2021 Discussion Thread

The place for speaking your mind on current goings-on in F1
User avatar
Paul Hayes
Posts: 1101
Joined: 17 Apr 2009, 19:54

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Paul Hayes »

All looking very nicely poised for tomorrow, especially with them being on the two different tyre compounds. Interesting that the "tail gunners" aren't right up there to help either of them, although given the gulf in class between these two and their team-mates it probably wouldn't have been that relevant if Bottas and Perez had been third and fourth anyway.

Fingers crossed that the track changes do at least help in some way, and we somehow get a vaguely interesting race tomorrow!
User avatar
dr-baker
Posts: 15430
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 17:30
Location: Here and there.

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by dr-baker »

So Nikita Mazepin has tested positive for the dreaded virus, and therefore there will be one less driver to be lapped by the championship protagonists.
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
User avatar
RAK
Posts: 964
Joined: 30 May 2009, 16:35

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by RAK »

Predicament Predictions Champion, 2011, 2018, 2019

They weren't the world's most competent team,
In fact, to be believed, their results must be seen,
Lola,
M-Mastercard Lola,
L, O, L, A, Lola!
User avatar
dr-baker
Posts: 15430
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 17:30
Location: Here and there.

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by dr-baker »

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
User avatar
Miguel98
Posts: 2450
Joined: 30 Mar 2014, 09:18
Location: Somewhere in Portugal

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Miguel98 »

The only thing I'll say while my head is still how is the following: what I saw today was one of the biggest frauds I can remember and I'm honestly 100% sure that CAS will overturn the championship. No ammount of Netflix money and Liberty influence will save from Masi breaking his own rules there. And yeah, Michael Masi needs to go, and I honestly can't even feel happy Max won - even if he deserved and, imo, he was the best driver all year long. But yeah, these last three races were so incredibly tiring that I clearly need a break from this crazy sport.
Mario on Gutierrez after the Italian Grand Prix wrote:He's no longer just a bit of a tool, he's the entire tool set.


18-07-2015: Forever in our hearts Jules.
25-08-2015: Forever in our hearts Justin.
User avatar
CoopsII
Posts: 4673
Joined: 15 Dec 2011, 09:33
Location: Starkiller Base Debris

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by CoopsII »

Well, obviously, as the supposed pinnacle of motorsport that was appalling. I’ve been to childrens Sports Days that were run better.

Maybe if you never stopped watching F1 you don’t notice what creeps in but coming in cold like me today I was amazed at how far standards of sportsmanship, management and just plain old organisation have slipped. Team principals badgering race control to get a decision their way, like a Soccer Dad at the side of the pitch shouting at the referee. Rules seemingly being made up on the spot like a child’s game where nobody really knows what’s going on. And on it goes.

The references I made to children isn’t by chance. F1 has dumbed down so much these days it’s incredible. The TV coverage even has to have faux-classical music playing all the time in case the attention span of the viewer wanders. Jeez.

So, to sum up, thanks but no thanks.
Just For One Day...
User avatar
Butterfox
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 6192
Joined: 30 Nov 2009, 19:45
Location: Stupid, sexy Flanders.

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Butterfox »

To answer shortly:
-I love drama
-I do not love incomprehensible decisions that have consequences.
The second seems to outweigh the first more and more. I'll be coming back though, but i'll treat it for what it is, a soap A great work of fiction.
I don't know what i want and i want it now!
User avatar
dr-baker
Posts: 15430
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 17:30
Location: Here and there.

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by dr-baker »

Image
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
User avatar
Paul Hayes
Posts: 1101
Joined: 17 Apr 2009, 19:54

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Paul Hayes »

I was working until 2pm, so had to go full No Hiding Place on this one, watching on delay when I got home, so I've only just finished watching.

Not that it all seems to be done and dusted yet.

Wow, blimey.

On the one hand, I respect the idea of getting some racing done and not wanting to finish under the safety car, so I agree with all that. I am glad that we got drama and a title fight down to the very end of the season, and I'm pleased that we - apparently - got a new world champion.

