The place for anything and everything else to do with F1 history, different forms of motorsport, and all other randomness
by Miguel98 28 Feb 2021, 13:43
Was this weekend's Formula E races one of the most rejectfull things to ever happen? Because, and holy crap, what the hell was this? How has FE turned into this?

From qualifying penalties that make no sense, to half-assed safety car periods, to long decisions, to race penalties that make no sense (looking at that JEV penalty specially), playing by a rule book that seems more gimmicky than NASCAR and intended to cause chaos and disruption? And, to top it all off, apparently rebels tried to blow up the track, which led to most of the paddock to get stuck in Saudi Arabia :facepalm:

How has Formula E turned into this? They startd as one of the most promising categories, to change motorsport. But as the years progressed, they seem to be looking more for gimmicks and mayhem for "spectacle" than for actual racing. This weekend, their first as a World Championship, was just the icing on the cake for what has been a story that is seemingly evolving in the wrong direction. And that makes me sad.

Mario on Gutierrez after the Italian Grand Prix wrote:He's no longer just a bit of a tool, he's the entire tool set.


18-07-2015: Forever in our hearts Jules.
25-08-2015: Forever in our hearts Justin.
by dr-baker 28 Feb 2021, 15:01
Miguel98 wrote: And, to top it all off, apparently rebels tried to blow up the track, which led to most of the paddock to get stuck in Saudi Arabia :facepalm:

Seriously? Wonder if the same thing will be attempted at the F1 event?

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by dinizintheoven 28 Feb 2021, 19:32
"And 17 drivers have scored points after two rounds!"

Say what you like about the "reverse grid" races, you'd never see that in F1.

Reject Of The Race is still the same as it was for the last two seasons, and will continue to be in the future, and not just in FE, now. It's got to the point where I don't even need to write [REDACTED] any more. You know what I mean.

By the time we get to the next round, I will have somewhere else to live. I'd better call... and this doesn't pain me as much as it used to... Sky. Because there's no Virgin Media where I'm going. No gas either, but that's less of a problem.

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by Rob Dylan 01 Mar 2021, 10:19
I caught the first race but not the second. I have been behind for a while on FE, but I wasn't all that swung back by Friday's race.

I will still probably catch up, but yes, Formula E still has a legitimacy problem in my eyes. Since the beginning they've never really managed to establish a "respectable" image to me, and the ever-increasing reliance on gimmicks (as in, every other thing about Formula E is a gimmick) as well as just baffling organisation decisions, I'm not keeping up with the series at the same level as I would with other top-level series.

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by roblo97 02 Apr 2021, 15:31
dinizintheoven wrote:It's got to the point where I don't even need to write [REDACTED] any more. You know what I mean.

Attack mode or Fanboost? (I have been on hiatus from the forum in my defence) :P

Mexicola wrote:
shinji wrote:
Mexicola wrote: I'd rather listen to a dog lick its balls. Each to their own, I guess.

Does listening to a dog licking its balls get you excited?

That's between me and my internet service provider.

One of those journalist types.
270 Tube stations in 18:42:50!
by SammiRei 19 Apr 2021, 17:46
roblo97 wrote:
dinizintheoven wrote:It's got to the point where I don't even need to write [REDACTED] any more. You know what I mean.

Attack mode or Fanboost? (I have been on hiatus from the forum in my defence) :P


The 'last two seasons' comment makes me suspect Attack Mode, since it only started in season 5 when they introduced the Gen 2 car. That said, given 'and not just in Formula-E' makes me think it might be stewarding decisions instead.

Anyway, on a possible tangent, I'd like to present my thoughts Attack Mode, and why I actually think it's less gimmicky than Formula 1's DRS when you compare the two in detail.

Usage:
DRS can be used whenever a driver is within 1 second of the car in front when they cross the timing line. There are no limits on use, so therefore there is no reason not to use it every single time it is available.
AM can only be used twice (or on rare occasions thrice) during a race, so when to use it forms part of a driver's/team's strategy for the race.

