The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

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Bobby Doorknobs
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The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

I feel poor Jolyon gets a lot of undue hatred around here, especially unjust as we really should be rooting for him as one of the current grid's rejects. To help get something going, I feel we should have a thread in his honour.

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Who is he?

Jolyon Carlyle Palmer is an Englishman, the son of Dr. Jonathan Palmer, but we don't care about him because he did too well in a Tyrrell so let's stick with his prodigious progeny.

Like Jonathan, Jolyon has a university education. Also like Jonathan, Jolyon wanted to do racing instead of doing something with his degree. He had the ordinary British junior ladder career: T Cars, then Formula Palmer Audi (the name is no coincidence, his dad practically owns British motorsport, not that that would affect Jolyon's career progression in any way). After that he moved up to Formula 2, which was like GP2 only it wasn't. Formula 2 was also Jonathan Palmer's project, but I'd like to think that Jolyon would've gone there anyway even if his dad had nothing to do with it, especially with the long list of names that have since gone on from it to an F1 race drive, like Jolyon Palmer for example.

Image
Jolyon proudly flying what sort of maybe looks like the union jack on his car in Formula 2

After two seasons in F2 - including one as series runner-up - Jolyon went across to GP2, which was like F2 only it wasn't... yet. Here, our hero spent four seasons in the category, stretching out a longer career at this level than some of F1's most successful drivers, like Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton, who only lasted a season each in GP2. Other talented four season-ers include Pastor Maldonado and Marcus Ericsson (Max Chilton only did three, but three is a magic number, so that means nothing). Sadly, he was forced to leave at the end of 2014 upon winning the title by the biggest margin in GP2 history. It may, for entertainment's sake, have been for the best, as 2014 runner-up Stoffel Vandoorne smashed Jolyon's record the next year, which can only make one wonder just how dominant JP could have been had the rules allowed him to stay and defend his title.

Image
Jolyon in a GP2 test for DAMS ahead of his crushing 2014 campaign. Just look at that car control

Just like other recent GP2 greats like Davide Valsecchi and Fabio Leimer, Jolyon was forced to wait for his F1 call, spending 2015 as Lotus' "test and reserve" driver, but then, on October 23, he was announced as part of Lotus' Renault's driving lineup for the 2016 Formula One™ season. He was joined by the highly rated Kevin Magnussen, but Jolyon was not to be underestimated. Round one in Australia saw him out-qualify and out-race the Dane and he finished just outside the points in 11th. Only two races later, Jolyon won his first Reject of the Race award for a phenomenal 22nd place drive in China, joining an exclusive club of drivers that have finished in the same position, including Senna, Vettel, Ricciardo and Michael Schumacher. Unlike his teammate, Jolyon has been unlucky when it comes to points finishes, problems ranging from the hydraulic system to a water leak to aquaplaning (there's a pattern emerging here), but he would finally break his duck with a superb 10th place in Malaysia, a crucial result in moving Renault from a tally of 7 points to 8 points in the constructors' championship, without which they would have been closer to Sauber and Manor behind them in the table.

Image
Jolyon leads the humbled 2016 world champion Nico Rosberg on his way to a historic 10th place at Sepang

Unable to cope with the pressure, Kevin Magnussen left Renault, which put Jolyon firmly in the position of team leader with Nico Hulkenberg joining as his number 2. His 2017 season so far has been rather understated, with Hulkenberg grabbing some points finishes, but there have been some great performances from Jolyon nonetheless, such as his Q3 appearance in Bahrain and, if one were to apply Adrian Sutil's standards, he had the best drives of his career with 13th places in Bahrain and China. Although his 2017 campaign is pointless so far, we can expect this to change for the better as the Renault develops. Soon he'll be sweeping those seventh places.

