Unpopular F1 opinions

girry · Post by **girry** » 31 Jul 2015, 16:37

@Biscione: Wolff's DTM resume is very very bad I agree; that's why the practise times are so conflicting, as you could have expected her to be seconds off. Certainly the programs flatter her and Massa would be well more ahead of her in a proper race, but she was no Fong or Nissany. You could build a case that her driving style simply didn't flatter tin tops at all, and ths it would be questionable to definitively judge her as a single seater driver, for she has done only DTM and f1 practise in 9 years...

@Rabbi: I'd guess (though jumping over from different categories is not straight-forward...) that Simona would beat Ericsson on pure pace, she isn't slow. Imo, her major weakness even on rc's has rather been an inability to pass and getting stuck in midfield, which has hampered many ofher races in ics as anability to make one's way up the field is even more important in indycar than F1.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 31 Jul 2015, 16:41

At the same time, one can make the argument that since there are no real high-profile female drivers aside from Danica Patrick, and then only in the US, there aren't really the role models in place that could help facilitate the increased interest which would generate more female drivers. Who knows, maybe the presence of Susie Wolff and Carmen Jorda - as admittedly questionable as their credentials are - could inspire the first female WDC in years to come.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 31 Jul 2015, 18:59

Most of what I would say seems to be covered. Apart from...

Milka Duno? Milka Dunot, more like...

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 01 Aug 2015, 19:42

Salamander wrote:At the same time, one can make the argument that since there are no real high-profile female drivers aside from Danica Patrick, and then only in the US, there aren't really the role models in place that could help facilitate the increased interest which would generate more female drivers. Who knows, maybe the presence of Susie Wolff and Carmen Jorda - as admittedly questionable as their credentials are - could inspire the first female WDC in years to come.

If Susie Wolff's continued existence in motorsport is a price to pay for that, then it's a price too high.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 02 Aug 2015, 15:25

Klon wrote:
Salamander wrote:At the same time, one can make the argument that since there are no real high-profile female drivers aside from Danica Patrick, and then only in the US, there aren't really the role models in place that could help facilitate the increased interest which would generate more female drivers. Who knows, maybe the presence of Susie Wolff and Carmen Jorda - as admittedly questionable as their credentials are - could inspire the first female WDC in years to come.

If Susie Wolff's continued existence in motorsport is a price to pay for that, then it's a price too high.

Carmen Jorda and Milka Duno would be worse. If her performances placed her amongst either the McLarens or Manors, I may have agreed, but she ain't that bad. We don't know fuel levels or anything like that, so I don't think her performance warrants such a harsh judgment.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 05 Aug 2015, 00:14

Bernie's view on this matter.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 05 Aug 2015, 04:16

By Nelson Piquet Snr recently: "Senna was a dirt driver".

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 05 Aug 2015, 07:54

Dj_bereta wrote:By Nelson Piquet Snr recently: "Senna was a dirt driver".

Well, it's true.

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 05 Aug 2015, 08:34

Dj_bereta wrote:By Nelson Piquet Snr recently: "Senna was a dirt driver".

I'm gonna agree with that. I hate people using the "If you no longer for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver," and then blaming drivers that do that.

I never really warmed up to Senna, so I don't know. I liked Piquet and Prost a lot more.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 05 Aug 2015, 11:01

Simtek wrote:Bernie's view on this matter.

I don't think he is using the word "talent" with the same meaning most of us here are using. Or perhaps he's being sarcastic?

I jest, of course. He has an agenda to push. There's no point of taking anything Bernie says at face value, every statement he trots out is formulated to help him push a certain point of view to achieve a particular outcome. His opinion on this is essentially irrelevant, as the lead promoter of the sport having the attention Jorda brings is too valuable to even consider properly evaluating her true racing talents. I think you have to ignore what he says on the issue and listen to Mouton, given she is, I believe, the only female senior FIA delegate, and her job revolves around women in motorsport. You aren't going to get a more qualified opinion on the matter from someone else.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 05 Aug 2015, 12:41

Biscione wrote:
Simtek wrote:Bernie's view on this matter.

I don't think he is using the word "talent" with the same meaning most of us here are using. Or perhaps he's being sarcastic?

I jest, of course. He has an agenda to push. There's no point of taking anything Bernie says at face value, every statement he trots out is formulated to help him push a certain point of view to achieve a particular outcome. His opinion on this is essentially irrelevant, as the lead promoter of the sport having the attention Jorda brings is too valuable to even consider properly evaluating her true racing talents. I think you have to ignore what he says on the issue and listen to Mouton, given she is, I believe, the only female senior FIA delegate, and her job revolves around women in motorsport. You aren't going to get a more qualified opinion on the matter from someone else.

