Kubica to test F1 car

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 05 Jun 2017, 18:42

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/kubi ... ia-914597/

Yeah, it's a 5 year old show car, but I'm still crying proper tears.

Kubica getting back into F1 would be the best thing that's happened in the sport lately. But even with this the chances of him returning are very small.

This Could Be You · Post by **This Could Be You** » 05 Jun 2017, 19:21

I bet he'd still be faster than Palmer if they ran him though, and despite his WRC foray, a bit less crashprone. Plus, he knows the team...

watka · Post by **watka** » 05 Jun 2017, 20:22

Excellent to see him back in an F1 car. I get the impression that he's a hero to Poland. He can be an excellent ambassador for the sport.

Post by **Ataxia** » 05 Jun 2017, 23:44

This Could Be You wrote:I bet he'd still be faster than Palmer if they ran him though, and despite his WRC foray, a bit less crashprone. Plus, he knows the team...

I'm not entirely sure about that; I'm not going to post the picture which displays this out of respect (I'm told he's incredibly self-conscious about it) but the arm he injured in his crash is still nowhere near as strong as the other and looks almost atrophic.

I don't think he'd be able to deal with a prolonged run in F1 machinery, especially the more physical 2017-spec machines, but it's amazing to see him back in a seat for a few laps.

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 06 Jun 2017, 00:52

Having seen the photo you're on about, I think it's amazing and a credit to both him and his medical staff that he was able to keep the arm.

The fact that he's able to get behind the wheel of an F1 car and control it is still more impressive. It's where he's meant to be.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 06 Jun 2017, 06:33

As I started this thread I was really pleased, thinking that even at 32 may Kubica could maybe one day compete again. Then as I read on about the situation with his arm reality came back with a thump (I haven't seen any pictures and I'd prefer not to).

Such a shame.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 06 Jun 2017, 11:25

Just to ignore everything that's been written before me...
*cough*

KUBICA 2018 FORMULA 1 WORLD CHAMPIONNNNN :dance:

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 06 Jun 2017, 14:25

Zanardi got a few shots in a BMW Sauber and did pretty damn well all things considered. Why not let Robert go?

Post by **Ataxia** » 06 Jun 2017, 16:09

Time to back-track on everything I've said so far, turns out that I've sold Robert short somewhat...

Here's why.

Long fuel runs, quali simulations and practice starts. 115 laps. Apparently quicker than Sirotkin. Is that the hype train coming into the station?

Pointrox · Post by **Pointrox** » 06 Jun 2017, 16:21

watka wrote:Excellent to see him back in an F1 car. I get the impression that he's a hero to Poland.

He is indeed

The rumor has it that his times were consistently better than those clocked when Sirotkin was at the wheel. By what margin - that's another thing, but I can imagine he was much, much quicker.

:dance:

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 06 Jun 2017, 16:24

I don't want to read too much into this, but the official Renault facebook page said he completed 119 laps. That seems....high, doesn't it?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 06 Jun 2017, 16:31

Wallio wrote:I don't want to read too much into this, but the official Renault facebook page said he completed 119 laps. That seems....high, doesn't it?

Autosport says 115 laps, roughly one-and-a-half GP distances. So that kind of ball-park figure.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 06 Jun 2017, 16:57

Holey buckets, that's pretty impressive.

Having read a bit more about the test my feelings were very much 'Palmer out! Kubica in!!' But I think I need to calm down. The lad might have been bollocksed after 100+ laps and needed ice packs, been unable to move, massages, who knows what? Also, as safe as modern F1 cars are, surely a big accident could do serious harm to his arm, more so than to a regular driver?

But ignoring all that, he couldn't do any worse than Palmer so....

PALMER OUT!!!! KUBICA IN!!!!

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 06 Jun 2017, 17:33

Considering he's doing 99.99999% of the steering with one arm, that is really something. Clearly made of the same material as Zanardi.

girry · Post by **girry** » 06 Jun 2017, 18:09

Nah as awesome as it would be I feel it would be too early for a race debut now. Too many things to learn with the new car, and I suppose his racecraft would be rustty as well.

