Grand Prix Rejects

Kuwashima wrote:

dr-baker wrote:But this forum is known for not having flamewars. Can we keep it that way? Please?

x2
@Kostas22 and @Captain Hammer - please play nice, children make your point, fine, but no need to get personal.

If you don't comply, Jamie's going to deport you to Vanuatu, where you will be bombarded with papayas.

Proably another naff journalism example I saw in Silly Season thread...

East Londoner wrote:http://www.dailystar.co.uk/motorsports/view/221652/Ferrari-are-racing-to-pair-Lewis-Hamilton-with-Alonso-again/



The Daily Farce strikes again! Should this also go in the Naff F1 Journalism thread, as an appallingly bad example of tabloids reporting on F1

Hi, Joe!

When all is said and done, the whole idea seems rather unlikely. And Petrov must face the fact that if Lotus F1 Team does not want him, his only real chance of employment is with HRT, as second driver to Pedro de la Rosa.

Except that Williams were banking on Kimi Raikkonen to secure funding from Qatar. With Raikkonen going to Lotus and Williams sounding suspiciously quiet of late, it's conceiveable that Petrov could go there.

Captain Hammer wrote:Hi, Joe!

When all is said and done, the whole idea seems rather unlikely. And Petrov must face the fact that if Lotus F1 Team does not want him, his only real chance of employment is with HRT, as second driver to Pedro de la Rosa.

Except that Williams were banking on Kimi Raikkonen to secure funding from Qatar. With Raikkonen going to Lotus and Williams sounding suspiciously quiet of late, it's conceiveable that Petrov could go there.

Whilst I guess that it is plausible that Petrov may be pushed out of the team (though it seems odd that either side would want to delay so much, given Petrov's funding is fairly important for Boullier's plans and the only other likely options are, at best, a sideways move and at worst a downgrade), it's by no means assured that he can just waltz into Williams (and, as an aside, it seems that the major sticking point for the Kimi-Williams deal was Kimi's request for a stake in the team, which it seems the board wasn't willing to accept, with sponsorship being a secondary matter).

Even so, there are other drivers out there with cash available to them - Bruno Senna, for example, also has sponsorship money behind him, and there is the possibility of Sutil, who does have a small amount of personal sponsorship (Medien, I believe) coming onto the market too (it's possible that Williams are waiting on the results of negotiations between Force India and its drivers before it makes its final move). Besides, although the team has lost out on a fair bit of money from FOM (their fall from 6th to 9th in the WCC is thought to have cost the team about $14 million), Maldonado's sponsorship, though slightly uncertain, is considerable and may be offsetting their losses in other areas, such that sponsorship is not the deciding factor.

mario wrote:Whilst I guess that it is plausible that Petrov may be pushed out of the team (though it seems odd that either side would want to delay so much, given Petrov's funding is fairly important for Boullier's plans and the only other likely options are, at best, a sideways move and at worst a downgrade), it's by no means assured that he can just waltz into Williams (and, as an aside, it seems that the major sticking point for the Kimi-Williams deal was Kimi's request for a stake in the team, which it seems the board wasn't willing to accept, with sponsorship being a secondary matter).

I get that. My issue is that Saward states that Lotus and HRT are Petrov's only options. They are not:

- Williams were initially courting Kimi Raikkonen to secure funding from the Middle East. Raikkonen has since signed for Lotus, and there has been no word on what has happened with that funding. If it died with Raikkonen joining Lotus, Williams could conceivably take Petrov.
- Force India is bankrolled by Vijay Mallya, and Mallya's businesses are in serious trouble. Although Force India's sponsorship is funded differently to every other team, that distinction will likely be lost on the Indian public. Force India will have to appear fiscally-responsible, which means removing the Kingfisher and possibly Whyte & Mackey decals. A deal with Petrov could take even more pressure off the team and Mallya.
- Daniel Ricciardo is talking up the prospects of replacing Jarno Trulli at Caterham. This would come with Red Bull's blessing, but I doubt they would be willing to match Petrov dollar-for-dollar to get Ricciardo in the seat. Russian rubles work just as well as Australian dollars when it comes to funding the team.

