The place for respectful and reverent discussion of Reject drivers and teams, whether profiled or not as yet
by fjackdaw 13 May 2009, 01:07
Do you even find yourself reflecting over past seasons, and think to yourself, "oh yeah, I forgot he ever had a race seat. Those people who either failed to do much exciting, or were just too unlikely as Formula 1 drivers to be believable. Here are some from recent years:

Ralph Firman
Allan McNish
Nicholas Kiesa
Patrick Friesacher
Robert Doornbos
Scott Speed

Any other suggestions?
by Cynon 13 May 2009, 01:50
Scott Speed's name in and of itself makes him memorable. There was a NASCAR driver named Lake Speed that was also memorable because of his name.

I'd say Vincenzo Sospiri only because he drove for MasterCard Lola, but the fact that he did drive for MasterCard Lola I think can make him memorable... likewise for Gary Brabham.

Emanuele Pirro probably makes the list. He had a couple points scores.

Ricardo Zunino
Beppe Gabbiani
Danny Ongais
Hector Rebaque

I'd say Carlo Franchi if his racing name didn't make him stand out -- Gimax.

I pretty much surfed Wikipedia to pull those names out. :P

Check out the TM Master Cup Series on Youtube...
...or check out my random retro IndyCar clips.

Dr. Helmut Marko wrote: Finally we have an Australian in the team who can start a race well and challenge Vettel.
by Yannick 13 May 2009, 06:42
Who is Nicholas Kiesa? I thought it was Andrea Kiesa who drove the FondMetal for a while?
And what was the name again of that Monegassian guy who drove the Larrousse cars for a few races in one of their final seasons? Olivier ... ?

Somehow, year-ending pay drivers in overseas races are quickly forgotten most of the time.

"I don't think we should be used to finance (the manufacturers') R&D because they will produce that engine anyway" said Monisha Kaltenborn.
"You will never see a Mercedes using a Ferrari engine or the other way round."
by thehemogoblin 13 May 2009, 06:46
Yannick wrote:Who is Nicholas Kiesa? I thought it was Andrea Kiesa who drove the FondMetal for a while?
And what was the name again of that Monegassian guy who drove the Larrousse cars for a few races in one of their final seasons? Olivier ... ?

Somehow, year-ending pay drivers in overseas races are quickly forgotten most of the time.


Two words:

Not. Deletraz.
by Faustus 13 May 2009, 08:38
Yannick wrote:Who is Nicholas Kiesa? I thought it was Andrea Kiesa who drove the FondMetal for a while?.


That would be Andrea Chiesa. Different spelling and completely unrelated.

Yannick wrote:And what was the name again of that Monegassian / Monegascan / dude from Monaco guy who drove the Larrousse cars for a few races in one of their final seasons? Olivier ... ?.


You're thinking of Olivier Beretta.
Last edited by Faustus on 13 May 2009, 08:58, edited 1 time in total.

Following Formula 1 since 1984.
Avid collector of Formula 1 season guides and reviews.
Collector of reject merchandise and 1/43rd scale reject model cars.
by Bleu 13 May 2009, 08:59
I think few years of f1 with no real success but not being really bad driver is key in this category. So mostly drivers with reject status don't qualify here.

I have to think some drivers who have had major success elsewhere and whose F1 career was quite forgettable such as Emanuele Pirro. Then some drivers who weren't that successful outside F1 either. I throw here one name who had one podium in F1 but otherwise has been mostly forgotten I think: Eric Bernard.
by chrismc_DC2 13 May 2009, 10:04
From the era when i was most into F1

Franco Forini

Andrea Chiesa...

I suspect most suggestions will be profiled on the main site though (as my 2 are :lol: )
by fjackdaw 13 May 2009, 10:25
Oh yeah, Jan Magnussen is another one. And I'd go with Franck Montagny and Luciano Burti in my list too. A lot of these other suggestions are before my time.

Nicholas Kiesa was a Danish-Russian Minardi driver who had five races in 2003 - that anyone has to ask who he was I think perhaps makes him top of the category! :)

I included Allan McNish not because he himself is forgettable, but because he has such a long and rich CV from other motorsport categories, one tends to forget his rather short and bland F1 outing, huge accident aside.
by rffp 13 May 2009, 12:07
deCrasheris wrote:Enrique Bernoldi


David Coulthard will not forget him so soon!

There were drivers that even participate in qualifying sessions for being barred at the pre-qualifying sessions, such as:
- Joachim Winklehock
- Gary Brabham
- Pedro Chaves
- Claudio Langes
- Naoki Hattori
- Enrico Bertaggia

One reject that very few remember is Julian Bailey, showed no talent in Tyrrell and Lotus, but was still able to score 1 point!

