Grand Prix Rejects

If this is representative of 2021, then wow.

And hey, maybe this race'll finally get them to make up their mind on track limits

Apparently, according to Marcin Budkowski of Alpine, Alonso's overheating problems were causing by....
a sandwich wrapper getting itself caught in his brake ducts...
That's hopefully one thing they won't have to worry about at circuits where they aren't any fans unless the drivers start munching as they go round

MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx wrote:Apparently, according to Marcin Budkowski of Alpine, Alonso's overheating problems were causing by....
a sandwich wrapper getting itself caught in his brake ducts...
That's hopefully one thing they won't have to worry about at circuits where they aren't any fans unless the drivers start munching as they go round

As an aside, there are reports that the Portuguese and Spanish races might have spectators - the Portuguese GP looks less certain though, as there are suggestions that the government is unwilling due to the circuit owners doing an atrocious job last year (the circuit and many grandstands being overcrowded, with circuit staff either largely absent or utterly incompetent at managing the crowds - sometimes even causing major overcrowding problems in the stands).

"Wolff: Nobody foresaw hostility between Hamilton and Rosberg"
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff-nobody-foresaw-hostility-between-hamilton-and-rosberg/6095269/



Dude, there was hostility between the two of them in their second race as teammates, what was it you missed

Rob Dylan wrote:"Wolff: Nobody foresaw hostility between Hamilton and Rosberg"
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff-nobody-foresaw-hostility-between-hamilton-and-rosberg/6095269/



Dude, there was hostility between the two of them in their second race as teammates, what was it you missed

To be fair, it looks like Wolff was referring to Mercedes not anticipating the degree of hostility that occurred between Hamilton and Rosberg when they decided to hire Hamilton back in 2012 (i.e. it looks like the headline is presenting that quote slightly out of context, as he was referring to a decision made before he joined Mercedes).

It was also implied in what I read that there was unforeseen hostility between them prior to them being in F1.

I posted it up mostly because I find the entire conversation irrelevant. They're fighting each other for a title, of course there's going to be hostility.

It's the exact kind of clickbait an idiot like myself would engage with directly and start complaining about on internet forums!

Considering Hamilton/Rosberg relations this is quite funny video, showing three different things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIcVDqa ... l=FORMULA1

Australia 2008 - Happy with each other, Rosberg achieving his first podium
Abu Dhabi 2014 - Respect all around
United States 2015 - Throwing the caps

Hulkenberg joins Aston Martin F1 as reserve driver

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hulk ... r/6149677/

Aston team principal and CEO Otmar Szafnauer added: “...Nico proved last year that he could jump in the car and perform superbly at a moment’s notice..."

So (i) when Vettel gets banned due to penalty points totting up, (ii) when he gets banned for ramming Mazepin after being brake-tested during a safety car period*, or (iii) when he finally realises his career is behind him and he walks off in a sulk.

* obviously this is satire as no former world champion would ever do anything so stupid or unprofessional

In the meantime, it seems that the sport has been pushing forward with the sprint races - or "sprint qualifying" as Liberty Media wants it to be called - and is getting close to finalising the modifications to the regulations and the financial terms that will be offered to the teams. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... 021-season

There are signs that the teams will be given an extra $500,000 in prize money for those sprint races, with the budget cap also raised by $500,000, to pay for the additional expenses of those races. It is indicated that, if the car is damaged in those sprint races, the teams can then apply to Liberty Media for additional payments to pay for the repairs - there are also reports that the teams will be allowed to request a free gearbox and/or power unit change if they are heavily damaged during the sprint races, which perhaps could be a little more contentious.

There are still some issues with tyre allocations and DRS usage that are yet to be resolved - there are suggestions that DRS usage will now be permitted within 2 seconds of the car in front, rather than 1 second, to boost the amount of overtaking, although the revisions to the tyre allocation are not yet known.

There are some interesting anecdotal comments from an individual on the Racefans site who is connected with FOM about what Liberty Media will consider a successful trial - I think it is worth quoting here:

There were questions on here some weeks ago regarding what the definition of success/failure would be that would see the idea continue forward or be dropped.

I’ve been told the definition of success will be TV ratings & trackside spectator engagement. The actual impact on the track action will be a secondary consideration with the affect been moved to Friday will have on the ratings/attendance for the usual qualifying session been seen as even less important.

If there is a bump in TV ratings and/or Saturday attendance then it will be a format that will become a more permanent feature going forward with the idea been to gradually phase the format in for use at every round within the next few seasons.

I gather they intend to have a totally new weekend format in place for 2025 & that even if the 3 race trial this year is deemed to have not worked they will likely trial tweaks to the sprint race format in 2022/23/24 until they have something that they believe will work for use from 2025.

