2021 Discussion Thread

The place for speaking your mind on current goings-on in F1
Post Reply
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8090
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by mario »

Rob Dylan wrote:Today's storm in a teacup comes from Daniel Ricciardo being caught on microphone that something or other was "terrible. It’s shite, it’s worse" when standing next to the new 2022 car.

I can only assume he was talking about the new season of his favourite tv show, but folks are blowing it up to "2022 is going to be terrible because Daniel says so!"

Perhaps it's more because there have been those wondering if Ricciardo's "retraction" was because Liberty Media had put pressure on him to withdraw the remarks, rather than being of his own volition.

It's not the first time that some have wondered if that has been happening, given that drivers seemed to be having to be a lot more circumspect in their comments about the "sprint qualifying" proposal after Liberty Media held a briefing session with them - indeed, Gasly made a comment after the meeting implying that they had been put under pressure to not speak out against that proposal.

Wallio wrote:I mean if he was talking about that rainbow unicorn vomit livery they stuck on it, he's 100% right. It's amazing how much improved the car looked on Friday with all the teams releasing their own renders.

I wonder if people will feel quite the same if the 2022 cars all look pretty much the same - I don't think that some have quite realised quite how restrictive the 2022 rule set is, or quite how aggressively it limits the bodywork shapes to fit to a very clear template that those rule writers want the cars to follow (with an argument that the rules are far more proscriptive than they really need to be to make the cars work in the way they want them to).
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
User avatar
Wallio
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2624
Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 22:54
Location: The Wyoming Valley, PA

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Wallio »

mario wrote:I wonder if people will feel quite the same if the 2022 cars all look pretty much the same - I don't think that some have quite realised quite how restrictive the 2022 rule set is, or quite how aggressively it limits the bodywork shapes to fit to a very clear template that those rule writers want the cars to follow (with an argument that the rules are far more proscriptive than they really need to be to make the cars work in the way they want them to).


While I in no way think that is a good thing, and with the full disclosure that I'll probably be one of the loudest complainers if that ends up being true, I do think with the cost cap, some form of convergence (natural or forced) was inevitable. I figured it would take a bit longer, when the really restrictive caps come in, but the idea is the same.
Professional Historian/Retired Drag Racer/Whiskey Enthusiast

"He makes the move on the outside, and knowing George as we do, he's probably on the radio right now telling the team how great he is." - James Hinchcliffe on George Russell
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8090
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by mario »

Wallio wrote:
mario wrote:I wonder if people will feel quite the same if the 2022 cars all look pretty much the same - I don't think that some have quite realised quite how restrictive the 2022 rule set is, or quite how aggressively it limits the bodywork shapes to fit to a very clear template that those rule writers want the cars to follow (with an argument that the rules are far more proscriptive than they really need to be to make the cars work in the way they want them to).


While I in no way think that is a good thing, and with the full disclosure that I'll probably be one of the loudest complainers if that ends up being true, I do think with the cost cap, some form of convergence (natural or forced) was inevitable. I figured it would take a bit longer, when the really restrictive caps come in, but the idea is the same.

It really is quite forced this time around - the technical regulations on the bodywork have been changed to be much more prescriptive, and the way that the zones where bodywork can be placed have been defined creates a pretty narrow design envelope (https://f1tcdn.net/images/features/2021 ... 3-2022.png to see how they are defined in the 2022 regulations).
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
User avatar
Rob Dylan
Posts: 3475
Joined: 18 May 2014, 15:34
Location: Andy Warhol's basement

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Rob Dylan »

If I may give my verdict on Sprint Race Qualifying Race Bonanza, a.k.a. The Sprint, I had no real problem with seeing cars race of course, but there didn't feel like there was anything really special about it other than the fact it was just a shorter version of the normal races.

If I were the FiA and people with a genuine interest in improving the format of what they have, I would try to think of ways of making it unique as a spectacle. Not "putting them in a truck that says 'buy Dogecoin' and driving them around the circuit", but something that makes the race format itself unique. Perhaps having a specific sprint tyre, or (dare I say it) some kind of elimination format. I don't know, but just from watching that I didn't feel anything special about the sprint after a few laps were done. Just a short race with guaranteed points for Ham-Bot-Ver, which I doubt interests anyone.
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
User avatar
CoopsII
Posts: 4673
Joined: 15 Dec 2011, 09:33
Location: Starkiller Base Debris

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by CoopsII »

Rob Dylan wrote:If I may give my verdict on Sprint Race Qualifying Race Bonanza, a.k.a. The Sprint,

I didn't hate it but it didn't feel necessary, either.

