The Perry McCarthy Top Gear Thread

[RonDenisDeletraz]

If this thread is only to talk about Evans Top Gear, then surely there should be another thread to talk about Clarkson, Hammond and May's new show when it is launched. Anyway, I will certainly give the new Top Gear a go, but I am not optimistic. From what little I have seen of Chris Evans I find him irritating..

[andrew]

What did people think of the new show? For me Evans was a little shouty and tried to copy Clarkson too much. The new extra gear spinoff however has potential.

[AndreaModa]

Didn't watch it, don't really care. Laughed at the amount of abuse it's received on social media. Everyone saying Chris Evans is too loud - I could have told you that yesterday. The man's coked up to his eyeballs most of the time.

They'll iron out some of the issues before the series is out and then trot out a few more series and it will either die a slow death or eventually be received positively. I'm interested to read the viewing figures, and not just for this evening's show but the whole series once it's finished. That will be the true test.

[Izzyeviel]

I saw some of it, I thought it was pretty good. Matt was very good I thought, not so sure about Chris though. He lacks presence and authority I thought.

[CoopsII]

I saw some of it, I thought it was pretty good. Matt was very good I thought, not so sure about Chris though. He lacks presence and authority I thought.

I caught a bit of it and I agree with you. And I'm someone who binned Top Gear years and years ago. The problem for me is they've replaced one loud mouthed git with another loud mouthed git. I think Matt as lead host would be quite good, a change of pace maybe, and I can see that happening if there's another series.

[Rob Dylan]

Apparently the second episode bombed big time. The first episode got an average of 4.3 million viewers in Britain, which was well under the desired 5 million. This episode only got 2.7 million average. Not much they can do to spin it, especially seeing as its loudest spinner so far is its main problem: Chris Evans.

[dr-baker]

Apparently the second episode bombed big time. The first episode got an average of 4.3 million viewers in Britain, which was well under the desired 5 million. This episode only got 2.7 million average. Not much they can do to spin it, especially seeing as its loudest spinner so far is its main problem: Chris Evans.

But Chris Evans has apparently been trying to spin it by adding in those who recorded it and those who watched it on iPlayer. Apparently, that boosted the figures up to 9,000,000 (that could have at least been for the first episode though, I get confused when I am on constant catch-up with news).

[dinizintheoven]

I've seen those first two episodes now, and... I certainly don't hate it. I can't. Never mind that I'll miss the "three best mates in cars" aspect of the 2003-15 version of Top Gear (note that I didn't say 2002 deliberately), never mind that I was immensely irritated at times by the previous three deliberately and unnecessarily playing up to their stereotypes (Jeremy in particular), never mind that I was slightly put out of joint by Chris Evans seemingly trying to do impressions of the orang-utan in the first episode (and, noticeably, not the second): the fact is, I like cars too much not to watch Top Gear Mark Three. I mean, I go back and look at clips of the original Top Gear Mark One on YouTube with Chris Goffey and Willy Woollyman doing sensible, cardigan-wearing reviews of humdrum cars of the 1980s and Count Quentula telling us how to get a great deal buying those same cars used five years down the line.

I am well aware, though, that I will be in the small minority. And if the BBC are going to constantly bugger about with the presenting line-up, it will very soon go the way of Top Gear Australia (which I also liked, even though I only watched the first series).

At least watching the first Extra Gear, it is blindingly obvious why Chris Harris got the job, and he's the one presenter who never felt the need to imitate the style of what had gone before for 12 years - he does it his own way, and I'm tempted to check out what he did on YouTube now.

Oh, and as for the second episode bombing: I would just like to say if I may, at least the new line-up really tried to replicate what made the Clarkson-Wilman version so enthralling. There's a lot of me that wants to go and see that part of South Africa (and Lesotho) now, with the rand tanking as badly as it has. And unlike The F1 Slate, I will not now finish up with a reversal of my original opinion, despite the presence of Eddie Jordan on screen, and when the "extras" teamed up against Damian Lewis I knew Eddie would nominate the Jordan 191 for his best car of all time, because I'd have said the same thing, and I suspect just about everyone else here would have done as well.

