The place for anything and everything else to do with F1 history, different forms of motorsport, and all other randomness
by Salamander 19 Dec 2017, 15:31
Gotta love the mental gymnastics required to give someone who was like half a point off winning the title in their debut season ROTY. Especially when you start by saying you had no expectations.

Klon wrote:I am most British
Normal32 wrote:i am most British

Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing I wouldn't be in Formula 1.
Everything's great.
I'm not surprised about anything.
by Simtek 19 Dec 2017, 16:02
Salamander wrote:Gotta love the mental gymnastics required to give someone who was like half a point off winning the title in their debut season ROTY. Especially when you start by saying you had no expectations.

He put Gasly on his F1 ROTY podium as well...
by Dj_bereta 19 Dec 2017, 16:51
To be frank, putting Gasly on the F1 ROTY podium isn't that crazy, especially after Helmut Marko saying Kvyat is better than the new Toro Rosso drivers. Although I think Hartley deserves it more.

Waiting for Lotus hiring Johnny Cecotto jr.
by Salamander 19 Dec 2017, 17:22
I do find some of the hate Gasly gets here really confusing though... I mean he seems like a good driver, certainly no Verstappen but probably capable of hacking it in the F1 midfield... but judging by the way some people complain about him you'd think he's the second coming of Yuji Ide.

Klon wrote:I am most British
Normal32 wrote:i am most British

Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing I wouldn't be in Formula 1.
Everything's great.
I'm not surprised about anything.
by Rob Dylan 19 Dec 2017, 21:21
I rate Gasly a solid all-right out of ten ;)

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by Wallio 22 Dec 2017, 18:02
USA Failing to quali for the World Cup, while certainly rejectful, is the best thing that could ever happen. We play in the weakest region on the planet, and when we steam-roll into the cup, expectations get too high. Now, we at least know we're not that good, and are going to get a new soccer prez to hopefully tear the whole thing down and start over.

Yes, we are still saddled by the third-tier (at best) MLS, but soccer will hopefully be on its way up in the run to 2022. Of course they have been telling us that since 1994, but still...

The Unquestioned, Undisputed Holder of the Title of World's Fastest Historian

"What are you gonna say? The guy raced against two cars last year and finished second so I don't think I can say a lot about him" - Tony Kanaan about Lewis Hamilton
by yannicksamlad 02 Jan 2018, 12:45
Rob Dylan wrote:Rob Dylan's Officially Unofficial 2017 F2 Reject Of The Year Podium
3rd - Jordan King: started off the season as a promising challenger for the world championship, but just how quickly that dissolved! Finished the season barely ahead of his teammate, the not-exactly-highly-rated Sette Camara, who ended up winning a race! It felt like he spent the whole season trundling around in the midfield, and never actually getting anywhere. When he started having regular incidents from about Hungary onwards, he had lost all hopes of saving his season.
2nd - Johnny Cecotto Jr.: One of those drivers who caused so much trouble and gave so many memories in such a small amount of time. By something of a miracle, he got a podium at Monaco in the sprint race, but that's the singular positive to his season. I was not at all surprised that he got replaced after Baku - that crash coming out of the pitlane was Coulthard-level shenanigans.
1st - Ralph Boschung: My goodness, I had something of a pet hate for this guy over the F2 season this year. An absolute menace on the track, it seemed he couldn't overtake without hitting someone. Ironically his strongest weekend for points was, in my opinion, his craziest and weakest, at Baku. He was very unreliable except in the expectation that he would hit somebody, and even Lando Norris in his first race for the team was on the same pace in his car. Sorry, Ralph, but you were clearly the Reject of the Year in my opinion.

Honourable mentions
Now these are interesting. There were quite a few people on the border of Rejectdom this year, but a surprising number of them ended up winning races, which made me hesitant in being able to pick them! But I'll put them here anyway - they're not getting away that easily.

