The GPRejects swing-o-meter.

[Eifelland]

I've been away for quite a while, so gone are the days when I could have told you how everyone felt on everything, but is Vettel still as almost universally reviled as he was 2-3 seasons ago?

I remember quite a bit of vitriol, mostly vis-a-vis the fact that RBR had the tendency to absolutely dominate.

Do we all still hate him passionately, or have his Ferrari antics begrudgingly won him some respect?

[Bobby Doorknobs]

I never really disliked Vettel. I disliked his dominance, but I never really disliked him as a driver or as a person... Except when he's pissed

[Eifelland]

Hah, you were one of the milder ones as I recall.

The acid test is how Rachel1992 feels about him.

[pi314159]

I've been away for quite a while, so gone are the days when I could have told you how everyone felt on everything, but is Vettel still as almost universally reviled as he was 2-3 seasons ago?

I remember quite a bit of vitriol, mostly vis-a-vis the fact that RBR had the tendency to absolutely dominate.

Do we all still hate him passionately, or have his Ferrari antics begrudgingly won him some respect?

I don't think Vettel was ever hated as much as Red Bull. There even was a "Helmut Marko hate thread" back then. Vettel hate seems to be mostly gone since his move to Ferrari. I've never hated Vettel, but I was quite sick of getting the "Vettel is the greatest ever" narrative shoved down my throat by the German F1 coverage.

Hamilton seems to have considerably dropped in popularity though. Not surprising considering this forum gravitates towards the underdogs. While other forums attract many fans of dominating drivers, any driver or team dominating for an extended period of time seems to end up being disliked here.

[RonDenisDeletraz]

I have never really liked Vettel, but I do have to give some credit to him for his 2015 Ferrari performance. He proved that he can perform beyond his equipment, something I didn't often see at Red Bull. I still think Helmut Marko is a slimy prick though.

Another thing to note, it does seems like Vettel and Webber are on much better terms now they are no longer teammates.

[DemocalypseNow]

I've been away for quite a while, so gone are the days when I could have told you how everyone felt on everything, but is Vettel still as almost universally reviled as he was 2-3 seasons ago?

I remember quite a bit of vitriol, mostly vis-a-vis the fact that RBR had the tendency to absolutely dominate.

Do we all still hate him passionately, or have his Ferrari antics begrudgingly won him some respect?

Well, if I may, I think the interesting thing here is the big swing to Vettel in the beginning, and then of course the very large swing away from Vettel at RBR, followed by the tendency to wobble up and down in the middle, because we all have screws loose.

[DanielPT]

I have never really liked Vettel, but I do have to give some credit to him for his 2015 Ferrari performance. He proved that he can perform beyond his equipment, something I didn't often see at Red Bull. I still think Helmut Marko is a slimy prick though.

I am unsure of that. All things considered, Raikkonen rate of points improved from Alonso to Vettel (car competitiveness might have helped too), and we know that he has been under-performing in a Ferrari (and I suspect at Lotus which is why I believe they had a championship contender car and, at the same time, the reason why I don't rate Grosjean that high) at least compared to his team-mates. It is possible that Vettel has been showing what the car can make while Raikkonen, well, has been disappointing yet again.

Anyway, I never really hated Vettel for that matter, as my beef was with Red Bull but I don't consider him to be on the same level as an Alain Prost or even some others with less titles than him. He is a great driver in this era but if you look at the grid you'd struggle to make a case for him being the third best driver of grid never mind the second. The fact that Hamilton is actually a very worthy driver (one of the two best drivers of this era, IMHO), makes his dominance less annoying and more understandable therefore less "hateable".

Nowadays I am found being busy at making fun of Nico Rosberg. I usually find myself admiring journeymen, except those who think of themselves as better than what they usually are.

Finally, I guess the forum moved on from Vettel domination.

[AndreaModa]

Everyone has a varying level of 'dislike' for the driver winning everything. I think it's as simple as that.

[mario]

I've been away for quite a while, so gone are the days when I could have told you how everyone felt on everything, but is Vettel still as almost universally reviled as he was 2-3 seasons ago?

I remember quite a bit of vitriol, mostly vis-a-vis the fact that RBR had the tendency to absolutely dominate.

Do we all still hate him passionately, or have his Ferrari antics begrudgingly won him some respect?

I don't think Vettel was ever hated as much as Red Bull. There even was a "Helmut Marko hate thread" back then. Vettel hate seems to be mostly gone since his move to Ferrari. I've never hated Vettel, but I was quite sick of getting the "Vettel is the greatest ever" narrative shoved down my throat by the German F1 coverage.

Hamilton seems to have considerably dropped in popularity though. Not surprising considering this forum gravitates towards the underdogs. While other forums attract many fans of dominating drivers, any driver or team dominating for an extended period of time seems to end up being disliked here.