But on the other hand, I'm not sure Massi's likely to be in this job for terribly much longer, after the season he's had.
User avatar
dinizintheoven
Posts: 3983
Joined: 09 Dec 2010, 01:24

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by dinizintheoven »

Throughout this season, I've had plenty of opinions that I have kept to myself just because they would get me banned from this forum permanently - so long, thanks for the AGS articles, now never again befoul this place with your presence. And it's not that I'm in fundamental disagreement with the kind of opinions that usually constitute forum bans; it may be that I'm in agreement, but for the wrong reason. So I will not reveal anything to anyone who hasn't completely won my trust.

All I'll say is this: for the last couple of years, and probably longer, "conspiracy theory" has often been a synonym for "spoiler alert". And this is my "spoiler alert": everything about the ending of that race, and the way the championship was decided, looked to me not so much as gross incompetence, but as a stage-managed event to be filmed and sensationalised for Netflix. It's as if someone at Liberty Media said "hey, wouldn't it be great if we had our own controversial championship ending? Which one should we choose?" And after a lot of deliberation, and money changing hands, the bigwigs decided that it was a better idea to simulate Our "Is That Glock?" moment from 2008 rather than Our Prost-Senna collision à la 1989 or 1990.

I do not believe for a second that there was any perfidery going on in the 2008 finale, even with Bernie in charge. For this year, I can't park the nagging doubt that someone, somewhere, wanted Sir Lewis to experience exactly what Felipe Massa did in 2008.

And who was it who said "if Lewis wins his 8th title this year, he'll retire on the spot, just like Nico Rosberg did?" There's no better way to keep him in the circus than to have that 8th title snatched away at the last second so that he carries on until he's north of 40 if necessary, just to keep on going until he either wins that title or the writing is on the wall that he doesn't have it in him any more. And it's not as if 40-year-old Fernando Alonso is flagging, either.

Now Mercedes have lodged official protests, someone behind the scenes will be rubbing their hands with glee, wondering how much more cash they can milk from the extra post-season drama.

At least the season's over... for a mere 98 days.
James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
User avatar
Barbazza
Posts: 1636
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 19:30

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Barbazza »

dinizintheoven wrote:And who was it who said "if Lewis wins his 8th title this year, he'll retire on the spot, just like Nico Rosberg did?" There's no better way to keep him in the circus than to have that 8th title snatched away at the last second so that he carries on until he's north of 40 if necessary, just to keep on going until he either wins that title or the writing is on the wall that he doesn't have it in him any more. And it's not as if 40-year-old Fernando Alonso is flagging, either.


It was me who made the Lewis prediction. And your extrapolation of that is an extremely good point.

I've been very close to giving up F1 before, as those on this forum know. And as you may also be quite aware, I am by no means a Lewis Hamilton fanboy. However, I found Lewis's driving this season, not to mention his attitude and behaviour infinitely better than Max. So to see him robbed of the title by several baffling decisions (not just today) has made me unexpectedly angry.

So that's it then. This F1 viewer (1982 - 2021) says thanks but I'm done.
User avatar
dr-baker
Posts: 15430
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 17:30
Location: Here and there.

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by dr-baker »

I see where Jim (dinizintheoven) is coming from, and it is starting to feel as contrived as WWE. However, I feel like I have invested too much interest for too long to just give up on it now, even though I could focus more of my interest onto FE, BTCC and/or Indycar instead. Stockholm Syndrome?
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
User avatar
Row Man Gross-Gene
Posts: 756
Joined: 03 Jan 2010, 18:48
Location: Minnesota, USA
Contact:

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

I think it’s the sunk-cost fallacy.
It's just unbelievable...that Formula 1 could be such a ridiculous melange of idiots.

-Jamie McGregor

Check out my colo(u)ring pages website: http://sites.google.com/site/carcoloringpages/
User avatar
dr-baker
Posts: 15430
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 17:30
Location: Here and there.

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by dr-baker »

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:I think it’s the sunk-cost fallacy.

Yeah, something like that.
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
User avatar
DonTirri
Posts: 1177
Joined: 28 Apr 2009, 22:12
Location: Herttoniemi, Helsinki, Finland, Europe, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way.