- Nabil Jeffri: certainly wins my award for Anonymous Stint of the Year for this series. Don't you remember all those things he did?
- Sérgio Sette Câmara: Not only did he win in Spa, but he was on the podium the following weekend at Monza! Incredible. That's all that saved him from my nomination. Instead of being like King and trundling around the midfield, Sette Câmara was trundling around the back. But he sure as hell made up for it. And that brings me along to...
- Antonio Fuoco: Boy, oh boy, was I tempted to place him as Reject of the Year. He is so very, very lucky that the shenanigans at Monza occurred when they did so as to inherit that win. He was woefully off the pace of his teammate. I'd at least understand if he wasn't as good as Leclerc - I mean, nobody was! - but he could at least have picked up more than two points after the first eight races! His pace picked up in the last few races, but it was far too little too late, and Prema lost an easy Teams Championship win due to this pillock. Go home Antonio and think about what you've done.
- Alexander Albon: I hear he partnered Leclerc last year? Like King, he was touted as one of the title favourites, and was mostly uncompetitive. It's a shame that he had that injury to miss Baku, and it does feel a little bad to place him in this list due to forces outside of his control. But, regardless, he was pretty disappointing, and Matsushita was definitely the stronger of the ART drivers this season. Albon had better be hoping for a better season next year if he wants a chance at anything greater.


I really enjoyed reading Rob's views on the F2 runners.
Personally I'd excuse Albon a little - he had an undiagnosed chassis problem for a few races , and I thought he held up well against his team mate.
I'd also excuse Johnny Cecotto a little; he was only with Rapax, and at Monaco he had a (differential?) issue to spoil his sprint race, and had looked pretty good on pace. I assume he ran out of money - it was a very late deal that got him the place.
Jordan King ; yes he was disappointing, but also unlucky- other people ran into him, and his engine blew in races where otherwise he'd have a good result ( probably) - Abu Dhabi sprint, Silverstone sprint, Jerez sprint . But yes, MP arent top-rank perhaps, but we thought he'd do better, and that Manor F1 opportunity seems a long time ago now.

I think my choices for underachievers would be - Nabil Jeffri ( although hampered by Trident really struggling ) who was nearly always no higher than 17th fastest, and Santino Ferrucci (similarly hampered) but who comes with an F1 team tie-up and a lot of hype, but was barely faster than Nabil and arrived after failing to overcome the DAMS GP3 deficiencies . Santino only got points when everyone else lost their way , and was only a squeak faster than Nabil on several occasions .
If I had to pick a second Vice-champion I'd go for Visoiu over Ralph Boschung if only because he had some experience and the experience of 2018 was so demoralising for him it seems he retired from racing without finishing the season. Which was sad - he's not old.

I really cannot work out Sette Camara - who was nowhere...until suddenly he was quite quick , or even ...quick!
But that's F2/GP2/GP2/11 Dallara on Pirellis when the field is pretty close.

Looking forward to 22 cars on the grid in 2018 and more races too . Hope the new car allows overtaking like the GP2/11 did

I started supporting Emmo in 1976 (3 points )....missed 75, 74, 73, 72...
by yannicksamlad 02 Jan 2018, 13:34
Rob Dylan wrote:Rob Dylan's Officially Unofficial GP3 Reject Of The Year Podium
3rd - Marcos Siebert: With the exception of a lucky 4th in Monza, Siebert has had a disaster of a season in GP3 this year. Regularly caught up in incidents, and one of those drivers where "when they show a replay of him, you know it's going to be exciting". That's not a good thing.
2nd - Tatiana Calderón: This was her second full season in GP3, and she was one of the very last of the drivers to get on the scoreboard over the season. She's one of the oldest drivers on the grid, and by now should have the experience and racing know-how both inside and outside of the series to do well against the GP3 crowd. With the exception of a few late-season grabs, a dismal season.
1st - Steijn Schothorst: a driver whose name I never heard outside of "bringing up the rear is..." and the occasional backmarker incident of no note to the outcome of the race. There were a few times that he was racing around the points region, but almost every time he was erratic, and just didn't grasp any of his many opportunities to shine this year. Reject of the Year in my opinion.
.


