The place for discussion of all aspects of the gprejects.com website
by dinizintheoven 21 Mar 2019, 16:16
I've been reading Ibsey's book, recently. (And if you see this post, Ibsey, I've sent you an email via this forum which may have gone into your spam folder, even though it is definitely not spam. Look for it.)

Inspired by the sheer massive amount of time and effort that went into the production of that book, I am finally going to do what I first thought of doing eight years ago when "the old site" was still active, and had a massive hole in it that I always thought needed plugging.

I am going to write the AGS profile.

The target is to release it at (or just before) the French Grand Prix weekend. Since this race returned to the calendar it's been back at Paul Ricard - just a stone's throw from Gonfaron - and, in case anyone had forgotten, 2019 is the 20th anniversary of "the old site", where many of the driver and team profiles had been written in its first year. I thought now was as good a time as any.

Those of you who know me in any way will know I don't like to do anything by halves. Some will remember the five F1RMGP seasons that should still be lurking in the archive section of the Perry McCarthy forum. As the series went on, race reports (for something that nobody could actually watch!) grew longer and longer... until Formula E arrived and stole my thunder (though that did them lead to the "GPR Goes To Battersea" podcast, which I made sure was similarly thorough). If there is any nit-picking detail I can find, at all, I intend to include it. I don't think it will be as enormous as the profiles of Johnny Claes, Lucas di Grassi or Sébastien Buemi, but if there is an unofficial word limit then I intend to pay about as much attention to it as I would to a conference on fax machine sales.

Of course, if there's anyone else who wants to tell me any details I might otherwise have forgotten, or who would volunteer to proof-read the final version (and not marmalise it the way Ferrari did to the career of AGS' first driver), stick your hand up, hit the "private message" button and make sure it's in an email, because the PM inbox on this site gets bunged up very quickly.

Marchons! Marchons!

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Last edited by dinizintheoven on 21 Mar 2019, 19:31, edited 1 time in total.

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by dr-baker 21 Mar 2019, 16:58
Holy blue indeed! I look forward to this! I know you do not do things by halves (that F1RMGP series was brilliant! Loved the spin-off series too. ;-) ). And knowing that Ibsey is inspiring you too pleases me. I have met him and he is a good guy. I too have a copy of his book, looking forward to having the time to sit down properly and read it.

Don't forget bigears' thread on the AGS team here: https://www.gprejects.com/forum/viewtop ... 96#p231696 Bigears's profiles are what inspired me in my MasterCard Lola thread (and subsequent article).

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by dinizintheoven 21 Mar 2019, 19:30
dr-baker wrote:Don't forget bigears' thread on the AGS team here: https://www.gprejects.com/forum/viewtop ... 96#p231696 Bigears's profiles are what inspired me in my MasterCard Lola thread (and subsequent article).

I'd previously saved a thread from the old forum written in Portuguese about AGS, so I'll add this to the collection. I was looking through the "Editorial Direction" thread and bigears was mentioned a few times in there - I never forgot those huge posts and it's good to know I can still see the one I need, pictures and all.

Today, I have mostly been sifting through Motor Sport's archive of old F2/F3000 results to see how much information I could get out of those, and as they're so comprehensive I'll do the same for F3. That'll be an excellent grounding on where the team came from, though not so much where they went from there...

Mischa, who was going to write the AGS profile, didn't last long here... 8 posts, thank you and goodnight.

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by CaptainGetz12 21 Mar 2019, 20:37
I look forward to hearing this profile, and best of luck!

Sebastian Vettel, during free practice wrote:There is something loose between my legs, apart from the obvious...
by dinizintheoven 21 Mar 2019, 22:44
CaptainGetz12 wrote:I look forward to hearing this profile

Good news! The audiobook version will be released soon afterwards.

Bad news! The narrator will be Nigel Mansell...

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by dinizintheoven 25 Mar 2019, 14:57
I have started writing. And I've been doing a bit of digging on the current set of profiles hosted on GP Rejects, and also some other articles.

I've amassed quite a few sources so far, including two threads here - the one by "bigears" that the Doctor mentioned, and the one by "deivison" written in Portuguese, helpfully translated by DanielPT. There's one I've found on Unraced F1 about the stillborn JH26, I've found two about the MGN W12 test that ties into the AGS story, and I'm looking for as many cited photos as I can to ascertain absolutely when the cars were changed, and when the liveries changed mid-season (which is the kind of in-depth digging that "F1 Livery Histories" does on his YouTube channel).

