The 2019 Silly Season thread

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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by IceG »

Collieafc wrote: Perez is all but guaranteed a seat at the team formerly known as Force India.


Hmmm...

His response to the incident with Ocon was interesting - not the usual cock-sure Perez talking about how he gave him enough room, etc. And the attack on Sirotkin was disgraceful (IMHO - it should have been a black-flag offence), enough for the Sky commentators to mention a discussion about it between Lawrence Stroll and Otmar Szafnauer.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Pacific Edge »

Giovinazzi to get the second Sauber seat

http://espn.com/f1/story/_/id/24791619/ ... auber-2019
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

Great to see, I was worried a space would never open up for him. And it's just more exciting than another year of Ericsson....
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Salamander »

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:Great to see, I was worried a space would never open up for him. And it's just more exciting than another year of Ericsson....


Nothing will ever be more exciting than the Ericsson Era.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Waris »

I have this theory that for the next race (Japan), Lance Stroll will be moved to Force India, to be replaced by Robert Kubica. Williams want to compare the performance of Kubica and Sirotkin, because one of them will drive for them next year. The other seat will be occupied by... Esteban Ocon!

See:https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/241613/ocon-negotiating-with-williams-over-2019-drive

Also, apparently Toro Rosso are considering Kubica for a drive(!), although Helmut Marko hasn't contacted him yet. https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/241452/williams-not-only-option-for-future-kubica
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Faustus »

I don't understand why Red Bull doesn't tell Ricciardo to stay home and puts Gasly in the car. This would allow Toro Rosso to try out Wehrlein, Kvyat or whoever-the-hell-will-get-the-drive-in-2019 to get some time in the car. Red Bull is safely in 3rd place, won't be 2nd and can't be beaten by Renault.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

Not that I disagree with your point - I certainly don't - but I would assume that Ricciardo has enough success and reputation to get himself an airtight contract. He also strikes me as someone who simply loves the racing, and puts it above anything else. He certainly doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would agree to sitting out for other people if he didn't absolutely have to.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Pacific Edge »

Waris wrote:I have this theory that for the next race (Japan), Lance Stroll will be moved to Force India, to be replaced by Robert Kubica. Williams want to compare the performance of Kubica and Sirotkin, because one of them will drive for them next year. The other seat will be occupied by... Esteban Ocon!

See:https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/241613/ocon-negotiating-with-williams-over-2019-drive

Also, apparently Toro Rosso are considering Kubica for a drive(!), although Helmut Marko hasn't contacted him yet. https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/241452/williams-not-only-option-for-future-kubica


Most of that is quite possible, think Kubica to STR is bit of a stretch, he'd probably want a multi-year deal if approached, and I'm guessing Marko is just looking for someone to fill a seat for a year while the junior guys work toward a superlicense. Although it would be cool if it happens
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by mario »

Faustus wrote:I don't understand why Red Bull doesn't tell Ricciardo to stay home and puts Gasly in the car. This would allow Toro Rosso to try out Wehrlein, Kvyat or whoever-the-hell-will-get-the-drive-in-2019 to get some time in the car. Red Bull is safely in 3rd place, won't be 2nd and can't be beaten by Renault.

Good to see you again - it's been some time since I last say you posting here.

I guess that one possible argument might be because Honda are introducing a new specification engine in Russia as a way of testing some concepts for their 2019 spec engine. It may be that Red Bull prefer to keep Gasly in Toro Rosso to gather information on the new spec engine and to act as a means for them to direct development of the 2019 spec engine - in other words, it may be that they are prepared to compromise on the short term prospects of Toro Rosso if they think it is more favourable for the long term interests of the parent team to keep Gasly there.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by mario »

So, Haas have now announced that they will be keeping their current line up of Magnussen and Grosjean for 2019. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas ... n/3184583/

It says something about how much movement there has suddenly been in the driver market that, out of the teams which have announced their 2019 line up, only Mercedes and Haas will be keeping the same drivers in 2019.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Faustus »

mario wrote:
Faustus wrote:I don't understand why Red Bull doesn't tell Ricciardo to stay home and puts Gasly in the car. This would allow Toro Rosso to try out Wehrlein, Kvyat or whoever-the-hell-will-get-the-drive-in-2019 to get some time in the car. Red Bull is safely in 3rd place, won't be 2nd and can't be beaten by Renault.