Thanks again to Rob for his entertaining opinions.
It does seem a bit harsh to label anyone a reject in a junior formula, when they may simply be developing at their own rate, but we all enjoy a good 'ranking', and someone comes at the bottom...so

I wont quibble with the choice for first - Schothorst must have disappointed himself ( and Giedo) with his performances this year.
I thought Tatiana shaded Bruno Baptista this year in the generally 'lost' DAMS set up ( did they pack up early, knowing they werent coming back next year- it seemed they barely bothered to start) and Dan Ticktum's most impressive achievement was in making the DAMS qualify in the top five, when Tatiana had only just broken in to the top 10 in the previous race. DAMS really struggled - but I though Bruno Baptista was more of a disappointment.
Marcos Siebert..or Kevin Joerg who was in a Trident ? Or Santino Ferrucci? I think I'd go for Joerg over Marcos ; Kevin was in a Trident and has some experience , and was just that little bit outside the points pace ..

I was disappointed that Leo Pulcini didnt contest for podiums regularly - I really thought his pace in a F3 meant he'd be up there regularly. Maybe its those peaky Pirellis..But it wasnt a disaster.

I do enjoy a bit of GP3 ( though not as good as F2) , and I do hope the new merged GP/F3 keeps a car with the horsepower of the current GP3 machine

I started supporting Emmo in 1976 (3 points )....missed 75, 74, 73, 72...
by Samster 04 Jan 2018, 04:14
Just finished up re-watching the 2007 Champcar season on YouTube. My individual ROTR awards are in the ROTR outside F1 thread. Here are my picks for ROTY podium.

Dishonorable Mentions

Katherine Legge and Alex Figge - Comfortably the weakest drivers of the season, Figge only had a small handful of races where he didn't spin at least once while Legge struggled in her sophomore season with the underfunded Dale Coyne Racing while her teammate Bruno Junqueira put in some great underdog performances and nearly made the top five in points.

Forsythe Racing - Having been Newman-Haas Racing's biggest threat for the previous four seasons, they struggled massively with the new Panoz DP01 particularly on the road courses. Not only that but Gerald Forsythe made a mess of running the team in what turned out to be their final full season, laying off nearly half his staff initially intending on running just one car before bringing back a driver last minute that they sacked less than 12 months prior in Mario Dominguez for his Mexican $$$. A few races later Mario was gone in favour of Servia who dragged some good results out of the car before dropping him for the last two races for David Martinez because they needed a Mexican driver to meet the series contract with the Mexico City race.

3rd - Paul Tracy - Paul Tracy's final full season was probably the worst of his career asides from his previously mentioned 1998 disaster. It started out okay where he contended with Will Power for the win at Las Vegas but a slow speed crash at Long Beach oddly injured him enough to put him out for two races. When he returned for Portland it was clear Forsythe were struggling with the new DP01 and surprisingly despite his experience and reputation with setting cars up, Tracy was faring worse than Servia. From there his only bright spot was a lucky win at Cleveland after breaking two front wings early in the race, his resulting alternate strategy just happened to land him in the lead thanks to some well timed SCs. After that it was back to either struggling near the back or crashing out while Servia at least managed to drag the car to some half-decent results even challenging for victory at Toronto and San Jose.

2nd - Dan Clarke - A quick glance at my ROTR nominations post will tell you all you need to know about his season. After his debut season in 2006 where he quickly gained a reputation for being fast but erratic, 2007 saw him make Pastor Maldonado look squeaky clean with a series of ridiculous collisions culminating in a weekend ban at Zolder. I've given him no less than four ROTR awards out of 14 and that doesn't even include what he did to get banned at Zolder. Its no surprise he never got a ride in Indycar after the merger.