If you're Renault, and the test session is indeed as good as suggested then surely you're gonna stick Kubica in for the Friday practise sessions to have a real comparison and give Jolyon until Silverstone to try and discover his pace - if by then it still looks like Bobby K still has it, only then you will put him in the seat.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 06 Jun 2017, 18:41

Aside from his injury and length of time out of F1, which would be big obstacles at the best of times, the market for non-paying drivers is harder to crack than it's ever been. He'd have to seriously prove himself across several tests before Renault or anyone else would even contemplate him for next season. And I would still consider it to be more likely than not that he won't get a drive in F1 again.

(On the Renault front specifically, I also wonder can they run two cars to equally competitive levels, cos Palmer's performances look for all the world like a guy who's getting the bare minimum in terms of technical support)

Obviously it's great to see him in an F1 car again, and I'd love Renault to fly him out to Canada, stick him in Palmer's car and then for him to be on Hulk's pace straight away, but that's not how real life actually works.

Post by **mario** » 06 Jun 2017, 19:03

Ataxia wrote:Time to back-track on everything I've said so far, turns out that I've sold Robert short somewhat...

Here's why.

Long fuel runs, quali simulations and practice starts. 115 laps. Apparently quicker than Sirotkin. Is that the hype train coming into the station?

Judging by some sites, the hype train has already had a full head of steam for several months at least. However, despite the fact that he seems to have had a successful test, I am still extremely wary about making any sort of predictions of a comeback drive for Kubica.

Whilst there are rumours that he was quicker than Sirotkin, with no times released we have no idea whether or not that is actually true. Furthermore, let us not forget that, in the Spanish GP, in FP1 Sirotkin's best time was over two seconds off Hulkenberg - now, he didn't have an easy time in that practise session, but it does highlight that, without a clear context for those times, we don't know if Kubica's times were actually competitive given there are questions over what sort of benchmark Sirotkin could set in relation to Palmer and Hulkenberg.

There is also still the question of the motility of his wrist - last year, when talking to dailysportscar, he mentioned that, because he is unable to flex his wrist normally, he has to use his shoulder muscles to compensate for that - that, in turn, does make things difficult for certain circuits (I imagine that a venue like Monaco would be difficult for him). He seems to have managed today, but we do not have a clear idea of how this would impact him at other circuits and what restrictions that might impose on him in certain situations.

Enforcer wrote:(On the Renault front specifically, I also wonder can they run two cars to equally competitive levels, cos Palmer's performances look for all the world like a guy who's getting the bare minimum in terms of technical support)

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, because normally Renault has had the sharpest difference between the lead driver and the second driver out of all the teams on the grid. I don't think it is just a question of resources, but also one of the organisational structure of the team.

Although the financial situation may have played a part as well, we saw that, when Kimi and Grosjean drove for the team, Grosjean was getting pretty minimal support until Kimi decided that he was going to leave, leading to the team putting more resources into Grosjean and a sharp improvement in performance by him after that.

Last year, it looks like Palmer and Magnussen were given fairly even treatment because the team didn't really have a favourite driver out of the two. However, this year the team have explicitly stated that they are building the team around Hulkenberg, so I would not be surprised if Palmer's support has been cut back in order to divert more resources to Hulkenberg.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 07 Jun 2017, 03:55

The thing i got to say is, Robert has a damn lot of character!

Getting him back in F1 would of course create a huge positive media interest, which could potentially commercially benefit Renault. The question, is it worth the risk for Robert and is it worth the risk for Renault? At this point i'm inclined to say no, but maybe 2019? Get some money from running Sirotkin in the meanwhile.

watka · Post by **watka** » 07 Jun 2017, 20:51

Per the BBC Sport article, Kubica is quoted as saying "I'm proud with what I achieved but also it shows what I've lost". Not sure if he means that he was saddened by missing out on Formula 1 for all those years or whether he was saddened by how much slower he was than before the accident. Either way, he sounds pretty pragmatic about driving an F1 car in any kind of competitive sense.