Good to see you again - it's been some time since I last say you posting here.


Thank you! It's good to be back. The IT bloke at work left and his parting gift was to unblock everything so I can access the forum from work. I've lurked around a bit as a guest from home but I haven't had a lot of time in the last few years. Very happy to see that you guys have remained active and that the standard of discussion remains as high as ever.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

In all honesty, I'm surprised they did stay with the line-up they did! I expected Magnussen as a possible Räikkönen replacement for a season, and I really didn't expect Grosjean to get another season after how he's been this season. Ok, he's avoiding Reject of the Year after his decent performances on occasion, but his season has been wacky to say the least, and I'm surprised Haas didn't snatch up someone else, maybe younger to have as a future prospect. They have more faith in Rmn than I do.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by mario »

Faustus wrote:
mario wrote:
Faustus wrote:I don't understand why Red Bull doesn't tell Ricciardo to stay home and puts Gasly in the car. This would allow Toro Rosso to try out Wehrlein, Kvyat or whoever-the-hell-will-get-the-drive-in-2019 to get some time in the car. Red Bull is safely in 3rd place, won't be 2nd and can't be beaten by Renault.

Good to see you again - it's been some time since I last say you posting here.


Thank you! It's good to be back. The IT bloke at work left and his parting gift was to unblock everything so I can access the forum from work. I've lurked around a bit as a guest from home but I haven't had a lot of time in the last few years. Very happy to see that you guys have remained active and that the standard of discussion remains as high as ever.

That's a welcome parting gift from him, as it is good to see your input on things on the forum once again (and I'm glad that you've found things much as they were).

Rob Dylan wrote:In all honesty, I'm surprised they did stay with the line-up they did! I expected Magnussen as a possible Räikkönen replacement for a season, and I really didn't expect Grosjean to get another season after how he's been this season. Ok, he's avoiding Reject of the Year after his decent performances on occasion, but his season has been wacky to say the least, and I'm surprised Haas didn't snatch up someone else, maybe younger to have as a future prospect. They have more faith in Rmn than I do.

I wonder if part of that might be down to what has happened with Leclerc and Giovinazzi, as there had been a suggestion that Ferrari had toyed with the idea of placing one of those two drivers at Haas at first.

The fact that Magnussen has stayed on is probably not hugely surprising - Steiner had indicated earlier in the year that they were losing patience with Grosjean though, so it is a little surprising that he has stayed on. Mind you, he has been more consistent and started scoring points more regularly since then, so perhaps Steiner thinks that Grosjean has turned a corner.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by BigG80 »

How many corners can Grosjean turn though before he ends up back at 2012?

He is a quick driver but I can't help thinking there are other drivers available who could deliver through more consistency. Although then we are back into that whole Mercedes driver so not welcome here thing.

I was hoping that Ocon, Wehrlein and Russell would all make it onto the 2019 grid but there just aren't enough seats or enough willing team principles for it to happen now.

I also really want Markelov in F1. He gets a lot of stick across social media but he is excellent at tyre preservation, a demon overtaker and would be in the title hunt in F2 if he hadn't had so many issues at the beginning of the season. Yes, partly that was him struggling to adapt to the new car in qualifying but his race pace was always on point and I seem to recall he had a chassis change as well. Along with a couple of retirements from engine and car failures.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139022/kvyat-returns-to-toro-rosso-for-2019

Kvyat's Last Stand has been extended for another season!

But seriously, really? I could never have imagined this would be a thing? Is Daniil so desperate for a drive? Or are they offering him a big pay increase?
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Waris »

Rob Dylan wrote:https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139022/kvyat-returns-to-toro-rosso-for-2019

Kvyat's Last Stand has been extended for another season!

But seriously, really? I could never have imagined this would be a thing? Is Daniil so desperate for a drive? Or are they offering him a big pay increase?


OH BOY OH BOY THERE IT IS

Surely this has never happened in the history of F1 before: a driver who returns to the same team twice, one time after being fired by that same team?