1st - Champcar Itself - After three rebuilding seasons since CART's bankruptcy and OWRS's rescue deal, 2007 was meant to be the breakout season with the new Panoz DP01 intended to cut costs and increase car counts. Instead the Panoz turned out to not be much cheaper than the old Lolas and as a result despite gaining one new team car counts were actually one short of the previous seasons. Then there was the schedule issues with no less than three races getting cancelled for various reasons. By the end of the season the series was on its last legs and 2008 was in serious doubt leading to the incredibly rushed merger with the IRL for that season. A massive shame, if the series had managed to survive for one more season it could have had a solid send off year while planning a proper merge for 2009, with Bourdais moving on the championship would have been wide open between the likes of Power, Wilson and Doornbos. And it would have been likely that more of the classic venues would have made it into Indycar had they been able to hold for a final season and allowed the teams a more smooth transition. Instead the merger was more of an absorption with only a small handful of old CART races making it into the merged series. Only now a decade later are some of these races reappearing on the Indycar schedule.

by mario 04 Jan 2018, 20:40
Salamander wrote:I do find some of the hate Gasly gets here really confusing though... I mean he seems like a good driver, certainly no Verstappen but probably capable of hacking it in the F1 midfield... but judging by the way some people complain about him you'd think he's the second coming of Yuji Ide.

I don't think that he is really hated here, more that there is something of a sense of indifference towards him. I'll be honest, I kind of fall into the camp of those who are a indifferent towards him - there are some who really hype him up, but personally I would agree more with what Rob Dylan says (i.e. that he is solid enough, but not a particularly exceptional driver) and feel that he is a little overhyped in terms of performance.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by CarloSpace 05 Aug 2018, 12:31
yannicksamlad wrote:Yes- Mario Haberfeld ! He was going to BE something....and then got to F3000 and really wasnt

Has anyone ever discovered any reason why he sucked so much in F3000, especially in 1999? Obviously all I've seen of the season have been some races and season review some years ago but I don't remember reading/hearing a reason for his struggles. It's just unbelievable to me that a reigning British F3 champion could barely qualify fro races in a leading team while his teammate basically dominates the series.

In hindsight though, the quality of drivers in British F3 of the late-90's wasn't that great anyway...
by 1993DonningtonNo1Mk2 24 Aug 2018, 12:29
CarloSpace wrote:
yannicksamlad wrote:Yes- Mario Haberfeld ! He was going to BE something....and then got to F3000 and really wasnt

Has anyone ever discovered any reason why he sucked so much in F3000, especially in 1999? Obviously all I've seen of the season have been some races and season review some years ago but I don't remember reading/hearing a reason for his struggles. It's just unbelievable to me that a reigning British F3 champion could barely qualify fro races in a leading team while his teammate basically dominates the series.

In hindsight though, the quality of drivers in British F3 of the late-90's wasn't that great anyway...


Those who claimed the Championship maybe, those who claim close however, some of them were odd exceptions.
by RonDenisDeletraz 29 Aug 2018, 01:55
Not sure if this is strictly the place for this but couldn't think of anything better

Was randomly looking through some recent Sheffield Shield stats and I have came to the conclusion Alex Doolan is the Jean-Pierre Jabouille of cricket. In 2016-17 he made a fine 202 not out, but didn't pass 50 in his 13 other innings that season. Last season was similar as he made 247, and his next highest score was about 80odd. Real rocks or diamonds stuff.

aerond wrote:Yes RDD, but we always knew you never had any sort of taste either :P

tommykl wrote:I have a shite car and meme sponsors, but Corrado Fabi will carry me to the promised land with the power of Lionel Richie.
by Aislabie 03 Sep 2018, 00:10
RonDenisDeletraz wrote:Not sure if this is strictly the place for this but couldn't think of anything better

Was randomly looking through some recent Sheffield Shield stats and I have came to the conclusion Alex Doolan is the Jean-Pierre Jabouille of cricket. In 2016-17 he made a fine 202 not out, but didn't pass 50 in his 13 other innings that season. Last season was similar as he made 247, and his next highest score was about 80odd. Real rocks or diamonds stuff.

In that case, Keaton Jennings is the Giancarlo Baghetti of cricket - got dead lucky and cashed in with a hundred on debut. Has done absolutely nothing of value since as his stock gradually diminishes, and gets more opportunities than someone of his ability usually would in the hope that he can repeat that bit of beginner's luck

by 1993DonningtonNo1Mk2 02 Oct 2018, 21:45
Now that the 2018 BTCC is over, here's my ROTY podium for that series:

ROTY: Jason Plato - I said last year he's been getting worse since he started driving the Subaru but seriously, what the heck happened to him this year? One lousy podium and only 3 other points finishes while his team-mate achieves the most wins of the record 17 different winners? THE KEYS, JASON! HANG'EM UP! HANG'EM UP I SAY!

