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by UncreativeUsername37 21 Nov 2015, 18:54
Spectoremg wrote:Not sure if my thinking is clouded by the tragic absence of a French GP but I always liked Magny-Cours.
I also respect the French for standing up to the Greedy Martinet.

Yep, Magny-Cours is cool. The "it's a driving track, not a spectating track" argument is only ever used for circuits with long corners, but it works just as well for tighter ones.

Rob Dylan wrote:Mercedes paying homage to the other W12 chassis by breaking down 30 minutes in
by dr-baker 22 Nov 2015, 21:45
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
Spectoremg wrote:Not sure if my thinking is clouded by the tragic absence of a French GP but I always liked Magny-Cours.
I also respect the French for standing up to the Greedy Martinet.

Yep, Magny-Cours is cool. The "it's a driving track, not a spectating track" argument is only ever used for circuits with long corners, but it works just as well for tighter ones.

I'm not sure that I miss Magny-Cours in particular, but I certainly think that there ought to be a French Grand Prix on the calendar, along with Germany, Italy, Britain, Monaco and Belgium (specifically Spa). Maybe Spain too, as it does have a long history of having a championship round?

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
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MCard LOLA
by Wallio 01 Dec 2015, 20:32
Spectoremg wrote:Abu Dhabi's a cracking circuit.



While I wouldn't say cracking, it IS highly underrated, and very fun to drive in sims, FWIW. It's much better than Bahrain in everyway as well.

That being said, Turkey is still better than both.

Professional Historian/Retired Drag Racer/Hot Rod Builder/Whiskey & Cigar Enthusiast

"I've done the upside-down bit in one of these cars enough in my day!" - Martin Brundle Me too, Martin......me too.
by CoopsII 02 Dec 2015, 08:39
Whenever a discussion over good tracks and bad tracks begins it often seems to be based simply on a criteria of whether or not said tracks produce videogame-style racing or not. Thinking about the recent Abby Dabby race, which some have described as poor, as a TV spectator I felt pretty lucky to see the scenery of the location and the aesthetics of the track as much as the on-track action. Nice fireworks too. Equally, thinking back to the old Hockenheim, before it was turned into a cheap and nasty Scalextric track, watching the cars flood down the back straights was, to me at least, something a bit special. Same with Magny-Cours back in the day and Melbourne currently.

Just For One Day...
by Bobby Doorknobs 02 Dec 2015, 10:47
CoopsII wrote:Whenever a discussion over good tracks and bad tracks begins it often seems to be based simply on a criteria of whether or not said tracks produce videogame-style racing or not. Thinking about the recent Abby Dabby race, which some have described as poor, as a TV spectator I felt pretty lucky to see the scenery of the location and the aesthetics of the track as much as the on-track action. Nice fireworks too. Equally, thinking back to the old Hockenheim, before it was turned into a cheap and nasty Scalextric track, watching the cars flood down the back straights was, to me at least, something a bit special. Same with Magny-Cours back in the day and Melbourne currently.

I somewhat agree with this sentiment. As much as I hate Yas Marina as a race circuit, and this year's race was pretty standard for Abby Dabby, I've got to admit the back straight at least looks cool, especially with twenty-odd racing cars speeding down it.
by giraurd 02 Dec 2015, 11:47
My opinion must be unpopular here then, because the only thing I like about the Abu Dhabi track is the quality of racing it produces; it's got far too bad a rep due to 2010.

Everything else about it - the asphalt-filled visuals, the atmosphere, how much fun it's to drive around in sims - is way below-par in my opinion.

when you're dead people start listening
by Wallio 02 Dec 2015, 16:23
CoopsII wrote:Whenever a discussion over good tracks and bad tracks begins it often seems to be based simply on a criteria of whether or not said tracks produce videogame-style racing or not. Thinking about the recent Abby Dabby race, which some have described as poor, as a TV spectator I felt pretty lucky to see the scenery of the location and the aesthetics of the track as much as the on-track action. Nice fireworks too. Equally, thinking back to the old Hockenheim, before it was turned into a cheap and nasty Scalextric track, watching the cars flood down the back straights was, to me at least, something a bit special. Same with Magny-Cours back in the day and Melbourne currently.




People complain about Melbourne?

Professional Historian/Retired Drag Racer/Hot Rod Builder/Whiskey & Cigar Enthusiast

"I've done the upside-down bit in one of these cars enough in my day!" - Martin Brundle Me too, Martin......me too.
by CoopsII 02 Dec 2015, 17:59
Wallio wrote:People complain about Melbourne?