Activation:
DRS can be activated in a DRS zone whenever the usage condition is met. It's as simple as pushing a button.
AM must be activated by driving through the activation zone. A series of three sensors must all be driven over in order to activate it, so it's possible for a driver to get the angle wrong and fail to activate it, thus adding an (admittedly relatively small) measure of skill into the activation.

Downside
DRS has no noticable downside.
AM activations zones are almost always off the racing line, meaning activating it costs the driver several seconds. This can result in losing places if the timing isn't judged correctly, which again leads to a strategic/tactical element into the decision when to take it. Additionally, while it allows for a higher maximum power usage, it doesn't grant additional total power, meaning the extra consumption must be taken into account when calculating the power usage for the whole race, again providing a strategic element.

In summary, while Attack Mode looks and feels to be a gimmick on the surface, I personally think that the strategic elements it introduces make it far less of one than Formula 1's own 'push button to pass' mechanic in DRS.
by dinizintheoven 24 Apr 2021, 13:57
So... anyone remember what we all thought might happen in the first ever FE race?

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by Londoner 24 Apr 2021, 14:01
I've seen some utterly stupid racing moments in my life, but the ending of the Valencia ePrix takes the piss. Who could have foreseen that arbitrarily reducing useable energy behind the safety car would backfire like this. :facepalm:

Indy 2005 levels of bathplug from the FIA tbh.

kevinbotz, discussing magnesium wrote:But it's so light and lovely, Tommy. Never mind that it effectively turned Grand Prix cars constructed out of it into incendiary bombs. :P
by Miguel98 24 Apr 2021, 14:02
Well, that was.... something. And it wasn't good. :facepalm:

Mario on Gutierrez after the Italian Grand Prix wrote:He's no longer just a bit of a tool, he's the entire tool set.


18-07-2015: Forever in our hearts Jules.
25-08-2015: Forever in our hearts Justin.
by Frogfoot9013 24 Apr 2021, 17:00
I didn't watch that race, but it seems like I missed out on a work of art, from what I've heard.

James Hunt, commentating on the 1991 German Grand Prix wrote:The Benettons looking very smart together on the track, mostly because they're both going so slowly.
by tommykl 24 Apr 2021, 20:33
Londoner wrote:I've seen some utterly stupid racing moments in my life, but the ending of the Valencia ePrix takes the piss. Who could have foreseen that arbitrarily reducing useable energy behind the safety car would backfire like this. :facepalm:

Indy 2005 levels of bathplug from the FIA tbh.

It's not arbitrary exactly, it's well-established that it's a reduction of 1kWh for each minute of safety car or full-course yellow. This is why I have very little sympathy for the teams who got caught out: if you're in a position where with 5 minutes to go you don't have enough energy to make it to the end if the next 3 minutes are under safety car (in a series which isn't exactly renowned for its clean driving standards), you've only got yourselves to blame.

kevinbotz wrote:Cantonese is a completely nonsensical f*cking alien language masquerading as some grossly bastardised form of Chinese

Gonzo wrote:Wasn't there some sort of communisim in the East part of Germany?
by Freeze-O-Kimi 24 Apr 2021, 22:11
Londoner wrote:I've seen some utterly stupid racing moments in my life, but the ending of the Valencia ePrix takes the piss. Who could have foreseen that arbitrarily reducing useable energy behind the safety car would backfire like this. :facepalm:

Indy 2005 levels of bathplug from the FIA tbh.


Agreed. I found it funny but it wasn’t “haha” funny, it was “really mate?” funny. It’s moments like that which also show how dumb the +1 Lap rule really is IMO
by Rob Dylan 25 Apr 2021, 15:24
It's also the fact that it has come right after a stupid number of penalty handouts from the FE authorities this season alone. Crazy scary crashes, endless ENDLESS penalties, and then this It's been like this from minute 1 of the season it feels like.

As Wazzle keeps reminding us, only another 17 years until they lose the exclusivity rights to host electric racing :facepalm:

Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.