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by DonTirri »

Oh Hey. This forum still exists!

Gonna pop in and say: Max deserved the title. Without stuff like Silverstone and Hungaroring the fight wouldn't have been close to begin with.

The era of Hamilton needed to end and it did.
I got Pointed Opinions and I ain't afraid to use em!
F1rejects no.1Räikkönen and Vettel fan.
BTW, thats Räikkönen with two K's and two N's. Not Raikonnen (Raikkonen is fine if you have no umlauts though)
User avatar
dr-baker
Posts: 15430
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 17:30
Location: Here and there.

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by dr-baker »

DonTirri wrote:Oh Hey. This forum still exists!

Oh hey. DonTirri still exists! Welcome back!

So Mercedes did two protests about FIA procedure that the FIA wrote and which they believe the FIA delegate did not enforce at an FIA event that ultimately decided an FIA championship. The FIA decided that the FIA delegate did no wrong at this FIA sanctioned event run by FIA rules and with an FIA complaints panel. Therefore the FIA believes that the FIA did nothing wrong and thus the FIA gets to keep the monies paid to lodge an appeal against the FIA, twice, without having to admit any wrongdoing because the FIA wrote the rulebook, the FIA implement the rulebook, and the FIA gets to decide if the FIA are following the FIA rules or not.
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
User avatar
Row Man Gross-Gene
Posts: 756
Joined: 03 Jan 2010, 18:48
Location: Minnesota, USA
Contact:

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

Everyone has to do what's right for them as far as what sports they want to watch and I respect all of those decisions. For my part, I hate to lose funny, intelligent, engaged voices in the F1 fandom, and you will be missed (and welcomed back if you leave and later decide to return).

I view the finish today as a colossal mistake, but nothing more. Incompetence is so much more likely the cause than any nefarious actions that some serious proving needs to be done before changing that stance.

Lastly, I honestly can't believe that F1 gets mentioned with WWE. For most of my life, F1 was about as staid as golf. Even now, F1 has only just begun to catch up with most mainstream sports. It's very disorienting to me and makes me question my sanity a little. That said, I'm a pretty naive and trusting person, maybe I've been gaslit by the sport into believing it is something that it's not.
It's just unbelievable...that Formula 1 could be such a ridiculous melange of idiots.

-Jamie McGregor

Check out my colo(u)ring pages website: http://sites.google.com/site/carcoloringpages/
User avatar
CoopsII
Posts: 4673
Joined: 15 Dec 2011, 09:33
Location: Starkiller Base Debris

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by CoopsII »

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:I view the finish today as a colossal mistake, but nothing more.

As Ron Dennis once said "In life, you have to pay for your mistakes" (he was referring to Mansell and the 1995 car) and I think F1 will end up suffering for this one. Not in Holland, mind you, subscriptions will no doubt go through the roof there and wherever there are Verstappen fans. So there's that.

Finally, on the day Raikkonen retired it's only fitting to see my old sparring partner DonTirri return. I hope he's well and still the biggest Helsinki Hellraiser there ever was. Kippis!
Just For One Day...
Alextrax52
Posts: 2944
Joined: 17 Apr 2013, 20:06
Location: Bromborough near Liverpool

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Alextrax52 »

On the whole Max deserved to be world champion. Without the tire explosion in Baku and the accidents in Silverstone and Hungary I don’t think this title fight would ever have reached Abu Dhabi. With a 8 point margin at least that means TeamLH can’t cry about the 5 points Max gained from the farce of Belgium anymore.

However the handling of the situation was clumsy. I expected a red flag and standing start procedure to happen and in hindsight that would have been the fairest way to end the race. The fact that I’ve seen some people saying that they would have preferred Max and Lewis to hit each other kinda says it all.
User avatar
Row Man Gross-Gene
Posts: 756
Joined: 03 Jan 2010, 18:48
Location: Minnesota, USA
Contact:

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

You're right Coops, I think there will be a price to pay in that sense, and maybe some careers ended too.

My guess is that now Kimi's retired, DonT will be very level-headed and calm when it comes to F1. ;) Joking aside, welcome back DonTirri.
It's just unbelievable...that Formula 1 could be such a ridiculous melange of idiots.