And, of course, HRT is a possibility. They have an available seat, and a documented history of taking pay drivers. But to suggest that HRT is Petrov's only choice outside Lotus for 2012 is ridiculous. He's an established driver and brings plenty of sponsorship to any team he joins. Toro Rosso is the only team that is really off-limits to him, simply because they take drivers from their own clique, and Petrov is not a part of that.

Prisoner Monkeys (on Joe's blog) wrote:
“When all is said and done, the whole idea seems rather unlikely. And Petrov must face the fact that if Lotus F1 Team does not want him, his only real chance of employment is with HRT, as second driver to Pedro de la Rosa.”

Joe, I completely disagree. Petrov himself has said that he has three other options at hand. It’s easy to write that off as PR nonsense, but we never question it when other drivers say it, so why start now? Petrov is believed to have some $15 million in sponsorship available (though that number is only rumour). He could conceivable find a place at any team with an unconfirmed line-up except for Toro Rosso. After all, weren’t Williams banking on Raikkonen to secure sponsors? Won’t Force India have to appear fiscally-responsible with Kingfisher up the proverbial creek? And if Daniel Ricciardo is talking up the idea of replacing Jarno Trulli at Caterham, then surely Petrov’s rubles work just as well as Australian dollars?

Sound familiar?

To which Joe replied "we will see". Quite; the clue to this is in the title of the piece "Hypothesis".

Joe has clearly evaluated in his mind the various options & come to a conclusion. It's his opinion...one could call it a "pointed opinion". (But Don Tirri bagged that line first!)

Various members of this forum have indicated their weariness of Capt. Hammer's obsession with picking tiny holes in Joe's utterances. & perhaps as much as a year ago a Moderator (Goblin), requested that he ceased to bring up the subject at every available opportunity, without valid reason to do so & not out of thin air just because he can.
The Capt. doesn't like Joe; we all get that, but it's all we ever seem to hear from him now. .

Captain Hammer wrote:

mario wrote:Whilst I guess that it is plausible that Petrov may be pushed out of the team (though it seems odd that either side would want to delay so much, given Petrov's funding is fairly important for Boullier's plans and the only other likely options are, at best, a sideways move and at worst a downgrade), it's by no means assured that he can just waltz into Williams (and, as an aside, it seems that the major sticking point for the Kimi-Williams deal was Kimi's request for a stake in the team, which it seems the board wasn't willing to accept, with sponsorship being a secondary matter).

I get that. My issue is that Saward states that Lotus and HRT are Petrov's only options. They are not:

- Williams were initially courting Kimi Raikkonen to secure funding from the Middle East. Raikkonen has since signed for Lotus, and there has been no word on what has happened with that funding. If it died with Raikkonen joining Lotus, Williams could conceivably take Petrov.
- Force India is bankrolled by Vijay Mallya, and Mallya's businesses are in serious trouble. Although Force India's sponsorship is funded differently to every other team, that distinction will likely be lost on the Indian public. Force India will have to appear fiscally-responsible, which means removing the Kingfisher and possibly Whyte & Mackey decals. A deal with Petrov could take even more pressure off the team and Mallya.
- Daniel Ricciardo is talking up the prospects of replacing Jarno Trulli at Caterham. This would come with Red Bull's blessing, but I doubt they would be willing to match Petrov dollar-for-dollar to get Ricciardo in the seat. Russian rubles work just as well as Australian dollars when it comes to funding the team.

And, of course, HRT is a possibility. They have an available seat, and a documented history of taking pay drivers. But to suggest that HRT is Petrov's only choice outside Lotus for 2012 is ridiculous. He's an established driver and brings plenty of sponsorship to any team he joins. Toro Rosso is the only team that is really off-limits to him, simply because they take drivers from their own clique, and Petrov is not a part of that.