I've got two "gold standards" that I'm aiming for. One is the section on AGS from Pierre Ménard's Great Encyclopedia of Formula One, which covers 1950-2000 and contains the complete AGS story. I've scanned it, OCRed it and it totals 3,245 words. I've also saved an offline copy of the original F1 Rejects article on Coloni (or at least the text of it), back when the trouble at t' mill that blighted the original site hadn't hit yet; I'd assume this was one that Jamie and Enoch wrote in the early days of the site, as it contains little of Coloni's post-F1 activities and makes only a cursory reference to anything after 1999 (which is HWNSNBM driving for Coloni in F3000 in 2003, and is probably a minor update to the original). This is 3,884 words - and as aficionados of the old site will remember, there were quite a few profiles longer than this one. I might have figured, previously, that as Coloni's existence was round about the same length as that of AGS (actually, one season shorter...) then this would be an ideal template to work with.

In more recent times, those who have been enthusiastic to write profiles for GP Rejects have gone... rather further than this. The three-part Super Aguri profile - one of only two teams profiled on this site - is around 10,500 words for a team that competed in two seasons and four races; meanwhile, Lucas di Grassi's solitary F1 season scored him a profile of 10,113 words and Sébastien Buemi, who's had a lot of fingers in several pies since his three F1 seasons - was deemed eligible for a massive 27,610 words. To put that into perspective, my PhD thesis was 44,000 words, and some of that was the data entry section at the end that isn't really "words" as such.

I'm going to make sure the job is as thorough as I can manage - this site needs some more team profiles, after all. I can't say for definite how much I'll write, but if I was forced to cap it at 3,000 words then there is no way I would consider that a thorough job. I'm going to take 5,000 as a minimum, with no maximum - though it won't be thesis-length like the Buemi profile.

If there's anyone out there who wants to read it through before publication for a second opinion, now would be an excellent time to raise a hand.

And if anyone wants to be reminded what my writing style can be - in that I have a writing style at all, because I am not a literary man - you could do a lot worse than review the 2015 F1RMGP thread. I did exactly that over the weekend, and found some typos that I really should have eliminated, only all those race reports took so long to write that they slid through the net...


EDIT: Ooh crikey, as they say down Lawnmower Deth way. I've just dug up some articles, also in Portuguese, on the Bandeira Verde blog. And they're... long. And there are 18 of them. I'm going to run them all through Google Translate... and see how long the (presumably very badly translated) total is.
EDIT EDIT: 51,000 words. FIFTY-ONE THOUSAND. I don't think I'll be going into quite that much detail... but it should fill in any gaps I have.

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by dr-baker 26 Mar 2019, 10:09
And that post alone is nearly 700 words. You're setting yourself up here for an epic of epic proportions. May in not go up in flames like someone's blue car in the late 1990s...

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by dinizintheoven 27 Mar 2019, 01:18
The things I am learning by attempting this profile...

I was wondering why I couldn't find any times for the pre-qualifying sessions for the 1988 season, when there were 31 cars entered and five would have been expected to get up early on the Friday to slug it out for the right not to have an early bath. Turns out, there was no such thing. This is what I can deduce from the official Formula 1 website's archives: what would happen was, all 31 cars would be sent out for first practice, then the slowest of all those earmarked for pre-qualifiying would be eliminated, and 30 cars would take part in the rest of the race weekend. Initially, this was the new boys - Coloni (who'd had two early attempts towards the end of the 1987 season), Rial, Scuderia Italia and the two EuroBruns. But, what's this? Nicola Larini failed to pre-qualify the Osella FA1L twice in the second half of the season, which left me trying to piece together who had been saved from pre-qualifying to drop Osella in their place. Rial were fairly obvious - Andrea de Cesaris had somehow wrestled the blue Ferrari-meets-F3000 to fourth in Detroit, but were there any more? Even by tracking who finished behind the DNPQ cars for the second half of the season doesn't confirm who was definitely rescued and who wasn't; de Cesaris finished behind the DNPQ car twice which absolutely confirms that he didn't have to pre-qualify for the second half, but at no point did Alex Caffi ever do the same, so there's no clear indication if the powers that be still had their eye on him. According to Wikipedia's 1988 German Grand Prix article, it was just de Cesaris being rescued from pre-qualifying with Larini dropping in his place...

I had to work out all the points, and the 7th/8th/9th positions, from the first half of the 1988 season and the second half of the 1987 season to see how it all made sense - as Zakspeed finished stone dead last in 1988 and only by a 7th place at the end of 1987 did they escape pre-qualifying for the entire 1988 season. Only when I'd made the table of points and positions was it clear - Scuderia Italia were 15th, Coloni were 16th, Osella were 17th and EuroBrun were 18th, and with five cars between the four teams it was just a straight Rial/Osella swap.