William Hunt · Post by **William Hunt** » 07 Jun 2017, 21:45

It's highly unlikely that a team would put a driver who has been out of F1 for six years because of an army injury back in their car.

I also would take those 'rumours' that Kubica was quicker as Sirotkin with a serious pinch of salt since Renault did not release any (official) times at all.

Also when you compare a time, you have to take in account the tyres, temperatures, fuel level etc... Maybe Sirotkin was never driving on the limit or only driving on hard tyres whilst Kubica drove a lap on soft or ultra softs with low fuel, that's if and if those rumours are true, I personally don't believe at all that Kubica can beat Sirotkin in similar conditions.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 08 Jun 2017, 14:33

William Hunt wrote:
Also when you compare a time, you have to take in account the tyres, temperatures, fuel level etc... Maybe Sirotking was never driving on the limit or only driving on hard tyres whilst Kubica drove a lap on soft or ultra softs with low fuel, that's if and if those rumours are true, I personally don't believe at all that Kubica can beat Sirotkin in similar conditions.

Well not for nothing, but Renault themselves have said that Robert was constantly after them for set-up changes (mostly to cure understeer) and that he improved throughout the day. It sounds similar to Zanardi's first Sauber test, it was at max ride height (according to Alex) and on wet tyres in the dry. He nagged enough, and was quick enough to get a "proper" test. Perhaps that could explain the length for Robert?

William Hunt · Post by **William Hunt** » 08 Jun 2017, 15:54

@ Wallio: I don't remeber Zanardi testing for Sauber, when was that, do you have a link to an article about this particular test?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 08 Jun 2017, 17:34

William Hunt wrote:It's highly unlikely that a team would put a driver who has been out of F1 for six years because of an army injury back in their car.

I also would take those 'rumours' that Kubica was quicker as Sirotkin with a serious pinch of salt since Renault did not release any (official) times at all.

Also when you compare a time, you have to take in account the tyres, temperatures, fuel level etc... Maybe Sirotkin was never driving on the limit or only driving on hard tyres whilst Kubica drove a lap on soft or ultra softs with low fuel, that's if and if those rumours are true, I personally don't believe at all that Kubica can beat Sirotkin in similar conditions.

Sirotkin is their reserve driver... for what reason would they say Kubica was faster than him if it was not the truth?

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 08 Jun 2017, 18:17

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/zana ... mw-sauber/

2006. This was before the first test, which as I said was basically a PR exercise. However Alex was able to get them to give him a "proper" test later on.

William Hunt · Post by **William Hunt** » 08 Jun 2017, 23:35

Salamander wrote: Sirotkin is their reserve driver... for what reason would they say Kubica was faster than him if it was not the truth?

Renault never said that Kubica was faster as Sirotkin, they never even released a single lap time from either Kubica or Sirotkin.

It was a French journalist (he is the only 'source', I don't even know if he is an autosport journalist) who said on Twitter that Kubica was faster, possibly he made it up, and then an English journalist took that quote over and it started to lead it's own life on internet fora but Renault never said this.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 09 Jun 2017, 04:49

William Hunt wrote:
Salamander wrote: Sirotkin is their reserve driver... for what reason would they say Kubica was faster than him if it was not the truth?

Renault never said that Kubica was faster as Sirotkin, they never even released a single lap time from either Kubica or Sirotkin.

It was a French journalist (he is the only 'source', I don't even know if he is an autosport journalist) who said on Twitter that Kubica was faster, possibly he made it up, and then an English journalist took that quote over and it started to lead it's own life on internet fora but Renault never said this.

Probably to feed the 'Palmer Out!' rumours, as it's mostly Sirotkin that has been named as a potential replacement, and saying Kubica is actually faster is making headlines. To be honest i still rate Sirotkin as having some potential, so he's probably just doing the test work he's supposed to do instead of going for good lap times.