Jorda has not done any FP1 sessions so that she can be compared against others, has she? Susie Wolff has, and while she did not beat her teammate, she equally has not been miles of the pace. Jorda I fear would be.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 05 Aug 2015, 14:36

After watching the 2005 season review again, I'm going to go with this one, Michelin tyres were actually shite that year, and they only won by having the two best teams driving for them. Take Indy out (because a lot of that had to do with improper camber rates) and you still had multiple Williams failures at Hungary, both McLarens having major problems at Italy, scattered issues at Sauber, and of course Kimi's failure at the Ring (self inflicted, but his rears were looking cooked too). In fact Renault won, IMO, because they were widely regarded as being the easiest on their rubber. (Plus Alonso, of course).

I can't help but wonder if Bridgestone followed the letter of the tyre rules that year too closely, whereas Michelin violated the spirit if not the letter.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 05 Aug 2015, 17:53

Wallio wrote:After watching the 2005 season review again, I'm going to go with this one, Michelin tyres were actually shite that year, and they only won by having the two best teams driving for them. Take Indy out (because a lot of that had to do with improper camber rates) and you still had multiple Williams failures at Hungary, both McLarens having major problems at Italy, scattered issues at Sauber, and of course Kimi's failure at the Ring (self inflicted, but his rears were looking cooked too). In fact Renault won, IMO, because they were widely regarded as being the easiest on their rubber. (Plus Alonso, of course).

I can't help but wonder if Bridgestone followed the letter of the tyre rules that year too closely, whereas Michelin violated the spirit if not the letter.

Williams suffered 4 punctures in Turkey that season not Hungary

Renault did have problems. In Monaco for example Alonso clogged up the 2 Williams and then come the final lap was holding up Montoya the Schumachers and Barrichello because of severe tyre wear. He also suffered in Spain and wouldn't have finished 2nd as Fisichella got in front until his front wing came loose.

MorbidelliObese · Post by **MorbidelliObese** » 05 Aug 2015, 20:39

I miss aggregate timing.

I don't care if it could be difficult to follow, it kept the integrity of the race, and to be honest I've never been literally on my feet at the end of a race since Suzuka '94.

Don't get me wrong, I believe the new VSC - when suitable - trumps everything - but at least in instances where we have to have a time-consuming stoppage and a restart, they should total the times of the two legs.

Spectoremg · Post by **Spectoremg** » 05 Aug 2015, 22:53

CoopsII wrote:On occasions this thread is used for plain and tiresome trolling.

Are they the extremely long and tedious posts?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 06 Aug 2015, 11:05

MorbidelliObese wrote:I miss aggregate timing.

I don't care if it could be difficult to follow, it kept the integrity of the race, and to be honest I've never been literally on my feet at the end of a race since Suzuka '94.

Don't get me wrong, I believe the new VSC - when suitable - trumps everything - but at least in instances where we have to have a time-consuming stoppage and a restart, they should total the times of the two legs.

You are not alone with this opinion.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 08 Aug 2015, 06:25

Coulthard deserves more the crasher title than Maldonado or Grosjean. He crashed in the pit entry, he caused one of biggest pile up of F1 story, he deliberate crashed with Schumacher while being lapped, he almost beheaded Wurz and in his final season he crashed in almost half of the races (Australia, Bahrain, Britain, Germany, Italy, Japan and Brazil).

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 08 Aug 2015, 11:45

Dj_bereta wrote:Coulthard deserves more the crasher title than Maldonado or Grosjean. He crashed in the pit entry, he caused one of biggest pile up of F1 story, he deliberate crashed with Schumacher while being lapped, he almost beheaded Wurz and in his final season he crashed in almost half of the races (Australia, Bahrain, Britain, Germany, Italy, Japan and Brazil).

In 1998, he did crash a lot. Thank you!

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 08 Aug 2015, 16:10

Dj_bereta wrote:Coulthard deserves more the crasher title than Maldonado or Grosjean. He crashed in the pit entry, he caused one of biggest pile up of F1 story, he deliberate crashed with Schumacher while being lapped, he almost beheaded Wurz and in his final season he crashed in almost half of the races (Australia, Bahrain, Britain, Germany, Italy, Japan and Brazil).