Old Man Trivia - I remember Saturday 'Sprint Races' being put forward as an idea in 1995 by Flavio Briatore. I think the BTCC had featured at Silverstone that year and Flav liked what he saw. Of course, the idea was shot down at the time but I wonder if it was mentioned through the smoke of Mild Seven to his technical director Mr Ross Brawn.
Just For One Day...
User avatar
Klon
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 7184
Joined: 28 Mar 2009, 17:07
Location: Schleswig-Holstein, FRG
Contact:

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Klon »

CoopsII wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:If I may give my verdict on Sprint Race Qualifying Race Bonanza, a.k.a. The Sprint,

I didn't hate it but it didn't feel necessary, either.


A perfect summary. To me, it felt "more relevant" as a qualifying than the one-lap showdown, but in turn it's not quite as fun. I am not going to lose sleep over it becoming a regular fixture (and that is happening), but nor I do I want that smeared all over my rye bread like it's good fresh cheese either.
User avatar
UncreativeUsername37
Posts: 3420
Joined: 25 May 2012, 14:36
Location: Earth

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - British GP discussion!

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

Whenever something exciting happened in the sprint race, I was excited, then five seconds later I thought "I would've been slightly more excited if there wasn't a competition red a quarter of the way through". But for the most part it just felt so weird seeing a qualifying race in F1 I don't know what to think of it yet....
Rob Dylan wrote:Mercedes paying homage to the other W12 chassis by breaking down 30 minutes in
User avatar
Butterfox
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 6192
Joined: 30 Nov 2009, 19:45
Location: Stupid, sexy Flanders.

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Butterfox »

Personally i found the sprint race the most boring thing to happen in years. The only things that happened where the start and Alonso reviving the Trulli-train.In a full race you'd at least have some strategy to keep me focussed.

I didn't hate it though as it was short, but it's not an added value.

The problem is, there's already 23 races (under normal circumstances), of which some will be boring. If it were a 15 race season, maybe it wouldn't bother me so much to add some extra. But now i'm thinking, how many more races can you add before fans massively start quitting?
I don't know what i want and i want it now!
yannicksamlad
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 644
Joined: 19 May 2014, 11:16

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by yannicksamlad »

I can see some people watching the sprint race and deciding they didn't want to bother with the Sunday GP...
And missing quite an event!

I really think it dilutes the GP as a special event having another F1 race in the same weekend with the same competitors.
I started supporting Emmo in 1976 (3 points )....missed 75, 74, 73, 72...
User avatar
Rob Dylan
Posts: 3475
Joined: 18 May 2014, 15:34
Location: Andy Warhol's basement

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Rob Dylan »

yannicksamlad wrote:I can see some people watching the sprint race and deciding they didn't want to bother with the Sunday GP...
And missing quite an event!

I really think it dilutes the GP as a special event having another F1 race in the same weekend with the same competitors.
A dumb idea I don't even think is dumb anymore, is this:

- Friday, the drivers qualify for the sprint and get their cars set up.
- Saturday the RESERVE drivers practice in those cars in the morning, and then do the sprint.
- Sunday the main drivers get back in the car in the position their reserves qualified them in and do the race.

It would make the sprint something entirely different. It would give them something to actually do on Saturday morning practice. And it would give us Esteban Gutiérrez getting Lewis pole in a Mercedes :D (of course the three points would go to Esteban :twisted: )
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8090
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by mario »

So, considering the heat and fury that was expended by Red Bull in Silverstone, their attempts at getting the protest reviewed have been immediately chucked out.

It is being reported that their submission effectively consisted of simulator work that was intended to show Hamilton wasn't going to make the corner, data collected from the post-race Pirelli tyre tests that Albon conducted and illustrations based on the aforementioned data.

The response from the stewards has been to point out that the regulations state that any new information is meant to come from the race itself, with the simulator data and Pirelli tyre test data being irrelevant and invalid for use. Meanwhile, the visualisations turn out to all be based on exactly the same GPS data that the stewards were already given for their analysis - leading the stewards to rather pointedly state that any new information should be “‘discovered’ (as opposed to created)”.