William Hunt · Post by **William Hunt** » 09 Jun 2017, 05:13

the journalist who said it on twitter apparently was someone from L'équipe and it was famous F1 journalist Mark Hughes who then tweeted it. But Hughes' source was that Frenchman from l'équipe, I have no clue how he knew the times when the team did not release any times.
Maybe he knows someone from the team or maybe he made it up, he wouldn't be the first sports journalist to make something up.
I also don't think people should read too much in Kubica's test.
On other forums fans are shouting that he will replace Palmer immediately, quite ridiculous and unrealistic, I also would love to see him back but he was 5 full years out of the sport, it's not realistic.
It was in his 2012 car that he drove, until Robert gets a serious test with a 2017 car with other drivers on track to compare with then you can say that maybe he has a small chance of coming back.
I think this was just a gesture, a present, to Robert out of respect for his past achievements for Renault, much like Zanardi's test at BMW Sauber.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 09 Jun 2017, 08:28

William Hunt wrote:
Salamander wrote: Sirotkin is their reserve driver... for what reason would they say Kubica was faster than him if it was not the truth?

Renault never said that Kubica was faster as Sirotkin, they never even released a single lap time from either Kubica or Sirotkin.

It was a French journalist (he is the only 'source', I don't even know if he is an autosport journalist) who said on Twitter that Kubica was faster, possibly he made it up, and then an English journalist took that quote over and it started to lead it's own life on internet fora but Renault never said this.

Ah, that's fair enough then.

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 11 Jun 2017, 02:08

Just to fuel the hype train a bit, Kubica says he's physically ready. He said so in a Sky Sports interview.

William Hunt · Post by **William Hunt** » 11 Jun 2017, 23:28

well let's hope that Renault gives him a proper test in a 2017 spec car then, there is an opportunity at the tests in Hungaroring this summer.

I hope I'm wrong but this reminds me a lot of the tests that Didier Pironi did for AGS at Paul Ricard and for Ligier at Dijon in 1986. There was similar hype back then as now with Kubica and Pironi was also someone who had sufferend appaling injuries and was out of F1 for 4 years (Robert even 5) when he tested.

Meatwad · Post by **Meatwad** » 12 Jun 2017, 02:24

William Hunt wrote:I hope I'm wrong but this reminds me a lot of the tests that Didier Pironi did for AGS at Paul Ricard and for Ligier at Dijon in 1986. There was similar hype back then as now with Kubica and Pironi was also someone who had sufferend appaling injuries and was out of F1 for 4 years (Robert even 5) when he tested.

I'm not sure if it's true but supposedly Pironi could have returned to F1 based on his fitness alone. However, he would have had to return the insurance money he had received after he was forced to leave F1. At least that's what many claim...

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 12 Jun 2017, 09:48

Here is my take on the whole Kubica comeback thing.

Of course it would be unrealistic and too goo to be true.
But, I think that after McLaren an Alonso did their Indy thing, with lots of PR success, I believe F1 teams have become more open to bold, out-of-left-field ideas.
Also I'm amazed, considering the extent of his injuries, how good Kubica actually managed to be. From everything I've read I really get the feeling he was at least halfway competitive, which to me is a major performance. I honestly never thought he would ever drive an F1 car again, I put it out of my mind. This level of performance is heartwarming (and a bit mind-blowing, again considering how badly his arm is still damaged). Basically Kubica is an intense badass.

My feeling is that Renault might be open to sticking him in the car for the mid-season test for at least one day, just to see how well he would cope in a 2017 car. If he does well then and his fitness continues to improve, then who knows?

I actually made a poll on Twitter on whether they should do this, and it actually got a few reactions, mostly from Poland

William Hunt · Post by **William Hunt** » 12 Jun 2017, 16:03

Meatwad wrote:I'm not sure if it's true but supposedly Pironi could have returned to F1 based on his fitness alone. However, he would have had to return the insurance money he had received after he was forced to leave F1. At least that's what many claim...

I always thought that insurance companies didn't want to insure him again or asked far too much too insure him, that always seemed strange to me

Your explanation makes much more sense

I don't get that if he really wanted to come back badly why he just didn't return the money or asked the team that would hire him if they wanted to cough it up. On the other hand, he was entitled to that insurance money, his F1 career was destroyed by an accident after all.

