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by Bobby Doorknobs 27 Nov 2017, 14:05
To be honest, I think Hartley's junior series results are completely irrelevant at this point: He's not the same driver now that he was when he was 21. The question is really how far he's come since then. Toro Rosso has had a disastrous end to the season which has compromised both drivers' abilities to get good results, but my initial impression of Brendon Hartley the F1 driver is fairly positive on the whole, if leaving very little to go on.
by yannicksamlad 28 Nov 2017, 11:14
Simtek wrote:To be honest, I think Hartley's junior series results are completely irrelevant at this point: He's not the same driver now that he was when he was 21.


That is very true. And yes let's see what happens over full season ( if he has full season) .. But honestly - his WEC driving shows he's good enough in a car with a roof, but that's not the same as his speed in a single seater. And his 2017 GP showings have seen him tooling around at the back , struggling to put laps together . OK - with engine penalties who knows how hard the Toro Rosso boys have been trying in quallie, but to me Gasly has shown flashes of speed in F1 and has excellent GP2 and Super Formula credentials. He looks a far better bet.
Let's see , but I still think 3/4 of the F2 field would do just as well....(until proven wrong)

I started supporting Emmo in 1976 (3 points )....missed 75, 74, 73, 72...
by Rob Dylan 28 Nov 2017, 16:24
I'd definitely agree that Hartley's seat is not nearly as safe as Gasly's. Though it probably took him a little longer than he would have liked, Gasly is now in Formula 1 and driving for Toro Rosso. It must be a dream for him as he knows he's in that preferential Toro Rosso seat for at least 2018 and possible 2019-20 as well. At least history shows us that he's got a few safe years while Red Bull search for more juniors, and Pierre must be thanking his lucky stars that there's almost no-one around in the Red Bull Junior Programme to replace him.

Hartley's a lot older, and was put in as a stopgap measure. Although I don't think he's any better or worse than Gasly, he'll have to do a lot better than Pierre to justify being kept. Even so, I can imagine he might end up like Vergne or Buemi, and just lose his seat because someone younger has come along.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
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by Dj_bereta 28 Nov 2017, 19:30
This led to another unpopular opinion: Toro Rosso only picked Harthley because Red Bull lack of options due the super license points. I'm going even further to say TR might had given Newgarden a chance if Harthley wasn't available, considering Indycar season ended before Kvyat getting kicked out.

Waiting for Lotus hiring Johnny Cecotto jr.
by mario 28 Nov 2017, 21:12
Dj_bereta wrote:This led to another unpopular opinion: Toro Rosso only picked Harthley because Red Bull lack of options due the super license points. I'm going even further to say TR might had given Newgarden a chance if Harthley wasn't available, considering Indycar season ended before Kvyat getting kicked out.

I agree that there probably was an element of Red Bull having to cast around for a replacement because it was difficult to find an alternative driver with a superlicence and at least some sort of link to their team.

What probably compounded those issues was the desire to promote from within their own ranks, but their junior team has gone through a rather fallow season - the number of drivers that they have hired does seem to have dropped off after 2014, and out of those that they did hire after that, Illott and Leeds have both been dropped, Lynn chose to go to Williams and Stoneman went firstly into the Indy Lights series and now races in the Blancpain GT series. The situation with Hartley highlighted that there was a generational gap in their programme, and it's something that they still have given they will probably still need a few years to train up new drivers.

I have a feeling that might have happened because Red Bull had become a bit complacent about their junior programme, since for a long time they were pretty much the only team that had an established system for bringing drivers into F1 and therefore could drive a hard bargain with prospective drivers.

These days, Ferrari, Renault, Mercedes, McLaren and even Williams have young driver programmes, whilst Force India and Sauber are effectively aligned with larger outfits (Mercedes and Ferrari respectively) to give opportunities to young drivers coming up through the ranks.

Where once Red Bull could easily pick whom they wanted, now they are having to compete against a much larger number of teams for new drivers, and those other teams have managed to get quite a few young drivers on their books. Mercedes have already managed to get Wehrlein and Ocon into F1 and Ferrari could well get both Leclerc and Giovinazzi onto the grid next year; meanwhile, Renault has Latifi and Rowland whilst McLaren managed to get Vandoorne into F1 and have Norris in the wings. Even Williams could draw on Lynn in principle (I think he's still affiliated with them), and I think they have some links with Ghiotto as well.