-Jamie McGregor

Check out my colo(u)ring pages website: http://sites.google.com/site/carcoloringpages/
User avatar
dr-baker
Posts: 15430
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 17:30
Location: Here and there.

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by dr-baker »

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:However the handling of the situation was clumsy. I expected a red flag and standing start procedure to happen and in hindsight that would have been the fairest way to end the race. The fact that I’ve seen some people saying that they would have preferred Max and Lewis to hit each other kinda says it all.

That would indeed have been fairer. Hindsight is 20:20.
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
User avatar
UncreativeUsername37
Posts: 3420
Joined: 25 May 2012, 14:36
Location: Earth

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

The two contenders going into the final race equal on points was supremely appropriate for this season. Then Mercedes and Hamilton were a little faster and it was pretty whatever. But then it came down to strategy, ooh, who'll call it right, how exciting... and Mercedes were better there too. So a bit of a dull finale, but Hamilton is the deserving

oh

i think i should pick another sport to be really hardcore into
Rob Dylan wrote:Mercedes paying homage to the other W12 chassis by breaking down 30 minutes in
IceG
Posts: 681
Joined: 06 Oct 2011, 17:24
Location: London (the one in England)

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by IceG »

dinizintheoven wrote:And who was it who said "if Lewis wins his 8th title this year, he'll retire on the spot, just like Nico Rosberg did?" There's no better way to keep him in the circus than to have that 8th title snatched away at the last second so that he carries on until he's north of 40 if necessary, just to keep on going until he either wins that title or the writing is on the wall that he doesn't have it in him any more. And it's not as if 40-year-old Fernando Alonso is flagging, either.


Hamilton retiring as an 8-times world champion had occurred to me too.

Had that happened, who would have got the Mercedes seat and how? I saw the body language between Wolff and Ocon at Saudi Arabia which, given the previous relationship with Mercedes, offers a clue. Or perhaps Alonso as a last gasp. Otherwise the only capable driver out there is probably Hulkenberg. Or am I underestimating Vandoorne?

But getting Ocon out of his Alpine contract would not have been cheap (remember Bottas from Williams). Would that money have come out of the cost-capped budget? Mercedes do not have strength in depth (i.e. a good replacement, immediately available should a lead driver be unable to compete for a season) at the moment, unlike nearly all the other teams.
User avatar
James1978
Posts: 3033
Joined: 26 Jul 2010, 18:46
Location: Darlington, NE England

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by James1978 »

The thought dawned on me myself, and the two names I came up with were Alonso (though he's hardly a long-term prospect, he'd be a stopgap big name till Russell gets enough front-running/title-contending experienced) and Vettel (You can't take away from the fact he's a 4-time WDC).

Getting Bottas back was probably a no-go as he's given his word to Alfa Romeo and besides he's not a lead driver anyway (It would be like McLaren having Jochen Mass as their spearhead for 1976 if they hadn't signed James Hunt - as I read was a consideration in one of the books about that season).

Otherwise it would be getting someone like Sainz/Norris/Ocon's contracts bought out.
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
IceG
Posts: 681
Joined: 06 Oct 2011, 17:24
Location: London (the one in England)

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by IceG »

What if the teams had run under their original names? The 2021 WCC results would be:

(1) Tyrell
(2) Stewart
(3) Ferrari
(4) McLaren
(5) Toleman
(6) Minardi
(7) Jordan
(8) Williams
(9) Sauber
(10) Haas

Any errors or corrections?
User avatar
Row Man Gross-Gene
Posts: 756
Joined: 03 Jan 2010, 18:48
Location: Minnesota, USA
Contact:

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

IceG wrote:What if the teams had run under their original names? The 2021 WCC results would be:

(1) Tyrell
(2) Stewart
(3) Ferrari
(4) McLaren
(5) Toleman
(6) Minardi
(7) Jordan
(8) Williams
(9) Sauber
(10) Haas

Any errors or corrections?



