The place for speaking your mind on current goings-on in F1

Pick your Reject of the Race!

Poll ended at 02 Apr 2021, 07:36

Michael Masi (and the "Track Boundaries" debacle) 5
15%
Nikita Mazepin 23
68%
Sebastian Vettel 6
18%
Total votes : 34
by Londoner 28 Mar 2021, 16:44
1. Nikita Mazepin. Possibly the most ridiculous and rejectful F1 debut we've seen since the days of Ide and Yamamoto.

2. Sebastian Vettel. If this performance is any indication, Stroll's going to make mincemeat of Seb this season.

Dishonourable mention to Michael Masi for atrocious stewarding all weekend long, and Haas for looking like the reincarnation of Forti.

kevinbotz, discussing magnesium wrote:But it's so light and lovely, Tommy. Never mind that it effectively turned Grand Prix cars constructed out of it into incendiary bombs. :P
by Ciaran 28 Mar 2021, 16:46
1. Michael Masi
2. Microdick-ita Maze-spin

Manager of Calsonic Team Impul in Formula E, K-Apex in PES & Eurasian F3 and Mitsuoka in Alt-F1 '76.
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by Spooder918 28 Mar 2021, 16:47
1. Nikita Mazepin. I don't need to explain this one, do I?
2. Pierre Gasly. He was looking so good in quali then he bathplug it up on the first lap with his front wing. He was on mediums too, so really, really unfortunate.

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by This Could Be You 28 Mar 2021, 16:48
ROTR:
1. Nikita Mazepin: Possibly the worst F1 debut weekend ever? He certainly lived up to the (reject) hype
2. Sebastian Vettel: Damon '99 vibes all weekend, with a bonus boneheaded incident with Ocon
DHM:
Stewarding: consistently inconsistent, as per
Haas: that car looked undriveable in Schumacher's hands too, and dead slow
Alpine: no pace at all, and a frankly anonymous team performance

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by Fetzie 28 Mar 2021, 16:49
1. Mazepin. Mazespin. Whatever. Got to be the worst debut ever.
2. Vettel. That was a rookie mistake
3. Alpine. Where was the Master? DNF. Where was his team mate? Barely ahead of a Williams.

DHM: Masi. Get your rules in order.
by RAK 28 Mar 2021, 16:49
1) Nikita Mazepin: Absolute clown. Going a long way to justify my thoughts of him being an incompetent spoilt brat who is only there because of Daddy's Money.

2) Sebastien Vettel: Very poor performance in comparison to Stroll.

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by Klon 28 Mar 2021, 16:51
1. F1 Media - we're gonna see people hyping up this season, implying a championship battle, even though objective analysis of the situation reveals that Mercedes will soon return to their dominant ways.

2. Sebastian Vettel - a lock-up causing a severe case of "ain't it, chief".

by Freeze-O-Kimi 28 Mar 2021, 16:55
Nikita MazeSPIN: Probably the worst debut I’ve ever seen

Sebastian Vettel: I saw a comment on the BBC Sport page that sums it up perfectly “Vettel is basically F1’s Jose Mourinho, used to be great but not anymore”

DHM’s to stewarding which was atrocious across both classes all weekend and Aston Martin for the underwhelming performance level. I expected Haas to be crap because they’ve effectively done no minor developments as they look ahead to 2022 already but seeing Aston Martin struggle like that was a surprise
by Shadaza 28 Mar 2021, 17:06
ROTR

1. Nikita Mazepin. Where it matters, he spun twice in qualifying and then spun on his own to out on the first lap. It can't get much worse than that and I'd rather Mazepin have ROTR on debut badge for the rest of his career.

2.Seb Vettel: Amateur crash into the back of Ocon and one of the lamest excuses of all time. Cap's off (though he is mostly cap on now) a dreadful weekend.

