox »

watka wrote:
Aislabie wrote:It seems as if these new regs have really shown who the best drivers are: all of Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen, Ricciardo, Sainz and Alonso have been outstanding at both Grands Prix


Must say that I'm surprised these new regs haven't suited Raikkonen more. He cut his teeth in the high-octane V10 days so I thought he would be more at home being able to push harder.

Hm, he never really seemed to find his pace at Ferrari though.
I'm also curious to see i Perez, Hulkenberg and Grosjean are the real thing with these cars. So far the answer is inconclusive.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by DanielPT »

This wrote:
watka wrote:
Aislabie wrote:It seems as if these new regs have really shown who the best drivers are: all of Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen, Ricciardo, Sainz and Alonso have been outstanding at both Grands Prix


Must say that I'm surprised these new regs haven't suited Raikkonen more. He cut his teeth in the high-octane V10 days so I thought he would be more at home being able to push harder.

Hm, he never really seemed to find his pace at Ferrari though.
I'm also curious to see i Perez, Hulkenberg and Grosjean are the real thing with these cars. So far the answer is inconclusive.


I am not really that surprised. I have been defending for a while that Raikkonen is past it as top racing driver. Ever since Spa 2008 that his aura disappeared for me, so it only got worse when he came back in 2012 and became a definitive opinion when he moved to Ferrari.

As for the others, from the paragraph above you might already deduce that I don't rate Grosjean that highly. Perez though I think he can do things when he is on one of his days. Finally, Hulkenberg is not the driver Renault is looking for.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by takagi_for_the_win »

This wrote:I'm also curious to see i Perez, Hulkenberg and Grosjean are the real thing with these cars. So far the answer is inconclusive.

>Implying it isn't common knowledge that Grosjean is the single greatest F1 driver ever.

DanielPT wrote:I am not really that surprised. I have been defending for a while that Raikkonen is past it as top racing driver. Ever since Spa 2008 that his aura disappeared for me, so it only got worse when he came back in 2012 and became a definitive opinion when he moved to Ferrari.

Yeah, I've been thinking that as well. He never seemed to have the raw pace with Lotus that he did in his McLaren days or 2007, and once Grosjean learned how to stop crashing and got a bit of confidence back Kimi was outpaced by him. Likewise, he's never really looked anywhere near Vettel's pace since joining Ferrari, and while that's nothing to be ashamed about, you just feel he's just taking up a seat now that could be passed onto to a younger driver.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by solarcold »

Some of you might appreciate the fact that GPRejects Forums now has 1049 members. Nothing important honestly, just a random stat.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Pointrox »

Robert Kubica tested a GP3 car recently. I wonder where this is going, given that he quit his last job at MyKolles in WEC :D
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by DemocalypseNow »

Pointrox wrote:Robert Kubica tested a GP3 car recently. I wonder where this is going, given that he quit his last job at MyKolles in WEC :D

Apparently Kubica complained that working with Colin Kolles was like pulling teeth.

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Re: Ponderbox

Post by watka »

DemocalypseNow wrote:
Pointrox wrote:Robert Kubica tested a GP3 car recently. I wonder where this is going, given that he quit his last job at MyKolles in WEC :D

Apparently Kubica complained that working with Colin Kolles was like pulling teeth.

:pantano:


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Re: Ponderbox

Post by mario »

Pointrox wrote:Robert Kubica tested a GP3 car recently. I wonder where this is going, given that he quit his last job at MyKolles in WEC :D

Does anybody have any indication of what sort of lap times he was setting during that GP3 test session? It's one thing to have taken part and another thing to tell whether or not his lap times were competitive.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by andrew »

mario wrote:
Pointrox wrote:Robert Kubica tested a GP3 car recently. I wonder where this is going, given that he quit his last job at MyKolles in WEC :D

Does anybody have any indication of what sort of lap times he was setting during that GP3 test session? It's one thing to have taken part and another thing to tell whether or not his lap times were competitive.


I can't find indications of any lap times, but there are reports implying he did over 70 laps suggesting he at least has the stamina and the strength to drive.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by girry »

The test was around the Franciacorta track which doesn't get used much, so I doubt you could tell from the laptimes how fast Kubica was going
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by mario »

giraurd wrote:The test was around the Franciacorta track which doesn't get used much, so I doubt you could tell from the laptimes how fast Kubica was going

I see - that does seem to suggest to me that was a deliberate decision in order to make it very difficult for any sort of comparison to be made.