2nd: Team HARD - The ugly affair with Jake Hill losing his seat and unable to switch to the AMD MG plus the constant chopping and changing of drivers would never have done any team's cause any good, at least Tony Gilham didn't run as many drivers over the course of the season as he did in 2013.

3rd: Sam Smelt - The only driver to contest every round and not score, he's no Ant Whorton-Eales but still...

Dis-Honourable Mentions:

Sam Tordoff's luck prior to Silverstone.
Rob Austin's luck at everywhere besides Brands Hatch.
James Cole for his anonymity compared to his team-mates.
Stephen Jelley, I honestly thought he'd fare better this year in the BMW than he did in the Focus last year, alas not, his cause not helped by the number of times there was contact involving him or Turks punting him off at Knockhill when they were fighting over a podium position.
by dr-baker 03 Oct 2018, 16:39
1993DonningtonNo1Mk2 wrote:Now that the 2018 BTCC is over, here's my ROTY podium for that series:

ROTY: Jason Plato - I said last year he's been getting worse since he started driving the Subaru but seriously, what the heck happened to him this year? One lousy podium and only 3 other points finishes while his team-mate achieves the most wins of the record 17 different winners? THE KEYS, JASON! HANG'EM UP! HANG'EM UP I SAY!

Would have to agree with this. Matt Neal has not had the greatest of seasons, but may well be a result of an uber-competitve grid and the car not being as dominant, but he still was winning races, including the Snetterton Double Diamond. But Plato is a shadow of his former self, and he cannot possibly blame the car.

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by 1993DonningtonNo1Mk2 03 Oct 2018, 19:33
dr-baker wrote:
1993DonningtonNo1Mk2 wrote:Now that the 2018 BTCC is over, here's my ROTY podium for that series:

ROTY: Jason Plato - I said last year he's been getting worse since he started driving the Subaru but seriously, what the heck happened to him this year? One lousy podium and only 3 other points finishes while his team-mate achieves the most wins of the record 17 different winners? THE KEYS, JASON! HANG'EM UP! HANG'EM UP I SAY!

Would have to agree with this. Matt Neal has not had the greatest of seasons, but may well be a result of an uber-competitve grid and the car not being as dominant, but he still was winning races, including the Snetterton Double Diamond. But Plato is a shadow of his former self, and he cannot possibly blame the car.


Well I'm glad to hear it, I don't dislike Jason but he's always moaning in some way or another, always! Even when he started and finished 2nd at Croft, he still moaned, even Matt Neal managed to win twice while developing a new-shape Civic and some drivers who won a race this year had struggled just to get into the points prior to this year. Even Collard Sr. managed 1 win before his accident! Sutton managed 6! So, in all honesty, what and where is the excuse, Jason?
by 1993DonningtonNo1Mk2 09 Nov 2018, 13:13
Samster wrote:Just finished up re-watching the 2007 Champcar season on YouTube. My individual ROTR awards are in the ROTR outside F1 thread. Here are my picks for ROTY podium.

Dishonorable Mentions

Katherine Legge and Alex Figge - Comfortably the weakest drivers of the season, Figge only had a small handful of races where he didn't spin at least once while Legge struggled in her sophomore season with the underfunded Dale Coyne Racing while her teammate Bruno Junqueira put in some great underdog performances and nearly made the top five in points.

Forsythe Racing - Having been Newman-Haas Racing's biggest threat for the previous four seasons, they struggled massively with the new Panoz DP01 particularly on the road courses. Not only that but Gerald Forsythe made a mess of running the team in what turned out to be their final full season, laying off nearly half his staff initially intending on running just one car before bringing back a driver last minute that they sacked less than 12 months prior in Mario Dominguez for his Mexican $$$. A few races later Mario was gone in favour of Servia who dragged some good results out of the car before dropping him for the last two races for David Martinez because they needed a Mexican driver to meet the series contract with the Mexico City race.