Edit: Someone should make a meme out of this. Something better than this crap attempt I whipped up in under two seconds:

Image

I do wonder what this means for the relationship between Daniil and Toro Rosso...
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Pacific Edge »

Marko says he'll sign Ocon if he cuts all ties to Merc.
http://kwese.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/248 ... tipulation

Do you think he should do it?
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by dr-baker »

Pacific 777 wrote:Marko says he'll sign Ocon if he cuts all ties to Merc.
http://kwese.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/248 ... tipulation

Do you think he should do it?

Yes.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by mario »

dr-baker wrote:
Pacific 777 wrote:Marko says he'll sign Ocon if he cuts all ties to Merc.
http://kwese.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/248 ... tipulation

Do you think he should do it?

Yes.

But would he then go through with it and hire Ocon afterwards? I wouldn't put it past Marko to try and pressurise Mercedes and Ocon to do something like that, only to then not hire Ocon just to create problems for both of them.

I'm also interested in why it is so much of a problem to Toro Rosso for Ocon to be under contract with somebody else if Renault were willing to give Ocon a seat whilst allowing Ocon to keep his contract with Mercedes (the talk being that Renault were planning to give Sainz Jr's seat to Ocon before Ricciardo rather surprised Renault by accepting their offer to him).
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by girry »

Waris wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139022/kvyat-returns-to-toro-rosso-for-2019

Kvyat's Last Stand has been extended for another season!

But seriously, really? I could never have imagined this would be a thing? Is Daniil so desperate for a drive? Or are they offering him a big pay increase?


OH BOY OH BOY THERE IT IS

Surely this has never happened in the history of F1 before: a driver who returns to the same team twice, one time after being fired by that same team?


Hmm, probably not. You could say Mansell at Williams, although it's still a bit up in the debate whether it was Williams firing Mansell or Mansell firing Williams each time.

Jarier had a few Ligier stints as well but don't think he was ever fired by them either.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by mario »

Whilst we've had silly season with the drivers so far, now it seems that Liberty Media are putting forward a proposal to change the qualifying format.

Instead of the current system of three sessions, they want to have four sessions - the proposal would be to drop four drivers in Q1, Q2 and Q3 respectively, with Q4 being reduced to an 8 car shoot out instead. Each of the sessions would be shortened slightly, although the gaps between sessions would also be reduced.

Now, I can't see where the popular support for this idea is, so I don't buy the argument from Liberty Media that it is "what the fans want" - most seem happy with the current system as it is. I wonder if the idea of having a larger number of gaps between the different sessions in qualifying might be one that is designed to appeal to commercial advertisers - by breaking the session into four parts, you introduce the opportunity for an additional ad break for those who show adverts between the different sessions.

That might make it more attractive for broadcasters who might want to show the live qualifying sessions (particularly in the US, knowing that is the market Liberty Media seems to be playing to, but likely also to a wider international audience).
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by IceG »

mario wrote:
Instead of the current system of three sessions, they want to have four sessions - the proposal would be to drop four drivers in Q1, Q2 and Q3 respectively, with Q4 being reduced to an 8 car shoot out instead. Each of the sessions would be shortened slightly, although the gaps between sessions would also be reduced.



Downside - that is going to make tyre allocations and tyre strategy even more complex.

Upside - that might stop teams just not bothering for "strategic reasons (yes Renault - I am looking at you, grr).

Now if participation was mandatory (at least one lap within 7% of each qualy sub-session cut off), or there were a couple more teams, this might make sporting sense.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Klon »

mario wrote:Instead of the current system of three sessions, they want to have four sessions - the proposal would be to drop four drivers in Q1, Q2 and Q3 respectively, with Q4 being reduced to an 8 car shoot out instead. Each of the sessions would be shortened slightly, although the gaps between sessions would also be reduced.


So basically a variation of the qualifying system DTM had for a couple of years in the late 00s. I can dig it, that mode was rather fun, but I haven't seen much demand for a change either and can fully agree that this is for the sake of the TV partners more than anything else.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

mario wrote:Now, I can't see where the popular support for this idea is, so I don't buy the argument from Liberty Media that it is "what the fans want".

Looking at the way they've been phrasing their "Fan Voice" surveys, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if one of them produced a result that would lead to such a conclusion.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Barbazza »

Pacific 777 wrote:Marko says he'll sign Ocon if he cuts all ties to Merc.
http://kwese.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/248 ... tipulation

Do you think he should do it?