I've been here before. It's a very similar situation to when Richard O'Brien left The Crystal Maze. For its fifth series, where Ed Tudor-Pole tried to step into the role that the world's worst harmonica player had left, the viewing levels dropped. I kept on watching right to the end of the sixth series, but that's because I was watching for the actual games; much of the audience The Crystal Maze had gathered before were watching for Richard O'Brien's antics between (and during) the games. I watch Top Gear for the cars just as much as for what the presenters get up to; most of the audience that Clarkson, Hammond and May built up were watching for how they would arse about and be "ambitious but deliberately rubbish"... I preferred it when they were rubbish by accident rather than because the script called for it, but I kept on watching for the cars (and the scenery on the road trips, hence why I enjoyed the South African trip that Evans and co just did). But I've never lost my time for what made The Previous Three what they still are, I mean, I just watched James May's series on BBC Four where he rebuilt a lawnmower, an electric guitar and a 1950s telephone from their component parts and I must be one of the very few people who could find that interesting.

I will continue with Top Gear Mark Three, but I will still be interested in what The Grand Tour has to offer come (probably) the autumn. Still can't believe they picked that rather nondescript title, though. When watching the first Extra Gear, I thought it should have been called "overdrive" - after all, that was an extra gear in the days of four-speed boxes as standard, then I further thought: why didn't Clarkson and co call their new series Overdrive instead?

[dr-baker]

Erudite and correct as ever, Jim!

[dinizintheoven]

And I've just realised there's a third episode out today. Better catch up with that.

I suppose there are other musical comparisons I could have made with the third incarnation of Top Gear. It's Iron Maiden fronted by Blaze Bayley, Judas Priest with Tim Owens, Iced Earth also with Tim Owens, Stratovarius with Miss K, Strange Fruit with Ray Sims...

Widely disliked though the Bayley and Owens eras of their respective bands were, while they were certainly not without their faults (Don't Look To The Eyes Of A Stranger and Devil Digger being the respective nadir of Maiden and Priest) I still found something to like amongst them. And if anyone wants proof, and has five hours to spare, the celebratory "40 years of Iron Maiden" edition of The Hammer Of Retribution Ogg-Cast can be found here. If you don't want to listen to the whole lot (and why not?) my defence of Blaze Bayley and the impossible job he was charged with doing, starts at 2:47:46, and there's more (after a couple of tracks from The X Factor and Virtual XI) from about 3:10, including a further defence of The Angel and the Gambler, which has found favour with seemingly nobody.

[CoopsII]

I've been here before. It's a very similar situation to when Richard O'Brien left The Crystal Maze. For its fifth series, where Ed Tudor-Pole tried to step into the role that the world's worst harmonica player had left, the viewing levels dropped.

Or when Dominik Diamond left Gamesmaster to be replaced with Dexter Fletcher?

[dinizintheoven]

Strangely, I didn't mind Dexter either. Something to do with that may have been that the series he hosted also had a guest appearance from Janick gers, testing a 1990s forerunner to Guitar Hero...

It was something of a surprise when he turned up in Snatch. I found myself wondering if it was the same Dexter Fletcher, but then, how many of them can there be?

[mario]

But I've never lost my time for what made The Previous Three what they still are, I mean, I just watched James May's series on BBC Four where he rebuilt a lawnmower, an electric guitar and a 1950s telephone from their component parts and I must be one of the very few people who could find that interesting.

I'm not sure whether or not I should be worried that I was one of those other few people who did also enjoy watching that series...

I will continue with Top Gear Mark Three, but I will still be interested in what The Grand Tour has to offer come (probably) the autumn. Still can't believe they picked that rather nondescript title, though. When watching the first Extra Gear, I thought it should have been called "overdrive" - after all, that was an extra gear in the days of four-speed boxes as standard, then I further thought: why didn't Clarkson and co call their new series Overdrive instead?

It is a somewhat bland name, and to be honest I'm actually not that interested in the premise of their show - Bezos has given them a blank cheque and publicly encouraged the "big is best" mantra, but to me that sort of facile showing off is dull and monotonous.

By constantly shifting from nation to nation and producing something akin to one of their special shows for Top Gear for each and every episode of their new show, it feels to me that it will make what was meant to be something slightly magical into something slightly mundane.

If anything, I feel that it will only be to their detriment - to me, the most interesting parts were the slower paced and smaller scale events, where there was more of a sense of intimacy and more of an emotional impact (for example, when they produced that film about Lancia and why they adored some of its most iconic cars).

The focus on just the larger events just feels like everything will just blur into a meaningless cacophony of stage managed set pieces which are about showing off about themselves, rather than about the cars or the environment they are in - a bit like a cheap action film, where there are lots of dramatic set pieces that hold your interest for a while, but eventually just becomes meaningless noise when there is nothing to modulate your interest curve.

I expect that it might work for a while, as I expect there will be some flashy set pieces that will catch people's attention and that initial lustre will keep people entertained. However, I don't think that they have given themselves that much room to really go anywhere with the show, to the point where I wouldn't be half surprised if it starts to get a bit dull or overly contrived after a couple of seasons and eventually alienates those fans, leaving the show to wither away.

