The 2019 Silly Season thread

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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Ataxia »

Out of the circuits which produce "boring" races, I'd contend that the worst offenders are Australia, Hungary and Sochi. One of the three is a Tilke circuit.

He gets an obscene amount of crap for his circuits being not conducive to good racing - especially when Bahrain and Shanghai were new - but those two have proven to be modern classics - as was Sepang before it was dropped.

Sure, Korea and India weren't great - but equally was that a product of the time or of circumstance? Valencia was also ropey, but the 2012 race there was phenomenal. If Buriram ended up on the calendar, how can you argue whether it's good or not before it's even hosted a race?
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

Ataxia wrote:Out of the circuits which produce "boring" races, I'd contend that the worst offenders are Australia, Hungary and Sochi. One of the three is a Tilke circuit.

He gets an obscene amount of crap for his circuits being not conducive to good racing - especially when Bahrain and Shanghai were new - but those two have proven to be modern classics - as was Sepang before it was dropped.

Sure, Korea and India weren't great - but equally was that a product of the time or of circumstance? Valencia was also ropey, but the 2012 race there was phenomenal. If Buriram ended up on the calendar, how can you argue whether it's good or not before it's even hosted a race?

I think there are a few valid complaints to be made about Tilke's "style", but I do agree that the tracks' ability or lack thereof to produce good racing is not a well-founded criticism. And even on the question of his style there's always the matter of how much of it is Tilke and how much is down to the incredibly restrictive standards expected of a new F1 circuit from the FIA's side.

I know I've brought it up before but any time I've read contemporary reactions to Sepang from 1999-2000, there always seemed to be praise for the layout. With the proliferation of tracks adhering to the Tilke "formula" over the years Sepang is no longer unique, and now there is almost an expectation for each new track to be boring; the reason for this I'm inclined to think is not because the on-track action will be "bad" (although that's what plenty of people will say), but because it's just more of the same.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by mario »

Simtek wrote:
Ataxia wrote:Out of the circuits which produce "boring" races, I'd contend that the worst offenders are Australia, Hungary and Sochi. One of the three is a Tilke circuit.

He gets an obscene amount of crap for his circuits being not conducive to good racing - especially when Bahrain and Shanghai were new - but those two have proven to be modern classics - as was Sepang before it was dropped.

Sure, Korea and India weren't great - but equally was that a product of the time or of circumstance? Valencia was also ropey, but the 2012 race there was phenomenal. If Buriram ended up on the calendar, how can you argue whether it's good or not before it's even hosted a race?

I think there are a few valid complaints to be made about Tilke's "style", but I do agree that the tracks' ability or lack thereof to produce good racing is not a well-founded criticism. And even on the question of his style there's always the matter of how much of it is Tilke and how much is down to the incredibly restrictive standards expected of a new F1 circuit from the FIA's side.

I know I've brought it up before but any time I've read contemporary reactions to Sepang from 1999-2000, there always seemed to be praise for the layout. With the proliferation of tracks adhering to the Tilke "formula" over the years Sepang is no longer unique, and now there is almost an expectation for each new track to be boring; the reason for this I'm inclined to think is not because the on-track action will be "bad" (although that's what plenty of people will say), but because it's just more of the same.

It has got to the point where some people tend to criticise Tilke for circuits that aren't even his creation - some have criticised the layout of the circuit in Singapore, for example, even though he never designed the final layout (I believe the engineering company KBR did it), not to mention that the alternative proposal - by Apex - was pretty similar.

Sometimes, though, I do feel that there is a bit of a less pleasant subtext to the criticism of "Tilkedromes", which is the fact that sometimes it feels like it is an implicit rejection of non-European venues - that criticism of that type of circuit and the call for "traditional venues" feels like a way of rejecting the venue and the host nation itself, rather than just being a criticism of the track itself (as you say, whilst the designs are not without criticism, at the same time it does sometimes feel like there is something else behind some of the criticism that is thrown about).
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

