What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

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Rocks with Salt
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What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Rocks with Salt »

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you this:

Image

The Track Board: A place to hypothesize which tracks will go on the chopping block, which ones will sneak by unnoticed, and which are immortal. All the current F1 circuits are here plus the four scheduled for a race in the coming years. The only track I felt had to automatically be put on the board was Monaco, because if Monaco isn't forever, then I don't know what is. I put this all together simply to create a place to discuss these tracks, rather than doing so at random on other threads. I will update this board if deemed necessary, but for the moment I want to get other people's opinions before I start placing other tracks on the board.

Thoughts?
Last edited by Rocks with Salt on 15 Oct 2010, 15:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by the Masked Lapwing »

The sooner Bore-rain and Valencia disappear, the better. And Aussie GP for Adelaide!
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Captain Hammer »

Rocks with Salt wrote:Thoughts?

You're assuming that races will be dropped because Bernie has said that 20 races is the maximum. But he's previously said that the most the calendar can hold is 16. The maximum number of races on the calendar is dictated by the Concorde Agreement, and a new one is up for negotiation in 2012. If Bernie wants more races, he'll get them.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Rocks with Salt »

Captain Hammer wrote:You're assuming that races will be dropped because Bernie has said that 20 races is the maximum. But he's previously said that the most the calendar can hold is 16. The maximum number of races on the calendar is dictated by the Concorde Agreement, and a new one is up for negotiation in 2012. If Bernie wants more races, he'll get them.

I was more referring to the tracks that are vulnerable because of other factors such as attendance figures and money than I was about Bernie's statements. Either way, you would assume with more races on the calendar comes either a reconfiguration of the race weekend to create more back-to-back races or some cutting of races. And quite frankly, I would hardly notice if Valencia disappeared, among others.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by P_Friesacher »

Sooooo, Felipe: This. posting. is longer. than. usual:

Monaco: As you said, forever.
Melbourne: Will probably be there for a few more years, but I don't really see a long term future - also beacuse the race is getting to expensive for the promoters and the city. Much as it pains me to say this, but I'm not sure F1 will stay in Australia at all after that.
Bahrain: Will probably stay there until the rulers lose interest. Which they won't for some time to come.
Abu Dhabu: same
Catalunya: Will probalby remain for some time as I think it is the less vulnerable of the two Spanish circuits and as long as Alonso and his many Spanish sponsors stay in F1 so will a Spanish track. The proximity to a big, stylish and somewhat well off city and the weather in Spain are also plusses.
Montreal: couldy, sadly, be dropped if the US Grand Prix is a success as it's only there at the moment because the manufacturers wanted a race in North America
Hockenheimring: seems to be the less vulnerable of the two German circuits. Not extremely well funded either, though. But F1 probably needs at leat one German race.
Budpest: Could well be dropped it the Russian race proves a success - if F1 only wants one race in "the East". If they take a few looks at a map and at the prospects of the economies in Eastern Europe in the long term they might well find that they want two.
Istanbul: Looks quite shaky. Bernie's financial stakes in it might save it, though.
Interlagos: will stay as long as there is no other suitable racetrack in South America
Korea: will depend on how thing turn out in a few days time...
Singapoe: Doesn't really need F1 and might well drop the race afer 2012 if Bernie won't give them a better deal than they have at the moment
Monza: Looks rather solid, but will depend if they can afford to host it in the long term, especially if that strange race in Rome really goes ahead.
Nürnburgring: Might well see it's last F1 race for some time in 2011.
Sepang: Will fulfill it's contract which runs until the middle of the 10s (if I'm not mistaken) - after that, it's anyone's guess. Leaving it would be a shame though, because it's one of the few Tilkodromes that are actually rather good. Probalby because it was bulit in cooperation with former F1 driver Marc Surer. Or so they keep saying on Sky Germany, where he now works as an (excellent!) expert/commentator.
Shanghai: Will probably stay because of the huge importance if the Cinese Market to the manufacturers. However, we have seen Bernie drop races in important markets (eg USA) if the terms are not to his liking - so it might be less save than it seems.
Silverstone: Has a contract until 2027 plus most teams' full support. So will probably stay.
Spa: Sadly, it doesn't look good. Might alternate with Hockenheim after the Nürnburgring's contract runs out, though.
Suzuka: With Japanese interest in F1 shrinking, it might be less save, than some might hope. But I still rather believe F1 will remain in Japan - and if it does, Suzuka is clearly the most likely venue.
Valencia: Universally disliked by almost everyone, and not well enough attended to make up for it. Might be among the first to go.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by AndreaModa »