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by Meatwad 28 Mar 2021, 17:07
I'll just nominate both Mazepin and Vettel. Both were simply embarrassing. :facepalm: Maybe Vettel more so, given his experience, but I won't defend Mazepin because he's Mazepin. :P
by rachel1990 28 Mar 2021, 17:25
HM
    Stewarding. Very Poor in both the F2 and the F1 today
    Alpine- No points after a half decent Winter testing
    Ocon- Bad Weekend overall
    Haas- well we all knew that they were slow. Nobody expected them to be THAT slow.

2nd Sebastian Vettel- all that hype and still the old Vettel was there all the time. Out in Q1 (though I don't agree with the penalty he was given afterwards). And then the collision with Ocon for 12th. Which again was Vettel's fault. Got a well deserved 10-second penalty and only finished ahead of Mick Schumacher. The Hulk might get a phone call sooner than he expects.

1st Nikita Mazespin- Not only the most unlikeable F1 driver in years but on his way to being one of the worst we have seen in quite a while. Spun on the first lap and crashed out. all by himself. We may have found our ROTY already. Bloody hilarious though.

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by tBone 28 Mar 2021, 17:53
1. Mazepin. No explanation needed.
2. Track limits. New season, same inconsistent bullshit.

Very, very dishonorable mention for Sebastian Vettel, whose spatial awareness in wheel-to-wheel racing is still insufficient.

Other dishonorable mentions to Red Bull strategists (could have covered the first undercut), Alpine (damn why is that car so slow) and Haas (that car is undriveable and they are further behind despite having a proper engine again).

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by Enforcer 28 Mar 2021, 19:22
Nothing new from me really.

Track limits shouldn't decide a race and Nikita MazesBinalla lived up to his reputation.

Alpine were poor and deserve a HM.
by James1978 28 Mar 2021, 19:46
Notring new to say here apart from maybe Haas as a whole. Yes Mazespin was embarrassing but Schumi Jr spun in a similar fashion too and was miles off the pace.

I expected much better from Vettel too.

Also DHM to inconsistent rules on track limits.

"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
by koshiro 28 Mar 2021, 20:58
1.- Mazepin - I had big expectations about an utterly preposterous debut, and he didn't disappoint me. His F1 recects career looks promising.
2.- Vettel - Blaming Ocon for an accident he was 100% responsible for was the absurd ending of an awful weekend.

DHM:
F1 stewards for his nonsense regarding track limits.
Red Bull for wasting an almost sure victory with a bad pit strategy
by dinizintheoven 28 Mar 2021, 21:44
Hmmm. Well.

You may notice - or maybe you didn't - that I did not join in the cacophonous chorus of virtue-signalling about a certain Russian driver and his social media adventures. I preferred to wait until I saw how he performed on track, on the slim chance he might silence a few of those voices.

Not today, mate. Nikita Mazepin, on this weekend's evidence at least, is almost as far out of his depth in F1 as Yuji Ide was. Even the likes of Will Stevens and Roberto Merhi, who might not necessarily have made it to F1 on merit had they not been hired by our favourite backmarkers in their death throes - would do a better job. All right, so that year-old Haas is a dog that even caught out the highly-rated son of a legend, but at least Mick Schumacher dragged it to the finish... eventually.

As for Haas themselves, I'll give them a dishonourable mention on the grounds that I could make a bet that they'll draw a blank for this season and I would be willing to stake not just the user icon I've had for my entire run on this forum, but my presence on the forum itself, in that, if they score a point, I'd leave this place forever. But then, I could have said the same about Williams in 2019, and Robert Kubica managed a point, even if it did have to come from the intervention of the stewards... so I'll hold off from that for now.

Also, Sebastian Vettel... new team, same reputation-trashing performance, and if Alpine carry on the way they are, I suspect a certain prominently-eyebrowed World Champion of 15 years ago (when Yuki Tsunoda was only just starting school) won't stick around for too long.

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"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by mario 28 Mar 2021, 22:04
1. I'm split between specifying Mazepin in particular or whether this should go to Haas in general. Mazepin has certainly not covered himself in glory with his repeated mistakes throughout the weekend, culminating in his spin on the opening lap.

Mind you, whilst that was certainly a bad mistake, the fact that Mick Schumacher spun his car only a few corners later suggests that there is a fairly significant handling problem - he was rather lucky that he just happened to spin somewhere where there was a larger run off area, rather than a barrier.