Felipe Nasr - the least forgettable F1 driver!
by Yannick 01 May 2021, 13:04
Witnessing over half the field of Formula E run out of energy on the final lap whilst watching the replay of the race was as bizarre a moment as the legendary 2005 USGP of F1 or the safety car literally picking up race leader Franz Engstler's car in WTTC at Pau some years back.

"I don't think we should be used to finance (the manufacturers') R&D because they will produce that engine anyway" said Monisha Kaltenborn.
"You will never see a Mercedes using a Ferrari engine or the other way round."
by SammiRei 06 May 2021, 17:50
This weekend's Monaco Formula-E race is officially using the full Monte Carlo circuit for the first time, so we'll get to see them go through the tunnel, which will be fun with the halos lit up for Attack Mode/Fanboost.
by tommykl 09 May 2021, 13:53
That was an absolutely awesome race from a spectacle point of view. Overtakes all over the track in places F1 couldn't dream of having. Surely this is extra evidence in the case of F1 cars being far too large?

kevinbotz wrote:Cantonese is a completely nonsensical f*cking alien language masquerading as some grossly bastardised form of Chinese

Gonzo wrote:Wasn't there some sort of communisim in the East part of Germany?
by UncreativeUsername37 10 May 2021, 19:14
I don't know what happened to old style Sainte Dévote, but hey, who can be negative about this race. What other series will give you an overtake at Beau Rivage and a locked up around the outside last lap pass for the lead at Monaco?

Rob Dylan wrote:Mercedes paying homage to the other W12 chassis by breaking down 30 minutes in
by dinizintheoven 12 Jun 2021, 11:21
Time for a few stats, I think - for no discernible reason other than that I wanted to know if the next ePrix was happening this weekend. It isn't, it's next weekend, but now that I've looked for it, I find that Nico Müller will be replaced by Joel Eriksson for the upcoming race weekend and will be the 73rd driver to compete at the 77th event.

About the contentious FanBoost that always seems to go to the same drivers every race - Lucas Di Grassi has had the most (42), Sébastien Buemi is second (41) and Daniel Abt third (38) - the first two were pretty much ever-present on the FanBoost list for the first three seasons at least. Now that Anónio Félix da Costa is winning all the time, it's him who's getting the FanBoost in every race. It suggests to me that either there's a lot of glory-hunter fans - of the type who supported Manchester United in the 1990s but have switched allegiance to Chelsea, and now Manchester City about five years ago - or that the FanBoost selection process is about as fair as an election in Zimbabwe. The chances are it's a bit of both.

I can see this because The All-Knowing Oracle's list of Formula E drivers lists the number of FanBoosts - so what of the drivers who have never had it? Are these not the drivers who we should throw our support behind at GP Rejects towers?

Robin Frijns is top of the list for the most entries - 53 - without a FanBoost. Nico Prost is second on 45, and he's unlikely to come back. Edoardo Mortara is at 40 entries, Alex Lynn has 34, and Oliver Rowland 32, and they're all still active.

Oliver Turvey has the Andrea de Cesaris Award for the most entries without a win - 66 - and in that NIO, he's not going to do so. Nick Heidfeld is third on 44 entries and André Lotterer is on 43, though you'd think he'll win eventually.

But proof that Formula E is far more closely competitive than F1 is in the drivers with the highest number of entries without ever standing on the podium, which we'll call the Nico Hülkenberg Award. Tom Dillmann and Maro Engel are tied at the top on 23, with Tom Blomqvist third on 15. Two of those three have spent most of their FE career with NIO.

And the Luca Badoer Award for the highest number of entries without scoring a point goes to, imagine my shock, Ma Qing Hua - who keeps appearing, failing, and being dumped again. 14 entries, nul points, and three of those were as Jean-Éric Vergne's teammate at Techeetah in a car that was good for four seconds and a win in his hands. The next highest number of entries without a point is Michaela Cerruti, with four, at the beginning of the series before she disappeared in strange circumstances. The entire remainder of the list is: Ho-Pin Tung, Jacques Villeneuve, Felipe Nasr (3 entries), Katherine Legge, Kamui Kobayashi, Sakon Yamamoto, Matthew Brabham, Alex Fontana, Antonio García, Fabio Leimer (2), and Marco Andretti (1).