More interesting is a secondary comment made by the stewards, which is that “The Stewards note, with some concern, certain allegations made in the Competitor's above letter. Such allegations may or may not have been relevant to the Stewards if the Petition for Review had been granted. The Stewards may have addressed these allegations directly in any decision that would have followed. The Petition having been dismissed, the Stewards make no comments on those allegations.

It has made some wonder what exactly Red Bull were apparently claiming in that letter to the stewards, and taken by some as the FIA implying that, if Red Bull continue in this vein, they might get hit with "bringing the sport into disrepute".
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
IceG
Posts: 681
Joined: 06 Oct 2011, 17:24
Location: London (the one in England)

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by IceG »

So morphing into the Hungarian GP discussion thread....

That was some masterful trollling by Mercedes on the last Q3 runs. Brilliantly planned, timed and executed teamwork to secure a double front row. Now Red Bull are on the wrong race tyres and not on the front row of the grid. Verstappen may be able to get a faster start and slip-stream Hamilton but with Bottas in second playing the team game Verstappen cannot move over to get alongside and go round the outside into the first corner. And I cannot see Verstappen trying an aggressive run up the inside against Bottas as he turns in because Bottas has nothing to lose while Verstappen needs to get at least second in the race to be sure of not going behind in the championship.
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8090
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by mario »

IceG wrote:So morphing into the Hungarian GP discussion thread....

That was some masterful trollling by Mercedes on the last Q3 runs. Brilliantly planned, timed and executed teamwork to secure a double front row. Now Red Bull are on the wrong race tyres and not on the front row of the grid. Verstappen may be able to get a faster start and slip-stream Hamilton but with Bottas in second playing the team game Verstappen cannot move over to get alongside and go round the outside into the first corner. And I cannot see Verstappen trying an aggressive run up the inside against Bottas as he turns in because Bottas has nothing to lose while Verstappen needs to get at least second in the race to be sure of not going behind in the championship.

I have seen this accusation being put around, but that seems to be a consequence of the way that the TV producers have cut the shots of the cars on track to cut out what was happening in front of the two Mercedes drivers. If you look at what the driver tracker was showing the other drivers ahead of those four were doing, then I am not so sure that it was so much of an intentional act, and more of a case of too many drivers tripping over themselves as they basically gambled on going out as late as possible to try and get better track conditions.

An individual over on F1Technical has been providing screenshots - this is the situation at the start of the final runs in Q3:
Image
At this point in time, Perez is just exiting the pits at the end of a train of nine cars, wtih Gasly at the head of that pack.

Image
At this point in time, Gasly slows his pace a little in the middle sector - this results in the pack being compressed slightly, with Norris and Ocon beginning to catch the Gasly-Leclerc-Alonso group in the middle sector. Bottas is being advised on the gap to Ocon in front, which Bottas is trying to keep at between 2 and 4 seconds, with Hamilton also being advised to keep a similar gap to those in front. Red Bull, meanwhile, were advising Verstappen that he was OK to stay behind Hamilton, but could overtake if needed.

Image
Now the problems begin to start - Leclerc appears to have decided that he needed to build a larger gap to Gasly in front of him, so he slows down on the approach to Turn 11 to let Gasly pull further ahead.

Image
As he does so, Alonso also slows down his pace slightly to maintain a similar gap to Leclerc. Norris and Ocon both see this, and they too check their speed. Bottas, seeing that Ocon had slowed slightly as he was going through the middle sector, also begins to slow down a bit himself to maintain a similar gap to those in front.

Image
Again, as drivers are coming round the final few turns, you see a similar pattern emerge - drivers are progressively slowing down in Turns 12 and 13 so that they can then accelerate hard through Turn 14 and onto the main straight. At this point in time, Norris has waited for Alonso to pull out a bit of a gap down the main straight, which in turn is slowing up Ocon, Bottas, Hamilton, Verstappen and finally Perez.

Taking into account that there were five other midfield drivers in front, I would say that it looks more like a case of those in front slowing down and then causing a bit of a chain reaction further down the line. Even if Verstappen had got in front of the two Mercedes drivers, he'd have faced the problem Bottas had - he'd have run into the back of Ocon and Norris, who were themselves being backed up by Alonso and Leclerc.

