Most Forgettable Drivers

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 01 Feb 2015, 11:56

I didn't mind 2009 to be honest. The knockout qualifying was at its peak that season due to how close the whole grid was.

It's a travesty that the best driver in the sport had to drive a car as bad as the R29, without someone of Alonso's caliber, they'd have lost 8th to Force India.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 01 Feb 2015, 14:57

FullMetalJack wrote:I didn't mind 2009 to be honest. The knockout qualifying was at its peak that season due to how close the whole grid was.

It's a travesty that the best driver in the sport had to drive a car as bad as the R29, without someone of Alonso's caliber, they'd have lost 8th to Force India.

And regarding how Piquet Jr. and Grosjean fared, without Alonso, I'm sure Renault would have scored 0 points that year.

TBH despite the mixed results I think 2009 wasn't a great year. If it had more winning drivers/teams e.g Force India, Williams, Toyota which was possible and Button failed to dominate like he did in the early stages, it would have been as good if not better than 2008 or 2012.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 02 Feb 2015, 18:22

Something I did read about 2009 that I thought was a great statistic - every team bar one (Toro Rosso) scored at least one of a pole, a podium or a fastest lap.

Pepsibottle1 · Post by **Pepsibottle1** » 26 Mar 2015, 14:16

Ralph Firman sure passed quietly, didn't he?

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 27 Mar 2015, 19:51

I think so.

From F1 Rejects perspective, he is important because it was his injury that made way for HWNSNBM's debut!

GerhardTalger · Post by **GerhardTalger** » 02 Apr 2015, 14:10

Well, I think there are few forgettable drivers from 1996 onwards. Either they put in some stunning (Marques in 96, Winkelhock) performances or some pretty rejectful ones (Yoong, Albers, Rosset).

Few escape this feat, notably the Minardi drivers of the final years, except from some Hungarian guy who, well, yeah, you know the drill. But Kiesa, Bruni and Friesacher won't be remembered for anything exceptional, really. Same goes for Sarrazin and Tuero pretty much. Prost also had Enge, but that's about it.

Before 96 though, there were quite the interesting names... Pedro Chaves, Claudio Langes, Michael Bartels, Toshio Suzuki, Olivier Beretta, Naoki Hattori, Mimmo Schiaterrala, Max Papis, Andrea Chiesa, Emanuele Naspetti, Paolo Barillia and Pierre-Henri Raphanel come to mind.

Actually I tend to forget that Trulli debuted at Minardi rather than at Prost, and that Burti actually drove at Jaguar in 2001 before Pedro stepped in. Also Frentzens time at Prost was quite forgettable. And then we have basically everything Salo did except for his time at Tyrell and Ferrari. And the guy looked so promising in 95, destroying Ukyo who was actually pretty good in 94.

Daddy Magnussen driving for McLaren in 95 is another thing I tend to forget, and so is Pizzonia actually driving for Williams two times in his career instead of one.

leywso · Post by **leywso** » 02 Apr 2015, 15:46

A bit harsh to list Salo amongst the other drivers mentioned in this thread.

I feel his record at Monaco- the real test of a driver- is enough alone to show his standing and performance. He scored points there in 1996, 1997, 1998 and 2000.

In fact, his 2000 season with Sauber would look very healthy under today's scoring system- he finished in the top ten twelve times in fifteen starts.

He can also lay claim to BAR's best result in 1999 (7th, in his first race), and he also scored points for Toyota twice in their first three races in 2002.

GerhardTalger · Post by **GerhardTalger** » 02 Apr 2015, 18:32

Well, I feel sorry for the guy as I do like him, but especially for his time with Tyrell. But with Sauber, it's exactly as you say, he would do good in the current era, alas finishing many times in low positions - those are the most unforgettable seasons. His Arrows year was also pretty forgettable if it wasn't for Monaco. At Toyota he did a fine job, I have to say.

But he never could do something like the early 1995 or 1996 at Arrows, Sauber or Toyota..

leywso · Post by **leywso** » 03 Apr 2015, 10:25

The thing which turned Salo's career the wrong way was probably sticking with Tyrrell into 1997- the season where the money began to run out and the team slid towards the back of the grid. This gave the likes of Trulli, Fisichella, Ralf Schumacher etc the chance to move above him in the pecking order of potential.

Spectoremg · Post by **Spectoremg** » 08 Apr 2015, 07:26

I wonder how Salo looks back on the '99 German GP? Leading a race for possibly his only win and having to move over for Irvine to score max points for a championship he didn't win anyway... in a Ferrari!! Regret springs to mind. He gets my 'big hug if I ever meet him' vote.