I wouldn't go far enough as saying that my criticism of "Tilkedromes" is part of an underlying dislike of the new markets and venues, though I can definitely see why people would connect the two. I'm not saying it's a legitimate link, but I can 100% see why people make it. I don't have an issue with F1 exploring new markets, but I guess for me it always seems forced onto a country rather than the area having a pre-existing market in demand for an F1 track (like the way I would consider The Netherlands right now with Verstappen-mania). For example, with Korea, the whole project was rushed, constructed last-minute, and when it was finally done, it felt like nobody even bothered turning up to the races themselves. And I think "Tilkedromes" as a concept play into that problem people have. The idea that F1 is just forcing itself onto new markets to make a quick buck can get some people associating the track layouts with that. Hermann Tilke is seen as being part of the machine, where "cookie cutter" tracks get laid down and forgotten about just as quickly. Not that all tracks Tilke made were bad - obviously that's false. But Valencia was terrible :D
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

Maybe some of you will remember this sentence from the old site...
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I don't actually have anything to add, I just want to make everyone look stupid.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

https://www.planetf1.com/news/bottas-loses-main-sponsor-after-weak-results/

Bottas has lost his main sponsor, which might put his Mercedes seat in jeopardy. Ouch. He had a bad season in 2018, yes, but certainly not poor enough to deserve such a pull in support from all sides. I hope he finds something soon and doesn't lose his seat to Ocon before 2019 has even begun.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Spectoremg »

Rob Dylan wrote:https://www.planetf1.com/news/bottas-loses-main-sponsor-after-weak-results/

Bottas has lost his main sponsor, which might put his Mercedes seat in jeopardy. Ouch. He had a bad season in 2018, yes, but certainly not poor enough to deserve such a pull in support from all sides. I hope he finds something soon and doesn't lose his seat to Ocon before 2019 has even begun.

Ocon? ALONSO!!
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

Touché :lol:
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Fetzie »

Verstappen's punishment for shoving Ocon is to attend the Marrakesh Formula E race and observe the work of the stewards.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/46846722

That's considered a "punishment"?! I'd pay to do that...
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by mario »

Fetzie wrote:Verstappen's punishment for shoving Ocon is to attend the Marrakesh Formula E race and observe the work of the stewards.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/46846722

That's considered a "punishment"?! I'd pay to do that...

I think that there is an element of the FIA being canny in using this as a means of cross promoting Formula E, as the news that Verstappen will be attending that event has, naturally, resulted in a lot of media headlines that have brought attention to that race.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

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Rob Dylan wrote:https://www.planetf1.com/news/bottas-loses-main-sponsor-after-weak-results/

Bottas has lost his main sponsor, which might put his Mercedes seat in jeopardy. Ouch. He had a bad season in 2018, yes, but certainly not poor enough to deserve such a pull in support from all sides. I hope he finds something soon and doesn't lose his seat to Ocon before 2019 has even begun.


Wow, how strange. I did not see that coming.
Don't forget that Antti Aarnio-Wihuri is the man who introduced F1 to a Finnish driver, Leo Kinnunen, with his privately-funded AAW Racing Team. You'd imagine him to be supporting his new protégé through thick and thin. Apparently not. Maybe old Antti is picky about only wanting to support winning racing drivers, who knows.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Waris »

Apologies for the double post. I just learned that Gasly has joined the Race of Champions (Source).

What if he hurts himself and misses the start of the F1 season, like Wehrlein did two years ago? Would Red Bull promote Kvjat again? Surely not. Ticktum, if he can get his superlicense points together? Or bring Hartley back?

It's interesting to speculate about...
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by mario »

Waris wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:https://www.planetf1.com/news/bottas-loses-main-sponsor-after-weak-results/

Bottas has lost his main sponsor, which might put his Mercedes seat in jeopardy. Ouch. He had a bad season in 2018, yes, but certainly not poor enough to deserve such a pull in support from all sides. I hope he finds something soon and doesn't lose his seat to Ocon before 2019 has even begun.


Wow, how strange. I did not see that coming.
Don't forget that Antti Aarnio-Wihuri is the man who introduced F1 to a Finnish driver, Leo Kinnunen, with his privately-funded AAW Racing Team. You'd imagine him to be supporting his new protégé through thick and thin. Apparently not. Maybe old Antti is picky about only wanting to support winning racing drivers, who knows.

The decision might be recent, but Wihuri seems to have been supporting Bottas ever since he met him during a karting event at the age of 12 - so, having backed him for about 17 years, he's probably been one of Bottas's longest term supporters and partners over the course of his entire career.