It seems pretty accurate, though I've listened to an interview with some Mercedes people who kind of discounted the "Tyrrell-ness" of the team. If I remember correctly they said/implied that the Tyrrell connection was just the Reynard outfit buying up the assets of Tyrrell more so than taking over the team. Thing is I'm pretty sure none of them predated the BAR team. That might be a good idea for an investigation (or maybe it's already been done). Certainly I can be way off though, but it was a cool exercise to look at it this way.
It's just unbelievable...that Formula 1 could be such a ridiculous melange of idiots.

-Jamie McGregor

Check out my colo(u)ring pages website: http://sites.google.com/site/carcoloringpages/
User avatar
Row Man Gross-Gene
Posts: 756
Joined: 03 Jan 2010, 18:48
Location: Minnesota, USA
Contact:

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

I was kind of hoping for a Verstappen championship in order to keep Hamilton from retiring yet because I wanted to see him in the next car, sort of as a form of continuity and to see what he could do with it and for a benchmark purpose. Though once he signed for two more years that thought kind of fell by the wayside. (I realize he could have still retired even after the contract, but I didn't really think about it much afterward.)

In my opinion, Lewis is now the greatest ever. Before 2020 that would have been Jim Clark to my mind, but Lewis has been so good for so long and so clean like Clark was. I think Clark was Lewis' natural antecedent, much more so than Schumacher or Senna, at least as far as on-track style. I realize that Lewis has had some uncompromising racing situations over the years, especially with Nico, but they were far fewer and further between than anyone else who has raced in the last 2-3 decades.
It's just unbelievable...that Formula 1 could be such a ridiculous melange of idiots.

-Jamie McGregor

Check out my colo(u)ring pages website: http://sites.google.com/site/carcoloringpages/
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8091
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by mario »

CoopsII wrote:
Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:I view the finish today as a colossal mistake, but nothing more.

As Ron Dennis once said "In life, you have to pay for your mistakes" (he was referring to Mansell and the 1995 car) and I think F1 will end up suffering for this one. Not in Holland, mind you, subscriptions will no doubt go through the roof there and wherever there are Verstappen fans. So there's that.

Finally, on the day Raikkonen retired it's only fitting to see my old sparring partner DonTirri return. I hope he's well and still the biggest Helsinki Hellraiser there ever was. Kippis!

I would agree that, whilst there might be those thinking "there's no such thing as bad publicity", it's unlikely to be good for the long term health of the sport.

Amongst the midfield runners, it is clear that there are several who are pretty frustrated or angry at what happened. Several of them have pointed out that Masi's decisions to only allow some drivers to unlap themselves screwed their races up royally - Sainz was pretty furious over the radio, Ricciardo was utterly stunned and described the scenario as screwed up (but in somewhat stronger terms), Vettel and Alonso were similarly confused and Stroll was utterly livid about the scenario. Norris, meanwhile, condemned the way in which the whole situation was manipulated for the TV broadcast and was not acceptable.

It seems to have stirred up considerable anger amongst the drivers amid a sense that there is clear favouritism going on amongst the stewards - it was a grievance that was already developing back in Brazil, but it is really festering now.

Meanwhile, it seems that Masi's behaviour during that race, and in particular the way he brushed off Wolff's complaints, has outraged and disgusted quite a few team bosses who have been increasingly concerned about what they see as Masi's erratic behaviour and refusal to listen to criticism.

Both of the above factors don't seem to bode well, as it is rapidly eroding confidence in both the competence and neutrality of race control that is going to take a long time to restore - if it can ever be restored.

Asides from that, I wonder what it is going to do for prospects of anybody wanting to enter a new team. There have been reports that the sport had been courting the VW Group quite heavily over the past year, particularly as there did seem to be interest from them in the 2026 regulation package - but I would imagine that recent events have damaged those prospects now, as I would imagine the last thing they'd want is to be dragged into potential controversy.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
User avatar
Barbazza
Posts: 1636
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 19:30

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Barbazza »

IceG wrote:Hamilton retiring as an 8-times world champion had occurred to me too.

Had that happened, who would have got the Mercedes seat and how? I saw the body language between Wolff and Ocon at Saudi Arabia which, given the previous relationship with Mercedes, offers a clue. Or perhaps Alonso as a last gasp. Otherwise the only capable driver out there is probably Hulkenberg. Or am I underestimating Vandoorne?