Rabbi Gordon · Post by **Rabbi Gordon** » 08 Apr 2015, 10:55

Spectoremg wrote:I wonder how Salo looks back on the '99 German GP? Leading a race for possibly his only win and having to move over for Irvine to score max points for a championship he didn't win anyway... in a Ferrari!! Regret springs to mind. He gets my 'big hug if I ever meet him' vote.

AFAIK, he considers himself the winner of that race and has no hard feelings towards Ferrari or Irvine, because that was what they hiredhim for and he obliged. I believe Irvine gave Salo the trophy after the ceremony and also considers Salo to be the winner.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 08 Apr 2015, 12:44

Rabbi Gordon wrote:
Spectoremg wrote:I wonder how Salo looks back on the '99 German GP? Leading a race for possibly his only win and having to move over for Irvine to score max points for a championship he didn't win anyway... in a Ferrari!! Regret springs to mind. He gets my 'big hug if I ever meet him' vote.

AFAIK, he considers himself the winner of that race and has no hard feelings towards Ferrari or Irvine, because that was what they hiredhim for and he obliged. I believe Irvine gave Salo the trophy after the ceremony and also considers Salo to be the winner.

I think that I remember reading subsequently that had he not moved over for Irvine in that race, he would not then have raced for Ferrari in sportscars. So, by obliging, it extended his career with the manufacturer, albeit in a different series.

Spectoremg · Post by **Spectoremg** » 08 Apr 2015, 15:10

Rabbi Gordon wrote:
Spectoremg wrote:I wonder how Salo looks back on the '99 German GP? Leading a race for possibly his only win and having to move over for Irvine to score max points for a championship he didn't win anyway... in a Ferrari!! Regret springs to mind. He gets my 'big hug if I ever meet him' vote.

AFAIK, he considers himself the winner of that race and has no hard feelings towards Ferrari or Irvine, because that was what they hiredhim for and he obliged. I believe Irvine gave Salo the trophy after the ceremony and also considers Salo to be the winner.

I wasn't aware of that - decent of Irvine.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 08 Apr 2015, 20:28

Also I think Irvine gave it to Salo privately, not like Schumacher/Rubens in Austria.

gnrpoison · Post by **gnrpoison** » 09 Apr 2015, 02:22

I wonder if in a few years, people will remember DiResta, Buemi, Alguersuari or Glock having raced in F1. Out of the drivers excluding those who did a few races I imagine those 4 will become forgettable. I imagine on the current grid Mehri and Stevens will not be remembered outside GPRejects fandom, for some reason I can expect Nasr or Ericsson to be come obscure.

GerhardTalger · Post by **GerhardTalger** » 09 Apr 2015, 08:38

Glock did some cute things in his Toyota stint. He took three podiums, was the reason Lewis won the WDC in 2008 (or more, if he wasn't there, we wouldn't have seen the funny scene of Ferrari celebrating and suddenly realising they didn't win), and then had that crash in Japan which looked nothing mayor but eventually gave us three years of Kobayashi at Sauber. If it wasn't for that crash, Kamui wouldn't have raced in F1.

The other three look pretty ordinary though. Di Resta was okay in his time at Force India, but nothing mayor, even in 2012, where Hulkenberg contested for podiums and victories. Buemi and Alguersuari were only at Toro Rosso, the team where every driver bar Vettel can't capitalise on good qualifying positions. That team is a good scene for boring drivers, except for Liuzzi and Speed who were actually good in binning it and the two race winners that have driven for the team.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 09 Apr 2015, 09:16

GerhardTalger wrote:Glock did some cute things in his Toyota stint. He took three podiums, was the reason Lewis won the WDC in 2008 (or more, if he wasn't there, we wouldn't have seen the funny scene of Ferrari celebrating and suddenly realising they didn't win), and then had that crash in Japan which looked nothing mayor but eventually gave us three years of Kobayashi at Sauber. If it wasn't for that crash, Kamui wouldn't have raced in F1.

The other three look pretty ordinary though. Di Resta was okay in his time at Force India, but nothing mayor, even in 2012, where Hulkenberg contested for podiums and victories. Buemi and Alguersuari were only at Toro Rosso, the team where every driver bar Vettel can't capitalise on good qualifying positions. That team is a good scene for boring drivers, except for Liuzzi and Speed who were actually good in binning it and the two race winners that have driven for the team.

I think Buemi and Alguersuari had a lot of potential for decent careers in other teams, but by being dumped by Toro Rosso in the state that they were, they stood little chance at making a comeback.