To me, it looks a bit like the Monza qualifying farce - that, in trying to get the best track conditions by being last in the queue, Mercedes and Red Bull ended up having their outlaps dictated by the speed of the midfield drivers in front of them. As soon as one of them began slowing down, then they all started slowing down to maintain a similar gap - it feels more like a case of trying to be a bit too clever, only for the situation to come back and bite them.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
IceG
Posts: 681
Joined: 06 Oct 2011, 17:24
Location: London (the one in England)

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by IceG »

In every one of those screenshots, if you move the two Mercedes in front of Ocon then there is lots of clear track ahead of both Verstappen and Perez - as there is between Norris and Alonso. And in every shot Verstappen is right up Hamilton's chuff ("swarming all over his gearbox" as Murray would have said).

Either way, the first three corners will be interesting...
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8090
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by mario »

IceG wrote:In every one of those screenshots, if you move the two Mercedes in front of Ocon then there is lots of clear track ahead of both Verstappen and Perez - as there is between Norris and Alonso. And in every shot Verstappen is right up Hamilton's chuff ("swarming all over his gearbox" as Murray would have said).

Either way, the first three corners will be interesting...

But, if you then insert the two Mercedes cars between Ocon and Norris, wouldn't that then encourage Ocon to drop back to create a gap for himself, meaning that Ocon then becomes a problem for Red Bull?

The timing data and radio transmissions indicate all of the drivers were being encouraged to keep a similar gap of around 2-4 seconds to each other. Ocon was being given advice on how to pace himself relative to Norris for most of that lap - if you put the two Mercedes drivers in front, then he'd be told to recreate that same gap to the trailing Mercedes driver.

Therefore, I don't see how a gap would appear, because Ocon would be shuffled back into the place where Hamilton once was - it just recreates the same problem with a slightly different car order. Overall, I don't really see how Verstappen or Perez get a better lap - their pace is still going to be largely dictated by the fact that they are the last drivers in a train of cars that is about half a minute long, and where drivers in front are periodically slowing down to create a gap for themselves.

That is why we've already had Perez say that "I just paid the price by being the the last car of the train" and that he doesn't believe that the Mercedes drivers were trying to hold up the two Red Bull cars on purpose. If Perez, the driver who was arguably worst impacted, is basically just putting it down to bad luck, I'm more inclined to go with him.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
User avatar
Rob Dylan
Posts: 3475
Joined: 18 May 2014, 15:34
Location: Andy Warhol's basement

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Rob Dylan »

mario wrote:If Perez, the driver who was arguably worst impacted, is basically just putting it down to bad luck, I'm more inclined to go with him.
Yeah, Pérez knows it was a circumstantial thing, and it's hardly the first time it's happened. Plus, I imagine he's likewise tired of the unending drama-rama of the last two weeks and just wants to get on with it. He's far more interested in trying to get a momentum to his season rather than "did Hamilton slow up your teammate on purpose?????"
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
IceG
Posts: 681
Joined: 06 Oct 2011, 17:24
Location: London (the one in England)

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Hungarian GP discussion!

Post by IceG »

Q1 if Hamilton had also pulled in to change his tyres on the restart, how would the restart have worked? There would have been no cars on the grid, no lights going out (?) and no wait for the cars to pass the end of the pit-lane. So when would the pit-lane have opened? And would overtakes in the pit-lane have counted?

Q2 There are suggestions that had Hamilton pulled into the pits to change his tyres on the restart he would have then been behind some or all of the other cars which pulled in after him but were further down the pit-lane. But Russell pulled into the last garage on the pit lane and thus emerged at the front but was forced to give the places back. Would not the same then have applied to Hamilton and all the cars which over took him would have had to give way once back on the circuit?
User avatar
Londoner
Posts: 6423
Joined: 17 Jun 2010, 18:21
Location: Norwich, UK
Contact:

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Londoner »

Sadly it looks like Vettel and possibly one of the Williams drivers are going to be disqualified for not having enough fuel to pass post-race scrutineering.



I know this will be a wildly unpopular opinion and should be rightly shot down by everyone, but if Liberty Media and F1 are intent on going down the entertainment factor (standing restarts, sprint races, social media etc), the absolute least they can do is not take away feel-good results from drivers post-race. Fines, or NASCAR-style punishments like having the strategist suspended for a race should be the way forward. Yes, this has the effect of making F1 like a motorised WWE, but honestly, F1 can ill-afford bad PR in the social media age.