P_Friesacher wrote:Montreal: couldy, sadly, be dropped if the US Grand Prix is a success as it's only there at the moment because the manufacturers wanted a race in North America


I think if anything, the race in the US will strengthen the standing of Montreal because at the moment as the sole North American race, the teams struggle to accept the viability of shipping everything over the Atlantic for one race in the middle of the European season. With two races on the continent, likely to be held over two or three weeks, I think Montreal (providing funding is okay) is a safe bet on the calender.

P_Friesacher wrote:Singapore: Doesn't really need F1 and might well drop the race afer 2012 if Bernie won't give them a better deal than they have at the moment


No they want F1 there that's for sure. The success not only of the 'night race' tag and the whole event in general makes the Singapore race one of the most successful of the recent new tracks F1 has been to. Definately here to stay for the forseeable future in my opinion.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Waris »

I had actually been thinking about this, and came up with the idea of having set circuits rotate every year for one spot on the calendar, like Nürburgring/Hockenheimring. It's probably not feasible in reality, but it's a good way of creating fantasy calendars with not too many rounds.

By the way, I think Silverstone, Spa Francorchamps and Monza should at least be in the 'Forever' category, and probably Montréal, Interlagos and Suzuka as well.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Captain Hammer »

Waris wrote:By the way, I think Silverstone, Spa Francorchamps and Monza should at least be in the 'Forever' category, and probably Montréal, Interlagos and Suzuka as well.

It's not a case of what should happen, but of what will happen.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by patrick »

Great track board!
Silverstone is definately one of the safest, along with Monza. There will always be a race in Italy as long as Ferrari is around. I thought Rome was just a rumour though?
First against the wall - Spa for sure, maybe Melbourne, Suzuka, Istanbul. The Germans are struggling for money too. Interlagos if they go for another South American country/track.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Waris »

Captain Hammer wrote:
Waris wrote:By the way, I think Silverstone, Spa Francorchamps and Monza should at least be in the 'Forever' category, and probably Montréal, Interlagos and Suzuka as well.

It's not a case of what should happen, but of what will happen.


I know, I know... I just can't make any valid predictions as to that, and it saddens me that what I want to happen isn't always the most likely.

patrick wrote:I thought Rome was just a rumour though?


It was pretty much confirmed that there will be a race in Rome, but it might be in 2013 rather than 2012.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Ed24 »

For me, these three are the most likely to go

Turkey - I would say its definitely gone after 2011.
Korea - I can't see it lasting long. Its a long way away from major civilisation and I don't think it will get the local support to continue.
Valencia - Logically, no country should have two races when others are missing out. But then again, Bernie wants a Rome GP.

I think these are more safe though

Australia - The future at Albert Park is possibly in doubt, but if that falls over, they are renovating Calder and could run it there at night potentially.
Suzuka - Kobayashi might save it with an increase in Japanese interest. Apparently Honda are considering re-entering F1 in 2013 if turbos come in, and that would seal the track's future considering that they own it.
Spa - Not so certain, but I think it might eventually escape the axe - its just the usual cycle of Spa losing money and trying to get Bernie to lower the fees I think.
Shanghai - I think Bernie will keep it on the calendar due to the large Chinese market.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by madmark1974 »

As I remember, and I've not double-checked it, but didn't Valencia and Hungaroring sign long-term contract extensions recently?

Though I guess Bernie could find some way of getting out of those if required ...
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by bighaydo »

Bernie will probably send his circus to whatever country is willing to divert taxpayer resources to fund it, but I suppose there was a reason for the Global Survey conducted at the end of 2009 and I hope it was to find out what the fans wanted from a market research perspective... but knowing how subversive the decision making can be in this sport I doubt it counts for much!