I wonder if Red Bull were a bit lax, given their past success, and that complacency let their rivals scoop up quite a few drivers who might, in the past, have signed for them, leaving Red Bull short of prospects when the time came for a change. Aligning themselves with Honda might give them access to some of their drivers, though Matsushita hasn't stunned the world in Formula 2 this year and might not be a prospect for a while.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by yannicksamlad 29 Nov 2017, 13:35
Dj_bereta wrote:This led to another unpopular opinion: Toro Rosso only picked Harthley because Red Bull lack of options due the super license points.


Good point - I think the superlicence criteria are far too harsh . Its quite stunning how few real options there were for Toro Rosso considering that there are only 20 F1 cars on the grid and there's loads of drivers who'd love an F1 chance. But they can't get one , because they don't have a superlicence.

If you get the same driver picking up the F3 , GP3 and F2 superlicence points in a series of years, then that's one driver with lots of points , and fewer opportunities for others. You can quickly see how the numbers of drivers are narrowed down. And looking at last years list Mitch Evans, Sam Bird dont qualify , and if Roberto Merhi didnt already have a licence, he wouldnt get one . These are decent drivers who'd do fine in F1. And so would a lot of other drivers .

GIving superlicence points for WTCC is fine , but that doesnt add to the pool of drivers with real F1 opportunities. With only 20 F1 seats the teams are likely to pick single seat drivers ..unless they find there aren't any.

I started supporting Emmo in 1976 (3 points )....missed 75, 74, 73, 72...
by CarloSpace 25 Feb 2018, 10:17
Red Bull camo livery is horrendous and looks dirty. Not nice at all.

McLaren's livery is sleek and beautiful.
by Wallio 27 Feb 2018, 16:01
CarloSpace wrote:Red Bull camo livery is horrendous and looks dirty. Not nice at all.

McLaren's livery is sleek and beautiful.


This! Both of these in fact. I don't understand the hate for the Macca. Only thing I'd change is the black on the turning vanes and halo I'd make blue. Thats it. People generally want a day-glo white Mclaren despite them running silver/grey far longer.

Professional Historian/Retired Drag Racer/Hot Rod Builder/Whiskey & Cigar Enthusiast

"I've done the upside-down bit in one of these cars enough in my day!" - Martin Brundle Me too, Martin......me too.
by TomWazzleshaw 28 Feb 2018, 08:34
yannicksamlad wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:This led to another unpopular opinion: Toro Rosso only picked Harthley because Red Bull lack of options due the super license points.


Good point - I think the superlicence criteria are far too harsh . Its quite stunning how few real options there were for Toro Rosso considering that there are only 20 F1 cars on the grid and there's loads of drivers who'd love an F1 chance. But they can't get one , because they don't have a superlicence.

If you get the same driver picking up the F3 , GP3 and F2 superlicence points in a series of years, then that's one driver with lots of points , and fewer opportunities for others. You can quickly see how the numbers of drivers are narrowed down. And looking at last years list Mitch Evans, Sam Bird dont qualify , and if Roberto Merhi didnt already have a licence, he wouldnt get one . These are decent drivers who'd do fine in F1. And so would a lot of other drivers .

GIving superlicence points for WTCC is fine , but that doesnt add to the pool of drivers with real F1 opportunities. With only 20 F1 seats the teams are likely to pick single seat drivers ..unless they find there aren't any.


Anyone who thinks the Superlicence criteria has made any difference is kidding themselves. It's done nothing to stop the likes of Celis, Gelael and King getting in F1 cars during Grand Prix weekends at the expense of the likes of Evans and Richie Stanaway. All it ultimately achieved was bury Formula Renault to oblivion right when it was at its peak as a feeder category

Biscione wrote:"Some Turkemenistani gulag repurposed for residential use" is the best way yet I've heard to describe North / East Glasgow.
by yannicksamlad 28 Feb 2018, 11:11
Wizzie wrote:
Anyone who thinks the Superlicence criteria has made any difference is kidding themselves. It's done nothing to stop the likes of Celis, Gelael and King getting in F1 cars during Grand Prix weekends at the expense of the likes of Evans and Richie Stanaway. All it ultimately achieved was bury Formula Renault to oblivion right when it was at its peak as a feeder category