Not that I'm aware of.

Just For One Day...
by novitopoli 02 Dec 2015, 18:25
CoopsII wrote:
Wallio wrote:People complain about Melbourne?

Not that I'm aware of.

People complain about everything.

sw3ishida wrote:Jolyon Palmer brought us closer as a couple, for which I am grateful.


Ataxia wrote:
Londoner wrote:Something I've thought about - what happens to our canon should we have a worldwide recession or some other outside event?

We'll be fine. It's Canon, non Kodak.
by Bobby Doorknobs 02 Dec 2015, 19:10
novitopoli wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
Wallio wrote:People complain about Melbourne?

Not that I'm aware of.

People complain about everything.

I know there are people who would rather have Adelaide on the calendar instead of Melbourne, but even they mostly acknowledge Melbourne is a good track, at least as a season opener. If only we could have both to bookend the season :D

Though I'm not too sure if Adelaide would be good for the current F1.

2000th post!
by AndreaModa 03 Dec 2015, 00:32
Here's one I've been occasionally mulling over in the past few days:

F1 should return to a 16 race calendar.

Now whilst that in itself probably isn't much of an unpopular opinion, what would be unpopular is the sacrifices that would need to be made to ensure a 16 race calendar was representative, financially possible and attractive enough for partners/sponsors.

In my mind, a 16 race calendar would have to feature the following countries:
Australia (historical, popular, important market)
Brazil (historical, popular, important market)
Mexico (popular, important market)
USA (popular, important market)
Monaco (historical, popular)
Britain (historical, popular, important market)
Germany (historical, important market)
Italy (historical, popular, important market)
Russia (important market, financial contribution)
China (important market, financial contribution)
Japan (historical, popular, important market)
Abu Dhabi (financial contribution)

Leaving four races. I'd expect Singapore to feature, probably Bahrain for the money, and if Bernie was feeling generous, maybe Belgium or Canada. Hungary would probably get in as it tends to do well and is in a good market. Fringe races like Malaysia and Spain I'd expect to get the chop. So overall probably a few unhappy fans there!

Why should F1 drop to 16 races though? Because the current calendar is massively congested, and someone on the forum made a comment a few days ago saying that if there were fewer races, perhaps we'd appreciate them a bit more. I tend to agree with that. Over-saturation is bad news, and the more races there are, the more potential for "problems" to be identified with the sport. Fatigue sets in and the general "meh" or "can't be bothered" feeling takes hold. Everyone is excited at the start of the season, by the end of it, half the fans can't wait for it to be over. Less is more if you know what I mean, and patience is a virtue.

I want my MTV...Simtek Ford

My Motorsport Photos

@DNPQ_
by Aguaman 03 Dec 2015, 11:34
I think 20 races is perfect for F1.

I really don't get the love for Monza other than it's Ferrari ground. That being said I've watched F1 since like 2001, so eh.

It's fun to argue on Autosport Forums about crappy F1 opinions including mine. People get riled up so much, it's fun.

Renault's yellow or orange and white ING livery looks better than the Mild Seven livery.
by Wallio 03 Dec 2015, 16:36
AndreaModa wrote:Here's one I've been occasionally mulling over in the past few days:

F1 should return to a 16 race calendar.

Now whilst that in itself probably isn't much of an unpopular opinion, what would be unpopular is the sacrifices that would need to be made to ensure a 16 race calendar was representative, financially possible and attractive enough for partners/sponsors.

In my mind, a 16 race calendar would have to feature the following countries:
Australia (historical, popular, important market)
Brazil (historical, popular, important market)
Mexico (popular, important market)
USA (popular, important market)
Monaco (historical, popular)
Britain (historical, popular, important market)
Germany (historical, important market)
Italy (historical, popular, important market)
Russia (important market, financial contribution)
China (important market, financial contribution)
Japan (historical, popular, important market)
Abu Dhabi (financial contribution)

Leaving four races. I'd expect Singapore to feature, probably Bahrain for the money, and if Bernie was feeling generous, maybe Belgium or Canada. Hungary would probably get in as it tends to do well and is in a good market. Fringe races like Malaysia and Spain I'd expect to get the chop. So overall probably a few unhappy fans there!