With Vettel, the optics for F1 look even worse given his reprimand for the Pride T-shirt ("WeRaceAsOne", but not when it suits bigots"). This series loves to shoot itself in the foot.
Fetzie on Ferrari wrote:How does a driver hurtling around a race track while they're sous-viding in their overalls have a better understanding of the race than a team of strategy engineers in an air-conditioned room?l
User avatar
Paul Hayes
Posts: 1101
Joined: 17 Apr 2009, 19:54

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Paul Hayes »

What a barmy old race!

The sight of Hamilton lining up to take the restart alone must be one of the most extraordinary happenings in the history of F1. Imagine if he'd come in too, and the whole start lights procedure had happened for... Nobody!

One of those races like Monza last year where so many people had unexpectedly good results, yet will also be perhaps ruefully thinking "If only..." At least in Vettel and Alonso's cases they're big enough and ugly enough to take it, and have the wins and titles behind them for it not to matter too much.

I'm pleased for Ocon, and particularly for Williams. And you have to stand up and salute Hamilton's recovery drive - I had thought he had Verstappen were doomed to carry out their "two bald men fighting over a comb" act at the back of the field for the whole race. A shame Verstappen's damage didn't allow him to try and fight is way back too - but who knows how important that single point may be come the season's end? Or indeed the one Gasly pinched from Hamilton on the last lap...?
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8090
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Hungarian GP discussion!

Post by mario »

IceG wrote:Q1 if Hamilton had also pulled in to change his tyres on the restart, how would the restart have worked? There would have been no cars on the grid, no lights going out (?) and no wait for the cars to pass the end of the pit-lane. So when would the pit-lane have opened? And would overtakes in the pit-lane have counted?

Q2 There are suggestions that had Hamilton pulled into the pits to change his tyres on the restart he would have then been behind some or all of the other cars which pulled in after him but were further down the pit-lane. But Russell pulled into the last garage on the pit lane and thus emerged at the front but was forced to give the places back. Would not the same then have applied to Hamilton and all the cars which over took him would have had to give way once back on the circuit?

There is an interesting question over whether the drivers who did enter the pit lane might have actually broken the rules. There is apparently a clause that states that the drivers should have started from the grid at the restart if the stewards state there will be a standing start, so there is an argument that Hamilton may have been the only one who technically did comply with the rules.

Londoner wrote:Sadly it looks like Vettel and possibly one of the Williams drivers are going to be disqualified for not having enough fuel to pass post-race scrutineering.



I know this will be a wildly unpopular opinion and should be rightly shot down by everyone, but if Liberty Media and F1 are intent on going down the entertainment factor (standing restarts, sprint races, social media etc), the absolute least they can do is not take away feel-good results from drivers post-race. Fines, or NASCAR-style punishments like having the strategist suspended for a race should be the way forward. Yes, this has the effect of making F1 like a motorised WWE, but honestly, F1 can ill-afford bad PR in the social media age.

With Vettel, the optics for F1 look even worse given his reprimand for the Pride T-shirt ("WeRaceAsOne", but not when it suits bigots"). This series loves to shoot itself in the foot.

It might not be popular, but if the rules are bent for one, it then raises the possibility that others will abuse that and seek to pressure those in charge to bend to them and the fans they can mobilise. Just as there might be those whom we might not want penalised, so too would such manipulation raise the risk of those who should be penalised being let off because of fears over the backlash from the fans and the political pressure those teams can apply.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
User avatar
Klon
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 7184
Joined: 28 Mar 2009, 17:07
Location: Schleswig-Holstein, FRG
Contact:

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Hungarian GP discussion!

Post by Klon »

mario wrote:It might not be popular, but if the rules are bent for one, it then raises the possibility that others will abuse that and seek to pressure those in charge to bend to them and the fans they can mobilise. Just as there might be those whom we might not want penalised, so too would such manipulation raise the risk of those who should be penalised being let off because of fears over the backlash from the fans and the political pressure those teams can apply.


That, however, would imply that such a thing is not happening already. Given the perpetually merciful punishments for various Mercedes and Verstappen misdemeanours throughout the years, it is fairly obvious that political/commercial considerations have been pretty much universally been a guideline for stewarding for all of recent F1 history.
User avatar
dinizintheoven
Posts: 3982
Joined: 09 Dec 2010, 01:24

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by dinizintheoven »

...and there goes Vettel's podium.