I would have loved to have seen him come back in a Larrousse Lola (he was mostly linked to them with a come back but never tested for them), Ligier or AGS

Post by **Miguel98** » 15 Jun 2017, 10:08

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/the-pace-is-there-for-kubicas-f1-return-says-renaults-permane-918536/

Must avoid the hype train. Must avoid not to get disappointed... BUUUT BOIIIIIII

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 15 Jun 2017, 21:27

Miguel98 wrote:Must avoid the hype train.

Toot toot.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 16 Jun 2017, 09:25

Aislabie wrote:
Miguel98 wrote:Must avoid the hype train.

Toot toot.

The Hype train, brought to you by Bertrand Gachot. Proud sponsors of the Trulli Train.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 16 Jun 2017, 11:15

Trulli Train was changed for electric Trulli Tram but power steering was still eeeeeeeeh, not good.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 16 Jun 2017, 13:01

dinizintheoven wrote:Trulli Train was changed for electric Trulli Tram but power steering was still eeeeeeeeh, not good.

Are you saying the Trulli Tram went off the rails?

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 17 Jun 2017, 17:07

The Fat Controller's daughter wrote:Is it electric?

Toby wrote:*TRIGGERED!*

Post by **tommykl** » 17 Jun 2017, 20:21

Even though Renault, Kubica and the motorsport media are slowly beginning to hype this up, I refuse to believe it will actually happen. Because if I do start to believe it, then it won't ever come to fruition.

Therefore, my prediction is that Robert will get closer and closer to Renault. He'll do one more test. Then another. Then another. Impressive lap times will get leaked to the press. The Renault PR machine will wax lyrical about the Pole's consistency and general pace. Robert himself will claim he is confident in his abilities. After a month or two, Renault will announce that Robert will get a drive in Friday practice. Maybe even two or three of the wretched things. He'll do very well in these outings.

In the meantime, Jolyon Palmer's confidence will disintegrate. He will continue to fare horrendously against Hülkenberg, making more and more mistakes as his position within the team comes under pressure. Renault will exacerbate this, constantly expressing their disappointment and telling him to up his game. He will get benched on the Fridays to make room for the increasingly-hyped Kubica.

The season will come to an end. Hülkenberg will score somewhere in the realms of 45 points, while Palmer will score fewer than 5, possibly even a big fat duck egg. Rumours will fly around the paddock. Uncertainty and doubt will remain above the Englishman's head throughout October, November and December. Kubica, by now, has become an established paddock figure once again.

In early January, Renault will call a "surprise press conference honhonhonhon". Hülkenberg will be present as lead driver. Cyril Abiteboul will be there too, of course, as will Bob Bell, Nick Chester and Rémy Taffin. Abiteboul will do the bulk of the talking, with the technical trio explaining how the R.S.18 will be "revolutionary". Nico will talk about his hopes and praise the car's development. Cyril will then bring the big guns to the stage: Jérôme Stoll and even the big man himself, Carlos Ghosn. Sergei Sirotkin will be announced as reserve driver and take to the stage as well.

Finally, as the clock strikes x o'clock, the lights will die down. The smoke machines will begin to do their magic. An elaborate light show will dazzle the crowd of the finest motorsport journalists who could be arsed to make their way to rural Oxfordshire on a cold Tuesday morning. The spotlights will focus into a Renault logo-shaped rhombus around a slowly opening door. The Mazurek Dabrowskiego will begin to play. The cameras will start to flash as a back-lit silhouette steps forward out of the shadows.

Finally, in his Frenchiest of accents, Abiteboul will loudly proclaim:

Cyril Abiteboul wrote:Ow-er second driver for ze 2018 sizzen is...

...the silhouette steps into the light, becoming a recognisable human being and ultimately revealing...

Cyril Abiteboul wrote:NICHOLAS LATIFI!

Loud dance music plays, Latifi joins Abiteboul, Hülkenberg, Bell, Chester, Taffin, Stoll and Ghosn at the nicely- laid-out PR desk. He answers all the press questions. Two days later, the racing world has forgotten about the Robert Kubica hype. "This was always going to happen", they all say.

"This was always going to happen..."