Why should F1 drop to 16 races though? Because the current calendar is massively congested, and someone on the forum made a comment a few days ago saying that if there were fewer races, perhaps we'd appreciate them a bit more. I tend to agree with that. Over-saturation is bad news, and the more races there are, the more potential for "problems" to be identified with the sport. Fatigue sets in and the general "meh" or "can't be bothered" feeling takes hold. Everyone is excited at the start of the season, by the end of it, half the fans can't wait for it to be over. Less is more if you know what I mean, and patience is a virtue.


The only problem with that is there are massive gaps between races as it is, and less races would only make it worse. They would have to dump both the summer break and the huge break before the European season, and end the season earlier.

I ear they may end up in an Indycar situation, off for 6 months at a clip.

Professional Historian/Retired Drag Racer/Hot Rod Builder/Whiskey & Cigar Enthusiast

"I've done the upside-down bit in one of these cars enough in my day!" - Martin Brundle Me too, Martin......me too.
by Rob Dylan 03 Dec 2015, 16:51
Well if you go back to like 2001/2002, that was 17 races starting at the beginning of March and finishing at the middle/end of October with races at regular intervals. So keep the large summer break they currently have, have 16 races with the calendar beginning at the usual mid-March, and maybe add in a break between the flyaways and the European season, and you've got a March-November calendar.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by Aguaman 04 Dec 2015, 00:17
I guess if you open up to 16-17. That means you get a longer break and maybe some good testing. That might work but there's more to it I guess.
by Rob Dylan 04 Dec 2015, 10:46
Yeah, there was obviously regular testing even during the off-season in those years. With less races the teams would surely have a few more bucks to spend on testing and R&D during and between seasons?

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by Spectoremg 07 Dec 2015, 04:04
Wallio wrote:
Spectoremg wrote:Abu Dhabi's a cracking circuit.



While I wouldn't say cracking, it IS highly underrated, and very fun to drive in sims, FWIW. It's much better than Bahrain in everyway as well.

That being said, Turkey is still better than both.

Yep, Turkey was a good one too.
by More_Blue_Flags 14 Dec 2015, 10:15
Not only will Daniel Ricciardo never win a World Drivers Championship, but 2014 will be remembered as the high water mark of his career. He will only get the opportunity to win a handful of other races throughout the rest of his F1 career.

How can I say that about one of the most talented and exciting drivers on the grid, you ask? Quite simply, unless Dan stays with Red Bull in 2017 and they transform themselves with a new engine supplier, Dan won't get the chance to get into a car that gives him a reasonable shot at the title. His only two other realistic options for a championship winning car in 2017 (Ferrari and Mercedes) are likely to be blocked by Vettel and whichever of Hamilton/Rosberg stays, and any other team will be a sideways step at best. The longer he stays in the Red Bull family with a relatively uncompetitive car, Kvyat and Verstappen will be snapping closely enough at this heels to get Dr Marko's trigger finger itching and everyone else to start forgetting those phenomenal passes in 2014 and beginning to wonder what the fuss was all about. Once he leaves Red Bull, he will need a really lucky break to get into a team with a dominant car.

All of this will be a real shame and a waste of a massive talent, but there you go...

CoopsII wrote:Wouldnt it be lovely if just for once someone said "I really want to emulate Boutsen and get a decent, if not spectacular, result with some solid points".
by CoopsII 14 Dec 2015, 10:43
I'm not entirely convinced that the remaining Merc driver, whichever one that is (Hamilton), will have enough clout to veto the choice of Ricciardo if the Merc management decide they want him. I think his nationality may go against him,though, as the same management team would probably prefer a Kraut to partly underline their patriotic Kraut Kredentials.

As for fickle Ferrari? Who knows? I honestly wouldn't put it past them to take on Ricciardo if Vettel appears to go off the boil in 2016 as unlikely as I think that is.

Just For One Day...
by DanielPT 14 Dec 2015, 12:58
CoopsII wrote:I'm not entirely convinced that the remaining Merc driver, whichever one that is (Hamilton), will have enough clout to veto the choice of Ricciardo if the Merc management decide they want him. I think his nationality may go against him,though, as the same management team would probably prefer a Kraut to partly underline their patriotic Kraut Kredentials.


Would they want to have another Kraut being destroyed by Hamilton? They might like to avoid such ordeal to their countrymen.

Colin Kolles on F111, 2011 HRT challenger: The car doesn't look too bad; it looks like a modern F1 car.
by CoopsII 14 Dec 2015, 13:29
DanielPT wrote:
CoopsII wrote:I'm not entirely convinced that the remaining Merc driver, whichever one that is (Hamilton), will have enough clout to veto the choice of Ricciardo if the Merc management decide they want him. I think his nationality may go against him,though, as the same management team would probably prefer a Kraut to partly underline their patriotic Kraut Kredentials.