Maybe that's a different point - I was saying that the Superlicence criteria and its effect (particularly with a limited number of drivers picking up a large percentage of the available points by appearing in multiple junior categories over the years) means that the chances for a driver to have a real F1 opportunity have decreased. Even if you are a reasonably competent driver, who would probably be respectable in an F1 race.
To me a run out in Friday free practice when you dont have anywhere near the number of points to start an F1 race isnt a real F1 opportunity. Mazepin doesnt have a real F1 opportunity, and similarly Celis. To be honest I dont mind them getting a run out in an F1 car- that sort of thing has happened for ever(?)- but what I dont like is that there are a lot of drivers who may have the potential to compete in an F1 race who realise there's no real chance of getting the Superlicence, and people like Evans, Marciello, Stoneman, Calado etc don't have a Superlicence and are eliminated from even being a possibility.
Perhaps the struggle to fill the F2 grid reflects the fact that a number of drivers have realised that their F1 dream is unrealistic and so why try to scrape together the money. Formula 3.5 V8/World Series etc - same thing

I started supporting Emmo in 1976 (3 points )....missed 75, 74, 73, 72...
by Aislabie 01 Mar 2018, 10:09
I really do miss the days of backmarker teams being full of crappy pay-drivers. I guess that's not a surprise - I'm a member of this forum after all - but I'm not even on about the heady days of pre-qualifying. 2012, with line-ups of Maldonado/Senna, Kovalainen/Petrov, de la Rosa/Karthikeyan and Glock/Pic propping up the grid, would do nicely for me.

It's not just pay-drivers though: I saw an article somewhere recently talking about how very few of the World Champions or Championship contenders in the last 20 years would have met the superlicence requirements as they currently stand.

So if you're stopping the drivers entering who are ready to support a team with their driving ability, and you block the drivers entering who are ready to support a team with their budget, then what exactly are you achieving?
by yannicksamlad 05 Mar 2018, 12:53
Aislabie wrote:
So if you're stopping the drivers entering who are ready to support a team with their driving ability, and you block the drivers entering who are ready to support a team with their budget, then what exactly are you achieving?


Completely agree! The Super Licence criteria as currently in place helps extend the careers of those who make it to F1... Seems to exclude rather too many people, and generally kills hope.

I started supporting Emmo in 1976 (3 points )....missed 75, 74, 73, 72...
by Rob Dylan 19 Apr 2018, 12:24
As some of you on the chat know, I'm slowly going back through old grands prix, and I've finally got back to watching Alesi's win in Canada 1995 (spoilers). I've made the argument before, and I'll make it again, that Alesi really should have had more wins in just the years 1995-1997, and threw away a bunch of opportunities due to incompetence, and sometimes bad luck. Even in his only win, he inherited from Schumacher's problems very close to the end.

Call this unpopular opinion, but at least from the years I've seen, I'm just going to say that Alesi wasn't all that great.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
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by good_Ralf 21 Apr 2018, 12:45
Although I'm a huge Alesi fan, I agree that Jean wasn't the best when it came to consistency and making big decisions. He had some really stupid moments ["Ohhhhhhhh Jean, you've got a major problem, sunshine!"] and perhaps he should've signed for Williams in 1990 (I feel he had the speed to win at least 2 titles there, if not 3 or 4), but I'm not going to judge someone for going with their heart as opposed to your head (not saying you're judging Alesi or anything, Rob!).
But even if going to Ferrari when he did was a bad career move, I still feel he was genuinely unlucky with car reliability, moreso than the likes of Mark Webber, for example. Perhaps Jean's driving style was the biggest contributor to the endless breakdowns which cost him at least half-a-dozen wins ("You make your own luck", as they say), but I can't help but feel the planets were unaligned with Jean more than most drivers. Perhaps I'm just biased, but in the end, there's NO DENYING that Alesi was fast, one of the quickest drivers F1 has ever seen imo. And he was a demon starter like few others have been (Britain 1995, Italy 1996)... yeah I might be biased here :D

Check out the position of the sun on 2 August at 20:08 in my garden

Allard Kalff in 1994 wrote:OH!! Schumacher in the wall! Right in front of us, Michael Schumacher is in the wall! He's hit the pitwall, he c... Ah, it's Jos Verstappen.
by Bobby Doorknobs 21 Apr 2018, 15:09
good_Ralf wrote:...and perhaps he should've signed for Williams in 1990 (I feel he had the speed to win at least 2 titles there, if not 3 or 4), but I'm not going to judge someone for going with their heart as opposed to your head...