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by Londoner 19 Jun 2021, 22:03
My love affair with Formula E is well and truly over after the latest farcical race this season. A stupidly-designed Attack Mode area which caused two predictable crashes, and Wehrlein dominating the entire race only to be disqualified literally 5 seconds after taking the chequered flag for a random technicality. Which meant we got to hear Lucas di Grassi be the most ungracious winner in the history of motorsport for several agonising minutes. :facepalm:

Seriously, bathplug this series.

kevinbotz, discussing magnesium wrote:But it's so light and lovely, Tommy. Never mind that it effectively turned Grand Prix cars constructed out of it into incendiary bombs. :P
by dr-baker 20 Jun 2021, 09:10
Londoner wrote:My love affair with Formula E is well and truly over after the latest farcical race this season. A stupidly-designed Attack Mode area which caused two predictable crashes, and Wehrlein dominating the entire race only to be disqualified literally 5 seconds after taking the chequered flag for a random technicality. Which meant we got to hear Lucas di Grassi be the most ungracious winner in the history of motorsport for several agonising minutes. :facepalm:

Seriously, bathplug this series.

Understandable. And in a year where they gain World Championship status for the first time (or is it second?), so should be coming across as more professional.

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by dr-baker 11 Jul 2021, 19:04
With his win on the streets of Brooklyn, New York City, Sam Bird goes from 13th to 1st in the drivers championship. Is this a positive sign of what a close, competitive championship FE is, or evidence of how contrived the championship is?

Happy to see Bird do well though.

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by dinizintheoven 12 Jul 2021, 18:45
At least it's not the Mercedes kerb-stomp that I feared it would become.

One of those is quite enough!

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by dr-baker 12 Jul 2021, 21:38
dinizintheoven wrote:At least it's not the Mercedes kerb-stomp that I feared it would become.

One of those is quite enough!

True, but FE is on the verge of not allowing the best to rise to the top because it is shaken up too much.

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by dinizintheoven 13 Jul 2021, 18:07
One thing's still for sure: shake it up as much as you like, but NIO will still be bottom of the teams' standings, and Ma Qing Hua will never score a point no matter how many comebacks he makes. Not that I think he ever will at this stage unless there's another Chinese team in the future who demand a Chinese driver and can't think of any alternatives...

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by dr-baker 14 Jul 2021, 06:24
dinizintheoven wrote:One thing's still for sure: shake it up as much as you like, but NIO will still be bottom of the teams' standings, and Ma Qing Hua will never score a point no matter how many comebacks he makes. Not that I think he ever will at this stage unless there's another Chinese team in the future who demand a Chinese driver and can't think of any alternatives...

That is true. 18 points for NIO and they are still 24 points away from not being last...

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by dinizintheoven 24 Jul 2021, 15:58
I am rather surprised there wasn't more mayhem on that very rejectful double-hairpin. I'm not entirely convinced about most of the circuit, for that matter. And it sounded near-silent, as if this was a 2020 race with a crowd of zero, until the last lap.

Am I alone in wanting Battersea Park back, and not just for nostalgia reasons?

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by dr-baker 24 Jul 2021, 21:24
dinizintheoven wrote:Am I alone in wanting Battersea Park back, and not just for nostalgia reasons?

Am I alone in wanting a race on Saturday at Excel Centre, and then a race in Battersea on the Sunday?

Lap 1 was pretty manic. Wonder how the original layout might have turned out?

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by dinizintheoven 25 Jul 2021, 15:20
Am I alone in thinking that someone at Audi has been reading Michael Schumacher's Big Book Of How To Not Quite Cheat But Still Just About Stay Within The Absolute Letter Of The Law (By The Beerest Of All Marguns, As They Say In New Zealand) While Burning The Spirit Of The Law Like Meths?