As andrew notes, it does at least suggest that Kubica does still have reasonably good core strength and stamina, but then again that was in some ways already evident from the fact that he was considering taking part in the WEC (even if the ByKolles entry has been slower than some LMP2 cars).
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by girry »

Within the last 40 years there has been only one Formula 1 driver from New Zealand; and even that one - Mike Thackwell - did his last F1 race over 30 years ago.

Yet, the Kiwis currently have a "top 10" list of racing drivers pretty much every other country would be envious of, just in categories not F1.

Scott Dixon, Ganassi driver, 4 time Indycar champ, Indy 500 winner, two time Daytona 24 winner
Shane van Gisbergen, Triple Eight V8SC & Mercedes GT factory driver, reigning V8SC champion, Bathurst 12h winner
Earl Bamber, Porsche LMP factory driver, Le Mans 24h winner
Brendon Hartley, Porsche LMP factory driver, WEC champion
Fabien Coulthard, DJR Penske V8SC driver, current V8SC championship leaer
Scott McLaughlin, DJR Penske V8SC driver, last year V8SC 3rd place
Hayden Paddon, Hyundai WRC factory driver, WRC race winner
Mitch Evans, Jaguar Formula E factory driver, 7 time GP2 race winner
Richie Stanaway, Aston Martin GT factory driver, GP2 & WEC LMGTE race winner
Nick Cassidy, Lexus SuperGT factory driver & Kondo Super Formula driver, SuperGT race winner

---

The question is, with 31 different countries having managed to develop at least 1 Formula One driver since Mike Thackwell, and 15 having representants this year as well - how, then, do the Kiwis never manage to produce F1 drivers anymore, even though they were a major motor racing powerhouse in the sixties? It seems like each of the NZ prospects, regardless of their potential, eventually ends up on a dead end seat in GP2 without a proper team connection in F1 - or alternatively, fails to get into the F1 ladder at all. They appear to be the polar opposite of Finland - since Keke's breakthrough, and largely thanks to his management, every single decent Finnish prospect on the junior ladder (apart from Vainio arguably) has not only ended up into F1, but also, eventually gotten at least a shot in a car that was title-fight capable.

Wonder if it would be different had Bruce McLaren survived his crash, since he seemed keen on the other NZ drivers? Which other countries have a particularly good or a particularly weak ratio of converting their prospects into F1 rides?
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by watka »

To be fair, the same can be said for Australia. in 40 years, there's been Jones, Webber, Ricciardo, and the Brabham brothers who were arguably only there because of their surname.

Can't shed any light on the reason other than that there seems to be so many classes of junior series these days that it's harder to get noticed. Alongside that, maybe sponsors are more interested in associating themselves with drivers coming from bigger markets like Europe, South America and Asia; Australasia is a really small market in comparison.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by girry »

True - Australia, too, had a steady supply of F1 drivers until Alan Jones, but suddenly after him, the Aussies really seemed to begin to struggle to make it to F1. One could argue neither of the younger Brabhams, nor Skaife, Ingall etc. got a fair shot in Europe and therefore got directed back to homeland too early in their careers. The generation after them was just slightly luckier: for one Webber who was finally turned into a success story by exceptionally hard work and Paul Stoddart, there were the Brights, Davisons, Ambroses and Nguyens who didn't get a proper break, Lowndes who had an odd one season seat in Marko's F3000 outfit for his touring car performances but couldn't deliver, Briscoe & Power who got redirected from the F1 ladder to the States because of their sponsorship/manufacturer affiliations, and Courtney who broke his leg at the wrong time.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Wallio »

The general consensus (of which I too am a part of) is DRS is a gimmick.

Looking over today's finalized DTM rules however, I think they cracked it. You can only activate DRS during 12 laps. There are 3 zones a lap so you only have 36 deployments. The strategy is picking and choosing when to dump the wing.

I'd be ok with a similar system in F1.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by pasta_maldonado »

Wallio wrote:The general consensus (of which I too am a part of) is DRS is a gimmick.

Looking over today's finalized DTM rules however, I think they cracked it. You can only activate DRS during 12 laps. There are 3 zones a lap so you only have 36 deployments. The strategy is picking and choosing when to dump the wing.

I'd be ok with a similar system in F1.

Adding to that, I think that unlimited DRS use in qualifying should be brought back - who has the balls to open it that little bit earlier.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Wallio »

pasta_maldonado wrote:Adding to that, I think that unlimited DRS use in qualifying should be brought back - who has the balls to open it that little bit earlier.


YES!