Di Resta I never thought was anything special, though I remember the only time I truly rooted for him, when he nearly got pole position at Spa in 2013. He never did all that well against his team-mates, which is surely the very first way of telling if a driver is worth it.

GerhardTalger · Post by **GerhardTalger** » 09 Apr 2015, 10:35

Buemi was really not a special driver. I can't think of him doing anything out of the ordinary, even in qualifying. Alguersuari had more potential, I guess.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 09 Apr 2015, 11:22

GerhardTalger wrote:Toro Rosso, the team where every driver bar Vettel can't capitalise on good qualifying positions.

To be fair, Toro Rosso's strategies since Vettel was promoted tend to range from mediocre to mind-bogglingly awful.

GerhardTalger wrote:Buemi was really not a special driver.

He's the WEC co-champion, and probably the fastest overall driver in Formula E. You have to remember that Red Bull is extremely picky about their drivers. From Vettel onwards, I think probably every driver that has ever driven for Toro Rosso could at least win GPs.

gnrpoison · Post by **gnrpoison** » 09 Apr 2015, 14:14

I wonder if there was more teams on the gird if the likes of Buemi, Alguersuari etc. would have had longer careers in F1, perhaps with only 20 - 22 cars back in the eighties I imagine there would be a lot more drivers with shorter careers. It is amazing that Ghinzani, Moreno, Alboreto, Alliot and some of the others managed to have a lengthy stints just because of being able to find drives. If there was more teams I wonder if some of the ex F1 alumni now in Formula E would still have F1 drives just because newer teams needed some experience.

tBone · Post by **tBone** » 09 Apr 2015, 17:28

gnrpoison wrote:I wonder if there was more teams on the gird if the likes of Buemi, Alguersuari etc. would have had longer careers in F1, perhaps with only 20 - 22 cars back in the eighties I imagine there would be a lot more drivers with shorter careers. It is amazing that Ghinzani, Moreno, Alboreto, Alliot and some of the others managed to have a lengthy stints just because of being able to find drives. If there was more teams I wonder if some of the ex F1 alumni now in Formula E would still have F1 drives just because newer teams needed some experience.

I think they would have had longer stints indeed. Just look at some of the HRT drivers, for example. De la Rosa, Liuzzi and Klien all were experienced drivers who wouldn't have had seats anymore if the grid consisted of 20 cars in those years.

By the way, has Christan Klien been mentioned as a forgettable driver? I do not recall anything remarkable from him.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 09 Apr 2015, 17:44

gnrpoison wrote:I wonder if there was more teams on the gird if the likes of Buemi, Alguersuari etc. would have had longer careers in F1, perhaps with only 20 - 22 cars back in the eighties I imagine there would be a lot more drivers with shorter careers. It is amazing that Ghinzani, Moreno, Alboreto, Alliot and some of the others managed to have a lengthy stints just because of being able to find drives. If there was more teams I wonder if some of the ex F1 alumni now in Formula E would still have F1 drives just because newer teams needed some experience.

Alboreto could have possibly had a long career regardless just due to being a championship runner up.

If there were not a high number of teams back then, there would be no way Alliot would have stayed in the sport that long.

Ghinzani possibly could if Osella was one of the hypothetical 10-12 teams.

gnrpoison · Post by **gnrpoison** » 09 Apr 2015, 22:42

FullMetalJack wrote:
gnrpoison wrote:I wonder if there was more teams on the gird if the likes of Buemi, Alguersuari etc. would have had longer careers in F1, perhaps with only 20 - 22 cars back in the eighties I imagine there would be a lot more drivers with shorter careers. It is amazing that Ghinzani, Moreno, Alboreto, Alliot and some of the others managed to have a lengthy stints just because of being able to find drives. If there was more teams I wonder if some of the ex F1 alumni now in Formula E would still have F1 drives just because newer teams needed some experience.

Alboreto could have possibly had a long career regardless just due to being a championship runner up.

If there were not a high number of teams back then, there would be no way Alliot would have stayed in the sport that long.

Ghinzani possibly could if Osella was one of the hypothetical 10-12 teams.

I imagine Alboreto would have but it is quite amazing how he still had the desire following 1990 before he left the sport. The Footwork Porsche and Lola must have been soul sapping affairs.

GerhardTalger · Post by **GerhardTalger** » 10 Apr 2015, 07:30

I always find it remarkable how promising Alboreto was on his 1982 campaign and winnin Detroit 1983 in an underpowered car (although the turbo advantage was somewhat nullified), and then suddenly, midway 1985, stopped having any good results at all.