That's Alfa Romeo up to one point now... and Williams to ten!

...but which Williams is under investigation?
James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
User avatar
Londoner
Posts: 6423
Joined: 17 Jun 2010, 18:21
Location: Norwich, UK
Contact:

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Londoner »

dinizintheoven wrote:...and there goes Vettel's podium.

That's Alfa Romeo up to one point now... and Williams to ten!

...but which Williams is under investigation?


I think Latifi and Russell are safe now.



...and breathe out.
Fetzie on Ferrari wrote:How does a driver hurtling around a race track while they're sous-viding in their overalls have a better understanding of the race than a team of strategy engineers in an air-conditioned room?l
1993DonningtonNo1Mk2
Posts: 120
Joined: 24 Mar 2016, 22:37
Location: Stevenage, Hertfordshire, England
Contact:

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by 1993DonningtonNo1Mk2 »

Phew! Thank goodness! I was worried it might be Russell on the brink.
User avatar
Paul Hayes
Posts: 1101
Joined: 17 Apr 2009, 19:54

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Paul Hayes »

Wow, it must be a while since someone was disqualified for that?

Probably a good thing for F1 that he didn't get past Ocon, then!
User avatar
dinizintheoven
Posts: 3982
Joined: 09 Dec 2010, 01:24

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by dinizintheoven »

Lest we forget:

Image
James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
User avatar
takagi_for_the_win
Posts: 3054
Joined: 02 Oct 2011, 01:38
Location: The land of the little people.

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by takagi_for_the_win »

dinizintheoven wrote:Lest we forget:

Image

He’s done us all proud <3
TORA! TORA! TORA!
User avatar
Miguel98
Posts: 2450
Joined: 30 Mar 2014, 09:18
Location: Somewhere in Portugal

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Miguel98 »

Paul Hayes wrote:Wow, it must be a while since someone was disqualified for that?

Probably a good thing for F1 that he didn't get past Ocon, then!


I think the last disqualification was Ricciardo in 2014 for a somewhat similar infringement. But for the exact same infrigement, I think the last one must've been Hamilton losing pole position to Maldonado in the 2012 Spanish GP (which, IIRC, also triggered the rule change for the 1L clause)
Mario on Gutierrez after the Italian Grand Prix wrote:He's no longer just a bit of a tool, he's the entire tool set.


18-07-2015: Forever in our hearts Jules.
25-08-2015: Forever in our hearts Justin.
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8090
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Hungarian GP discussion!

Post by mario »

Klon wrote:
mario wrote:It might not be popular, but if the rules are bent for one, it then raises the possibility that others will abuse that and seek to pressure those in charge to bend to them and the fans they can mobilise. Just as there might be those whom we might not want penalised, so too would such manipulation raise the risk of those who should be penalised being let off because of fears over the backlash from the fans and the political pressure those teams can apply.


That, however, would imply that such a thing is not happening already. Given the perpetually merciful punishments for various Mercedes and Verstappen misdemeanours throughout the years, it is fairly obvious that political/commercial considerations have been pretty much universally been a guideline for stewarding for all of recent F1 history.

There are problems now, certainly, but I don't think it is quite as bad as it is sometimes suggested and certainly would not want to see a situation where it is made even worse.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
User avatar
Rob Dylan
Posts: 3475
Joined: 18 May 2014, 15:34
Location: Andy Warhol's basement

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Rob Dylan »

takagi_for_the_win wrote:
dinizintheoven wrote:Lest we forget:

Image

He’s done us all proud <3
This year we've had Ocon, 2016 Manor driver getting a win, AND Ericsson, proud 2014 Caterham runner winning a race in IndyCar! It's been a good day for the 2010 team drivers :)
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8090
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by mario »

On a wider note, despite the previous statements that they would wait until they had run all of the trial events to make a decision, Liberty Media are now announcing plans to increase the number of events which have a sprint race attached to them. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-p ... 2/6643084/

Not only are they announcing plans for more sprint races, Domenicali has also talked about plans for "a special format for certain historical grands prix, and certain special awards" for 2022 as well. The plan seems to be to try and grab the attention of young casual viewers in the USA, particularly the 18-49 demographic, whilst hoping that the gimmicks they use to attract that audience don't put off their wider international audience.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
User avatar
noiceinmydrink
Posts: 336
Joined: 30 Sep 2012, 15:40
Location: ziggurat

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by noiceinmydrink »

mario wrote:Not only are they announcing plans for more sprint races, Domenicali has also talked about plans for "a special format for certain historical grands prix, and certain special awards" for 2022 as well. The plan seems to be to try and grab the attention of young casual viewers in the USA, particularly the 18-49 demographic, whilst hoping that the gimmicks they use to attract that audience don't put off their wider international audience.