[CoopsII]

Strangely, I didn't mind Dexter either. Something to do with that may have been that the series he hosted also had a guest appearance from Janick gers, testing a 1990s forerunner to Guitar Hero...

It was something of a surprise when he turned up in Snatch. I found myself wondering if it was the same Dexter Fletcher, but then, how many of them can there be?

I'd forgotten about Jannick Gers appearing on it, that was class. Fletcher wasn't that bad he just seemed to be trying too hard. I think his first movie was Bugsy Malone and the last thing I saw him in was Stardust. And then there was Press Gang which I liked.

Going back to Gamesmaster, it's mental how basic those games appear now against todays standards.

[FullMetalJack]

Going back to Gamesmaster, it's mental how basic those games appear now against todays standards.

I don't remember Gamesmaster, was it similar to Gamesworld? I vaguely remember that show, partly after watching an episode or two of the final series on Youtube.

I'm too young to remember the original format although i've heard it was a lot different.

[watka]

And I've just realised there's a third episode out today. Better catch up with that.

Having watched the 3rd episode and discussed it with several people, I think the general consensus has been that at the least, Chris Harris and Rory Read (having made their debuts on the main show) proved to be a breath of fresh air, and at the most, were excellent. In this writers' opinion, their reviews were hit the perfect medium between the over-the-top jokiness of the old 3 and the sometimes-boring approach of 5th Gear. They didn't try to imitate Clarkson et al, but at the same time were lightly amusing and thoroughly likeable.

I must say Chris Evans' parts are probably the bits I enjoy least. No-one can say they weren't expecting him to be loud and flamboyant like he is, but its still a bit grating. I do like that he harks but to the Top Gear of old a bit and he's suited to the "challenge" segments with Matt Le Blanc, but just not the parts with just him.

As for the others, Matt Le Blanc looks really comfortable in the role. His acting career probably helps. I was never a fan of Friends and was a bit sceptical about having an American presenter, but he's working out really well. He's funny yet not OTT like Evans. Eddie Jordan seemed a little bit held back in the South Africa film in Episode 2. I actually felt really sorry for him when he broke the Merc! In the old Top Gear, they would have ripped into him but instead we just had this seen of Matt Le Blanc telling him off gently and Eddie looking like a guilty puppy! Sabine Schmidt is cool and its great to have a woman on the show, but her role kind of overlaps with the Stig. I'd like to see more features of her vs the Stig if they are going to persist with both of them. Tbh, I think they should have scrapped the Stig, but they'll have to run with this slightly awkward format now.

[dinizintheoven]

I've seen the third episode now. I'd say, if they keep going the way they do, there's no reason to stop watching; it is still a car show that I can get behind. And absolutely the number one reason for this is Chris Harris.

The biggest hurdle for this new Top Gear to overcome was always going to be the meddlesome element at the BBC - you know, the sandal-wearing, lentil-munching, Guardian-reading element that desperately, desperately wanted to get rid of the seven-foot-tall oaf who didn't toe the party line and would not be seen dead doing so, and when it was an Irishman who was unfortunate enough to get in the way when his barely contained rage finally boiled over at that hotel in Yorkshire, that was all the excuse they needed. Sure, they (allegedly) begged Richard Hammond and James May to stay on and two-thirds-continue the show that had been so popular, but I suspect they knew that the other two wouldn't want to go on without the orang-utan who they still rather liked, despite knowing all too well what he could be like at his worst. With a clean slate and a free choice of new presenters: gasp, we have a woman and an ethnic minority or two on the new presenting team. Surely one of the questions being asked was, were they being picked purely on merit (as they should be), or have the producers been given a quota to fulfill by the Equality & Diversity Militia - and if so, is this the start of exactly the kind of political interference that Jeremy Clarkson has always feared was at large?