If that's the official corporate culture at that team, I am no longer even remotely surprised that Daniel Abt did what he did, thought it was a laugh and had the book thrown at him for it.

Anyone outside the Anglosphere or who doesn't usually watch cricket, the "Trevor Chappell has been instructed to bowl underarm" incident for the only possible equivalent I can think of. It wasn't specifically against the rules in this competition - but such was the disgust, not least Richie Benaud's tirade on Australian TV, that underarm bowling was deadlocked into the history books.

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by dr-baker 25 Jul 2021, 18:39
I always thought that in F1, drive-throughs (or drive-thrus for Americans, or would it be drive-bys?) were only allowed when there was no safety car or full course yellows, to prevent this type of situation. And I therefore also assumed that this would have applied to FE. But of course I should have realised that FE was the crazy black sheep of the FIA stable. It feels like they are just making rules up as they go along, and then reinterpreting them as suits their unwritten agenda weekend to weekend, and sometimes even day to day. But it does feel like also that both F1 and FE are overpenalising their drivers at the moment to the point where drivers are asking themselves whether the series want racing or Trulli trains.

On that note, I enjoyed seeing the De La Rosa trains (DLR!) in some of the shots by the double hairpin chicane.

Talking of which, I hope they get rid of that double hairpin chicane for the next event there. Otherwise I will be thinking that they are creating unnecessary drama for its own sake, given the number of incidents that happened there compared to anywhere else around the track layout.

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA
by Yannick 26 Jul 2021, 16:23
dinizintheoven wrote:
Am I alone in wanting Battersea Park back, and not just for nostalgia reasons?


Really, now that Formula E has proven to be racy at Monaco, they should run Crystal Palace!

"I don't think we should be used to finance (the manufacturers') R&D because they will produce that engine anyway" said Monisha Kaltenborn.
"You will never see a Mercedes using a Ferrari engine or the other way round."
by Barbazza 26 Jul 2021, 20:25
I almost always record the races to watch later, and when I saw that Di Grassi was trending on Twitter I knew he had either won the race or done something monumentally stupid. I guessed the latter, though no way would I have guessed the mode of stupidity in a million years.

Speaking of repeat offenders, what absolutely abysmal racecraft by Lotterer in race 2. Again. In any other series, he may have had some serious points on his licence by now.
by UncreativeUsername37 26 Jul 2021, 21:16
Over the weekend we had three disqualifications and one thoroughly undeserved crash. Poor Vandoorne, although it does put him at the top of group 2. That's the nice thing about the totally not reverse grids, they give the series a weird self-correction mechanism. The not so nice thing, of course, is that you feel like you're watching "result chaos" with someone's final position somewhat loosely related to their actual pace. And then you often find out that around 10% of the results of the race you just watched have been invalidated anyway.

I'm getting sick of this.

Rob Dylan wrote:Mercedes paying homage to the other W12 chassis by breaking down 30 minutes in
by dinizintheoven 27 Jul 2021, 15:14
Barbazza wrote:Speaking of repeat offenders, what absolutely abysmal racecraft by Lotterer in race 2. Again. In any other series, he may have had some serious points on his licence by now.

Yes, I should have mentioned that as well - it makes me wonder how he managed to drive for eight hours or there abouts in a 24-hour race, not end up in a race-ending shunt (to the fury of his two co-drivers) and manage to win overall - three times!

James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time:
"...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
by dr-baker 27 Jul 2021, 16:54
dinizintheoven wrote:
Barbazza wrote:Speaking of repeat offenders, what absolutely abysmal racecraft by Lotterer in race 2. Again. In any other series, he may have had some serious points on his licence by now.

Yes, I should have mentioned that as well - it makes me wonder how he managed to drive for eight hours or there abouts in a 24-hour race, not end up in a race-ending shunt (to the fury of his two co-drivers) and manage to win overall - three times!

No idea, maybe it's just a difference in mentality between an endurance race and a sprint race?

watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
MCard LOLA

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