It's going to be interesting to see how it all turns out in the end. More racing, sure, but it brings up many questions of how points and prizes are handed out, and whether or not these "controlled costs" will in fact just spiral out of control yet again. More racing, sure, but does this mean that instead of the saturated 23 races a year, we're now going to have 46 every year? Will the fans accept this?

The thing is, I wish this wasn't a test for a rollout: I think this idea works best with variety. If they're going to go ahead with short races, make them Non-Championship, encourage the teams to test out other drivers than the ones they have. There's all sorts of positive potential which is going to turn into another bottomless pit of spending, I'm afraid.

But let's hope I'm wrong!

FIA hints at announcement about hydrogen in motorsport
https://www.motorsport.com/general/news/fia-hints-at-hydrogen-announcement/6219968/

Never thought I'd say this, but Alt-F1 did it first?

Sounds on one hand like they're throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks, but on the other hand they say there will be an announcement very soon on the FiA's decision-making regarding this. So let's see I guess.

Rob Dylan wrote:FIA hints at announcement about hydrogen in motorsport
https://www.motorsport.com/general/news/fia-hints-at-hydrogen-announcement/6219968/

Never thought I'd say this, but Alt-F1 did it first?

Sounds on one hand like they're throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks, but on the other hand they say there will be an announcement very soon on the FiA's decision-making regarding this. So let's see I guess.

Maybe, but I suspect the more likely scenario will be further news on the ACO's plans for a hydrogen fuelled class in the WEC, perhaps indicating that they've come to a decision on the proposed 2024 rule set.

Rob Dylan wrote:FIA hints at announcement about hydrogen in motorsport
https://www.motorsport.com/general/news/fia-hints-at-hydrogen-announcement/6219968/

Never thought I'd say this, but Alt-F1 did it first?

Sounds on one hand like they're throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks, but on the other hand they say there will be an announcement very soon on the FiA's decision-making regarding this. So let's see I guess.

Not the first idea, this forum also had women-only series before W Series was founded!

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/di-resta-on-standby-as-mclaren-f1-reserve/6290600/
"Tonight on Motorsport news, is di Resta about to make a dramatic comeback in Formula 1 very soon!?

We have the answer: it's no. Tune in later, where we'll be back at the same time on the hour every hour with more news."

I never minded PdR, always thought he got a lot more stick on here than he deserved. He was never going to be the next Senna but he was a quietly tidy driver, staple of the midfield type of person - never deserved the pelters he got on here in my eyes.

takagi_for_the_win wrote:I never minded PdR, always thought he got a lot more stick on here than he deserved. He was never going to be the next Senna but he was a quietly tidy driver, staple of the midfield type of person - never deserved the pelters he got on here in my eyes.

No of course, looking back he was a perfectly dependable midfielder, especially when comparing to some who have been given the same job and couldn't even manage that naming no names.

Not that other drivers have much personality, but Paul is both Scottish and boring, which is a double-whammy of Andy Murray-ness where I'm from therefore it's an easy target for silly jokes.

Sprint races are essentially confirmed for three venues this year:

https://the-race.com/formula-1/f1-sprint-races-get-green-light-full-format-details-revealed/

It's interesting, but I have a feeling this concept will be dropped by the end of the season once everyone realises it doesn't exactly any of the problems within F1.

IS COLTON HERTA COMING TO F1?

We have the answer in now: it's a maybe everyone

Super Mario Andretti is looking to get him in a "top seat" in F1 because apparently that's been Colton's idea since the beginning. Also he wants to push Herta with the whole "America having two races" thing next year. Let's see if this is just silly season rumours though.

My favourite quote is this: “I think America is probably the only country on the planet that can really properly host two Formula 1 races”

Sorry Mario, but Italy showed it was perfectly capable of running three races last year at different circuits at basically no notice the US didn't even have one race ten years ago...

Meanwhile, the rumours that had been circulating around the Canadian GP being replaced due to the current restrictions on overseas travellers have now been proven correct. With the Canadian government not providing a waiver for F1 personnel from the minimum 14 days in quarantine, the plan is for Turkey to take over that spot. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/cana ... p/6494667/

Rob Dylan wrote:It's going to be interesting to see how it all turns out in the end. More racing, sure, but it brings up many questions of how points and prizes are handed out, and whether or not these "controlled costs" will in fact just spiral out of control yet again. More racing, sure, but does this mean that instead of the saturated 23 races a year, we're now going to have 46 every year? Will the fans accept this?

The thing is, I wish this wasn't a test for a rollout: I think this idea works best with variety. If they're going to go ahead with short races, make them Non-Championship, encourage the teams to test out other drivers than the ones they have. There's all sorts of positive potential which is going to turn into another bottomless pit of spending, I'm afraid.