Considering the car has the bare minimum updates required to get it to pass the 2021 regulations, the car probably is handling pretty poorly given the shift in aero balance from the reduction in the floor area - not exactly what a couple of rookie drivers need. With Haas also announcing they're not developing the car this year, I can see them slipping back further and further over the season - a DNQ is still unlikely, but it does make you wonder if it could happen at the tail end of the season.

2. Vettel - the disappointing thing is that, in the opening laps, when he was battling with some of the other drivers, he did actually pull off some decent passes and some fairly decent defensive moves too. However, he just disappeared in the latter part of the race, and then his collision with Ocon was frustratingly avoidable.

What's also weird is what Vettel said afterwards, which was this:
I thought he would stay right and then when he came back left, he was right ahead of me and I locked [up],” said Vettel. “So it was probably my mistake.

It's weird as Ocon passed Vettel on his left and stayed on the left hand side of the track at all times - it was Vettel who started on the right hand side of the track and then moved across to the left. It's bad enough that he did collide, but that he seems unable to recognise that he was the one moving around on track really begs the question of what is going on inside of his head.

Added to that, Vettel is now already onto 5 penalty points - he's earned 2 points for his collision with Ocon, and he was given 3 points for violating double waived yellows in qualifying. If he keeps racking up penalties at that rate, might he face the indignity of a race ban?

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by Miguel98 28 Mar 2021, 22:53
Here's my nominations:

1. Sebastian Vettel - I'm going to play a bit here with what I expected from Vettel, which was to at least be on pace with Stroll - best case scenario, he would beat him. But holy hell, what was Seb's weekend? I'm not sure if he ever particularly looked comfortable in the car, and even if it seems Aston have suffered quite a bit with the rule changes, it does not explain the full story. While I think his qualifying penalty was way too harsh for what it was - Seb did slow down and follow procedures (the whole penalty seems weird) - he still seemed slower than Lance over a lap. And the race wasn't much better. While he did make a good start and ran well in the first half of the race, he eventually fell back with a very uninspired strategy call, and he topped it all off with that rather silly crash into Ocon, which led into perhaps one of the dumbest excuses for a crash that I heard on team radio since "Ericsson hit me". And, honestly, following up on what mario said above: where is Vettel's headspace right now? I firmly believed that this would be Vettel's chance of redemption, but his morale just seems as low as it was last year with the Ferrari shambles.

2. Nikita Mazepin - Honestly, I expected nothing from Maze(s)pin, but his performance all weekend long was atrocious. He spinned 4 times across the weekend, and never seemed comfortable at all with the Haas. While, I will say, that I don't think that is entirely his fault - Schumacher himself also struggled - his exit from the race was one of the most embarassing moments I remember a rookie doing for quite a long time. But, well, not that I particularly have any love for Mazepin (Free Russia t-shirt during We Race As One, really?), but the Haas seems such a pig to drive. Schumacher also spinned on his own, and I don't think Haas are particularly going forward for the rest of the season.

Now, for the honorable mention, which I do legit think it deserves the award more than the two above, but that it requires a rather lengthy analysis:

Stewarding - Ok, this is not a problem only from this weekend, but I do think we hit a peak of shenigans this weekend all across F2 and F1 with not only the consistency of decisions, but the overall judgement and lack of clarity that Michael Masi and his friends are showing. The F2 race was complete shenanigans: it all started with Ticktum's penalty - he ruined Verschoor's race clearly, his full mistake. Result? 5 second penalty. Lundgaard, the next race does something very very similar. Result? 10 second penalty. The moves are very similar between themselves if you check the video, so what's the difference in criteria here? And Lundgaard was the result of another shenanigan in that race, as he served that penalty in the pitlane under SC, and the stewards themselves got confused if that was allowed (I swear it isn't, but they let Lundgaard get away scot free). And if that all wasn't enough, then come the outright crapshoot of today's feature race, with the VSC and subsequent SC deployment following Pentecof's retirement.