Video highlights
Battling fellow GP2 great Felipe Nasr at the Hungaroring
If Jolyon can't keep the car on the track, why did you think running the race was a good idea? Monaco was just too wet for F1 cars that day
He just oozes charisma in this interview with Sky Sports
Jolyon's elated reaction to finishing 10th in Malaysia
Absolutely nailing "Grill the Grid"
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by girry »

Honestly, I like Jolyon. I think he's really pretty humble in contrast to the Gutierrez' of the world and a lot of the hatred comes because he's British, and there are only 2 British driver on the grid atm so is a shoe in for a C4/SKY interview - so the audience is constantly reminded of his existence. And given that the British F1 fans (as British sports fans in general) tend to have unwarranted love or hate relationships with drivers, and the other British driver is doing a tad better than Jolyon, it's Palmer who gets unabashed amounts of criticism -- whereas someone like Felipe Nasr, Ericsson or Merhi can do just as badly as Jolyon (or Chilton, earlier) and they get 20% of the slack the british drivers do because they don't get in front of the cameras nearly as often. :chilton:

OK so he doesn't deserve the Renault seat, but still...
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by CoopsII »

That did make me chuckle which in itself served as a reminder of what following Rejects used to be - fun. I'd like to think we'll look back on Palmers time as fondly as we do Deletraz et al so I intend to try to enjoy it more from now on.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Wallio »

I think a lot of the hatred, at least in comparison to JDD, Johnny Carwash, et al, is because its all so unnecessary. The reject ride buyers we all know and love we absolutely 100% needed by the team to survive. Palmer isn't. Yes, he brings loads of cash, but now that the Renault takeover is complete they aren't struggling money wise, at least not bad enough to need this level of rejectdom. Last year? Sure, but not now. You could make a similar argument with Stroll and Williams. When Pastor was with Williams, hey, they needed the money, badly. But with Martini on board, they really should be looking at better pilots.

I see a lot of complaining about people "forgetting the spirit of the forum" but being rejectful just for rejectfulness sake isn't cute. A bad driver scrapping with a young team trying to stay on the grid? That's awesome. A rich scrub taking a seat at one of the big four because......well nobody knows why, isn't rejectful in our sense of the word. And with Sauber now being an at least semi-works team, there are no true rejects on the grid. Whether that's good or bad is up for debate, but that's the situation were in.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Barbazza »

I like him - for a start, he's way better than the likes of Max Chilton & erm....who's that other one...I genuinely forgot his name just now - Will Stevens!

And considering how much of an utter waste of space Stroll has been so far, he's certainly not the worst on the grid either. Even previous wonderboy Stoffel 'Pootle along.....nice Sunday drive.....whoops, there's a car there!' Vandoorne isn't exactly setting the world alight is he? (yes, it's a terrible car, but look at what Fernando is doing with it!)
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by sw3ishida »

I almost missed this because it wasn't titled "Get Ready for...The Palmer Party!" or something to that effect.

Anyway, my Palmer story is from Hungary 2016, a race for which my partner and I were in the stands at the final corner. We'd eagerly anticipated Palmer's upcoming 10th place finish...until he missed a corner late into the race and drove into the grass, losing the point. At which point she loudly exclaimed "Goddamnit Palmer!"

He's been referred to as "Good old Goddamnit Palmer" since between us. Jolyon Palmer brought us closer as a couple, for which I am grateful.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

I wouldn't just say that Jolyon Palmer is a good driver.

I would say that Jolyon Palmer is the only good driver on the grid.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by watka »

The problem with Palmer is that he is experienced enough and has good enough results to evidence that he has the talent to be in Formula 1 regardless of the money, but hasn't shown us any of that talent and is taking up a half decent race seat. It's just frustrating to watch.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/09/17/p ... er-finish/

"We had a good strategy, good pit stops and the car was good in the wet conditions. The next race should be even better.”

Palmer to reach the podium before Hulkenberg does!
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

I hope whoever wins the championship this year retires and Palmer takes their place.
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Aguvazk »

This is an outside bet, but why not? If our pal little Jo go to Toro Rosso? He's improven (slowly), he'll bring some cash. Maybe its not the best option, but Kvyatt look demolish, Matsushita doesn't have the superlicense and is far from there, and two rookies with a new engine doesn't seem the best package.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by IceG »

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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by sswishbone »

Is he elligible for a profile?