Would they want to have another Kraut being destroyed by Hamilton? They might like to avoid such ordeal to their countrymen.

Aah, so what you're saying is if the driver is going to be destroyed by Hamilton anyway they'd rather it happened to a different nationality? So what we're looking for is country that the Germans don't like. Hmm. All bets are off in that case.

Just For One Day...
by Rob Dylan 14 Dec 2015, 14:00
It's never really been made clear as to the influence the Mercedes drivers really have over the management. In Red Bull, Vettel's influence was obvious due to Helmut Marko's presence everywhere. But with Wolff's comments that sound like he's treating Nico and Lewis like two young rascals, I'm not sure how much influence one Mercedes driver might hold over such large team decisions. Even after two championships, Hamilton has never really come across as influential or a leader off the track.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by DanielPT 14 Dec 2015, 15:13
CoopsII wrote:Aah, so what you're saying is if the driver is going to be destroyed by Hamilton anyway they'd rather it happened to a different nationality? So what we're looking for is country that the Germans don't like. Hmm. All bets are off in that case.


Well, you have precisely one driver from one such country. It would be a mouthwatering pairing to be honest.

Colin Kolles on F111, 2011 HRT challenger: The car doesn't look too bad; it looks like a modern F1 car.
by Salamander 14 Dec 2015, 21:11
No driver is bigger than Ferrari. Not even Schumacher was. If Ferrari want Ricciardo, Ferrari will get Ricciardo. And given they pretty much had the choice of the field minus Ricciardo for 2016, and still stuck with Raikkonen, then it stands to reason that if they dump Raikkonen, it will be for Ricciardo.

Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing I wouldn't be in Formula 1.
Everything's great.
I'm not surprised about anything.
by mario 14 Dec 2015, 23:03
Rob Dylan wrote:It's never really been made clear as to the influence the Mercedes drivers really have over the management. In Red Bull, Vettel's influence was obvious due to Helmut Marko's presence everywhere. But with Wolff's comments that sound like he's treating Nico and Lewis like two young rascals, I'm not sure how much influence one Mercedes driver might hold over such large team decisions. Even after two championships, Hamilton has never really come across as influential or a leader off the track.

On the other hand, Jock Clear did give an interesting private talk recently where, according to one individual who attended it, he indicated that Hamilton was the more influential driver of the two behind the scenes. His opinion was that, out of the two, Hamilton was more effective in rallying the team behind him and utilising the working relationship that he could develop with a team to push them in a particular development direction. By contrast, Rosberg seemed to lack the necessary leadership skills to direct a team, leading Clear to say that he doesn't believe that Rosberg will win a drivers title.

However, in reality I do not think that either driver will have a huge amount of leverage over the team with regards to driver decisions. Out of the two, Hamilton may have a little leverage due to his marketability for Mercedes - however, as we saw with Williams in the 1990's when they were utterly dominant, when the team has a clear performance advantage, the team has much more leverage over the drivers than even a title winning driver may have over the team.

However, in the short term at least, why would Mercedes want to change their driver line up? Rosberg and Hamilton are in their early 30's and therefore likely to be competitive for a good few years yet, and at the moment tensions between Rosberg and Hamilton are still fairly easily contained.
Furthermore, Mercedes already have two young drivers - Wehrlein and Ocon - on their books, with speculation over whether Wehrlein may yet be apprenticed to Manor. In that sense, Ricciardo may, in a peculiar twist of fate, find that his chances at Mercedes may well be cut short by Mercedes adopting the same sort of junior team tactics that enabled Ricciardo to enter the sport in the first place.

As for Ferrari, as has been pointed out by Salamander, Ferrari are certainly not afraid of taking on a strong driver - they've thrown out many drivers who have tried to bend the team to their will. If they want a driver, it is usually a rare event that they don't get the one they want - Bottas perhaps being a rare exception, where Williams appear to have asked Ferrari for a compensation package that they were not prepared to pay.

Now, in Ferrari's case the need to replace Kimi is more pressing given that he is 36 and therefore unlikely to remain with the team for too much longer. However, if Ricciardo were to want to move, we know that Grosjean has already indicated that he is hoping to use Haas as a stepping stone to move to Ferrari, whilst I imagine that figures like Hulkenberg still haven't yet given up on Ferrari either - so, at the very least, Ricciardo would probably face a crowded field.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by Klon 15 Dec 2015, 03:19
Dj_bereta wrote:Most of these traditional circuits needs to be removed from F1. This year proved once more Monza and Monaco circuits are failing in producing good races. Interlagos only have good races with rain. The races in dry conditions were boring, like in this year, 2014, 2013, 2011 and 2010. Silverstone is much more a miss than a hit.