See, I'm not a big fan of VSC (mainly, as I do think the FIA have been using it for other purposes other than safety), but that moment of VSC and SC was just shenanigans. Race leader Oscar Piastri was just coming out of the pits when VSC got deployed (Pentecof's car had been at the turn 1 runoff for almost a full racing lap at this point, so see the time it took for them to decide), so racing was stopped as Piastri was about to be overtaken, so he leapfrogged his rivals. But what annoyed me wasn't just the timing of the SC, it's that it got followed about 15-20 seconds by the SC getting triggered - then what's the point of the VSC? And this is not the first time that the FIA have done thi, where they throw a VSC for like 10 seconds and then throw a SC. And the SC wasn't necessary, as in the end of the following lap, they sent the SC in! And there was only 5 cars behind it! What the hell?? It was a total farce, and this subsequent show gave 5 or 6 drivers a time penalty for SC infrigement. On the subject of that: SC deltas are a farce and need to be removed, effective imediatelly. All the cars were on the lead lap, so why weren't they all allowed to come back behind the SC before it came in? And a few laps later, after this, we once again got a car beached at turn 1, but this time VSC got deployed only.

Once again, this reveals a problem of consistency, which is something that I think that Michael Masi has not fixed, but rather made much worse. I have no clue who is he trying to please, but I do believe that he is much more competent than what he is showing right now and what he has showed since he took the job. And the consistency problem once again showed up in the F1 race. The whole discussion if Max overtook outside the track was fair or not because Lewis went outside the track at the same corner (apparently 29 times) because drivers were told track limits were not being enforced. How are you not enforcing track limits? I understand why Max had to give back the position - overtaking outside the track should not happen - but this whole grey area around track limits that has been source of discussion for the past year and something is dumb. They should fix this situation and determine exactly, for the ENTIRE WEEKEND, what is or not allowed. Changing it mid-weekend or, even worse, mid-race, is absolutely terrible stewarding.

Oh, and before I finish the rant, let me remember: Verstappen's restart wasn't problematic, but he did exactly the same Bottas did at Mugello. So I see that F1 have completelly forgotten to change the procedure after that destruction derby of a restart. Fantastic. Change the rules or change Masi. The sport needs consistency, and this lack of consistency will not help in the long term.

Alpha Tauri - Haven't seen them mentioned, but despite Tsunoda's points, where did their pace go?

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by Aislabie 28 Mar 2021, 23:22
1. Track Limits
The white line around the track should denote the track limits, and placing all four wheels over it without force majeure should be penalised. Hamilton put all four wheels comfortably over the white lines 29 times during the race, and faced no penalty for it. The argument was that it was impossible to prove that he gained a lasting advantage, but as Brundle always says - if there was no advantage, the drivers wouldn't be out there.

2. Nikita Mazepin
ROTR is all about not meeting expectations, and Nikita Mazepin did not reach the very low bar he set himself. He does not meet the Latifi Line for Minimal Pace, and may also be struggling to achieve the Yuji Ide Safety Standard. Jesus Christ that was a bad weekend.

DHM 1 - Dan Ticktum
Three races, three crashes. Just stop driving into people.

DHM 2 - Sebastian Vettel
Honestly, the thing that stopped me properly nominating him was that thing about expectations. He was a trash (but understandable) signing - a clearly tired and demoralised driver, no matter their eight-year-old pedigree, is not a wise investment. A tired and demoralised performance across the weekend (and likely the season) is exactly what I expected from him though so he escapes nomination here.
by Butterfox 29 Mar 2021, 01:45
Mazepin is making this not really a debate. But Track Limits and Vettel wouldn't be undeserving of the ROTR either.

I don't know what i want and i want it now!
by WaffleCat 29 Mar 2021, 01:52
1. The Russian Automobile Federation spokesperson -- He deserves the hate he gets. He deserves everyone deriding him for a lack of talent. His antics in qualifying already put him on my ROTR. Add on the fact that his debut lasted exactly as long as Marco Apicella's career, all thanks to himself (yes, the Haas is garbage, but there's still very little excuse for doing it on the barely-there turn 3), and you have one of the most clear-cut ROTRs of all time.