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41536503
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

C'mon Jolyon, get a 5th place. Millions of people are counting on you!
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Nuppiz »

Rob Dylan wrote:C'mon Jolyon, get a 5th place take Hamilton out while he's lapping you. Millions of people are counting on you!

Fix'd.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by dr-baker »

Nuppiz wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:C'mon Jolyon, get a 5th place take Hamilton Vettel out while he's lapping you. Millions of people are counting on you!

Fix'd.

Fixed further.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by mario »

sswishbone wrote:Is he elligible for a profile?

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41536503

It would probably be best to wait and see what happens for 2018, as there is a small possibility that he might yet find a way to stay on in F1 next year.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Ataxia »

mario wrote:
sswishbone wrote:Is he elligible for a profile?

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41536503

It would probably be best to wait and see what happens for 2018, as there is a small possibility that he might yet find a way to stay on in F1 next year.


You should give stand-up a go, with material like that you'd go far!
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by tommykl »

dr-baker wrote:
Nuppiz wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:C'mon Jolyon, get a 5th place take Hamilton Vettel out while he's lapping you. Millions of people are counting on you!

Fix'd.

Fixed further.

no
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by mario »

Ataxia wrote:
mario wrote:
sswishbone wrote:Is he elligible for a profile?

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41536503

It would probably be best to wait and see what happens for 2018, as there is a small possibility that he might yet find a way to stay on in F1 next year.


You should give stand-up a go, with material like that you'd go far!

I know that the remark is risible, but my reasoning was that some teams are fairly desperate for funds and, with Palmer reportedly receiving a fairly substantial pay off from Renault to quit early, there is a low possibility that a large enough wallet could tip things in his favour (though I doubt it will actually happen).
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by dr-baker »

dr-baker wrote:
Nuppiz wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:C'mon Jolyon, get a 5th place take Hamilton Vettel out while he's lapping you. Millions of people are counting on you!

Fix'd.

Fixed further.

tommykl wrote:no

You were right, there wasn't any need in the end, was there!
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by James1978 »

What I do find interesting about the whole situation is firstly, after his departure, there will be only ONE British driver left in the sport and he must have less years ahead of him than behind him (since I started following in the early 90s there have always been multiple except two races in 2005 when Button was banned leaving only Coulthard), and secondly with Toro Rosso now having let Sainz go, what the hell will they do if Pierre Gas Leak returns to the junior series he's trying to win? They're left with persona-non-grata Kvyat and god knows who else?
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Ataxia »

James1978 wrote:Pierre Gas Leak


Image
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Nuppiz »

James1978 wrote:Pierre Gas Leak

This is even funnier for Finns. "Pieree" roughly translates as "having a fart".
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by dr-baker »

Nuppiz wrote:
James1978 wrote:Pierre Gas Leak

This is even funnier for Finns. "Pieree" roughly translates as "having a fart".

Whereas in French, Pierre simply means Stone or Rock. Not nearly as funny.
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by James1978 »

I've got a thing about making funny names out of other names, sorry. :)
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by WaffleCat »

dr-baker wrote:
Nuppiz wrote:
James1978 wrote:Pierre Gas Leak

This is even funnier for Finns. "Pieree" roughly translates as "having a fart".

Whereas in French, Pierre simply means Stone or Rock. Not nearly as funny.


Oh, in the French film RRRrrrr (yes, that's the actual title), the name's one of the funniest bits of the film and it just runs all the way through.

If you need any more French comedy film trivia, hit me up.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by 1993DonningtonNo1Mk2 »

Sons/relatives of former F1 drivers and Renault seems to be a bad combination somehow.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

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#FreeGonzo
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by tommykl »

Simtek wrote:https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/10/12/grosjean-f1-return-not-impossible-for-palmer/

Romain knows the score.

Thing is, after Grosjean was let go by Renault in 2009, he had a GP2 to go back to and win for added reputation. Unless I'm wrong, Palmer isn't allowed to drive in F2, assuming GP2 championships are still excluded.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Nessafox »

tommykl wrote:
Simtek wrote:https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/10/12/grosjean-f1-return-not-impossible-for-palmer/

Romain knows the score.