I do agree that quite a lot of the vitriol that was poured onto Vettel came from a visceral dislike of the team, and in particular Helmut Marko. Inevitably, a proportion of that would then reflect onto Vettel given that he was the focal point for the team, such that any perceived foul play by the team was seen in turn as eventually benefiting him.

Furthermore, as Webber alluded to in his autobiography, Vettel's own attitude, as time went on, was negatively influenced by Marko and Mateschitz and mirrored their political leanings too - given their overbearing and arrogant attitudes, the fact that Vettel seemed to be aligning himself with them more closely in turn seems to have soured the public perception of him.

Nowadays I am found being busy at making fun of Nico Rosberg. I usually find myself admiring journeymen, except those who think of themselves as better than what they usually are.

You do have a point there - I think that, out of the two Mercedes drivers, Rosberg sometimes is given more scathing treatment because there is a sense of being underwhelmed by his performances. It is not that he is a bad driver, but the sense that there is untapped potential that he throws away because of a lack of self discipline on track - mainly in the sense that, when pressured at a critical time, he tends to make mistakes that a driver of his level of experience should not be making.

[girry]

I have never really liked Vettel, but I do have to give some credit to him for his 2015 Ferrari performance. He proved that he can perform beyond his equipment, something I didn't often see at Red Bull. I still think Helmut Marko is a slimy prick though.

I am unsure of that. All things considered, Raikkonen rate of points improved from Alonso to Vettel (car competitiveness might have helped too), and we know that he has been under-performing in a Ferrari (and I suspect at Lotus which is why I believe they had a championship contender car and, at the same time, the reason why I don't rate Grosjean that high) at least compared to his team-mates. It is possible that Vettel has been showing what the car can make while Raikkonen, well, has been disappointing yet again.

Obviously Kimi's rate of points improved when compared to Vettel, since the 2015 Ferrari was so far ahead of the rest of the pack (bar Mercedes...) that it usually required Kimi to royally screw things up to finish outside of top 4, even if a lot slower than Vettel. Granted, he did manage that in a somewhat regular basis - but not quite regular enough so that Vettel could possibly have beaten Kimi by three times the amount of points, that Alonso could because the 2014 Ferrari was in the midfield battle and Kimi's regular finish was thus 10th...

Furthermore, Kimi is far from a solid yardstick, since he's particularly awful when outside his comfort zone (that is, when his car doesn't turn in, or it's raining) - remember the couple of Lotus races when he was completely anonymous because he didnt like the steering rack - and at least from what I could gather from his interviews, he was far happier with the car in 2015 than 2014 in that sense.

---

The former-dominating-force-that-most-hated-is-now-the-favorite-underdog thingy applies to all sports, really. Schumi was arguably way more popular after 2005 than before it, everybody cheered Loeb on against Ogier at Monte Carlo, Vale Rossi can spit on everybody's face and still gets sympathies, Federer seems really popular in tennis now, football players gain on popularity by age usually...the list could go on.

[FullMetalJack]

Everyone has a varying level of 'dislike' for the driver winning everything. I think it's as simple as that.

It really is. Obviously people will always have certain drivers they like or don't like, but generally speaking, a lot of fans don't want to see one driver dominating.

On the subject of fans liking certain drivers, it irritates me when people were sick of Vettel winning all the time, but were perfectly fine with watching Hamilton as regularly as he does.

I say this as a Jenson Button fan, i'd have even got bored of him dominating 2009 eventually had it lasted the whole season, and not just because I was eagerly awaiting Mark Webber to finally score his first win.

[DanielPT]

Obviously Kimi's rate of points improved when compared to Vettel, since the 2015 Ferrari was so far ahead of the rest of the pack (bar Mercedes...) that it usually required Kimi to royally screw things up to finish outside of top 4, even if a lot slower than Vettel. Granted, he did manage that in a somewhat regular basis - but not quite regular enough so that Vettel could possibly have beaten Kimi by three times the amount of points, that Alonso could because the 2014 Ferrari was in the midfield battle and Kimi's regular finish was thus 10th...

It would appear that way wouldn't? Well, I went into some research and found out almost instantly that there are 2 forgotten facts which make his points percentage against Vettel to look worse: He retired 5 times in 2015 against 1 in 2014. That means less races to take points last year. Secondly, he finished 3 times in front of Vettel while only one against Alonso. Even in 2014, it would have mattered, points wise, if he had finished those races ahead of Alonso. So I went deep and checked if, at any given race where all finished, Kimi had managed the same distance to Alonso as he did to Vettel, where he would have ended up in the end. He would have improved from 25.5% of the points to 38.18% in 2014. I also did the other way around (in 2015, his distance to Vettel equal to the distance against Alonso) and of course the percentage dropped, this time from 35% to 30%. So, as I previously said, while the pecking order had its influence, the stats clearly show that Kimi did improve his team-mate comparison data from 2014 to 2015.