2. Sebastian Vettel -- I don't want to say it. I really don't. I hoped there'd be SOME spark. But this race was Jacques Villeneuve levels of washed-up champion material.

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by UncreativeUsername37 29 Mar 2021, 03:53
1. Vettel; a four-time champion crashing into someone by not deciding which line to brake on is bad enough, but saying that that someone who was parallel to the track the entire time did it seals the deal
2. Haas; something's up with that car, man

Rob Dylan wrote:Mercedes paying homage to the other W12 chassis by breaking down 30 minutes in
by James1978 29 Mar 2021, 06:54
The worrying thing about Haas is there's no experienced driver who could have had some development knowledge (not that I know if Grosjean and Magnussen were any good in this area but still)!

"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
by Butterfox 29 Mar 2021, 07:33
James1978 wrote:The worrying thing about Haas is there's no experienced driver who could have had some development knowledge (not that I know if Grosjean and Magnussen were any good in this area but still)!

Well there's Pietro Fittipaldi with his massive experience of 2 races :P

But yeah the car already didn't work great in 2019 and has hardly been developed since. Makes sense that they'd suffer the most from the downforce cuts at the rear.

I don't know what i want and i want it now!
by dr-baker 29 Mar 2021, 09:03
Butterfox wrote:
James1978 wrote:The worrying thing about Haas is there's no experienced driver who could have had some development knowledge (not that I know if Grosjean and Magnussen were any good in this area but still)!

Well there's Pietro Fittipaldi with his massive experience of 2 races :P .

Well, that's still a whole load more experienced than Haas's number 2 driver...

Miguel98 wrote:whole load of stuff about consistency of stewarding

When I was reading all that, it just made me realise what a wonderful job Charlie Whiting did. At least as race director. We rarely judged his SC calls to the same degree then. And he was usually a lot more consistent over the weekend, and not changing things midsession.

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by takagi_for_the_win 29 Mar 2021, 09:23
1. Mazepin - Coming into this weekend, I had seen a lot of talk about how poor a driver he is. Given his antics, for want of a better word, on social media, I assumed that this was a case of people disliking him on a personal level and in turn basing their opinion of his driving ability around that. No. He was shite. Two very lazy spins in Q1, the second of which did a solid job of jeopardising the runs of those behind him (admittedly I'm no F1 driver but if I was on a do-or-die lap and I saw a red, white, and blue car pirouetting in the space where I was intending to brake 5 seconds later it would probably throw my concentration ever so slightly). He then followed this up with a superb race start, where it looked like he was beaten by the novel new concept of "cold tyres". Easy nomination for me, should be a cut and dried ROTR.

2. Vettel - Oh, Inspector Seb. There wasn't much to his race that was that bad, but his incident with Ocon was exactly the kind of incident that Jenoch would've loved. So startled was he by the temerity of Ocon's glacial Alpine for overtaking him, he locked his brakes and shunted the back of the Frenchman in an accident that would be scarcely forgivable for a rookie, never mind a man who debuted 14 years ago and has 4 world championships. I'll forgive him the comments he made in the heat of the moment, I'm not sure I'd be the most objective person in the world if I were in his shoes, but as Mario has noted it doesn't look like Vettel, even in the cold light of day having seen replays of the accident, has the introspection required to admit he was in the wrong.

Dishonourable Mention - Track Limits - Having spent much of the afternoon yesterday doing odd jobs, I managed to catch the last 15 laps of the race and decided to join the Discord. When Max pulled out his move on Hamilton, I couldn't understand why everyone was annoyed - he was clearly off the track when he made the overtake, surely there should be no question about it? Then someone pointed out that pretty much every driver, on every lap, had gone off the track at that corner. Notwithstanding how bathplug wide the track is at that corner, the inconsistency appears to be baffling. The clue should be in the name. Track limits. Limit - defined as a point or level beyond which something does not or may not extend or pass. It should be bathplug simple for the stewards, or whoever has the jurisdiction over this sort of thing, to enforce. Track limits, or if we substitute the dictionary definition of the word, the point or level on the track beyond which drivers may not extend, should be set in stone. Once all 4 wheels go over the white lines, at any point of the weekend, punishment should be meted out. Drivers wouldn't have got away with it back when grass and gravel traps lined the tracks and while I understand that for safety measures we can't have those back, it appears that the concept of track limits is dying a death. Enforce track limits properly, at all corners of all tracks, and discussions like this can become a thing of the past.