Thing is, after Grosjean was let go by Renault in 2009, he had a GP2 to go back to and win for added reputation. Unless I'm wrong, Palmer isn't allowed to drive in F2, assuming GP2 championships are still excluded.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by WaffleCat »

This wrote:
tommykl wrote:
Simtek wrote:https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/10/12/grosjean-f1-return-not-impossible-for-palmer/

Romain knows the score.

Thing is, after Grosjean was let go by Renault in 2009, he had a GP2 to go back to and win for added reputation. Unless I'm wrong, Palmer isn't allowed to drive in F2, assuming GP2 championships are still excluded.
He's just gonna win, Indycar, Indy 500, Super Formula, Formula E, the WEC and Le Mans and they'll be begging to get him back.


Watch him do it all in the same year too...
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

Can someone explain that rule a little better?

So Palmer can't go to the F2 because he is a champion of the (GP2) series?
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by mario »

Rob Dylan wrote:Can someone explain that rule a little better?

So Palmer can't go to the F2 because he is a champion of the (GP2) series?

GP2 had a rule that a champion could not stay on in the series after winning his title, which I presume has carried on after the series was renamed (wasn't it Pantano who triggered that ruling after he turned his hand to GP2 after leaving Jordan?).
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by AdrianBelmonte_ »

WaffleCat wrote:
This wrote:He's just gonna win, Indycar, Indy 500, Super Formula, Formula E, the WEC and Le Mans and they'll be begging to get him back.


Watch him do it all in the same year too...


He'll do that and add a few more trophies to that tally (even the Eurovision and the Superbowl)
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

mario wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:Can someone explain that rule a little better?

So Palmer can't go to the F2 because he is a champion of the (GP2) series?

GP2 had a rule that a champion could not stay on in the series after winning his title, which I presume has carried on after the series was renamed (wasn't it Pantano who triggered that ruling after he turned his hand to GP2 after leaving Jordan?).

That doesn't make sense in my head, because Pantano won the GP2 series after he left Formula 1, did he not?
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by Nessafox »

Rob Dylan wrote:
mario wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:Can someone explain that rule a little better?

So Palmer can't go to the F2 because he is a champion of the (GP2) series?

GP2 had a rule that a champion could not stay on in the series after winning his title, which I presume has carried on after the series was renamed (wasn't it Pantano who triggered that ruling after he turned his hand to GP2 after leaving Jordan?).

That doesn't make sense in my head, because Pantano won the GP2 series after he left Formula 1, did he not?

So did Glock. But it was probably to avoid succesful drivers staying too long in there.
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Re: The Jolyon Palmer Appreciation Thread

Post by mario »

Rob Dylan wrote:
mario wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:Can someone explain that rule a little better?

So Palmer can't go to the F2 because he is a champion of the (GP2) series?

GP2 had a rule that a champion could not stay on in the series after winning his title, which I presume has carried on after the series was renamed (wasn't it Pantano who triggered that ruling after he turned his hand to GP2 after leaving Jordan?).

That doesn't make sense in my head, because Pantano won the GP2 series after he left Formula 1, did he not?

This wrote:So did Glock. But it was probably to avoid succesful drivers staying too long in there.

To a lesser extent, there is also Grosjean and his move from GP2 back up into F1, then back down into GP2 before moving back up into F1 as well.

The actions of those drivers is part of the reason for the rule changes, as the organisers did not want drivers downgrading from Formula 1 to GP2 to challenge for the title there and potentially take places away from drivers who were trying to come up through the ranks from junior series. That would, in turn, potentially reduce the attractiveness of the series to new drivers and, with Formula Renault 3.5 being a potential rival, it could have undermined the viability of GP2 if drivers migrated to FR3.5 instead.

In addition to that, by requiring the champion to move on at the end of the season, it also prevents any one particular driver from staying too long and dominating the series, as well as ensuring that you create at least one free seat each season for a new driver.
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