There are those of us who might have feared that the loathsome, mealy-mouthed meddlers would get their way, and from now on we would be "treated" to the dubious delights of a politically correct, ecological, caring, sharing Top Gear that blindly and unquestioningly parroted Party Political Broadcasts from the Green Party. In two minutes of the news section of the first Extra Gear, Chris Harris tore up that party agenda and allayed all those fears with an utterly undisguised love of fast, powerful, Italian cars and unrestrained contempt for ethnic peace bicycles and fairtrade G-Wizzes. Top Gear, as Jeremy once summarised it, is a show about the joy of motoring. Sure, sometimes they'd let that lapse a bit when the script called for more contrived cocking about than was necessary, once a series they'd say "we've accidentally made a car show!", but the show never totally lost that focus on the joy of motoring. The attempt to satirise the holier-than-thou electric car brigade with the Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust fell flat on its face - because it wasn't about the joy of motoring, it was about the complete opposite, done with all the ham-fisted unsubtlety of Clawfinger trying to make an anti-racist song (and seriously, don't go looking for that if you value having reasonable blood pressure). "The joy of motoring", let us never forget, is something that is anathema to the Marxist public-transport-über-alles faction, and something they would have utterly annihilated at the push of a button if they could. And I suspect they were all crying into their vegan, gluten-free grass juice when Chris Harris first opened his mouth and not the words they wanted to hear fell out.

Rory Reid is doing a good job as well - and though we might all have said "who?" when he was first announced, I think it's his journalistic background that is serving him well. After all, it never did Messrs. Clarkson and May any harm, did it? Thing is, given that he isn't quite as unhinged as the trio who have recently left, I could just as easily see him on Fifth Gear - or, if he'd been 15 years older, he might have been given the Top Gear gig in the previous post-Clarkson period from 1999-2001.

Now for a bit more on The Grand Tour, specifically Mario's idea that it might stagnate rapidly given that it's essentially a series entirely comprising Top Gear Mark Two Special Road Trip Editions (or at least that's the way it looks). I don't think the show will last all that long. Essentially, it's a programme that none of the presenters had to make - they're doing it because they want to, rather than because they need to. With the pedigree that the three of them bring from the 12-year stint turning Top Gear Mark Two into a global phenomenon, Amazon will throw as much money at them as they want, and they'll keep going until the presenters decide enough is enough. If there are five annual series, then by the time the fifth of those is shown in 2020, Jeremy Clarkson will be 60 years old, and likely as not, he'll retire - his body might not stand up to "a series of challenges" by then. Richard Hammond, unthinkable as it might once have been, will be 51. James May will be 57, even if a lot of people might consider him to be mentally beyond that age already. None of them will ever have to work again; the chances are, they could all have quit for good after The Yorkshire Hotel Incident and would still have wished for nothing for the rest of their lives. Jeremy, though, couldn't possibly countenance the thought of his career ending on a sour note, and exactly the kind of sour note that all his detractors had been waiting 25 years to happen. However old he is when The Grand Tour comes to a close, whether he's completed six decades or not and has gone completely grey and bald, he will be retiring entirely on his terms, not anyone else's, particularly someone who's had more agendas against him than there are cubic centimetres in a Dodge Viper's cylinders.

[CoopsII]

<snigger>

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/06/28/sometimes-chris-evan-seems-forget-hes-tv-radio/

[CoopsII]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36707266

Ahem

[dr-baker]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36707266

Ahem

So basically, he is this version's Jason Dawe, leaving after just one series. Would love to see Jenson take part, but only after his motor racing career has come to a natural end. Although they have enough presenters to keep the show going until Jenson has retired from the day job. [Engage Baker mode]Would love to see Sabine be main co-host alongside Matt from next series onwards.[/Disengage Baker mode]

[DemocalypseNow]

I'm not sure they need to change much else, really. Just have Harris and Reid step-up to form two-thirds of the main presenting team alongside LeBlanc.

The one time in the entire series there seemed like their might be any sign of actual, genuine chemistry was the final episode of Extra Gear. When LeBlanc was on the main show he seemed a little stiff, perhaps because wasn't comfortable. With Evans nowhere to be seen, he loosened up a bit...the old style format likely helped as well, everyone on the seats around the TV like in the old days.

They tried to be different, but changed the things that should have stayed the same, and kept the things that should have been gotten rid of, it seems.

[madmark1974]

For those of you with Amazon Prime, the first episode of The Grand Tour is available from today.

I've watched it, and it was pretty good, pretty much like an average episode of old 'new' Top Gear. Also, watch out for a guest appearance by an F1 reject ...

[DemocalypseNow]

For those of you with Amazon Prime, the first episode of The Grand Tour is available from today.

I've watched it, and it was pretty good, pretty much like an average episode of old 'new' Top Gear. Also, watch out for a guest appearance by an F1 reject ...

It's like Top Gear on a Hollywood budget, and yet it isn't any better than it used to be.

I'm starting to think that Top Gear minus Evans may end up being better to watch than The Grand Tour. It was just too samey. The features were the same as always, and the in-studio stuff was actually pretty dreary. I can appreciate the effort and difficulty of putting together the opening sequence, but the in-studio stuff was pretty dreadful given the relative experience and budget of all involved.