Now I am going to have to do the same thing for the middle of the 1991 season when AGS, Brabham and Footwork all found themselves getting up early on the Friday morning again... and assess what it would have taken at the last gasp for AGS not to have dropped into that session (though the word "miracle" does spring immediately to mind by this point).

And then there's this article from Motor Sport at the end of 1988, which lays out some not-quite-finalised plans for the formal pre-qualifying session for 1989:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arch ... grand-prix
It's not quite as we know it, but they did have another three months to iron out the flaws.

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by CaptainGetz12 27 Mar 2019, 01:20
At this point we should make a "history of pre-qualifying in F1" as an addendum :D

Though the "list of exemptions will be reviewed on the basis of race results" clause makes me think of modern NASCAR rules *shudder*.

Sebastian Vettel, during free practice wrote:There is something loose between my legs, apart from the obvious...
by dinizintheoven 05 Apr 2019, 20:15
At this stage, I have written 2,733 words, most of which are bits and pieces about the 1988 and 1989 seasons, and there's a hell of a lot more to cover on those two years yet. A document with all my notes, URLs and season results adds another 12,000 to this (in which a URL counts as one word but a lot of abbreviations will make up for that). Already I am going to say the final article will have a five-figure word count, so likely as not I'll split it into three parts (with as even a division as possible), similar to the Super Aguri profile.

Will anyone volunteer to be a proof-reader when I've ground out version 1.0?

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by CaptainGetz12 06 Apr 2019, 03:26
dinizintheoven wrote:At this stage, I have written 2,733 words, most of which are bits and pieces about the 1988 and 1989 seasons, and there's a hell of a lot more to cover on those two years yet. A document with all my notes, URLs and season results adds another 12,000 to this (in which a URL counts as one word but a lot of abbreviations will make up for that). Already I am going to say the final article will have a five-figure word count, so likely as not I'll split it into three parts (with as even a division as possible), similar to the Super Aguri profile.

Will anyone volunteer to be a proof-reader when I've ground out version 1.0?


I can proofread it if you want, PM me if you're interested!

Sebastian Vettel, during free practice wrote:There is something loose between my legs, apart from the obvious...
by Rob Dylan 06 Apr 2019, 10:42
Likewise, I've done a lot of proof-reading in my time, and can definitely do the grammar bits right at least if need be :)

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by dinizintheoven 06 Apr 2019, 23:48
SPG is the least of my troubles - I was properly educated in the 1980s, after all - but catching any typos that I've missed would be useful. I'm sure there will also be someone out there telling me to stop using so many words. This is how many I have so far, for the three seasons I've written:

1986: 1,466
1987: 3,140
1988: 2,825

Expect not quite as many for the following three seasons as AGS became more familiar with the letters D, N, P and Q - and how much I can write for the pre-F1 days, I could not possibly estimate. Either way, everyone who reads the finished article will be occupied for a lot more than five minutes.

I am going to bed now, because I'm not a writer by trade and my head is starting to spin. Though it may be from having to look at so many pictures of the gopping JH22... especially in Monaco spec. I'd rather look at the hacked-up chassis from the MGN test.

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by ibsey 17 Apr 2019, 17:26
[quote="dinizintheoven"]I've been reading Ibsey's book, recently. (And if you see this post, Ibsey, I've sent you an email via this forum which may have gone into your spam folder, even though it is definitely not spam. Look for it.)

Inspired by the sheer massive amount of time and effort that went into the production of that book, I am finally going to do what I first thought of doing eight years ago when "the old site" was still active, and had a massive hole in it that I always thought needed plugging.

I am going to write the AGS profile. [quote="dinizintheoven"]



Hi dinizintheoven I've just seen your message above and your kind email (it did go into my Spam). Massive apologies for the late reply - cannot tell you how busy I've been. Anyway great to hear & hope you enjoyed the rest of the book. :)

Also great to hear you have been inspired to take up writing, although trust me it is alot harder than you ever imagine. So you REALLY do need passion for the subject your writing about. Anyway if you need any advise on producing an audiobook do let me know...this is because I have just released a an audio book version of my recently released book: 1994: The Untold Story which is now available for purchase at https://www.audiobooks.co.uk/audiobook/ ... son/380646. where you can listen to it for free via their initial trial period. Likewise an additional audiobook can be found at: https://www.estories.com/audiobook/2856 ... -the-1990s Again it should be free to new customers & contains many stories on reject teams/drivers (Pacific GP & Roland Ratzenberger etc). IN case your wondering here are the reviews of the book: http://www.1994f1.com/sample-page/

Anyway must go, but I wish you all the best with your writing project and do let me know if I can help in any way :)

Coming January 2019 a new F1 book revisiting 1994.


Pre order it here; www.performancepublishing.co.uk/1994-th ... eason.html


The book's website; www.1994f1.com/

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