Anyway, the top 10 were:
1. Monaco (52.0%)
2. Italy (50.6%)
3. Britan (42.9%)
4. Germany (38.8%)
5. Belgium (29.4%)
6. Brazil (27.1%)
7. France (25.2%)
8. USA (23.9%)
9. Japan (23.4%)
10. Australia (22.6%)

(and yet we go to Spain twice a year? :?: )
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Shizuka »

Melbourne - Might stay for 2-3 years. Adelaide is out of context I guess, sadly. What about Bathurst? ...Wait, the S-turn on the hill somewhere in the middle (I forgot the corner name, sorry, remembering it from TOCA: World Touring Cars PS1) could be dangerous for them.
Bahrain - Only a few years. New layout was FAIL.
Catalunya - Test circuit. Will stay as long as there isn't a better Spanish circuit.
Montreal - Will get the boot. Even though this has given us really chaotic races. Remember 2007, 2008. 2000. And of course 1999 to some extent. And 1998. And 1997...
Hockenheimring - New layout is boring to some extent. No chance of using the old. Will stay however.
Hungaroring - It ALWAYS was the track to get the boot and it's been there for 25 years. Unlikely to get dropped! And I'm not saying this because I'm Hungarian.
Istanbul - Last race pretty soon. Only Turn 8 makes it famous.
Interlagos - Till South-America doesn't get a new, modern and interesting circuit, will stay. Would see a race in Jacarepaguá.
Korea - Might be only for a few years.
Monza - Ferrari.
Monaco - Forever.
Nürburgring - Nothing special, Hockenheim will stay, this one will not.
Sepang - Will stay for a while.
Shanghai - Will stay.
Silverstone - Will stay. Although I would see F1 in Snetterton! Or Oulton Park!
Spa - Will get dropped later on, but this circuit needs to stay.
Suzuka - Won't really stay if there's no interest. Sugo would be a good try to race on.
Valencia - Boring. Will get dropped.
Abu Dhabi - Till interest is there.

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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by TomWazzleshaw »

Shizuka wrote:Melbourne - Might stay for 2-3 years. Adelaide is out of context I guess, sadly. What about Bathurst? ...Wait, the S-turn on the hill somewhere in the middle (I forgot the corner name, sorry, remembering it from TOCA: World Touring Cars PS1) could be dangerous for them.


You mean the Dipper? But year most of the run down the hill is nigh-on impossible in an open wheeler with the low ride-height and all... I wouldn't mind seeing F1 at Surfers just for a one-off event to see how it goes.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Shizuka »

Wizzie wrote:You mean the Dipper? But year most of the run down the hill is nigh-on impossible in an open wheeler with the low ride-height and all... I wouldn't mind seeing F1 at Surfers just for a one-off event to see how it goes.


Yes, the Dipper. Thanks! :)
And Surfers Paradise. Now that would be a really attrition-filled race. I'd see that!

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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Khausen Effect »

My suspicion is that any event that can afford to have a Grand Prix will get one, and the number of Grand Prix will increase. In order to keep the number of 'working days' abroad down, the duration of a Grand Prix weekend will be shortened.

The worry is that if any tracks get the boot, it's likely to be one that's a keeper as far as the fans are concerned.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by madmark1974 »

[quote="Shizuka"]Silverstone - Will stay. Although I would see F1 in Snetterton! Or Oulton Park![quote]

Lotus F1 cars ran at Snetterton earlier this year, including this year's car, as per my post in this old thread :

http://f1rejects.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600&start=30#p61453

Sadly, except for Silverstone, no other UK circuit is going to be able to host F1 without major investment, like Donington was supposed to have had...
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by bighaydo »

Shizuka wrote:
Wizzie wrote:You mean the Dipper? But year most of the run down the hill is nigh-on impossible in an open wheeler with the low ride-height and all... I wouldn't mind seeing F1 at Surfers just for a one-off event to see how it goes.


Yes, the Dipper. Thanks! :)
And Surfers Paradise. Now that would be a really attrition-filled race. I'd see that!


I remember Eddie Irvine saying that Bathurst would be a great circuit for Formula One... if you didn't mind dying!

Would love to see F1 @ Surfer's if Melbourne goes (which with the costs and everything would leave Vic if Albert Park were to shut up shop). Track would be pretty dangerous though, but there would be no bigger party anywhere on the F1 calendar... Neel Jani also said it was the hardest street track he had ever driven.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by the Masked Lapwing »

Shizuka wrote:
Wizzie wrote:You mean the Dipper? But year most of the run down the hill is nigh-on impossible in an open wheeler with the low ride-height and all... I wouldn't mind seeing F1 at Surfers just for a one-off event to see how it goes.


Yes, the Dipper. Thanks! :)
And Surfers Paradise. Now that would be a really attrition-filled race. I'd see that!