TORA! TORA! TORA!
by Frogfoot9013 29 Mar 2021, 09:38
My ROTR nominations are as follows:

1. Nikita Mazepin
2. FIA stewarding
3. Sebastian Vettel

There isn't really anything for me to say on these matters that hasn't already been said in earlier posts in this thread, so I will refrain from rants of my own.

James Hunt, commentating on the 1991 German Grand Prix wrote:The Benettons looking very smart together on the track, mostly because they're both going so slowly.
by Warren Hughes 29 Mar 2021, 10:10
Mazepin, on the basis of the evidence currently available, is a throwback to the glory days of reject-dom gone by. Qualifying dead last, having spun twice in Q1, before spinning himself into retirement at turn 3 on the first lap? That sort of performance is the reason this website exists. I love him, and so should we all!

Nico Rosberg wrote:Break me down mentally? Good luck with that one.

:roll:
by Rob Dylan 29 Mar 2021, 10:15
takagi_for_the_win wrote:It should be bathplug simple for the stewards, or whoever has the jurisdiction over this sort of thing, to enforce.
Without ranting too much, I'm sure it's also a complete coincidence that controversial stewards' decisions completely benefit Lewis Hamilton whenever he is fighting for a win *cough* Canada 2019 *cough* Imola 2020 *cough*.

Long time ago now, but there was a very exciting race in which Hamilton pushed Rosberg over track limits when overtaking at the very same corner in 2014 which warranted no action. Add a bit of gravel (or a concrete wall) there and Rosberg's race would have been over at the time. Old news and an old rant, however, so I'll stop.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by tommykl 29 Mar 2021, 11:04
I don't really have much to add to what's been said previously. Mazepin showed that he's about as good a driver as he is a person by completing two more formation laps than he did race laps, Vettel somehow managed to conflate Ocon's car with his own, and the track limit stewarding was as inconsistent as ever.

The Haas looks not only slow but near-undriveable. That said, I won't vote for them for ROTR here. This is best served for an ROTY campaign.

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by Pacific Edge 29 Mar 2021, 15:38
3rd: Perez' electronics: Cost him a lot of places, and wrecked his strategy, left us wondering what could have been.

2nd: Mazepin: Looks like Haas got all the worst of Grosjean without the best. At least he didn't completely destroy the car.

1st: Vettel: Gets out qualified by Stroll on pace, then gets a penalty for ignoring yellow flags. And that was just qualifying, in the race he didn't really shine, then clumsily collects Ocon. Anyone who has started watching F1 in the past 7 years can be forgiven for wondering if he really is a 4 time champion

DHM: The track limits situation They did the pre season test here, and STILL cannot figure this out!
by SammiRei 29 Mar 2021, 19:54
1st: Sebastian Vettel
After holding Alonso off on old tyres part-way through the race to let Stroll get further up the road, I thought he might be showing the ability to race wheel to wheel we've not seen from him in a little while.
Then he hit Ocon in a clumsy lockup and tried to blame him for moving when he clearly didn't.
Never mind, business as usual.

2nd: Nikita Mazepin
Off-track misbehaviour aside, I give him some leeway for being a rookie, but repeatedly spinning in qualifying and then managing to bin it into the wall in the opening corner is not a good sign of his ability as a driver. Quite why the stewards noted the incident I have no idea, since it looked pretty clear he didn't need helping into the wall.
by CoopsII 29 Mar 2021, 20:33
1 Mazepin - Fantastic, I hope he does this all year.
2 Vettel - New team but same old 'Don't You Know Who I Am?' approach to other F1 cars on the track.

Just For One Day...

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