While I don't agree that they need to be removed (mostly because I consider for an actual World Championship the variety of tracks more important than their ability to provide good races and many classical tracks are the only extreme tracks left on the calendar), I agree with your general point. There is nothing more overvalued in motorsports than tradition.

by Spectoremg 15 Dec 2015, 04:48
There's nothing wrong with the circuits - send the BTCC around them and you'd have good racing! It's the total dominance of a single team that's making things boring.
by AndreaModa 15 Dec 2015, 10:57
Klon wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:Most of these traditional circuits needs to be removed from F1. This year proved once more Monza and Monaco circuits are failing in producing good races. Interlagos only have good races with rain. The races in dry conditions were boring, like in this year, 2014, 2013, 2011 and 2010. Silverstone is much more a miss than a hit.


While I don't agree that they need to be removed (mostly because I consider for an actual World Championship the variety of tracks more important than their ability to provide good races and many classical tracks are the only extreme tracks left on the calendar), I agree with your general point. There is nothing more overvalued in motorsports than tradition.


You'd be surprised. Prestige and history sells. Given the choice, a customer will always choose the established brand that they're familiar with over something new and untested.

I want my MTV...Simtek Ford

My Motorsport Photos

@DNPQ_
by FullMetalJack 11 Jan 2016, 10:18
Pierluigi Martini is not underrated. I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but everyone i've ever discussed F1 with (mostly you lot) acknowledges just how good he is, so he can't be underrated. The most underrated driver of that 'era' is Nicola Larini or Alex Caffi.

I like the way Snrub thinks!
by mario 11 Jan 2016, 21:20
FullMetalJack wrote:Pierluigi Martini is not underrated. I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but everyone i've ever discussed F1 with (mostly you lot) acknowledges just how good he is, so he can't be underrated. The most underrated driver of that 'era' is Nicola Larini or Alex Caffi.

That point, I think, is a bit of an issue - in the most tactful way, we are not exactly typical F1 fans and are therefore more inclined to regard figures like Martini in a more positive light than the rest of the F1 press might.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by RonDenisDeletraz 13 Jan 2016, 12:44
mario wrote:
FullMetalJack wrote:Pierluigi Martini is not underrated. I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but everyone i've ever discussed F1 with (mostly you lot) acknowledges just how good he is, so he can't be underrated. The most underrated driver of that 'era' is Nicola Larini or Alex Caffi.

That point, I think, is a bit of an issue - in the most tactful way, we are not exactly typical F1 fans and are therefore more inclined to regard figures like Martini in a more positive light than the rest of the F1 press might.

What mario says is true, most F1 fans seem to think of him as another in the long list of Minardi Pay drivers, if they remember him at all. But he was far better than that.

aerond wrote:Yes RDD, but we always knew you never had any sort of taste either :P

tommykl wrote:I have a shite car and meme sponsors, but Corrado Fabi will carry me to the promised land with the power of Lionel Richie.
by FullMetalJack 13 Jan 2016, 12:49
RonDenisDeletraz wrote:
mario wrote:
FullMetalJack wrote:Pierluigi Martini is not underrated. I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but everyone i've ever discussed F1 with (mostly you lot) acknowledges just how good he is, so he can't be underrated. The most underrated driver of that 'era' is Nicola Larini or Alex Caffi.

That point, I think, is a bit of an issue - in the most tactful way, we are not exactly typical F1 fans and are therefore more inclined to regard figures like Martini in a more positive light than the rest of the F1 press might.

What mario says is true, most F1 fans seem to think of him as another in the long list of Minardi Pay drivers, if they remember him at all. But he was far better than that.


I get where you're both coming from. I guess it's because the only people I know of who are aware of Martini are all aware that he was great.

I like the way Snrub thinks!
by MorbidelliObese 13 Jan 2016, 13:46
I remember, before getting fed up with the place and leaving, replying to a post on the Autosport forums that - and I can't remember the exact topic or how it got to this post - but named Martini in a list of early-to-mid-90s no-hopers/pay drivers. Then again I wasn't the only replier to call them out on it so it may have been in a minority even there.