No, no a thousand times no. Do not have anything to do with that man.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by sswishbone »

Personally I don't see why this is needed when one small change can sort this out. The controversial tyres from Q2 rule is the problem. With teams given free choice outside the top ten.

My solution? Scrap the tyre rule from qualifying, reduce the total amount of free sets for the weekend, and enforce a rule that each tyre has to have a minimum useage of six laps over free practice sessions.

That way everyone can have qualifying only fresh tyres - provided by Pirelli - for Q1, Q2 and Q3 that teams must give back. Then at session end nominate a used tyre from their FP 1 - 3 tyres to start the race.

Everyone gets free compound choice for old tyres, no one gains benefit of new tyres. Win - win
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by mario »

Simtek wrote:
mario wrote:Now, I can't see where the popular support for this idea is, so I don't buy the argument from Liberty Media that it is "what the fans want".

Looking at the way they've been phrasing their "Fan Voice" surveys, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if one of them produced a result that would lead to such a conclusion.

Yes, I do agree that the surveys have been set up with leading questions that are designed to push the fans towards giving a particular answer - even then, it seems that the idea of changing the qualifying sessions towards this format wasn't that popular.

IceG wrote:
mario wrote:
Instead of the current system of three sessions, they want to have four sessions - the proposal would be to drop four drivers in Q1, Q2 and Q3 respectively, with Q4 being reduced to an 8 car shoot out instead. Each of the sessions would be shortened slightly, although the gaps between sessions would also be reduced.



Downside - that is going to make tyre allocations and tyre strategy even more complex.

Upside - that might stop teams just not bothering for "strategic reasons (yes Renault - I am looking at you, grr).

Now if participation was mandatory (at least one lap within 7% of each qualy sub-session cut off), or there were a couple more teams, this might make sporting sense.

Liberty Media were thinking about adjusting the tyre allocation to encourage teams to take part in those qualifying sessions, so it looks as if they are trying to avoid teams not taking part for "strategic reasons". Mind you, it didn't exactly work out for Renault in Russia anyway - the guys at the back of the top 10 were still in the points at the end and Renault didn't make up any places, so it wasn't really worth the effort.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by AustralianStig »

Pacific 777 wrote:Marko says he'll sign Ocon if he cuts all ties to Merc.
http://kwese.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/248 ... tipulation

Do you think he should do it?

After listening to Ocon's interview on the Beyond The Grid podcast, I can't see him leaving the Mercedes program in the near future. He likened Mercedes to his family and called Toto his racing father. Toto made sure that he got a GP3 seat when he had literally run out of options and was going to go back to his home town and help his dad in a mechanic workshop (for road cars).

Let's hope he's too talented to be off the grid for any longer than one season and does a Hulkenberg-style comeback.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by James1978 »

So, am I right in thinking that the only 2019 seats still up for grabs are 1 at Toro Rosso and 2 at Williams?

I'd love to see Kubica/Ocon at Williams.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Ataxia »

The silly season continues, in a way. Artem Markelov's father has been taken into custody as part of an investigation into corruption, which could affect his backing - Markelov has been talking to Williams about a drive for next season. It's also been rumoured that Kubica's found some more backing, while Williams have said that they'd be happy to take both Ocon and Russell for 2019...if Mercedes stump up $20m for the pair of them.

There's more, as Sirotkin is apparently now in talks for the vacant Toro Rosso drive. Pascal Wehrlein is an option, but he looks set for one of the Mahindra FE drives.

So who's left on the table for Tost, Marko and co? Drivers with superlicense points and who remain uncontracted for next year are Ocon and Russell (but Mercedes links have nixed their hopes), de Vries (although he seems set for a Formula E drive somewhere), Mick Schumacher (although that's unlikely), Anthoine Hubert (doing the maths, he's got the requisite 40 points - but it's way too early for him). Oh, and Brendon Hartley of course...
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

Not that Red Bull are incredibly predictable or anything, but to me I see Mick Schumacher's chances as being massive. Simply because of his recent success and huge name. It's absolutely not the first time the junior programme has been in this position, and certainly not the first time it's had the ability to market itself with quick sons of famous former racers.