That would actaully be my "dream" DRS system for the race too. You get X deployments, and can use them anywhere, anytime, as long as you are within 1-sec.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by mario »

giraurd wrote:True - Australia, too, had a steady supply of F1 drivers until Alan Jones, but suddenly after him, the Aussies really seemed to begin to struggle to make it to F1. One could argue neither of the younger Brabhams, nor Skaife, Ingall etc. got a fair shot in Europe and therefore got directed back to homeland too early in their careers. The generation after them was just slightly luckier: for one Webber who was finally turned into a success story by exceptionally hard work and Paul Stoddart, there were the Brights, Davisons, Ambroses and Nguyens who didn't get a proper break, Lowndes who had an odd one season seat in Marko's F3000 outfit for his touring car performances but couldn't deliver, Briscoe & Power who got redirected from the F1 ladder to the States because of their sponsorship/manufacturer affiliations, and Courtney who broke his leg at the wrong time.

My initial gut feeling is that one reason would be cost inflation in junior series, compounded by the relatively low economic importance of the Australian and New Zealand markets.

We've seen how some drivers from other comparatively small nations have sometimes found it hard to raise sponsorship to continue racing - even in F1, there was some suggestion that Magnussen lost his seat at McLaren because he couldn't raise any sponsorship, whilst Rosberg gave interviews in junior series where he stated that he raced as a German national simply because it opened up a much larger and richer group of potential sponsors.

If you look at Webber, even with the amount of work that he put in, his junior career nearly fizzled out due to a lack of funding; as you mention in your post, Briscoe and Power ended up going into IndyCAR racing because the backing they could get pushed them in that direction. Comparatively speaking, it is probably harder and costlier for an Australian to compete in Europe these days than in the past, yet fundraising is probably as hard, if not harder, than before.

Added to that, it looks like a lot of the national racing series have been pushed to the margins in favour of a few international series, particularly as the FIA has been trying to consolidate series to create a much more clearly defined path through to the top motorsport series.

Formula Four seems to be pushing out Formula Ford, whilst a lot of Formula 3 series have either been downgraded in status or vanished altogether as GP3 has grown in favour. The Australian Formula Ford series, although still running, has effectively been displaced by Formula 4 - however, with the Australian Formula 3 series being downgraded to a local series and now being out of sync with the major European series, it doesn't really open any opportunities in Europe.

The Japanese Formula 3 series is similar in that respect - it used to be very common for drivers to race in that series too, but it is now much rarer to see drivers come from that series into F1. I think that Ericsson is the most recent driver who raced in the Japanese Formula 3 series (in 2009) that has made it into F1, but even then the stint in the Japanese Formula 3 series was a stepping stone into first the now defunct Asian GP2 series and then the main GP2 series, from which he jumped into F1.

Whereas, in the past, national series could potentially open up opportunities to other series or act as a gateway into F1 in their own right, now the Australian national series are disconnected from the championships in Europe as GP3 and the renamed Formula 2 series have been turned by the FIA into the only possible route into F1 - series which also happened to be the most expensive ones to compete in, compounding the fundraising issues even more.

At the same time, it feels as if the FIA has rather narrowed their focus on the world of motorsport - the routes into the top ranks of motorsport are now heavily biased towards a few key European racing series, with those national series being left to atrophy. I expect that the Australian market is, in many ways, little more than an afterthought to them.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

Wallio wrote:
pasta_maldonado wrote:Adding to that, I think that unlimited DRS use in qualifying should be brought back - who has the balls to open it that little bit earlier.


YES!

That would actaully be my "dream" DRS system for the race too. You get X deployments, and can use them anywhere, anytime, as long as you are within 1-sec.

What I would like is the boost system of IndyCar. A certain number of seconds to use anywhere, in any number of pushes, wherever the others are. If you have to close off a zone here or there for safety, that's fine, but considering where the zones usually are that probably won't be something that'll happen often.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Wallio »

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:What I would like is the boost system of IndyCar. A certain number of seconds to use anywhere, in any number of pushes, wherever the others are.


My only problem with that is, it will increase the hyper-reliability we all hate. Engine manufacturers will just de-tune there engines "base" power, so the boost is actually what we have now. You see it already to an extent, with Merc and Ferrari having "quali" tunes, that never get run after Saturdays,
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

Wallio wrote:
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:What I would like is the boost system of IndyCar. A certain number of seconds to use anywhere, in any number of pushes, wherever the others are.