A bit like Massa and Panis, but then again, they had a long recovery from a bad shunt. I doubt he would have driven in 1989 if it wasn't for all these teams back then.

SuzukiSwift · Post by **SuzukiSwift** » 10 Apr 2015, 14:27

I do feel really bad for Michele...he never really recovered from that crushing defeat in 1985. Why do bad things always happen to good Italian drivers?

As for Alliot, I don't know how he kept landing drives after about 1988.

Edit: Imagine a Glock-Kobayashi-Toyota superteam.

MartinJS81 · Post by **MartinJS81** » 12 Apr 2015, 21:19

Sebastien Buemi got a funny mention on the British gameshow Pointless (in which the questions are asked to 100 people beforehand and contestants are rewarded for knowing the obscure answers) - when just one of the 100 people managed to identify Buemi as (I think) a 2011 F1 driver, the host's explanation to the contestant who gave the answer was "bad luck, I'm afraid Mrs. Buemi was one of our 100 people"....

Hard to tell which current or recent drivers will be obscure in future - I can see Nasr having a decent successful career. I'm not sure Sutil will be remembered despite 7 seasons in F1, and Gutierrez surely won't.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 13 Apr 2015, 07:34

Watching Formula E last weekend reminded me about Jerome D'ambrosio. He did a full year in F1 of which I have no recollection.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 13 Apr 2015, 14:35

CoopsII wrote:Watching Formula E last weekend reminded me about Jerome D'ambrosio. He did a full year in F1 of which I have no recollection.

Yeah, I was thinking about who would be actual Pointless answers - I think d'Ambrosio is the clearest choice there.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 13 Apr 2015, 15:34

Back in 2011 or so they had the same question regarding 2010 F1 drivers. I would have won it with di Grassi, but I remember at the time Hulkenberg was also a pointless answer - surprising to me! With his return in 2012 he certainly built a following and a reputation if he didn't have one beforehand, but it shows that reputation takes time to form, and pretty much anyone with a 1-year career stands no chance at being remembered by the public.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 13 Apr 2015, 19:32

Salamander wrote:
CoopsII wrote:Watching Formula E last weekend reminded me about Jerome D'ambrosio. He did a full year in F1 of which I have no recollection.

Yeah, I was thinking about who would be actual Pointless answers - I think d'Ambrosio is the clearest choice there.

I only remember him because of the custard nickname he obtained on this very forum...

novitopoli · Post by **novitopoli** » 14 Apr 2015, 21:42

Rob Dylan wrote:Back in 2011 or so they had the same question regarding 2010 F1 drivers. I would have won it with di Grassi, but I remember at the time Hulkenberg was also a pointless answer - surprising to me! With his return in 2012 he certainly built a following and a reputation if he didn't have one beforehand, but it shows that reputation takes time to form, and pretty much anyone with a 1-year career stands no chance at being remembered by the public.

Well, if you mean by "public" "general people watching F1" and not "us people at GP Rejects" you're probably right. Still, I think Michael Andretti could somehow stand out as an exception...

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 15 Apr 2015, 19:25

dr-baker wrote:
Salamander wrote:
CoopsII wrote:Watching Formula E last weekend reminded me about Jerome D'ambrosio. He did a full year in F1 of which I have no recollection.

Yeah, I was thinking about who would be actual Pointless answers - I think d'Ambrosio is the clearest choice there.

I only remember him because of the custard nickname he obtained on this very forum...

not forgettable if you remember his spin in the pitlane....

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 22 Apr 2015, 13:17

Though I'll remember that spin in the pitlane as well, Custard's anonymity (more pronounced on that one-off race in 2012, I'd say) seems to have followed him to Formula E. The top six drivers in the standings so far have shared the six wins between them - Custard lies seventh without even standing on the podium. Who actually noticed he was driving at all?

SuzukiSwift · Post by **SuzukiSwift** » 24 Apr 2015, 20:00

Michael Bartels. He DNQ'd 4 times for Lotus in 1991 and was generally so obscure even the old website did not have a profile for him. In fact were it not for F1 Rejects team and driver profiles I don't think anybody would remember Kuwashima, Hattori, Langes or Pedro Chaves. His profile was never updated, so can anybody tell me what actually became of Claudio Langes?

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 24 Apr 2015, 20:18

SuzukiSwift wrote:Michael Bartels. He DNQ'd 4 times for Lotus in 1991 and was generally so obscure even the old website did not have a profile for him. In fact were it not for F1 Rejects team and driver profiles I don't think anybody would remember Kuwashima, Hattori, Langes or Pedro Chaves. His profile was never updated, so can anybody tell me what actually became of Claudio Langes?