3rd - Paul Tracy - Paul Tracy's final full season was probably the worst of his career asides from his previously mentioned 1998 disaster. It started out okay where he contended with Will Power for the win at Las Vegas but a slow speed crash at Long Beach oddly injured him enough to put him out for two races. When he returned for Portland it was clear Forsythe were struggling with the new DP01 and surprisingly despite his experience and reputation with setting cars up, Tracy was faring worse than Servia. From there his only bright spot was a lucky win at Cleveland after breaking two front wings early in the race, his resulting alternate strategy just happened to land him in the lead thanks to some well timed SCs. After that it was back to either struggling near the back or crashing out while Servia at least managed to drag the car to some half-decent results even challenging for victory at Toronto and San Jose.

2nd - Dan Clarke - A quick glance at my ROTR nominations post will tell you all you need to know about his season. After his debut season in 2006 where he quickly gained a reputation for being fast but erratic, 2007 saw him make Pastor Maldonado look squeaky clean with a series of ridiculous collisions culminating in a weekend ban at Zolder. I've given him no less than four ROTR awards out of 14 and that doesn't even include what he did to get banned at Zolder. Its no surprise he never got a ride in Indycar after the merger.

1st - Champcar Itself - After three rebuilding seasons since CART's bankruptcy and OWRS's rescue deal, 2007 was meant to be the breakout season with the new Panoz DP01 intended to cut costs and increase car counts. Instead the Panoz turned out to not be much cheaper than the old Lolas and as a result despite gaining one new team car counts were actually one short of the previous seasons. Then there was the schedule issues with no less than three races getting cancelled for various reasons. By the end of the season the series was on its last legs and 2008 was in serious doubt leading to the incredibly rushed merger with the IRL for that season. A massive shame, if the series had managed to survive for one more season it could have had a solid send off year while planning a proper merge for 2009, with Bourdais moving on the championship would have been wide open between the likes of Power, Wilson and Doornbos. And it would have been likely that more of the classic venues would have made it into Indycar had they been able to hold for a final season and allowed the teams a more smooth transition. Instead the merger was more of an absorption with only a small handful of old CART races making it into the merged series. Only now a decade later are some of these races reappearing on the Indycar schedule.


I miss Champ Car a lot.
by Freeze-O-Kimi 12 Nov 2018, 20:35
Surprised no one has done the IndyCar 2018 nominations. I have a couple of candidates

Simon Pagenaud: Seemed like he just struggled to gel with the new car. Often the slowest of the Penske's on outright speed and struggled to impose himself in races. Finished 6th in the championship mainly because he could be counted on to finish in the top 10 consistently but just 2 podiums was a poor return

Ed Jones: Soooo Disappointing. After looking so dynamic in the Dale Coyne machine last year and finishing 3rd in the 500 I was really excited to see what he could do in the 2nd Ganassi car especially with the fact that the team cutting down from 4 cars to 2 should have given him more attention. Barring Long Beach, The Detroit weekend and to a lesser extent Gateway I saw very little in terms of outright pace from him culminating in a final placing of 13th while his team mate won the title. Overall I'm not surprised he lost his seat for 2019

Max Chilton: What on earth was that? Yes joining a new team in Carlin was always going to be a struggle but he's been here for 3 years now and apart from the 500 in 2017 he's made very little impression. Charlie Kimball in the 2nd Carlin utterly thrashed him and managed to drag some respectable results out including 5th at Toronto. Chilton didn't crack the top 10 all season

Will Power's inconsistancy: Yes he came 3rd overall, yes he finally won the Indy 500 but when he wasn't winning or finishing on the podium you could often find him spinning around or in the wall. It amounted to 6 finishes where he was 18th or lower including crashing at Phoneix, Alabama, Texas and Toronto all from strong results, And then there was the shambles at Portland with the sticking gearbox and another crash, That inconsistancy just won't win championships

Marie Dorin-Habert: 5 time World Champion. Love it

Ataxia wrote:
RonDenisDeletraz wrote:That makes sense, Klon lives in an alternate universe where Button is crap and Rubens is the second coming.


Whilst in reality, Rubens was just coming second.

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