BOSS GP

The place for anything and everything else to do with F1 history, different forms of motorsport, and all other randomness
boeing11
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Re: BOSS GP

Post by boeing11 »

Never really got this series. Why bother to buy a '97 Benetton only to call it something else, repaint it and then rip its guts out (engine and gearbox). Likewise I remember seeing they'd taken the Yamaha V10 out of Tyrrell and shoved a Ford in the back. Now, the Historic F1 stuff and Historic GP Masters is brilliant because the cars are raced exactly as they were in period, more or less. Brilliant.
Faustus
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Re: BOSS GP

Post by Faustus »

It's the only racing series where you can run a 1997 Benetton other than track day-type stuff. GP Masters is for pre-1985 normally-aspirated only.
The thing with the engines is that the factory engines were owned by the manufacturers and require assistance (at the very least start-up codes) to even fire up. Also some engines are rare and very difficult to find replacement components for, so it's safer to run a proven and supported engine like the Cosworths or the Judds. Same thing with the gearboxes. Zwaart had the original Benetton gearbox stripped of the more sophisticated electronics because it increased the lifespan and reduced the rebuild mileage.
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boeing11
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Re: BOSS GP

Post by boeing11 »

I take your point and see the logic of doing that but if you change all those components you're not running a 1997 Benetton. Just something that looks a bit like one. Sorry if I sound like a smart-arse. That's why I don't really see the attraction of the series. I enjoyed seeing the 7Up Jordan in action at Donington though. Great car and year of F1.
Faustus
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Re: BOSS GP

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The BOSS series isn't a historic racing series, it's a run-what-you-brung single seater series.
The cars in historic series are not exactly as they were in period. At all. They are approximations. There are obvious concessions towards safety, such as added or reinforced roll-hoops, but it goes much deeper than that. Remember that almost all (if not actually all) of the Historic cars racing in the world today are not 100% original. A lot of replacement components have been machined from new, because things simply wear out and become unsafe. A lot of components just cannot be found any more. Most of the Cosworth DFVs used in the Masters GP championship are new and most teams fit short-stroke DFVs to cars that pre-date the short-stroke variant. Is that original?
Besides, what is original? Original to a given moment in time, because racing cars are developed over their life-span and the specification of the cars evolve. I'll give you a couple of examples.
The last time I went to the Silverstone Historic Festival there was a Ford GT40 (Mk I), original chassis from 1965, verified serial number and chassis plate, proven history, etc. Now this car was running diveplanes at the front that the car never raced in period. Turns out they were added to the car sometime in the 1980s by a previous owner, but the current owner kept them. It's still undeniably a GT40. Does that make the car original or not?
Duncan Dayton used to run a Brabham BT33 from 1970 in the Masters GP series. Duncan is not a professional driver but he is a very capable driver, considering that he has done Le Mans and ALMS races in high-level cars. His BT33 was as unoriginal as is humanly possible. The only original thing about it was the monocoque and the main plane of the rear wing. Uprights, wishbones, wing mounts, roll-hoop, everything was new machined from solid. And he had a short-stroke DFV, which is wrong for the car. The spring/dampers on the car were 6-way adjustable Penske dampers straight out of his MG-Lola EX257 Le Mans Prototype. Because of this and of his driving skill, the car was as fast if not faster than much later cars, including wing-cars (or rather the neutered wing-cars that Masters GP runs). Yet undeniably it's still an original BT33.
This gets even more complicated in the Vintage Sports Car Championship (VSCC) for much older cars. And every so often the FIA decides to join in the discussion and usually take silly decisions.
Last edited by Faustus on 08 Jan 2014, 07:44, edited 2 times in total.
Following Formula 1 since 1984.
Avid collector of Formula 1 season guides and reviews.
Collector of reject merchandise and 1/43rd scale reject model cars.
boeing11
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Joined: 10 Jul 2013, 18:40

Re: BOSS GP

Post by boeing11 »

Yes you're absolutely right about the historic scenes Faustus. Naturally the historic gp cars don't have "original" components as that would be pretty impossible really with engine lifespan etc. but I guess the point I'm trying to make is I that I don't think people would want to see a Lotus 72 painted white with a Chevy V8 in the back. At least the historic GP Masters guys try to keep faith with the original car's concept. Maybe I'm alone on this. That's my only issue with Boss GP.
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Butterfox
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Re: BOSS GP

Post by Butterfox »

Well, i have seen the Boss series race once, and the thing that bothered me the most, was that there was absolutely no competition between cars. Now with the lots of GP2 and World Series cars, this has improved a little bit, but still. At least in the historics i've seen quite a few nice battles (including a Token and a Trojan battling for position with an Amon!), or the plenty of lotus and coopers in the pre 1965 class.
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Re: BOSS GP

Post by Faustus »

Thread archeology!

I hadn't looked at BOSS GP in a couple of years and I just had a look at the website. It's looking quite healthy and there are still some very interesting cars racing in it. I may have to have a look at the 2019 calendar and see if I can find a way to go one of the races or, even better, if it's supporting one of the championships that I'm in.
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dr-baker
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Re: BOSS GP

Post by dr-baker »

Faustus wrote:I may have to have a look at the 2019 calendar and see if I can find a way to go one of the races or, even better, if it's supporting one of the championships that I'm in.

Let us know. If there are any local rounds, you may even get one or two supporters from here cheering your cars on from the grandstands!
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