The good ol' 18-49, feels like I'm watching professional wrestling now.

I don't really mind the whole special awards thing or really anything that doesn't interfere with the Grand Prix itself (in fact I wouldn't mind the occassional qualifying sprint if they ditched parc-ferme), I remember there being talks of introducing regional cups for the F1 season but I really don't know what that would add.

Honestly all they really need to do is have those 2 US races, maybe 3 if you insist but above all just make the racing better lads, and watch the cash flood in.

Another thing I think they should do if they want to increase viewership is have more live events, like the one they had in London in 2019 and 2004 I think.
User avatar
RAK
Posts: 964
Joined: 30 May 2009, 16:35

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by RAK »

mario wrote:The plan seems to be to try and grab the attention of young casual viewers in the USA, particularly the 18-49 demographic, whilst hoping that the gimmicks they use to attract that audience don't put off their wider international audience.


I can tell you right now that it'll put off the international audience - American gimmickry has a habit of ruining perfectly good sports.
Predicament Predictions Champion, 2011, 2018, 2019

They weren't the world's most competent team,
In fact, to be believed, their results must be seen,
Lola,
M-Mastercard Lola,
L, O, L, A, Lola!
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8090
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by mario »

RAK wrote:
mario wrote:The plan seems to be to try and grab the attention of young casual viewers in the USA, particularly the 18-49 demographic, whilst hoping that the gimmicks they use to attract that audience don't put off their wider international audience.


I can tell you right now that it'll put off the international audience - American gimmickry has a habit of ruining perfectly good sports.

I guess there is the question of how well they understand that international audience, and whether they perhaps are making the mistake of thinking they will respond in the same way to the audience in the USA that they are probably most used to. You can see a logic in their plans, but it also sets the stage for it to backfire quite badly if they alienate their international audience whilst failing to create that audience in the USA they are craving.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8090
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by mario »

On a different note, it has been confirmed that the attempt to overturn Vettel's disqualification has failed. Whilst the team were acknowledged to have brought new evidence that explained why they was less fuel than required, it still meant the fuel tank held less than the minimum amount of fuel and thus the disqualification is upheld.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
User avatar
James1978
Posts: 3033
Joined: 26 Jul 2010, 18:46
Location: Darlington, NE England

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by James1978 »

While that is unfortunate for both Vettel and Aston Martin, it's more of a relief that Williams aren't losing nearly half their points - which would have put them more within striking distance for Alfa Romeo too.
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
User avatar
Rob Dylan
Posts: 3475
Joined: 18 May 2014, 15:34
Location: Andy Warhol's basement

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Rob Dylan »

James1978 wrote:While that is unfortunate for both Vettel and Aston Martin, it's more of a relief that Williams aren't losing nearly half their points - which would have put them more within striking distance for Alfa Romeo too.
For every cloud...
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
SammiRei
Posts: 34
Joined: 15 Mar 2021, 23:05

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by SammiRei »

I feel like George Russell gets himself an early IIODTR nomination for that qualifying effort.
User avatar
Rob Dylan
Posts: 3475
Joined: 18 May 2014, 15:34
Location: Andy Warhol's basement

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Rob Dylan »

Agreed, that might be the driving performance of the season. Absolutely incredible to be putting in those kinds of laps, CONSISTENTLY, in that Williams.
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
User avatar
Paul Hayes
Posts: 1101
Joined: 17 Apr 2009, 19:54

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread - Styrian GP discussion!

Post by Paul Hayes »

What an amazing qualifying performance from Russell! Mr Saturday strikes again!

It's difficult to understand - I know the rain is a great leveller, but that much of a leveller? There'll be a lot of head-scratching going on along the pitlane. Let's hope he can hold on for some points tomorrow. I'm very pleased for Williams, anyway.
Post Reply