But getting Ocon out of his Alpine contract would not have been cheap (remember Bottas from Williams). Would that money have come out of the cost-capped budget? Mercedes do not have strength in depth (i.e. a good replacement, immediately available should a lead driver be unable to compete for a season) at the moment, unlike nearly all the other teams.


At the time I posted my theory I didn't really give much thought to who would replace Lewis if he did walk. Then at the weekend I did give it some thought and came up with the following, in order of likelihood 1) Ocon 2) Hulkenberg 3) Vettel. So great minds do think alike!

It's very thoughtful of you to consider how forum members might be missed, Row Man, but while at the moment I am as likely to return to watching F1 as a Monteverdi driveshaft is to be the right way around, I will still be commenting in other sections - where else can I find people who appreciate the beauty in a 91 Lambo or indeed Fab's hair?
User avatar
Row Man Gross-Gene
Posts: 756
Joined: 03 Jan 2010, 18:48
Location: Minnesota, USA
Contact:

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

Mario, If Masi has lost the confidence of the people in the teams, the FIA needs to reassign or fire him. That would be the case even if he had never made a mistake (though he clearly has). It's also clear the rulebook needs to be amended now to address the situation from sunday more explicitly.

You mention about Volkswagen perhaps not wanting to come in because of controversy, maybe so, but frankly VAG probably is a bigger drain on F1 with their dieselgate crimes than F1 would be on them. Nevertheless, I take your meaning.
It's just unbelievable...that Formula 1 could be such a ridiculous melange of idiots.

-Jamie McGregor

Check out my colo(u)ring pages website: http://sites.google.com/site/carcoloringpages/
User avatar
CoopsII
Posts: 4673
Joined: 15 Dec 2011, 09:33
Location: Starkiller Base Debris

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by CoopsII »

I reckon Masi will take the hit for all this but I expect him to be reassigned elsewhere, the last thing the FIA needs right now is a disgruntled ex-race director venting about the intricacies of what went on behind closed doors. (Would he have signed an NDA? Would anybody have expected one to be necessary?)

But I am surprised that his comments to Wolff about 'I'm trying to run a race here, dickhead' or whatever it was have received such criticism. Not only was that exactly what he should have been saying all season long but I'd imagine it was a lot milder than the communications were like Back In The Day (admittedly, they were never broadcast live, of course).

By the way you regular SKY F1 viewers, what the hell has happened to Ted Kravitz? I remember him being a fairly beige pit lane reporter, calm, steady and reasonably informative. On Sunday, and perhaps it was just Sunday, he was a screaming maniac, several octaves higher than normal, suggesting imminent tyre issues where there were none and generally being an annoying twat.
Just For One Day...
User avatar
mario
Posts: 8091
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 17:13

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by mario »

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:Mario, If Masi has lost the confidence of the people in the teams, the FIA needs to reassign or fire him. That would be the case even if he had never made a mistake (though he clearly has). It's also clear the rulebook needs to be amended now to address the situation from sunday more explicitly.

You mention about Volkswagen perhaps not wanting to come in because of controversy, maybe so, but frankly VAG probably is a bigger drain on F1 with their dieselgate crimes than F1 would be on them. Nevertheless, I take your meaning.

Palmer has mentioned in his latest column for the BBC that "at least half the F1 teams have lost confidence in race director Michael Masi, and that many of the drivers have concerns as well.".

It's a rather bleak assessment of his position, but that article does note that there are signs that the FIA is finally getting round to appointing somebody to take over the part of Whiting's role that involved the FIA's administration of Formula 1 - Peter Bayer apparently being appointed to that new role - which would bring Masi under his management.

I don't know if the FIA would be prepared to get rid of Masi though - whilst he might be a potentially useful fall guy, I could also see the FIA basically not being prepared to accept any blame and leave him in the post (although a few private words might be said to him to perhaps tone things down a bit).

Liberty Media might also not be keen on seeing him go, given that he has put a rather stronger emphasis on "the show" amid suggestions that Liberty Media has been able to exert a lot more influence on him than they could with people like Whiting. I suspect it will depend more on whether Liberty Media thinks that having a more pliable figure is worth the potential short to medium term public backlash that there might be.