Have it in October, too, so that the V8s either:
a) don't go there anymore (yay); or
b) have a non-championship round (like at Albert Park) (which is pointless).
But the crashes at any of the hundred or so chicanes would be epic!
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Phoenix »

For me, the most vulnerable seem to be Spa (d'oh!), either Nürburgring or Hockenheimring, Turkey (d'oh!) and Valencia (yay!). The Rome GP I believe can spell doom for Valencia, as I can see it pretty clearly taking over the European GP role.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by dr-baker »

madmark1974 wrote:
Shizuka wrote:Silverstone - Will stay. Although I would see F1 in Snetterton! Or Oulton Park!


Lotus F1 cars ran at Snetterton earlier this year, including this year's car, as per my post in this old thread :

http://f1rejects.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600&start=30#p61453

Sadly, except for Silverstone, no other UK circuit is going to be able to host F1 without major investment, like Donington was supposed to have had...

Snetterton is receiving major investment over the next few years to bring it up to... Grade 2, suitable for everything BUT F1. Jonathan Palmer is seeking to get series like SuperLeague and DTM there. I am sad about that because, unless there is a double-header, that means Brands would start loosing out. :cry:

Phoenix wrote:The Rome GP I believe can spell doom for Valencia, as I can see it pretty clearly taking over the European GP role.

No, it'll be the Vatican GP, in the same way Imola was the San Marino GP, won't it?
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Phoenix »

dr-baker wrote:
Phoenix wrote:The Rome GP I believe can spell doom for Valencia, as I can see it pretty clearly taking over the European GP role.

No, it'll be the Vatican GP, in the same way Imola was the San Marino GP, won't it?

Look, I really want Valencia out of the F1 calendar, don't sink my boat.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Enforcer »

Montreal is the most precarious in my book. The US GP will secure a North American date on the calendar from 2012 and I could see Montreal going soon after.

Spa's been in trouble before, could go. We'd all hate that.

Hockenheim or the Nurburgring could drop out when the 'sharing' deal they have expires, with just one of them being preferred. Although that wouldn't free up space in the calendar. Can't see there not being a German GP with Vettel, Sutil, Rosberg and Hulkenberg likely to be providing a competitive German presence on the grid for the next few years.

Not sure about Budapest, the allure of needing an Eastern European GP will be diminished with a Russian GP, but it always seems to survive.

Could lose a Spanish race, but as long as Fernando keep raking in the crowds it's not overly likely. If one goes it will obviously be Valencia. Although Circuit de SNOREaluyna going probably wouldn't upset too many fans.

I don't see any of the Middle and Far Eastern races disappearing off the calendar any time soon unless something cataclysmic happens to one of them.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by dr-baker »

Phoenix wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
Phoenix wrote:The Rome GP I believe can spell doom for Valencia, as I can see it pretty clearly taking over the European GP role.

No, it'll be the Vatican GP, in the same way Imola was the San Marino GP, won't it?

Look, I really want Valencia out of the F1 calendar, don't sink my boat.

Ok, let's not have a European GP at all. Let it become an honourific title as it used to be in the early days of the F1 championship. Does this solve the issue?
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by f1-gast »

The formula 1 should come back on the european tracks and not in Hangkangpang and honkitonki countries.... nice for mister ecclestoned that he can make more money (oh im so poor i had to give 1miljard euro to my ex wife but i got already made a profit of 2 miljard), but i hate it !
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Rocks with Salt »

Alright, based on what's been said so far, I've updated the board to include all tracks except Montreal and Korea. To be honest, Montreal is a mystery to me since it will either be reinforced or discarded with the coming of the US Grand Prix in 2012, and I'm not sure which path to follow. How has its attendance and cash figures been as of late? If they're staying financially afloat, then I don't see any reason why it wouldn't stay.

As I updated the Board, I couldn't help but think that Hungary and Interlagos should be put under the 'Forever' column, due to their circumstances. Interlagos is the only South American GP on the calendar and has been for years, which means that unless Argentina decides to show up again, Brazil might actually be forever. With Hungary, maybe it's just a gut feeling, but I think it's here to stay; maybe it'll be diluted by Russia in 2014, but since it has given us some pretty decent races over its lifespan, I think it is either under the 'Forever' category or it is definitely trying to break its way into it.

As for the upcoming races, I don't know what to think of them. To be honest, I'd be fine if Valencia stayed under the 'European Grand Prix' moniker just to see the Rome Grand Prix run as the 'Vatican Grand Prix' (Desperate plea from a guy who wants to see the Popemobile be the SC! :D). Otherwise, I can see Valencia being discarded in favor of Rome very easily.