He's not the only driver who is losing Wihuri's support either, as he has also announced that he's going to stop sponsoring Niko Kari as well. However, he's going to continue backing Simo Laaksonen, who had just competed in GP3 back in 2018, for the foreseeable future.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/141084/gasly-wont-be-econd-driver-at-red-bull

"Pierre Gasly insists he won't be 'second driver' at Red Bull in 2019".

Red Bull maintaining their presence as F1's funniest team. :lol:
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by IceG »

Rob Dylan wrote:https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/141084/gasly-wont-be-econd-driver-at-red-bull

"Pierre Gasly insists he won't be 'second driver' at Red Bull in 2019".



Oh, I assumed that this meant that Kvyat had been promoted to an RB race seat :D
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/141091/schumacher-joins-ferrari-as-f1-junior

Son of Schumi is now a Ferrari junior driver...

I honestly hope the kid does well. Judging from his two years in F3, he's not automatically the best around of the juniors, but he had some fantastic races in 2018, and I hope the hype doesn't ruin chances of a good drive later on down the line. Part of me is excited that he's moving up the ranks and getting all these helping hands along the way, but I'm a little worried for that time when the 'honeymoon' period is over.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by dr-baker »

Rob Dylan wrote:https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/141091/schumacher-joins-ferrari-as-f1-junior

Nephew of Schumi is now a Ferrari junior driver...

Fixed for you... ;)
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

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Meanwhile Dan Ticktum is having trouble getting superlicence points in Asian F3..Struggling to finish in the top 5.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Pacific Edge »

Good for the kid, but I hope that people put the surname aside, and just let him be his own driver.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Waris »

Rob Dylan wrote:Judging from his two years in F3, he's not automatically the best around of the juniors, but he had some fantastic races in 2018, and I hope the hype doesn't ruin chances of a good drive later on down the line. Part of me is excited that he's moving up the ranks and getting all these helping hands along the way, but I'm a little worried for that time when the 'honeymoon' period is over.


Hmm, that sounds reminiscent of certain other driver who was in F3 in 2014 and was "not automatically the best around of the juniors, but he had some fantastic races", doesn't it?
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by tommykl »

Waris wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:Judging from his two years in F3, he's not automatically the best around of the juniors, but he had some fantastic races in 2018, and I hope the hype doesn't ruin chances of a good drive later on down the line. Part of me is excited that he's moving up the ranks and getting all these helping hands along the way, but I'm a little worried for that time when the 'honeymoon' period is over.


Hmm, that sounds reminiscent of certain other driver who was in F3 in 2014 and was "not automatically the best around of the juniors, but he had some fantastic races", doesn't it?

To be honest, a dude driving for Prema with a decent-ish first season then a title-winning second season thanks to a very good run of form at the end of the season, leading to accusations of favouritism due to his family's name and wealth? If anything he reminds me of Lance Stroll!
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by mario »

yannicksamlad wrote:Meanwhile Dan Ticktum is having trouble getting superlicence points in Asian F3..Struggling to finish in the top 5.

Well, to add insult to injury, it has now been announced that the FIA is no longer awarding superlicence points for the Asian Formula 3 series as it fails to meet the regulatory requirements. For something that Ticktum and his backers must have thought would be an easy way of getting superlicence points, the whole affair has gone badly awry for Ticktum.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Klon »

Once more proving that superlicense points are Super Bullshit 64.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by WaffleCat »

mario wrote:
yannicksamlad wrote:Meanwhile Dan Ticktum is having trouble getting superlicence points in Asian F3..Struggling to finish in the top 5.

Well, to add insult to injury, it has now been announced that the FIA is no longer awarding superlicence points for the Asian Formula 3 series as it fails to meet the regulatory requirements. For something that Ticktum and his backers must have thought would be an easy way of getting superlicence points, the whole affair has gone badly awry for Ticktum.


I find it funny that Ticktum stirred up so much controversy, walking off the podium in one race and overtaking under the safety car in another, combined with other horrific performances, has made the Asian F3 WINTER series a relevant series in motorsport as of right now. Like, Rinus VK's performance would've been ignored otherwise, but Ticktum's tantrums are making his dominating performance seem impressive.