The only thing we figured out is that he appeared in some touring cars some years later, but since then, we can't find any records of him. I cant remember the details, but it has been discussed here once.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 24 Apr 2015, 20:19

SuzukiSwift wrote:His profile was never updated, so can anybody tell me what actually became of Claudio Langes?

I found some French sources that, if Google Translate is to be believed, claim that he drove in Italian touring cars until the early 2000s and scored a pole position at Enna-Pergusa in 1992. There's also this topic which indicates his full name is Claudio Langes Pesenti (also confirmed by StatsF1), and that he won the 1991 Italian Superturismo championship. Under this name I found references to an Italian businessman with the same age, who has been involved in a number of holding companies.

Francis23 · Post by **Francis23** » 28 Apr 2015, 21:28

Given that i'm too lazy to check back through the thread, here's a list of drivers who I forgot were ever in F1 from 1997 onwards, apologies for the inevitable repeats of previous posts:
-Nicola Larini- Maybe he's best remembered for that podium on that weekend in 1994, but I forgot he existed at Sauber in 1997
-Norberto Fontana- I think in general I just forgot that Sauber had a 2nd car in 1997
-Tarso Marques- Two stints at Minardi, according to Wikipedia
-Esteban Tuero- Another forgettable Argentine, and given a few more years one of two forgettable 'Estebans'
-Stephane Sarrazin- All I remember is a wildly spinning Minardi, had that not happened I'm sure he'd have ended up having a half decent F1 career
-Gaston Mazzacane- Argentine Minardi/Prost pay driver, not memorable for me
-Tomas Enge- Must be an achievement to be the only Czech F1 driver to date, write off two chassis in your 3 races and still be forgotten
-Allan McNish- Well remembered as a WEC driver, less so in F1
-Ralph Firman- Easy to forget he had a drive, although of course his crash gave the greatest driver in history his debut
-Antonio Pizzonia- The only thing I can note here is that when I see his surname I get hungry
-Justin Wilson- "He came from my town don't you know" is all I say to that
-Nicolas Kiesa- Wikipedia doesn't say a lot either
-Cristiano da Matta- I don't think he was awful, just a bit anonymous
-Christian Klien- Same story as da Matta really
-Giorgio Pantano- I remember him more for his GP2 success
-Gianmaria Bruni- Not his fault, simply overshadowed by the greatest ever!
-Patrick Friesacher- Made Albers look good
-Robert Doornbos- I think it's a 'Minardi throwing the most obscure in the car' thing
-Franck Montagny- Everyone remembers Ide and Yamamoto, but how about this guy?
-Jaime Alguersuari- I remember him, but give it a little more time and I won't
-Sebastien Buemi- Thanks to him 75% of Red Bull drivers were called Sebastien/Sebastian for a short while, oh yeah and he also had that thing happen to his suspension in China, otherwise pretty anonymous
-Vitaly Petrov- Shame really as I always thought he had some talent
-Lucas di Grassi- I think of an ex GP2 driver here, not an ex F1 driver
-Jerome D'Ambrosio- Custard and pit-lane spinning! Oh yes he drove for a race in 2012 too
-Charles Pic- Two recent F1 seasons and I still forget him, oh boy
-Giedo van der Garde- Obviously he's memorable now, but prior to Australia 2015 he was pretty anonymous to me

That's about it really

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 28 Apr 2015, 23:10

Francis23 wrote:-Esteban Tuero- Another forgettable Argentine, and given a few more years one of two forgettable 'Estebans'
-Stephane Sarrazin- All I remember is a wildly spinning Minardi, had that not happened I'm sure he'd have ended up having a half decent F1 career
-Gaston Mazzacane- Argentine Minardi/Prost pay driver, not memorable for me

Ban this guy, he's a troll

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 28 Apr 2015, 23:24

Even if he has been accepted into our hearts, André Lotterer will surely be forgotten by the mainstream F1 fandom :cry:

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 29 Apr 2015, 00:55

It's easy to forget that two of the most influential figures in recent American single-seater racing all competed in Formula 1 at some point - Roger Penske and Bobby Rahal.

Penske raced at Watkins Glen in '61 and '62 at the wheel of privateer machinery, finishing 8th and 9th in each year. Meanwhile, much later, in '78, Rahal did the last two races of the season (Watkins Glen and Montreal) for Wolf, finishing 12th in the former and retiring from the latter. For many people, having two F1 apperances of any kind is a career highlight, and yet these two turned their brief F1 forays into a footnote of their motorsport careers.