As for VW, I brought them up specifically because the sport has reportedly been courting them pretty heavily for at least the past 12 months, if not more. Mind you, it's probably symptomatic of the attitude that a number of OEMs might have towards the sport, which is likely to be rather less enthusiastic about getting involved now.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
User avatar
Barbazza
Posts: 1636
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 19:30

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Barbazza »

CoopsII wrote:By the way you regular SKY F1 viewers, what the hell has happened to Ted Kravitz? I remember him being a fairly beige pit lane reporter, calm, steady and reasonably informative. On Sunday, and perhaps it was just Sunday, he was a screaming maniac, several octaves higher than normal, suggesting imminent tyre issues where there were none and generally being an annoying twat.


This is not an unusual occurrence sadly. The Sky F1 'lowest common denomimator / worship Red Bull' culture has sadly even begun to affect Martin Brundle, who was the last remaining voice of reason.
User avatar
Rob Dylan
Posts: 3477
Joined: 18 May 2014, 15:34
Location: Andy Warhol's basement

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

I've seen almost all the races live this year, except Saudi and Abu Dhabi. For the sake of my sanity I am very glad that I missed them both and got to attempt to work out the proceedings in the aftermath.

Klon and I have already since recorded our end-of-year podcast and I'll get to processing that ASAP :deletraz:
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
User avatar
Row Man Gross-Gene
Posts: 756
Joined: 03 Jan 2010, 18:48
Location: Minnesota, USA
Contact:

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

Barbazza wrote:
CoopsII wrote:By the way you regular SKY F1 viewers, what the hell has happened to Ted Kravitz? I remember him being a fairly beige pit lane reporter, calm, steady and reasonably informative. On Sunday, and perhaps it was just Sunday, he was a screaming maniac, several octaves higher than normal, suggesting imminent tyre issues where there were none and generally being an annoying twat.


This is not an unusual occurrence sadly. The Sky F1 'lowest common denomimator / worship Red Bull' culture has sadly even begun to affect Martin Brundle, who was the last remaining voice of reason.


There may be some of that happening Barbazza, but also try to keep in mind that as broadcasters, their real bias is toward excitement. If we think back over the last several years, no team other than Mercedes had any chance at the titles, but what they want is a close battle for the titles, so as soon as another team was competitive, they were always going to be very happy about that, and that probably adds to the appearance of Red Bull partisanship.

Additionally, there's the fact that they interview Horner during the broadcast which isn't really a good look. I guarantee you they invited Toto Wolf (and every other principal over the course of the season) to do interviews during the broadcast, but Wolf clearly turned them down. It feels unnecessary and useless to me to interview a team principal during the race, they're not going to give Sky anything good in that circumstance, and it only adds further to the appearance of partisanship. It is possible there is some favoritism, but in a broadcast situation, I feel it's more likely that it's simply them favoring excitement, and this season the excitement was brought by Red Bull's challenge of Mercedes for the championships. I believe that if McLaren had brought the challenge, everything we heard about RB and Max would have been replaced by McLaren and Lando.
It's just unbelievable...that Formula 1 could be such a ridiculous melange of idiots.

-Jamie McGregor

Check out my colo(u)ring pages website: http://sites.google.com/site/carcoloringpages/
User avatar
Row Man Gross-Gene
Posts: 756
Joined: 03 Jan 2010, 18:48
Location: Minnesota, USA
Contact:

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

I'd really like to get everyone's input on the race ending and what should be done in future. As the rules are currently written, it seems that there were 3 options once Latifi crashed.

1. Finish the race under the safety car
2. Restart with lapped cars in place (i.e. the five cars between Max and Lewis)
3. Red flag the race and restart so there were a few laps left and everyone got the opportunity to change tires etc.

The consensus on the forum seems to be that what had happened was not allowed the way the rules are currently written. So two questions I'd like answered.

1. Which of the three options should have been done on Sunday?

2. In future, which of the three (or some new option you come up with) should be done in a similar situation?
It's just unbelievable...that Formula 1 could be such a ridiculous melange of idiots.