I'm going to have to stop you right there, because this is the single most misrepresented story of Jean Alesi's motor racing career. Basically, Alesi didn't choose Ferrari over Williams for the romantic notion of driving for Il Cavallino Rampante.

He signed an agreement with Williams in early 1990, under which he would sign no contracts with any other team until September, with the promise of a three-year deal to drive for Williams in return. The reason no actual driving contract was offered initially was supposedly because Frank was waiting to see if he could entice the mercurial Senna from McLaren, or, if not him, Nigel Mansell.

The initial agreed announcement date of the French Grand Prix came and went without any word from Williams, by which time Alesi had already been to Maranello effectively trying to put together a 'plan B'. Luckily for him, Ferrari were interested. The next deadline for Alesi's possible announcement as a Williams driver was September, but this was starting to look unlikely, so at Silverstone he went to Ferrari to get a contract offer that would force Williams' hand. Frank didn't budge, Jean signed for Ferrari and in return Williams was compensated for Alesi's breach of contract with Prost's F1 car and a pile of cash.

As for Rob's question of Jean's driving abilities, I will agree that he was not the most consistent driver around - at least not in his Ferrari and Benetton days - but he was effing quick. I'd say he was a driver in the mold of a Watson or Reutemann - quickest man in Grand Prix racing sometimes, but with a lot of 'off days'. I don't know if you've gone as far back as 1990, but watch his Phoenix and Monaco races and you might see what all the fuss is about. As with any popular driver, there are quite a lot of people screaming that he was robbed of four world titles or something, but I think the general assessment of him is: Quick driver, loads of natural talent (emphasis because while you can have natural talent, it often needs to be tempered, and I think it took Alesi quite a long time to do that), unlucky, potential champion but only in the right car (say, the Williams FW14B in place of Mansell).
by good_Ralf 21 Apr 2018, 18:48
Wow, I didn't know the story to that amount of detail, that's interesting! :)

Check out the position of the sun on 2 August at 20:08 in my garden

Allard Kalff in 1994 wrote:OH!! Schumacher in the wall! Right in front of us, Michael Schumacher is in the wall! He's hit the pitwall, he c... Ah, it's Jos Verstappen.
by Rob Dylan 21 Apr 2018, 23:29
As I say, I'm basing my opinions as I go back in time through the years. On 1995, I haven't seen all of his years at Ferrari, nor his very early career.

I often think it would be funny for someone to do what I am doing from the present day, judging a driver such as Räikkönen in the same way. It's a little strange analysing these drivers the wrong way round, but then again, that's just how I'm doing it :D

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
Online
by Bobby Doorknobs 21 Apr 2018, 23:45
Rob Dylan wrote:As I say, I'm basing my opinions as I go back in time through the years. On 1995, I haven't seen all of his years at Ferrari, nor his very early career.

I often think it would be funny for someone to do what I am doing from the present day, judging a driver such as Räikkönen in the same way. It's a little strange analysing these drivers the wrong way round, but then again, that's just how I'm doing it :D

I remember on the F1 Fanatic forums way back someone did something similar to our BSMF championships by taking the results of a season and presenting them in the reverse order of how they were actually run. So, for example, 2017 would have had Abu Dhabi as round one, Brazil round two, Mexico round three etc. all the way to the final round in Australia. 2009 was kind of funny seeing Red Bull starting out strongest before Brawn suddenly develop an unstoppable car mid-season, and Ferrari and McLaren just go completely down the toilet!
by ibsey 28 Apr 2018, 21:05
I think another of Jean's problems was he wasn't great at the technical side of F1 preferring to driver around a problem instead spending time setting up a car. From what I've heard from ex-Benetton mechanics this is certainly true of Jean and the B196.

For me, I know he wasn't overrated having seen the lurid slides he hung on to when other's would have thrown the car into the scenery.

Coming January 2019 a new F1 book revisiting 1994.


Pre order it here; www.performancepublishing.co.uk/1994-th ... eason.html


The book's website; www.1994f1.com/
by Rob Dylan 29 Apr 2018, 19:00
I'm going to try not to bring this up in any other threads (even though I already have), so I'll just dump it here.