In this climate of Red Bull's programme, and with Marko hiring Mick, it seems like it might be more likely than you think.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by tommykl »

Ataxia wrote:So who's left on the table for Tost, Marko and co? Drivers with superlicense points and who remain uncontracted for next year are Ocon and Russell (but Mercedes links have nixed their hopes), de Vries (although he seems set for a Formula E drive somewhere), Mick Schumacher (although that's unlikely), Anthoine Hubert (doing the maths, he's got the requisite 40 points - but it's way too early for him). Oh, and Stoffel Vandoorne of course...

There, fixed that for you

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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Ataxia »

tommykl wrote:
Ataxia wrote:So who's left on the table for Tost, Marko and co? Drivers with superlicense points and who remain uncontracted for next year are Ocon and Russell (but Mercedes links have nixed their hopes), de Vries (although he seems set for a Formula E drive somewhere), Mick Schumacher (although that's unlikely), Anthoine Hubert (doing the maths, he's got the requisite 40 points - but it's way too early for him). Oh, and Stoffel Vandoorne of course...

There, fixed that for you

;)


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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Butterfox »

Waris wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139022/kvyat-returns-to-toro-rosso-for-2019

Kvyat's Last Stand has been extended for another season!

But seriously, really? I could never have imagined this would be a thing? Is Daniil so desperate for a drive? Or are they offering him a big pay increase?


OH BOY OH BOY THERE IT IS

Surely this has never happened in the history of F1 before: a driver who returns to the same team twice, one time after being fired by that same team?


If i'm not mistaken, Pierluigi Martini got fired from Minardi thrice. (and returned 2 of those 3 times)
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Ataxia
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Ataxia »

Mitch Hedberg wrote:I want to be a race car passenger: just a guy who bugs the driver. Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Man, you really like Tide...
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Ducktanian
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Ducktanian »

Hell yeah! Local boy done good :D
Hopefully he doesnt languish at the back in the terribleness of the Williams.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

The news about George Russell makes me really happy. I think it would have been a bad showing for the junior drivers if Norris had been the only one to get a drive, especially with his connections and his imperfect showing this year in F2. I'm glad Russell is getting his chance :)
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Pacific Edge »

Congrats to him, would have preferred to see Kubica and Ocon at WIlliams next year though.
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by Ataxia »

Ocon to Williams didn't really work for either party.

Williams didn't want Ocon on the basis that he'd only have been available for a one-year deal, and Ocon would hardly benefit from a year with a team down on their luck. It makes sense for Russell, as they can give him a chance to develop in a relatively low-pressure environment.

Russell's a good fit, too. He's the sort of driver who wants the best from himself and from the team; he's not afraid to push the team if he thinks he's not getting enough from them, but he'll be equally as demanding from himself. In Sochi, he stayed very late with the ART mechanics on the Saturday night to turn things around - net result, he won the sprint race.
Mitch Hedberg wrote:I want to be a race car passenger: just a guy who bugs the driver. Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Man, you really like Tide...
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Re: The 2019 Silly Season thread

Post by DemocalypseNow »

Ocon's Mercedes backing is a double-edged sword. His association with the works team, the possibility that he could be called up as soon as next year to replace Bottas, has severely compromised his political capital. Every team that was seriously considering him as an option instead selected a driver who could be locked down on a multi-year contract. It severely weakened his political capital in the driver marketplace – somewhat ironic given he has the backing of an automotive giant behind him. Usually, they're the ones with all the political capital.

And yet, no matter how dire his position in the driver merry-go-round may now be, we must remember where Ocon would be had he not been approached by Wolff to join the Mercedes stable in late 2014.

"Between the end of 2014 and the start of 2015, if Toto Wolff had not been there to help me, I'd probably be flipping burgers at McDonald's now. Without the support, I would not have been able to continue racing. I didn't have any money. But then Toto came to talk to me…"

There's no denying he belongs in one of F1's 20 seats on merit alone. But driver decisions in the modern era are driven by political and commercial factors, not talent, of which at the midfield level there is plenty. He's been forced out of his current seat for exactly those reasons, which on the face of it seems unfair. But no matter what comes next, consider that managed two and a half seasons more seasons in F1 than his budget should have allowed. His Mercedes backing may have compromised him in the past three months. But without it, he had no route into F1 at all.
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