Thing is that over in Britain he gets let off with a lot of things by the commentators. The one that springs to mind for me is when he did a banzai move Brazil 2005 where he threw his car between Webber and Pizzonia on the start straight, taking out himself and Pizzonia, who then hit his teammate in a chain reaction. Then the commentators were criticising the Williams drivers for closing the door on him!

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 08 Aug 2015, 17:20

Dj_bereta wrote:he deliberate crashed with Schumacher while being lapped

You've got a point, but this is news to me.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 08 Aug 2015, 19:35

Simtek wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:he deliberate crashed with Schumacher while being lapped

You've got a point, but this is news to me.

Maybe he is refering to the incident with Schumacher in Belgium. If so, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree. That one is on Ferrari/Schumacher.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 08 Aug 2015, 19:52

Klon wrote:
Simtek wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:he deliberate crashed with Schumacher while being lapped

You've got a point, but this is news to me.

Maybe he is refering to the incident with Schumacher in Belgium. If so, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree. That one is on Ferrari/Schumacher.

That's what I was thinking too. I always saw it as a racing incident, personally, they were both at fault.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 10 Aug 2015, 07:31

As far as I remember it, Coulthard admitted he was to blame several years later. But he never mentioned it being deliberate.

Post by **mario** » 10 Aug 2015, 08:37

Bleu wrote:As far as I remember it, Coulthard admitted he was to blame several years later. But he never mentioned it being deliberate.

Coulthard did indeed take the blame for that accident in subsequent years, stating that he should not have lifted off the throttle whilst remaining on the racing line at the same time and that it was poor judgement on his part. As others have said, whilst some did accuse Coulthard of deliberately slowing down to make Schumacher crash into him, it is more widely accepted that it was down to driver error on Coulthard's part than an act of malice.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 10 Aug 2015, 13:10

Rob Dylan wrote:Thing is that over in Britain he gets let off with a lot of things by the commentators.

That might be true but over here he isn't remembered as a particularly great F1 driver either, which, depending on your point of view could be seen as a bit unfair.

To me, he was never massively exciting either on track or off. Ralph Firman in better cars.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 02 Sep 2015, 08:48

Hulkenberg staying with Force India is a Heidfeld-esque piece of news.

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 02 Sep 2015, 09:01

I don't think people cared that much. Heck I was like eh when the news came up. I guess during Deadline Day and the US Open, it was just eh.

sw3ishida · Post by **sw3ishida** » 02 Sep 2015, 12:41

It's just kind of one of those things that's just there. My reaction was "Okay, one less name in the rumour mill" before immediately moving on.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 02 Sep 2015, 14:02

To be honest, I just don't see the point in Hulkenberg staying with Force India, or staying in F1 at all. He's said previously that he doesn't want to be stuck in the F1 midfield forever, but by the time this contract extension expires, he's gonna be 30, and more likely than not even further away from a spot with a top team than he is now. Why did he not just cut out the middleman and switch to WEC ASAP?

Post by **Ataxia** » 02 Sep 2015, 14:10

Salamander wrote:To be honest, I just don't see the point in Hulkenberg staying with Force India, or staying in F1 at all. He's said previously that he doesn't want to be stuck in the F1 midfield forever, but by the time this contract extension expires, he's gonna be 30, and more likely than not even further away from a spot with a top team than he is now. Why did he not just cut out the middleman and switch to WEC ASAP?

Why switch to WEC now when he's got a few more years in the big time? With him, Force India have the best chance of bridging the gap to the midfield, and when he's done in F1 he's got another career in endurance racing ready for him should a top team decide to pass him up once again.

There's no point in burning his bridges just yet.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 02 Sep 2015, 14:15

Ataxia wrote:
Salamander wrote:To be honest, I just don't see the point in Hulkenberg staying with Force India, or staying in F1 at all. He's said previously that he doesn't want to be stuck in the F1 midfield forever, but by the time this contract extension expires, he's gonna be 30, and more likely than not even further away from a spot with a top team than he is now. Why did he not just cut out the middleman and switch to WEC ASAP?

Why switch to WEC now when he's got a few more years in the big time? With him, Force India have the best chance of bridging the gap to the midfield, and when he's done in F1 he's got another career in endurance racing ready for him should a top team decide to pass him up once again.

There's also the thing that endurance racing is not as secure a paycheck as it may seem: my doubts regarding the sustainability of the WEC are well known. Might as well grab as much cash from F1 as you can, just in case the endurance bubble bursts quicker than expected.