-Jamie McGregor

Check out my colo(u)ring pages website: http://sites.google.com/site/carcoloringpages/
User avatar
takagi_for_the_win
Posts: 3054
Joined: 02 Oct 2011, 01:38
Location: The land of the little people.

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by takagi_for_the_win »

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:I'd really like to get everyone's input on the race ending and what should be done in future. As the rules are currently written, it seems that there were 3 options once Latifi crashed.

1. Finish the race under the safety car
2. Restart with lapped cars in place (i.e. the five cars between Max and Lewis)
3. Red flag the race and restart so there were a few laps left and everyone got the opportunity to change tires etc.

The consensus on the forum seems to be that what had happened was not allowed the way the rules are currently written. So two questions I'd like answered.

1. Which of the three options should have been done on Sunday?

2. In future, which of the three (or some new option you come up with) should be done in a similar situation?


I'm not a huge fan of the red flag suggestion bandied about, as Latifi's crash simply didn't warrant a red flag in my eyes. No need to artificially go throwing red flags to "spice up the show" or whatever, just stick to the regulations.

That leaves us with either of the safety car options, which I'm more than happy with given that they're the two options that would've occurred had the regulations been applied correctly. Personally I think restarting at the end of lap 57 with lapped traffic would have been pretty fun - the most aggressive racer in the sport given a lap to pass a few lapped cars before hunting down Hamilton, while having a massive tyre advantage, would possibly have led to a genuinely tense final lap with Hamilton trying to open a gap before Verstappen cleared the traffic and then trying to hold on once Verstappen was in clear air.

For future incidents, I'm more than happy to stick with the safety car finishes. Don't give a bathplug about it "spoiling the ending" or whatever, chances are most races are fairly wrapped up by that point anyway and if anyone is of the opinion that the last three laps of a 2 hour long race being neutralised counteract the first 50+ laps in terms of excitement then I'd argue they're watching the wrong sport.
TORA! TORA! TORA!
User avatar
Rob Dylan
Posts: 3477
Joined: 18 May 2014, 15:34
Location: Andy Warhol's basement

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

^^I'm very much of the same mindset. Finish it under safety car. At the very least, that's the safest option, and at the most it's actually following the rules of the sport.
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
TheBigJ
Posts: 348
Joined: 26 Aug 2011, 08:05

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by TheBigJ »

I've logged in after a couple of years because I wanted to vote for Michael Masi as ROTR and eventual ROTY. Even though he is not actually befitting of the Reject title even.

Whilst I am here I would also say that the above is indeed the way someone concerned with safety and protocol would have ended the race. No question that Masi let the occasion, Liberty Media's constant desire for an end to processional Safety Car endings and the Red Bull barracking in his ear. In any other circumstance, he starts letting cars unlapping themselves or he simply finishes the race under SC.

The thing is though, what is the most unprofessional and outright illegal about it was not the ad hoc decision making, but the way the decision to not allow cars to unlap themselves was made a minute before and then immediately revoked giving Hamilton almost no time to anticipate and honestly creating a dangerous situation. Drivers were basically communicated they were going racing again far too late and far too soon after being told to ease off.

Also, regarding Sky bias, it may be because I'm used to watching both Ziggo and Sky but Ziggo in the NL are far more biased and unprofessional in that matter, and honestly many seem to think Sky have bias for Hamilton more than anything. I miss the BBC coverage but I don't think Sky are awful in terms of bias.
User avatar
Row Man Gross-Gene
Posts: 756
Joined: 03 Jan 2010, 18:48
Location: Minnesota, USA
Contact:

Re: 2021 Discussion Thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

I'm a little surprised with the general comfort with the idea of finishing behind the safety car. In comment sections elsewhere, virtually nobody is in favor of finishing behind a safety car. I'm curious to hear more opinions, both for what should have been done and for what should be done in the future.
It's just unbelievable...that Formula 1 could be such a ridiculous melange of idiots.

-Jamie McGregor

Check out my colo(u)ring pages website: http://sites.google.com/site/carcoloringpages/
Post Reply