But let's hope I'm wrong!

It might be very difficult commercially but I feel that we really need to have non-championship Formula 1 events in the calendar , just so we can test out ideas and also so we get to see more of the drivers taking on different challenges.

I'd be absolutely up for reverse grids. I'd absolutely be up for sprint races. Just have the results not counting towards any championship - although get a sponsor to pony up a cash prize or charity donation perhaps?

On a tangent

Imagine if they brought back the Nurburgring Race of Champions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_N%C3 ... _Champions) - get all the current drivers in equally specced Aston Martins , give them radios to each other so they can banter , have them race on Fridays instead of one of the free practice sessions . People would love that.

Francophone wrote:It might be very difficult commercially but I feel that we really need to have non-championship Formula 1 events in the calendar .

I agree with this because I think it'll be the junior drivers that'll be fielded. Hamilton, Verstappen etc won't want to risk an injury/won't see the point if there's no points. But as you suggest from a commercial point of view it could be a hard sell when these new F1 fans they seem to want to attract don't know who the up-and-coming drivers are. Obviously, it would be a good place for them to learn but have they the attention span? Do they care?

CoopsII wrote:

Francophone wrote:It might be very difficult commercially but I feel that we really need to have non-championship Formula 1 events in the calendar .

I agree with this because I think it'll be the junior drivers that'll be fielded. Hamilton, Verstappen etc won't want to risk an injury/won't see the point if there's no points. But as you suggest from a commercial point of view it could be a hard sell when these new F1 fans they seem to want to attract don't know who the up-and-coming drivers are. Obviously, it would be a good place for them to learn but have they the attention span? Do they care?

Only the hardcore will care about something if it's outside of the championship. My elitist hipster mind would love to say that casuals see individual races and hardcore fans see a championship, but the fact is a decided championship battle reliably results in a drop in television ratings. And though it's one data point, when I told someone who wasn't a fan about the possibility of a race in New Jersey, us living in New England at the time, their first question was "is it an exhibition race".

UncreativeUsername37 wrote:

CoopsII wrote:

Francophone wrote:It might be very difficult commercially but I feel that we really need to have non-championship Formula 1 events in the calendar .

I agree with this because I think it'll be the junior drivers that'll be fielded. Hamilton, Verstappen etc won't want to risk an injury/won't see the point if there's no points. But as you suggest from a commercial point of view it could be a hard sell when these new F1 fans they seem to want to attract don't know who the up-and-coming drivers are. Obviously, it would be a good place for them to learn but have they the attention span? Do they care?

Only the hardcore will care about something if it's outside of the championship. My elitist hipster mind would love to say that casuals see individual races and hardcore fans see a championship, but the fact is a decided championship battle reliably results in a drop in television ratings. And though it's one data point, when I told someone who wasn't a fan about the possibility of a race in New Jersey, us living in New England at the time, their first question was "is it an exhibition race".

@CoopsII - I'd not thought about that angle - having junior drivers involved would be very interesting indeed and add another dimension - as George Russell getting to show what he could do in a decent car (finally) showed in Sakhir last year.

I heard somewhere (can't remember) that Charles Leclerc wanted to drive in the recent historic Monaco GP but Ferrari over-ruled him. Real shame - I suppose with the amount of money on the line teams would be reluctant.

@UncreativeUsername37 - Fair enough - but I'd still suggest that there should be prizes and trophies for one-off races , for example the Race of Champions which usually happens gets quite a bit of interest despite being a total one-off. I'd have thought the spectacle of F1 would be enough of a draw even if the format was diffferent (i.e reverse grids , elimination , sprint races).

A slight tangent on that note - why don't they make the Monaco GP 92 laps (307.004km) and have a 3 hour (instead of 2 hour) time limit? Cars now are fast enough , and it would allow more time for strategy to play out (although Danny Ric would not appreciate me doing this )

MONTOYA'S SON TO F1?

We have the answer: maybe in five years

Wait wait wait, there's pictures coming in


He has a contract for next year, people!

Hamilton reaching 100 poles is mighty impressive, though that end of Q3 was a bit of a shambles.

Mazepin warrants himself another 3 place grid drop for impeding Norris in Q1. This drops him from 20th to...20th.

Miguel98 wrote:Hamilton reaching 100 poles is mighty impressive, though that end of Q3 was a bit of a shambles.

Mazepin warrants himself another 3 place grid drop for impeding Norris in Q1. This drops him from 20th to...20th.

It's a bit odd, as it's the second race in a row where the Q1 runs decided a significant portion of the positions - it does make you wonder what both Norris and Perez might have done if they'd been able to set a competitive time on their first flying laps. Speaking of Perez, it sounds as if he is carrying some sort of shoulder injury, which might explain some of the deficit he has had to Verstappen.