My only problem with that is, it will increase the hyper-reliability we all hate. Engine manufacturers will just de-tune there engines "base" power, so the boost is actually what we have now. You see it already to an extent, with Merc and Ferrari having "quali" tunes, that never get run after Saturdays,

That was a bad choice of words. I meant "boost system" in a very generic way, as a general term for push to pass, DRS, etc.. The boosts would still be DRS.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by DonTirri »

Screw DRS and all other gimmicks. Tune the rules so that the cars won't be so sensitive to the "dirty air" that the car in front creates and we don't need any stupid passing gimmicks.

Also, Steel instead of Carbon Brakes.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

DonTirri wrote:Screw DRS and all other gimmicks. Tune the rules so that the cars won't be so sensitive to the "dirty air" that the car in front creates and we don't need any stupid passing gimmicks.

Also, Steel instead of Carbon Brakes.

Well, yeah, obviously not having lasagna wings in the first place would be ideal. But even by the standards of what we're already talking about that feels like dreaming.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Enforcer »

Killing the dirty air effect would be the best thing you could do to promote overtaking in F1.

Except given the resourcefulness of the average F1 aerodynamicist, to do it you'd need to ban front wings and regulate the shape and size of every part of the car that's in front of the driver's position. And regulate it down the millimeter.

And even then they'd probably still find ways to control the airflow around the car to produce downforce that'd be disturbed if you're in the same postcode as another car.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by The Chicane »

Sometimes I wonder if the McLaren Formula One Team would still be around today if Bruce McLaren never died and if it was never sold to Ron Dennis?
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Re: Ponderbox

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The Chicane wrote:Sometimes I wonder if the McLaren Formula One Team would still be around today if Bruce McLaren never died and if it was never sold to Ron Dennis?

To be brutally honest I doubt it. Love him or hate him Dennis crafted something incredible out of McLaren, I think his teams history speaks for itself (good and bad). You never know for sure but my feeling is that Mclaren would've gone the way of those other legendary teams like Tyrell and Lotus both of whom, during their imperial phases, you couldn't imagine not being in F1.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by The Chicane »

CoopsII wrote:
The Chicane wrote:Sometimes I wonder if the McLaren Formula One Team would still be around today if Bruce McLaren never died and if it was never sold to Ron Dennis?

To be brutally honest I doubt it. Love him or hate him Dennis crafted something incredible out of McLaren, I think his teams history speaks for itself (good and bad). You never know for sure but my feeling is that Mclaren would've gone the way of those other legendary teams like Tyrell and Lotus both of whom, during their imperial phases, you couldn't imagine not being in F1.


I could see McLaren lasting until the late 80's maybe early 90's and go under in similar fashion to Brabham or Lotus.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by mario »

The Chicane wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
The Chicane wrote:Sometimes I wonder if the McLaren Formula One Team would still be around today if Bruce McLaren never died and if it was never sold to Ron Dennis?

To be brutally honest I doubt it. Love him or hate him Dennis crafted something incredible out of McLaren, I think his teams history speaks for itself (good and bad). You never know for sure but my feeling is that Mclaren would've gone the way of those other legendary teams like Tyrell and Lotus both of whom, during their imperial phases, you couldn't imagine not being in F1.


I could see McLaren lasting until the late 80's maybe early 90's and go under in similar fashion to Brabham or Lotus.

It is hard to tell how Bruce McLaren might have managed the team in later years and what changes might have occurred under his management.

If we go with the timeline of Teddy Mayer managing the team until the early 1980's, I suspect that, if Mayer had refused Marlboro's request to merge the team with Ron Dennis's team, Marlboro might well have chosen to break their ties with McLaren altogether.

Marlboro may then have taken one of two paths - either put enough investment into Ron Dennis's team to help it make the leap into F1 by itself, or perhaps they might have focussed their investment into the Alfa Romeo team (given they were sponsoring them as well in the early 1980's) - out of the two, I think that the former is probably the more likely option. With the backing of Marlboro, plus that of Ojjeh's TAG-Group, I suspect that Ron may have ended up taking a similar career trajectory.

As for McLaren itself, I suspect that the loss of their main sponsor would probably have seen the team fall fall back even further quite quickly. They would probably have struggled to get a turbo engine in the early 1980's - perhaps using the Hart 415T instead - and I agree that they might well have ended up running into bankruptcy in the mid to late 1980's or early 1990's.

The upshot is that, overall, we might well still see a team that had been run by Ron Dennis on the grid today, just being called something different rather than being called McLaren.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by thor97 »

I remember in 2014 or early 2015 when Haas was just announced i remember that in some articles i read like this one http://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/04/romania-forza-rossa-2016-f1-report/
that a team by the name of Forza Rossa was given a spot but they never turned up
does anyone know what happened to them and if this article is even telling the truth?
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Wallio »

DonTirri wrote:
Also, Steel instead of Carbon Brakes.