Spectoremg · Post by **Spectoremg** » 02 Sep 2015, 20:36

Salamander wrote:To be honest, I just don't see the point in Hulkenberg staying with Force India, or staying in F1 at all. He's said previously that he doesn't want to be stuck in the F1 midfield forever, but by the time this contract extension expires, he's gonna be 30, and more likely than not even further away from a spot with a top team than he is now. Why did he not just cut out the middleman and switch to WEC ASAP?

Because it's like leaving Barcelona for Accrington Stanley.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 02 Sep 2015, 21:54

Ataxia wrote:
Salamander wrote:To be honest, I just don't see the point in Hulkenberg staying with Force India, or staying in F1 at all. He's said previously that he doesn't want to be stuck in the F1 midfield forever, but by the time this contract extension expires, he's gonna be 30, and more likely than not even further away from a spot with a top team than he is now. Why did he not just cut out the middleman and switch to WEC ASAP?

Why switch to WEC now when he's got a few more years in the big time? With him, Force India have the best chance of bridging the gap to the midfield, and when he's done in F1 he's got another career in endurance racing ready for him should a top team decide to pass him up once again.

There's no point in burning his bridges just yet.

You don't need me to tell you how extrordinarily slim the odds of Force India cooking up a race-winning car are. All that Hulkenberg is going to accomplish in the next two seasons are feats which he's already accomplished - save the fairly small chance of a podium. I just don't see what's the big allure there when there's not much more he can really do to move Force India up the grid.

Klon wrote:There's also the thing that endurance racing is not as secure a paycheck as it may seem: my doubts regarding the sustainability of the WEC are well known. Might as well grab as much cash from F1 as you can, just in case the endurance bubble bursts quicker than expected.

And Force India is a secure paycheck? There was doubt they'd even see out the season at the start of this year, and the team's outlook is still fairly uncertain, even if Lotus have regained the position as "Midfield team in most dire financial straits". Porsche have re-committed to WEC until 2018 - if I was looking for a secure paycheck, that'd be a better bet than any F1 midfield team.

Spectoremg wrote:Because it's like leaving Barcelona for Accrington Stanley.

Because being a WEC champion and Le Mans winner is so much less glamorous than milling about in the F1 midfield like Adrian Sutil? At least he'd be a champion of something.

Spectoremg · Post by **Spectoremg** » 02 Sep 2015, 22:52

I only know the Hulk won Le Man because he's in F1, I couldn't tell you who his co-drivers were without looking it up.
Ask me who the current WEC champs are?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 02 Sep 2015, 23:48

Spectoremg wrote:I only know the Hulk won Le Man because he's in F1, I couldn't tell you who his co-drivers were without looking it up.
Ask me who the current WEC champs are?

Better question - since when was public awareness actually relevant to the prestige and challenge of motorsports? If the value of a racing series was determined solely by how many people could name its champions, only F1, MotoGP, and NASCAR would be worth watching and competing in. Thankfully, that's not the case.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 03 Sep 2015, 02:55

Salamander wrote:Because being a WEC champion and Le Mans winner is so much less glamorous than milling about in the F1 midfield like Adrian Sutil? At least he'd be a champion of something.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 03 Sep 2015, 12:35

AdrianSutil wrote:
Salamander wrote:Because being a WEC champion and Le Mans winner is so much less glamorous than milling about in the F1 midfield like Adrian Sutil? At least he'd be a champion of something.

Don't listen to him Adrian, you'll be champion one day

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 03 Sep 2015, 15:32

Spectoremg wrote:I only know the Hulk won Le Man because he's in F1, I couldn't tell you who his co-drivers were without looking it up.

Yeah but who cares who them losers were?

Oh, I see.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 03 Sep 2015, 17:11

Spectoremg wrote:I only know the Hulk won Le Man because he's in F1, I couldn't tell you who his co-drivers were without looking it up.
Ask me who the current WEC champs are?

Irrelevant. I know Audi has dominated Le Mans they have only lost 3 times since 2002 I believe, once each to Bentley, Peugeot, and now Porsche (although the EXP Speed 8 was an Audi in drag.....)

But I can name but three of there drivers total: McNish, Pirro, and Christenson. That's it.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 03 Sep 2015, 17:25

Wallio wrote:
Spectoremg wrote:I only know the Hulk won Le Man because he's in F1, I couldn't tell you who his co-drivers were without looking it up.
Ask me who the current WEC champs are?

Irrelevant. I know Audi has dominated Le Mans they have only lost 3 times since 2002 I believe, once each to Bentley, Peugeot, and now Porsche (although the EXP Speed 8 was an Audi in drag.....)

But I can name but three of there drivers total: McNish, Pirro, and Christenson. That's it.

Andre Lotterer is displeased with you.