With regards to the Indian Grand Prix next year, I was watching the Colbert Report yesterday, and he did a story on the Commonwealth Games occurring in India and all the problems they've suffered as of late: Swimmers catching diarrhea from the pool, random monkey attacks, snakes in athletes' rooms, sinkholes, and structurally unsound bridges. I'm really beginning to think India will be discarded within a few years because of similar reasons; I just can't see the track slipping by without some sort of engineering failure, like the tarmac wearing away or something.

Thoughts on the updated board?
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Salamander »

Rocks with Salt wrote:With regards to the Indian Grand Prix next year, I was watching the Colbert Report yesterday, and he did a story on the Commonwealth Games occurring in India and all the problems they've suffered as of late: Swimmers catching diarrhea from the pool, random monkey attacks, snakes in athletes' rooms, sinkholes, and structurally unsound bridges. I'm really beginning to think India will be discarded within a few years because of similar reasons; I just can't see the track slipping by without some sort of engineering failure, like the tarmac wearing away or something.


Tarmac wearing away never stopped Montreal. Besides, I think the Colbert Report is satirical - I'm pretty sure most of those things didn't actually happen. Though I do know the pool was a bit shite.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Benetton »

Has anyone though about the possibly scenario that more rounds in the championship will make the championship more even. Let's say that last season would have been 2-3 races longer, and Button-Vettel would have gone down to the wire IMO.. I just thought about this. I'm just basing it on the fact that no team can have the upper hand so long + without making mistakes.. well, except for Renault/Alonso class of 2005
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by jpm »

P_Friesacher wrote:Sooooo, Felipe: This. posting. is longer. than. usual:

Monaco: As you said, forever.Would have to agree
Melbourne: Will probably be there for a few more years, but I don't really see a long term future - also beacuse the race is getting to expensive for the promoters and the city. Much as it pains me to say this, but I'm not sure F1 will stay in Australia at all after that.Disagree, Oz is definitely an enthusiatically backed race and needs to stay for F1 to be considered a world championship
Bahrain: Will probably stay there until the rulers lose interest. Which they won't for some time to come.Rubbish track but Bernie neeeds the money
Abu Dhabu: sameLike this track, certainly has more USP's than Bahrain, and a more exciting track than Singapore
Catalunya: Will probalby remain for some time as I think it is the less vulnerable of the two Spanish circuits and as long as Alonso and his many Spanish sponsors stay in F1 so will a Spanish track. The proximity to a big, stylish and somewhat well off city and the weather in Spain are also plusses.same as Bahrain, a dull race which is undeserving of a calendar place because evryone knows it like the back of their hand
Montreal: couldy, sadly, be dropped if the US Grand Prix is a success as it's only there at the moment because the manufacturers wanted a race in North AmericaCracking track! Should definately not be lost, having had so many great races iin times past
Hockenheimring: seems to be the less vulnerable of the two German circuits. Not extremely well funded either, though. But F1 probably needs at leat one German race.Good track, arena layout is good for fans
Budpest: Could well be dropped it the Russian race proves a success - if F1 only wants one race in "the East". If they take a few looks at a map and at the prospects of the economies in Eastern Europe in the long term they might well find that they want two.zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Istanbul: Looks quite shaky. Bernie's financial stakes in it might save it, though.scene of rbr maelstrom, but little else
Interlagos: will stay as long as there is no other suitable racetrack in South AmericaYep, in total agreement there
Korea: will depend on how thing turn out in a few days time...as far as f1 2010 on ps3 goes, it could be a bore!
Singapore: Doesn't really need F1 and might well drop the race afer 2012 if Bernie won't give them a better deal than they have at the momentrubbish tracka and only usp takemn by abu dhabi
Monza: Looks rather solid, but will depend if they can afford to host it in the long term, especially if that strange race in Rome really goes ahead.one of the classics that should never go
Nürnburgring: Might well see it's last F1 race for some time in 2011.same as monza
Sepang: Will fulfill it's contract which runs until the middle of the 10s (if I'm not mistaken) - after that, it's anyone's guess. Leaving it would be a shame though, because it's one of the few Tilkodromes that are actually rather good. Probalby because it was bulit in cooperation with former F1 driver Marc Surer. Or so they keep saying on Sky Germany, where he now works as an (excellent!) expert/commentator.Like the track, but is better when it rains!!!
Shanghai: Will probably stay because of the huge importance if the Cinese Market to the manufacturers. However, we have seen Bernie drop races in important markets (eg USA) if the terms are not to his liking - so it might be less save than it seems. same as malaysia
Silverstone: Has a contract until 2027 plus most teams' full support. So will probably stay.new starting straight should make racing more interesting; can't wait for carnage at the Loop!
Spa: Sadly, it doesn't look good. Might alternate with Hockenheim after the Nürnburgring's contract runs out, though.MUST MUST MUST! 2002 was a dsisater and can't be alowed to happen again
Suzuka: With Japanese interest in F1 shrinking, it might be less save, than some might hope. But I still rather believe F1 will remain in Japan - and if it does, Suzuka is clearly the most likely venue.greatest driving track left in f1
Valencia: Universally disliked by almost everyone, and not well enough attended to make up for it. Might be among the first to go.
i actually like this track, but they could do with altering the track profile to provide better overtaking. good for a street track to be so wide though
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QuickYoda41
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by QuickYoda41 »