And, yes, I hate Ticktum. Rarely I use the word 'hate' nowadays, but goddamn, I hate how he's touted as the next talent in F1, especially when we know he overtook the entire field to intentionally take out a single driver while under safety car fairly early in his career. Even with alright results afterwards, in this era of safety and 'corporate image', I'm surprised he's given as much backing as he has...
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by yannicksamlad »

WaffleCat wrote:
I find it funny that Ticktum stirred up so much controversy, walking off the podium in one race and overtaking under the safety car in another, combined with other horrific performances, has made the Asian F3 WINTER series a relevant series in motorsport as of right now. Like, Rinus VK's performance would've been ignored otherwise, but Ticktum's tantrums are making his dominating performance seem impressive.

And, yes, I hate Ticktum. Rarely I use the word 'hate' nowadays, but goddamn, I hate how he's touted as the next talent in F1, especially when we know he overtook the entire field to intentionally take out a single driver while under safety car fairly early in his career. Even with alright results afterwards, in this era of safety and 'corporate image', I'm surprised he's given as much backing as he has...


He was very good at Macau 2018, and pretty handy in F3 last season, so he has some results behind him. And to be fair his interview after winning Macau 2017 was quite personable.
But although he served his punishment for that appalling incident, and deserves a second chance , I wonder if his temperament may still be an issue. He stalked off the podium in Asia F3, he made dark mutterings that Mick's Prema engine wasn't 'right' and he did once deliberately crash into a car under safety car. Maybe it's all under control on track, but it's not likeable. And Asian F3 really hasn't helped him look like the next big thing, so we'll see where Super Formula takes him. If he's not impressive there, we can assume Red Bull will drop him.
...and then re-discover him if they run out of options. There do seem to be other prospects for 'backers' like Red Bull, and I've no idea what they particularly see in him, as opposed to some others.
But yes - looks unlikely he'll make F1 2019.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/141171/excaterham-employees-finally-get-small-sum

So the employees of Caterham have finally got some dosh five years later in compensation. It's not much, though it's at least something. The article goes into the legal details a lot more than I'm personally interested in, but here it is for anyone interested.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Nuppiz »

Bottas got himself a new Finnish sponsor.

Cue all puns about Bottas unlocking more performance...
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

Well that's at least got his future more secure, and the wolf Ocon has been kept from the door for a little longer. He really needs a strong season this year, otherwise I more than expect him to get dropped for the Frenchman at very short notice.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by mario »

Rob Dylan wrote:Well that's at least got his future more secure, and the wolf Ocon has been kept from the door for a little longer. He really needs a strong season this year, otherwise I more than expect him to get dropped for the Frenchman at very short notice.

At the very least, what Bottas really needs to try and avoid is the sort of slumps in performance that he has been prone to during previous seasons.

Even when back at Williams, they did complain that, whenever his performance dipped a bit over a season, he had a habit of getting bogged down in that sort of poor patch of form for multiple races. The variation in form that he has tended to go through have been a bit more extreme than his rivals, and I can see Mercedes deciding to let him go at the end of the season for that as much as for anything else - if Ferrari are as competitive in 2019 as they were in 2018, I could see them possibly taking the WCC title if Bottas goes into a similar slump in the latter half of the 2019 season as he has proven prone to in the past.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/143325/wolff-100%25-committed-to-mercedes-amid-f1-job-link

Toto Wolff to become head of F1? There really hasn't been much of interest happening between Baku and now, has there? :D
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Faustus »

Haas loses court case for copying Whyte Bike's logo:

https://whyte.bike/pages/stag

Can't find this anywhere else at this time.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by dr-baker »

Faustus wrote:Haas loses court case for copying Whyte Bike's logo:

https://whyte.bike/pages/stag

Can't find this anywhere else at this time.

It's also on Autosport now.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/144379/kvyat-red-bull-return-wouldnt-be-a-loss-of-face

Now I know in the article that it's talking about Kvyat for 2020, but do I really believe that Red Bull would wait until 2020 to replace Gasly in his current form? I do not, and I would be shocked if such were the case.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Miguel98 »

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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Miguel98 »



:pantano:
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

This must end up at least as an honourable mention in the Reject of the Year awards. Proper rejectful sponsors and great rejectful stories to tell the grandkids :cry:
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
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