Furthermore, Kimi is far from a solid yardstick, since he's particularly awful when outside his comfort zone (that is, when his car doesn't turn in, or it's raining) - remember the couple of Lotus races when he was completely anonymous because he didnt like the steering rack - and at least from what I could gather from his interviews, he was far happier with the car in 2015 than 2014 in that sense.

How much of it was from him being happier with the 2015 car than the 2014 one? It is way more difficult to quantify, if not impossible... I still remember Raikkonen from his early days where he either starred or broke down. I don't remember his happiness about the car or his disliking of something being a factor in his intra-team battle and so I will still judge him that way since I believe it is not a characteristic you suddenly acquire. Just look at Button. Besides, Kimi drove his fair share of F1 cars and it wasn't a problem before. It's motivation was, remember? Anyway, based on it, I still maintain that Alonso is a level above Vettel until they share a car together and prove me wrong (And I say this not only from these comparisons but from a perception point of view) and that Vettel's performance in the Ferrari are great but not that outstanding.

[girry]

Yeah he was a tad closer to Vettel than to Alonso in general, but not to such a grand amount that the points tally difference would suggest. I just pointed out that it is a particularly bad yardstick.

How much of it was from him being happier with the 2015 car than the 2014 one? It is way more difficult to quantify, if not impossible... I still remember Raikkonen from his early days where he either starred or broke down. I don't remember his happiness about the car or his disliking of something being a factor in his intra-team battle and so I will still judge him that way since I believe it is not a characteristic you suddenly acquire. Just look at Button. Besides, Kimi drove his fair share of F1 cars and it wasn't a problem before. It's motivation was, remember?

It is difficult to quantify indeed, and thats exactly why I'd refrain from making any kind of judgements in the Vettel v Alonso "battle" by how far Kimi was off them...

I remember Kimi's early days too and whereas the Newey McLarens always fit him like a glove, the season he joined Ferrari it started to go apart. Early 2007 he struggled with the Bridgestones, mid 2008 with the new front suspension, early 2009 with the new formula in general, then the couple of races in 2012 with the wheel rack, late 2013 with the harder tyres - to my reckoning, that's a pretty solid track record of performance slumps being factors in his intra-team battles isn't it?

Don't get the Button reference either - isn't he a perfect example of a driver getting lapped by his team-mate (literally - see 2012) when he can't find "the balance"..?

[DanielPT]

It is difficult to quantify indeed, and thats exactly why I'd refrain from making any kind of judgements in the Vettel v Alonso "battle" by how far Kimi was off them...

I remember Kimi's early days too and whereas the Newey McLarens always fit him like a glove, the season he joined Ferrari it started to go apart. Early 2007 he struggled with the Bridgestones, mid 2008 with the new front suspension, early 2009 with the new formula in general, then the couple of races in 2012 with the wheel rack, late 2013 with the harder tyres - to my reckoning, that's a pretty solid track record of performance slumps being factors in his intra-team battles isn't it?

Maybe, but with most team-mates, if not all, it should not be factored in since everyone is entitled to have their bad day(s) at the office during the season.

Don't get the Button reference either - isn't he a perfect example of a driver getting lapped by his team-mate (literally - see 2012) when he can't find "the balance"..?

Perhaps it was poorly explained, but the Button reference was precisely that! Since the beginning he is the perfect example of a driver when the car is not to his liking. I mean, he was always known to have this characteristic unlike Raikkonen.

[Wallio]

The board has come around not only on Vettel, but on RBR as well, which lead me to believe that it was because of Riccardo and this being an Aussie site, but its not an Aussie site anymore so...I dunno

I guess it had more to do with Webber than Vettel (or Horner, or Riccardo). He was a god here (and other places) a fasiation I never understood for someone so overrated. His Minardi point perhaps? But now that he's gone, Vettel and RBR are "cool" again.

Helmut is still an arse, but even I think that, and I was always an RBR fan.

And as for the Kimi-Seb points thing, aren't they good friends off track? Kimi was probably much more comfortable this year, racing with his buddy. Much improved car aside.

[Rob Dylan]

I'm just gonna put my hand up and say I still don't like Vettel or Red Bull Racing, or the energy drink in general

[FullMetalJack]

I guess it had more to do with Webber than Vettel (or Horner, or Riccardo). He was a god here (and other places) a fasiation I never understood for someone so overrated. His Minardi point perhaps?

I think it's down to his early career performances, where he consistently dragged his cars much further up the grid than you can expect anyone to. I imagine his terrible luck, especially in 2006 endeared him to people more.

With Vettel, I think he was disliked simply because of the blatant favouritism Red Bull showed towards him. I don't remember him being disliked at all before then. I don't particularly like him now, although I don't hate him. It's more indifference, and of course admiration of his talent.

I still don't like Red Bull, even though I have liked many of their drivers over the years, such as Ricciardo now, I doubt that'll ever change.