The situation with Williams and their sponsorship search is a little unclear - it appears that Williams were targeting investment from Qatar before the talks with Kimi began, so the fact that Kimi walked away from the team doesn't necessarily mean that the deal is dead.

As for Force India, it is true that Mallya's airlines are in major financial trouble - to the point where a number of airports are demanding payment in advance to deal with Mallya's aircraft rather than risk operating on credit - but surely the main point of the deal with Sahara Group was to secure outside investment in the team? On top of that, whilst there may be an advantage in getting Petrov's additional sponsorship, it's rumoured that Di Resta has been placed at Force India in return for a discount on the Mercedes KERS and engine deal that Force India have, whilst Sutil almost secured 5th in the WCC for the team.

As for Caterham, it is possible that the Ricciardo deal may have something else going for it - remember, the team also have a technical partnership with Red Bull Technology for some of Red Bull's older gearboxes and will be getting the latest version of Red Bull's KERS for 2012. Red Bull might well be prepared to offer the team additional technical assistance - particularly since McLaren rumoured to be pushing the bounds of the permitted technology transfer to Marussia under the current regulations - in return for Ricciardo, and short cuts to a competitive design might be worth considerably more to the team than just cash. Besides, the budget of Caterham has been nicely boosted this year by the fact they retained their 10th place in the WCC - by holding onto 10th in the WCC for a second year they are thought to have gained about $21 million in additional funding from FOM - and, coming on top of the fairly sizeable deal they cut with General Electric, the team is on a much more secure financial footing than the other two new teams.

Anyway, enough of that - like others here, I would like to point out that whilst there may be some fair criticisms of the work of Joe Saward raised by yourself, I do have to agree with the complaints of others that at times you seem somewhat desperate to portray Joe in the worst possible light. Whilst you might have criticised him for twisting the comments of some figures to suit his opinions, it has to be said that you have sometimes been guilty of the very same actions yourself...

The pictures always get leaked. They rarely bear any resemblance to the actual car.

Ah, Joe. Joe, Joe, Joe. I just can't help myself but point this out:

I will now leave you for 24 hours in the unsafe hands of the “F1 media” that would get lost trying to find the average racing circuit. Beware of stories suggesting Michael Schumacher will win the World Championship; or that Sebastian Vettel is going to ride to the North Pole on a llama called Maurice.

Apparently, Joe is the only person in Formula 1 who is actually competent to do anything, and that if it weren't for him, we'd all be horrendously lost and falling victim to evil reporters trying to sell us a dummy. But it's a good thing we have Joe to save us from all that, eh? He's the one who is looking out for us. There's no bias here, no siree. After all, it's not like he has a long-standing grudge against a team principal for releasing his favourite driver from their contract early, is it? And he would never attack that team principal for saying something that he never actually said, either ...

And it's not like he's employed by a certain F1 team without making mention of it on his blog.

And now, it's time for the big news in Formula 1. Seb has named his 2012 car

Wizzie wrote:And now, it's time for the big news in Formula 1. Seb has named his 2012 car

At least compared to previous years he has gone for a more normal name; the names he gave to his recent cars sounded more like the sort of ladies who would be attending one of Mosely's parties...

mario wrote:

Wizzie wrote:And now, it's time for the big news in Formula 1. Seb has named his 2012 car

At least compared to previous years he has gone for a more normal name; the names he gave to his recent cars sounded more like the sort of ladies who would be attending one of Mosely's parties...

I'm glad he's started to name his cars after the corners at Silverstone instead...

I fear some poor sod on the BBC online F1 team may have been taken in by a fake Twitter account...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17420344

Meanwhile, 1992 world champion Nigel Mansell commented on Twitter about Lewis Hamilton's subdued reaction to his third place: "The reason Lewis is looking so down is because he's a winner. Third place isn't good enough for some people."

Said account is here: https://twitter.com/#!/Mansell5

Ferrim wrote:And it's not like he's employed by a certain F1 team without making mention of it on his blog.

Huh. That is not the reaction I was expecting.