[andrew]

For those of you with Amazon Prime, the first episode of The Grand Tour is available from today.

I've watched it, and it was pretty good, pretty much like an average episode of old 'new' Top Gear. Also, watch out for a guest appearance by an F1 reject ...

It is also available free across the Internet, the legality of these streams however is rather questionable

[Rob Dylan]

I enjoyed it, though some others seemed not to. Some great segments and usual good banter, though a little too long. I like the contrast between this and the latest season of Top Gear: in the latter it's made up of a large mix of experts and presenters, whilst the Grand Tour feels very much like their show. Clarkson, Hammond & May seem in control of where the show is going, and I look forward to watching the season as it goes on

[tommykl]

The new series of Top Gear has begun, with two episodes aired. I like it. LeBlanc, Harris and Reid have some chemistry going on, and they've ironed out most of the issues from the last series.

[dr-baker]

The new series of Top Gear has begun, with two episodes aired. I like it. LeBlanc, Harris and Reid have some chemistry going on, and they've ironed out most of the issues from the last series.

My only disappointment with the new series so far (only seen episode one, watching episode 2 soon) is the disappearance of Sabine 'Queen of the Nurburgring' Schmitz. Otherwise, it works well.

[andrew]

The new series of Top Gear has begun, with two episodes aired. I like it. LeBlanc, Harris and Reid have some chemistry going on, and they've ironed out most of the issues from the last series.

My only disappointment with the new series so far (only seen episode one, watching episode 2 soon) is the disappearance of Sabine 'Queen of the Nurburgring' Schmitz. Otherwise, it works well.

She'll appear in episode 3.

[dr-baker]

The new series of Top Gear has begun, with two episodes aired. I like it. LeBlanc, Harris and Reid have some chemistry going on, and they've ironed out most of the issues from the last series.

My only disappointment with the new series so far (only seen episode one, watching episode 2 soon) is the disappearance of Sabine 'Queen of the Nurburgring' Schmitz. Otherwise, it works well.

She'll appear in episode 3.

[dinizintheoven]

The new series of Top Gear has begun, with two episodes aired. I like it. LeBlanc, Harris and Reid have some chemistry going on, and they've ironed out most of the issues from the last series.

Top Gear Mark II did have some early instalment weirdness (beyond Jason Dawe), but the show we all knew and recognised and which became a huge hit didn't really take its proper form until its third series. Mark III, I think they've got right at the second time of asking. Which, given the huge reputation that Mark II built up, they had to.

I reckon we might be watching Chris Harris and Rory Reid in some form or another ten years from now, even if there's no longer any such thing as TV.

[dr-baker]

Sabine Schmitz for the last two weeks, and in next week's episode too, makes for a happy Mr Baker...

[andrew]

Sabine Schmitz for the last two weeks, and in next week's episode too, makes for a happy Mr Baker...

Haha. She seems to be better as a driving guest than a main presenter in my opinion. She's been good this series.

[watka]

Sabine Schmitz for the last two weeks, and in next week's episode too, makes for a happy Mr Baker...

Haha. She seems to be better as a driving guest than a main presenter in my opinion. She's been good this series.

Eddie Jordan however was as unfunny as ever. He just seems like a confused old man.

[dr-baker]

Eddie Jordan however was as unfunny as ever. He just seems like a confused old man.

Agreed. When Sabine and Chris both muttered under their breath that they didn't want Eddie partnered with them, I was wondering how serious they were. No smoke without fire?

[Barbazza]

Eddie Jordan however was as unfunny as ever. He just seems like a confused old man.

I only saw the last 5 minutes, and that was enough to make me wonder whether he knew where he was. I don't think he said a word in the bit I saw, didn't bother to say goodbye at the end like all the others did, and seemed to be looking around wondering which camera was on most of the time.

See also his dribbling nonsense in the Tommy Byrne documentary, and the fact that C4 seem to be keeping him off the coverage as much as possible (thank goodness) and the world seems to be in line with my way of thinking for years - that he is bloody clueless.

[dr-baker]

Reading some of the comments above is interesting. The show really seems to have settled down and found its feet with LeBlanc, Harris and Reid, with the occasional appearance from Sabine. A shame therefore that LeBlanc will be leaving. They could do worse than have Sabine, Harris and Reid, but I wonder if the BBC will try and get a big name in nonetheless. Jenson Button would be a popular choice, but would only work with a good rapport with the others, which Jordan didn't seem to have.

Anyway, watching last week's show, when they were going on about the W12 in the Bentley Continental, and how great the car was, I couldn't help but think of the Life W12 and how great it otherwise that car was...