Going back to the original post, Caffi is a good shout though, my general thought of him is along the lines of "promising at Dallara before flopping so hard at Arrows he ended up (non-)driving an Andrea Moda and out of F1", but analysing it more, he never completed a full season during his 2 years with them due to missing the odd race with injuries (so how often would he have been at 100% when he actually was driving?), then the fact that he wasn't exactly blown away by Alboreto, who maybe people thought was washed up but proved in 1992 he still had it, and the whole Porsche mess of 1991 that did nobody any favours.. I guess promising career momentum has been killed by a lot less.

Darling fascist bully boy, give me some more money you bastard. May the seed of your loin be fruitful in the belly of your woman.
by GerhardTalger 20 Jan 2016, 08:45
I do have to say I think people either underrate or overrate Martini, for all that he has done he should have deserved a sup top drive, but if he, for instance, had taken the Ferrari seat in 92, he would have done as worse as Capelli, I think.

In that light, there has been no exceptional Italian driver in F1 since Ascari. (Maybe Musso or Castelotti) Even the top names of the 80's, 90's and 00's weren't spectacular. They had a lot of very decent midfield runners who made some good jumps to the top teams, but all wasted space as second drivers there.

Yeah, Alboreto, but the guy was beaten by Gerhard Berger two years in a row, who in itself wasn't spectacular, and had problems with Johansson to boot. Another one of those 'very fine midfield runners who just lack it in the top'
by RonDenisDeletraz 20 Jan 2016, 12:18
On a related note, I have always thought Lorenzo Bandini could well have been champion one day if not for his death

aerond wrote:Yes RDD, but we always knew you never had any sort of taste either :P

tommykl wrote:I have a shite car and meme sponsors, but Corrado Fabi will carry me to the promised land with the power of Lionel Richie.
by giraurd 20 Jan 2016, 12:59
Yeah, the lack of great Italian drivers post-Alberto Ascari is odd indeed, especially given that Italy had so many legendary GP drivers before him: Nazzaro, Campari, Ascari sr, Varzi, Nuvolari, Fagioli, Farina -- after Alberto, the few legendary Italian motorsport figures, Agostini and Rossi, were motorbike riders. Perhaps it's got something to do with the Ferrari influence, I don't know - at least Fabi and Zanardi really came alive when they left Europe...

(ed. and Mario, obviously :P )

As mentioned above, you could speculate with what could have been of Castellotti, Musso, Bandini, de Angelis - but to me, each of them gives the same Alboreto-Trulli-Fisichella vibe, really: all very fine and talented drivers but perhaps would have lacked the sharp cutting edge even given the opportunity in a good car.

when you're dead people start listening
by MorbidelliObese 20 Jan 2016, 13:33
Alboreto has always seemed a weird one to me in that he seemed to peak spectacularly early. Impressive (and race winner) in a Tyrrell, not only that but once he did get an opportunity at Ferrari he actually took it initially - leading first time out before mechanical failure, winning third time out, and when the car was even better the following year won more races and took a tilt at the title (plus that Monaco drive). But the next three seasons rather than kicking on he seemed to go in reverse.

And then as I mentioned before having a mini revival with a string of solid performances and results for Footwork in 1992, and the preceding seasons really can't be put against him (or Caffi) with how uncompetitive the car was.

In contrast with say Mansell who started (give or take a few races) his F1 career at the same time, started relatively underwhelmingly, but just seemed to get better and better and better and better.

Darling fascist bully boy, give me some more money you bastard. May the seed of your loin be fruitful in the belly of your woman.
by Wallio 20 Jan 2016, 15:30
FullMetalJack wrote: The most underrated driver of that 'era' is Nicola Larini .



(Stands and Applauds) YES! I've been saying this for years.

Professional Historian/Retired Drag Racer/Hot Rod Builder/Whiskey & Cigar Enthusiast

"I've done the upside-down bit in one of these cars enough in my day!" - Martin Brundle Me too, Martin......me too.
by novitopoli 20 Jan 2016, 18:43
Wallio wrote:
FullMetalJack wrote: The most underrated driver of that 'era' is Nicola Larini .



(Stands and Applauds) YES! I've been saying this for years.


Christian Fittipaldi is fairly underrated too IMHO. He probably would have deserved to have a shot at better teams.

sw3ishida wrote:Jolyon Palmer brought us closer as a couple, for which I am grateful.


Ataxia wrote:
Londoner wrote:Something I've thought about - what happens to our canon should we have a worldwide recession or some other outside event?

We'll be fine. It's Canon, non Kodak.

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