Somebody mentioned German tracks in danger - I can't see F-1 moving away from Germany with half a dozen (or more) home drivers and a manufacturer.
I think, unfortunately only good tracks are in danger. Montreal (maybe can be saved with some Villeneuve-help, but it wasn't accidentelly left out last year :( ) or Spa.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by AndreaModa »

The attendance for Montreal this year however was enormous, and much was made that weekend about the high amount of people there. It served as a good reminder of just how popular F1 is in Canada.

However something that also falls in it's favour is it's location compared to the new track at Austin. Now everyone knows that Texas is in or around the south -south west of the USA, whereas if my geography is correct (it should be, I'm doing a degree in it!) Montreal is quite close to the border with the US and therefore not only serves the most densely populated region of Canada, but also most of north eastern USA too which as everyone knows, is also very heavily populated. Of course it's not just a simple drive over there for Americans, but it could be a cheap short haul flight, and with F1 ticket prices being what they are, north-eastern Americans are surely more likely to choose the cheaper option of Montreal rather than fly across the whole country to get to Austin.
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Jeroen Krautmeir
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Jeroen Krautmeir »

Well, in the end, it'll come down to which ones are the most gainly in the financial sense. Bernie usually doesn't give a bathplug about how popular tracks are, but there can be exceptions, and I'm pretty sure that he kept Monaco because without it, F1 is not really F1. As much as I hate to say it, Spa is definitely the most vulnerable at the moment. When the tobacco companies were forced out, Spa really had nowhere to ask for money, with the government generally being quite uncooperative (correct me if wrong tommy). Next are probably the two German tracks, Hockenheim and Nurburgring. Both have no money, Mercedes doesn't care about its 'raped track', nor do most die-hard F1 fans. Germany probably will still have a race, but probably at only the Nurburgring, as its still good for racing, and has just a tad more money than Hockenheim. As much as I'd hate to see Hockenheim go, well, serves the FIA right for making Tilke re-design the damn thing. And then, there's Montreal. I agree with many on you on this point, where, if the US Grand Prix is a success, we will be seeing the Canadian GP go goodbye, even though the attendance there was quite high this year. After that, Turkey. The one circuit where Tilke kind of gets it right, and they put it in the wrong country. Where the heck has Petrol Ofisi gone? If their still acting behind the scenes, then good, but it really doesn't look good, and we could be wishing Istanbul Park farewell after 2011. I'm not really sure if Valencia is actually giving Bernie anything in terms of money, but generally, the public isn't really happy with it, and perhaps we could see its contract terminated. Hungary tends to be boring, but can be amazing in terms of one-off race happenings, and so it'll stay. Singabore, may be boring, but it'll likely stay due to its status as a night race. Monza will not go out for any reason whatsoever, as Ferrari would then pull out and head to IndyCar :D . Monaco is there forever because its 'the jewel in the crown', and, that's about it, in terms of tracks likely staying. All the others are all vulnerable, but sadly the classic tracks are more endangered than the new ones...
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Jordan192 »

dr-baker wrote:that means Brands would start loosing out. :cry:

If i may mildly sidetrack, I almost get the feeling that Palmer's preparing for the possibility that, at some point in the next 5-10 years, either economic or safety reasons may force Brands to shut down the GP loop for good - Leaving MSV to look elsewhere (well, Snetterton) or be left without a flagship International-grade venue
Even without full-blown closure, the current noise restrictions at Brands are severe enough that simply maintaining the GP loop as it is is already on something of a knifedge economically speaking.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by dr-baker »

Jordan192 wrote:
dr-baker wrote:that means Brands would start loosing out. :cry:

If i may mildly sidetrack, I almost get the feeling that Palmer's preparing for the possibility that, at some point in the next 5-10 years, either economic or safety reasons may force Brands to shut down the GP loop for good - Leaving MSV to look elsewhere (well, Snetterton) or be left without a flagship International-grade venue
Even without full-blown closure, the current noise restrictions at Brands are severe enough that simply maintaining the GP loop as it is is already on something of a knifedge economically speaking.

Having said that, the Indy loop still hosts a number of events each year. The DTM itself uses the Indy loop as well as the BTCC for one of its two visits each year, as do a number of other race meetings. But I know somebody who goes to watch bike racing at Brands and always heads round to Pilgrim's Drop to watch. It'll be a shame but the safety of it does need some thought.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by P_Friesacher »

And, to be honest: As sorry as I am for you, dr-baker, and as much as I like the GP loop - I don't think series like Superleague or Formula 2 should still race there. Henry Surtees' accident was not caused by any saftey faults specific to the track, and als Chris van der Drift's crash might just as well have happened somewhere else. But as a whole I don't really think Brands Hatch GP is suitable for this kind of racing series any more. But it will always be a great track for touring cars!
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by TomWazzleshaw »

AndreaModa wrote:However something that also falls in it's favour is it's location compared to the new track at Austin. Now everyone knows that Texas is in or around the south -south west of the USA, whereas if my geography is correct (it should be, I'm doing a degree in it!) Montreal is quite close to the border with the US and therefore not only serves the most densely populated region of Canada, but also most of north eastern USA too which as everyone knows, is also very heavily populated. Of course it's not just a simple drive over there for Americans, but it could be a cheap short haul flight, and with F1 ticket prices being what they are, north-eastern Americans are surely more likely to choose the cheaper option of Montreal rather than fly across the whole country to get to Austin.


If my geography is correct Montreal is only about an hour's flight away from Boston and not that far away from Detroit and Toronto so you're pretty much on the money. And Texas is alot closer to the center of America than the SouthWest... I've flown to Austin from New York and LA on Flight Sim and it's about a 3 hour flight either way.

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Monza will not go out for any reason whatsoever, as Ferrari would then pull out and head to Le Mans


Fixed. IndyCar won't make sense to Ferrari unless they can make the entire car in-house which the current regulations don't allow.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Jeroen Krautmeir »

^I was just referring to the time went they nearly went to the States in the 80s :P . But yes, Le Mans is far more realistic.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by thehemogoblin »

Wizzie wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:However something that also falls in it's favour is it's location compared to the new track at Austin. Now everyone knows that Texas is in or around the south -south west of the USA, whereas if my geography is correct (it should be, I'm doing a degree in it!) Montreal is quite close to the border with the US and therefore not only serves the most densely populated region of Canada, but also most of north eastern USA too which as everyone knows, is also very heavily populated. Of course it's not just a simple drive over there for Americans, but it could be a cheap short haul flight, and with F1 ticket prices being what they are, north-eastern Americans are surely more likely to choose the cheaper option of Montreal rather than fly across the whole country to get to Austin.


If my geography is correct Montreal is only about an hour's flight away from Boston and not that far away from Detroit and Toronto so you're pretty much on the money. And Texas is alot closer to the center of America than the SouthWest... I've flown to Austin from New York and LA on Flight Sim and it's about a 3 hour flight either way.

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Monza will not go out for any reason whatsoever, as Ferrari would then pull out and head to Le Mans


Fixed. IndyCar won't make sense to Ferrari unless they can make the entire car in-house which the current regulations don't allow.


It's actually a pretty feasible drive from the American Northeast to Montreal.

And Austin, Texas, is definitely in the American Southwest. It's far too far south to be considered centrally located.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by TomWazzleshaw »

thehemogoblin wrote:And Austin, Texas, is definitely in the American Southwest. It's far too far south to be considered centrally located.


I was under the impression that Texas was too far east to be considered "Southwest"... I probably should have said the Southern part of Central rather than just Central...
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