I have to say that I found Tsunoda disappointed a bit - Alpha Tauri as a whole could have done better, but not only was Tsunoda rather ragged during qualifying, his comments afterwards (seeming to suggest Gasly had a different car) were rather hot headed (though he did later withdraw them).

Mercedes can pull a fun strategy on Red Bull because their second driver is actually where he should be. Same old thing, you can say, but the margin of victory was much closer than previous years. Bahrain, Algarve, and Catalunya have given us the kind of tension we've been missing for quite a while now.

And almost as quickly as it appeared on the calendar, the Turkish GP has vanished from it again - with Turkey being shifted onto the UK government's red list for travel on the 12th, the decision has been made to cancel the race and to replace it with a second round in Austria.

It also means the calendar is going to be shifted around a bit, as the French GP is moving to the 20th June to create room for the Styrian GP (as the second race in Austria will be called) on the 4th July. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/aust ... n/6508479/

Asides from the problems that it looks set to cause Paul Ricard, the plans Mercedes had made for Grosjean's demo run in front of the crowds at the French GP have also been scrapped - the revised date for the French GP now clashes with the IndyCar race at Road America.

It's very doubly confusing that both MotoGP and F1 announced Austrian double-headers on the same day within hours of one another. Kymiring is cancelled in Finland and Istanbul is cancelled in Turkey. However, the phrase "postponed" shows that there is some (vain) hope the Turkish round will be resurrected by the end of the year should another track drop out...

MotorSport.com opening up the can of worms that is the pay-tv debate again.

Their article is largely sympathetic towards pay-tv, though I agree with most of the commenters here that the loss of casual fans will have a massive long-term impact on the sport that Drive to Survive can only stem slightly. A focus on premium profits and easy social media interest is being confused for a growth in international interest.

Not to get political, but I remember in the UK the Labour Party absolutely dominated all the social media posts and followers in the run-up to the last few elections, but social media doesn't equate to real life just because graphs say it does. I'm worried F1 is going to slip down the same hole in believing the PR crap saying that "funny twitter accounts will bring in the fans that are needed to pay a monthly fee for Sky". I just don't see those two worlds colliding at all, and I see a long-term decline in viewers while a few fat-cats rake in the dosh.

For example, the F1 viewing community has dropped from 600 million to 433 between 2008 and 2020. And no casual follower on Twitter is going to get Sky Sports to plug that number gap, I'm sorry.

^ Reminds me of an interesting article I read about The Walking Dead some time back. Since it's beginning the amount of viewers has steadily decreased until it's significantly lower than ever. However, those viewers that are still watching are in the valuable market they want (late 20s to late 30s, I think) so the show continues quite happily with it's advertisers very content that their products are being viewed by exactly who they want to view them.

Ugh, don't remind me about The Walking Dead. It's made its way incongruously into a number of other products through crossovers that don't fit.

Anyway, on a more Formula One note, looks like a challenging race for Hamilton for once. Peculiar last-minute crash for Leclerc; it'll be interesting to see how quickly the Ferrari mechanics can get the car back in order. Verstappen probably the biggest loser from that, but he'll likely have the bit between his teeth tomorrow, so this could be an exciting race with some of the usual suspects out of order.

RAK wrote:this could be an exciting race with some of the usual suspects out of order

Too bad all of the suspects went out of order

What an exciting, engaging, unpredictable qualifying session!

I just hope that, unlike the previous race, it doesn't once again turn out to be the best part of the weekend.

I am getting mightily sick of Sky F1's obession with Red Bull in general and Max in particular.

The excitement in Crofty and Di Resta (still a dreadful commentator btw) was extremely obvious when Lewis had his pit stop problem and they realised their beloved team would be 1-2, and when Max had his tyre failure they were apoplectic at Pirelli - on the basis of 2 tyre failues in the whole race, which we don't know the cause(s) of yet.

A new broom is badly required.

What's the point of a restart, we've got >90% of the race done FFS!

After that finish, I'm not going to complain about a restart.

Ciaran wrote:What's the point of a restart, we've got >90% of the race done FFS!

Hamilton making a mistake was the point of it. It ain't over till the chequered flag waves.

Ciaran wrote:What's the point of a restart, we've got >90% of the race done FFS!

From what an individual connected with FOM has said on another forum, Liberty Media has been pushing for the heavier use of safety cars and red flag restarts to "mix things up" - rather like the infamous use of the yellow flags in NASCAR to reset a race if it looks like it's not interesting enough.

Whilst some are happy in this particular case, if that is a stated aim of Liberty Media, I'm not sure it bodes well for the long term of the sport...