This would make no difference whatsoever. Steve Matchett talks about it quite a bit in his books. The FIA threatened to ban carbon brakes a few times during the '90s so Benetton conducted a few tests with steel brakes. Braking distances were within 10 meters or so. The only real advantage carbon brakes give is weight. They lower the CoG and nearly eliminate unsprung weight. Thats it.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by ibsey »

Wallio wrote:
DonTirri wrote:
Also, Steel instead of Carbon Brakes.


This would make no difference whatsoever. Steve Matchett talks about it quite a bit in his books. The FIA threatened to ban carbon brakes a few times during the '90s so Benetton conducted a few tests with steel brakes. Braking distances were within 10 meters or so. The only real advantage carbon brakes give is weight. They lower the CoG and nearly eliminate unsprung weight. Thats it.


I agree with Wallio, because I remember during the 1999 German GP ITV commentary Brundle said Alex Zanardi was trying steel brakes instead of Carbon as a desperate measure to get used to F1 cars. IIRC Zanardi had been using Steel brakes in Indycar hence why he was more used to them. Just checked Wiki and Zanardi's performance that weekend wasn't different compared to his other performances apart from Spa & Monza when he briefly shined.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by mario »

ibsey wrote:
Wallio wrote:
DonTirri wrote:
Also, Steel instead of Carbon Brakes.


This would make no difference whatsoever. Steve Matchett talks about it quite a bit in his books. The FIA threatened to ban carbon brakes a few times during the '90s so Benetton conducted a few tests with steel brakes. Braking distances were within 10 meters or so. The only real advantage carbon brakes give is weight. They lower the CoG and nearly eliminate unsprung weight. Thats it.


I agree with Wallio, because I remember during the 1999 German GP ITV commentary Brundle said Alex Zanardi was trying steel brakes instead of Carbon as a desperate measure to get used to F1 cars. IIRC Zanardi had been using Steel brakes in Indycar hence why he was more used to them. Just checked Wiki and Zanardi's performance that weekend wasn't different compared to his other performances apart from Spa & Monza when he briefly shined.

I have a recollection that the Jaguar F1 team also ran a back to back comparison and found very similar results - the overall stopping distance didn't alter significantly, with the main advantages coming from reducing the unsprung weight and a slight drag advantage from being able to use smaller brake ducts (given that carbon brakes have a higher working temperature range).
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Dom_Wings »

So, I was just casually watching the TV, until I noticed some guy called Davide Valsecchi did some autocross racing in Nova Paka in the Czech Republic last weekend... and he did well, he finished 3rd in the top class.

HOWISPOSSIBLE!?!?!?

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Re: Ponderbox

Post by dr-baker »

It's the month of May, Senna and Prost are racing in Monaco while an F1 Championship winner prepares to compete in the Indy 500. Is it the early 1990s again?
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Enforcer »

Palmer is so consistently poor that I'm wondering if Renault can't actually run 2 cars to the same level of pace and are focusing on Hulkenberg's car.

Hulkenberg's been in around the points every week and Palmer's propped the grid up. I know Palmer's probably not F1 champion material and isn't as fast as his team-mate, but I'm hard pressed to believe he's this bad.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by watka »

Enforcer wrote:Palmer is so consistently poor that I'm wondering if Renault can't actually run 2 cars to the same level of pace and are focusing on Hulkenberg's car.

Hulkenberg's been in around the points every week and Palmer's propped the grid up. I know Palmer's probably not F1 champion material and isn't as fast as his team-mate, but I'm hard pressed to believe he's this bad.


It is strange that Palmer is so far off his team mate. I'd rate Hulkenberg as maybe the best of the drivers not quite deserving of a top seat, fast but not someone you'd expect to destroy their team mate every week. Palmer is constantly complaining about his car, so maybe the new regs just don't suit him. Not that it excuses him in my eyes; F1 is evolve or die.


On a different note, I'm wondering what to make of Esteban Ocon. On paper, his results so far are pretty exceptional. On the other hand, he hasn't yet shown signs of being able to beat Sergio Perez. I rate Perez pretty highly and I don't think he got his fair shot at McLaren, but I see him as more of a reliable driver and the lightning fast one, much like say Nick Heidfeld. If Ocon is following Perez home every race, that doesn't scream out to me "future superstar". However, I am very ready to be proven wrong. It's only 5 races into the season and if he beats Perez at Monaco, one of Checo's favourite tracks, then the doubts will probably dissolve fairly quickly.
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