After four rounds, Verstappen should get benched for Spain at the very least. His performance in the first four rounds of 2018 is far worse than Kvyat's two years ago. Four foul races in a row, and I'd further argue that Ricciardo's driving has been the main reason those two haven't crashed more often, and indeed earlier on in Baku.

He won't get benched, and Red Bull show their double-standards at their worst.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
Online
by yannicksamlad 01 May 2018, 14:37
I'm not sure exactly where the line is drawn such that benching a driver is appropriate, and I do agree that Max's driving has been properly poor this season . I also agree that Ricciardo has done well to avoid Max and been more accommodating than Max should expect.

And of course Max wont be suspended by Red Bull. Although I assume they will privately tell him how much he cost the team.
Effectively then we are left in the hands of the FIA points on licence system to impose suspensions, and in theory I think its best to leave it to to the impartial authorities to impose the ultimate sanction. Except that the record of them giving penalty points suggests they can't be trusted to follow logic. There have been some very odd interpretations of what merits points on the licence..

I started supporting Emmo in 1976 (3 points )....missed 75, 74, 73, 72...
by good_Ralf 03 May 2018, 16:15
Don't know if it's genuinely unpopular or not, but I'll say it here: Nostalgia is doing Formula 1 more harm than good.

Check out the position of the sun on 2 August at 20:08 in my garden

Allard Kalff in 1994 wrote:OH!! Schumacher in the wall! Right in front of us, Michael Schumacher is in the wall! He's hit the pitwall, he c... Ah, it's Jos Verstappen.
by Ciaran 04 May 2018, 12:26
good_Ralf wrote:Don't know if it's genuinely unpopular or not, but I'll say it here: Nostalgia is doing Formula 1 more harm than good.

The F1 fandom needs more Memberberries memes. :deletraz:

Manager of Calsonic Team Impul in Formula E, K-Apex in PES & Eurasian F3 and Mitsuoka in Alt-F1 '76.
My career mode thread - 1988: AGS (19pts, 9th) // 1989: Arrows (25pts, 8th, 1 win!)
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by Bobby Doorknobs 04 May 2018, 12:54
Regenmeister94 wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Don't know if it's genuinely unpopular or not, but I'll say it here: Nostalgia is doing Formula 1 more harm than good.

The F1 fandom needs more Memberberries memes. :deletraz:

Member when there weren't any Mexicans on the grid?
by Rob Dylan 04 May 2018, 13:30
Member when there were Italians on the grid?

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
Online
by mario 04 May 2018, 20:25
Salamander wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Don't know if it's genuinely unpopular or not, but I'll say it here: Nostalgia is doing Formula 1 more harm than good.


That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

I definitely agree that the idealised fantasy that is often invoked is having a pretty damaging effect on the sport - mind you, by its nature that opinion will be most unpopular with those who are most guilty of that act in the first place.

Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
by FullMetalJack 05 May 2018, 12:06
Salamander wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Don't know if it's genuinely unpopular or not, but I'll say it here: Nostalgia is doing Formula 1 more harm than good.


That's not an opinion, it's a fact.


I like to be nostalgic about F1 in the past every now and again (who doesn't?), but I can see where you're coming from.

To be quite honest, I don't have much of a problem with how F1 is now; except the way the money is distributed and how it is even more difficult for small teams to survive.

I like the way Snrub thinks!
by Wallio 12 Jul 2018, 14:55
Que the paypayas, but I just don't get the hype behind Kvyat. He's quite liked on here and is a demi-god on the cesspool that is Reddit. I think RBR made the right choice honestly.

Professional Historian/Retired Drag Racer/Hot Rod Builder/Whiskey & Cigar Enthusiast

"I've done the upside-down bit in one of these cars enough in my day!" - Martin Brundle Me too, Martin......me too.
by Salamander 12 Jul 2018, 17:11
Wallio wrote:Que the paypayas, but I just don't get the hype behind Kvyat. He's quite liked on here and is a demi-god on the cesspool that is Reddit. I think RBR made the right choice honestly.


I completely agree - if you ever find the love for Kvyat unbearable, just point out that Max Verstappen won the first race he drove in what was Kvyat's car. That's my favourite way to deal with it.

Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing I wouldn't be in Formula 1.
Everything's great.
I'm not surprised about anything.
by Rob Dylan 12 Jul 2018, 18:03
I think a lot of it is behind the adversity that was shoved upon him that gained him those fans. Mark Webber had the same thing. A decent driver, but the underdog mentality built around them when Red Bull started doing more and more to support the other guy.

If you look at my posts from 2014, I thought Kvyat was far too erratic and not good enough, though he certainly got better. 2016 was surely the season he was going to challenge for a win eventually, and he had that opportunity wrenched away. That's why 2016 onwards I've been sympathetic to him and wanted him back. He was a solid driver---not world championship material, but then again very few are---who didn't deserve to be stifled on the eve of greatness.

On the subject of Verstappen winning in the same car, I would say that the double standards put by Red Bull on Max, which have been lenient after an absolute litany of mistakes on occasion don't do anything to endear the team to the public. To respond to Salamander's post, I suppose the question one has to ask themselves is

"If Kvyat were in that car in Spain 2016, would he have won that race?" And I think how you answer that depends on your view of the driver. Maybe he wouldn't have, but then again that race was certainly not ordinary.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
Online
by Bleu 13 Jul 2018, 19:08
It strikes out that Kvyat never finished better than 9th in Toro Rosso - including time before and after his stint at Red Bull.


As his team-mate:
Vergne 1x6., 2x8.
Sainz 1x4., 4x6., 3x7., 6x8.

At the time DK was driving Red Bull:
Verstappen 2x4., 1x6., 1x7., 4x8.
Sainz 1x7., 1x8.
by Aislabie 16 Jul 2018, 16:32
Wallio wrote:I think RBR made the right choice honestly.

Disagree. Jean-Eric Vergne should have got the 2015 seat.
by Salamander 16 Jul 2018, 16:41
Aislabie wrote:
Wallio wrote:I think RBR made the right choice honestly.

Disagree. Jean-Eric Vergne should have got the 2015 seat.


I think JEV's probably wound up better off for having being dumped, to be honest. At this point I think Red Bull have actually tossed away more future World Championships (albeit non-F1 championships) than they've actually won.

Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing I wouldn't be in Formula 1.
Everything's great.
I'm not surprised about anything.
by Rob Dylan 16 Jul 2018, 23:33
Salamander wrote:
Aislabie wrote:
Wallio wrote:I think RBR made the right choice honestly.

Disagree. Jean-Eric Vergne should have got the 2015 seat.


I think JEV's probably wound up better off for having being dumped, to be honest. At this point I think Red Bull have actually tossed away more future World Championships (albeit non-F1 championships) than they've actually won.
It's certainly looking that way. And I'm thinking just about Formula E, where we have Buemi and Vergne as champions now. What other series can we include?

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
Online
by CarloSpace 17 Jul 2018, 15:56
Rob Dylan wrote:
Salamander wrote:I think JEV's probably wound up better off for having being dumped, to be honest. At this point I think Red Bull have actually tossed away more future World Championships (albeit non-F1 championships) than they've actually won.
It's certainly looking that way. And I'm thinking just about Formula E, where we have Buemi and Vergne as champions now. What other series can we include?
WEC at least with Buemi, Hartley and Jani. Special mention for Mathias Lauda who won the GTE Am Trophy last year.
by Aislabie 19 Jul 2018, 21:50
I doubt it's a particularly controversial opinion, but I do wish that teams offering customer engines would rebadge them with the names of subsidiary marques. For example, imagine the following 2019 grid:
  • Mercedes
  • Force India-Maybach
  • Williams-Smart
  • Ferrari
  • Haas-Maserati
  • Sauber-Alfa Romeo
  • Renault
  • McLaren-Alpine
  • Red Bull-Honda
  • Toro Rosso-Acura
It'd be fun I think
by Butterfox 20 Jul 2018, 00:02
Aislabie wrote:I doubt it's a particularly controversial opinion, but I do wish that teams offering customer engines would rebadge them with the names of subsidiary marques. For example, imagine the following 2019 grid:
  • Mercedes
  • Force India-Maybach
  • Williams-Smart
  • Ferrari
  • Haas-Maserati
  • Sauber-Alfa Romeo
  • Renault
  • McLaren-Alpine
  • Red Bull-Honda
  • Toro Rosso-Acura
It'd be fun I think

Why not try to go for a somewhat nostalgic sound and make it Toro Rosso-Mugen?

I don't know what i want and i want it now!

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