A fan of Roberto Pupo Moreno, the one and only, the legend!
by DonTirri 13 May 2009, 12:42
Giorgio Pantano!

His year in Jordan was so forgettable that I think even he has forgotten it ;:D

I got Pointed Opinions and I ain't afraid to use em!
F1rejects no.1Räikkönen and Vettel fan.
BTW, thats Räikkönen with two K's and two N's. Not Raikonnen (Raikkonen is fine if you have no umlauts though)
by fjackdaw 13 May 2009, 13:51
Scott Speed's name and stinky attitude make him memorable, but something about his unfulfilled potential and ignominious departure cause me to think, "Oh yeah, there was that American driver too". I bet he's kicking himself to this day. Be nice to people, Scott, and people will be nice back.
by Niallllll 13 May 2009, 14:35
Pretty much everyone on the first post and perhaps just add Justin wilson & Tomas Enge into the mix too.

To CarlosFereirra: Alan McNish didnt do a bad job in F1 but he also didnt do anything special to be remembered (Good or bad) He stayed mid grid for much of the season and didn't really display any brilliance or ineptitude to have really made an impact. the same goes for one or two others in that list.
by Reverie Planetarian 13 May 2009, 14:45
Ugh. I'd join in if the forgettable drivers I know weren't SO forgettable...

Some say he plans to put an S921 on the Goodwood 2012 run, and that he DOES know what Deletraz is doing.
All we know is...he's called Perry McCarthy!

...we'll never see an S921 at Goodwood, will we?
by noshpit 13 May 2009, 14:46
Ernesto Brambilla
Bill Brack
Warwick Brown
Bernd Schneider
Esteban Tuero
Justin Wilson
Alex Yoong
Franck Lagorce
Naoki Hattori
Philip Fotheringham-Parker
Vincenzo Sospiri
hungarian grand prix
pacific gp
by tristan1117 13 May 2009, 19:51
I can't remember Nichloas Kiesa at all. When I looked up his name I was like: He drove in 2003! I didn't see him at all! May I nominate:
Gianmaria Bruni
Johnny Dunfries
Cristian Danner
Christian Fittipaldi
Wilson Fittipaldi
Norberto Fontana
Patrick Friesacher
Ralf Schumacher
Nicola Larini
JJ Lehto
Swedish GP
Hideki Noda
Max Papis
Jean-Loius Schlesser
Ricardo Zonta

CoopsII wrote:On occasion I have ventured into the PMM forum but beat a hasty retreat soon after as it resembles some sort of bad acid trip in there
by Life w12 13 May 2009, 20:06
tristan1117 wrote:I can't remember Nichloas Kiesa at all. When I looked up his name I was like: He drove in 2003! I didn't see him at all! May I nominate:
Gianmaria Bruni
Johnny Dunfries
Cristian Danner
Christian Fittipaldi
Wilson Fittipaldi
Norberto Fontana
Patrick Friesacher
Ralf Schumacher
Nicola Larini
JJ Lehto
Swedish GP
Hideki Noda
Max Papis
Jean-Loius Schlesser
Ricardo Zonta

I'm pretty sure after the 88 Italian GP no one has forgotten about Jean-Loius Schlesser
by Debaser 13 May 2009, 20:47
I forgot Doornbos drove for Red Bull till just now-I only remembered him for being better than Albers who whinged about that. Zonta was forgettable, Wurz after 98 didn't do anything noteworthy.
by Frentzen127 13 May 2009, 21:43
I hadn't even heard about Ricardo Rosset until last year. Sure he made some funny stuff while in the car, especially in Tyrrell, but he is as anonymous as a driver can be.

DEPORTIVO CA... pfft hahaha can't say that with a straight face!
Misses Minardi dearly. :(
by rffp 13 May 2009, 21:49
Christian Fittipaldi will always be remembered for his "remarkable" finish in the 1993 Italian GP!

A fan of Roberto Pupo Moreno, the one and only, the legend!
by LionZoo 13 May 2009, 22:11
Considering their reputation as a team with personality, Jordan has sure employed some forgettable drivers in their last years on the grid:

Ralph Firman
Giorgio Pantano
Tiago Monteiro
Narain Karthikeyan

by Irisado 13 May 2009, 22:25
I think some good names have been put forward thus far, and I tend to agree with a lot the suggestions for those who never made it onto the grid, such as those who never passed the pre-qualifying phase.

There are a few others I would like to mention though:

Bernie Ecclestone. A lot of people tend to forget he tried to qualify for a Grand Prix once (1958 Moroccan Grand Prix I think), but he was slowest of all entrants and did not qualify.

Toshio Suzuki (no relation to Aguri as far as I know). Replaced Alliot at Larrousse for the last two races of 1993, and while he finished both of them, he wasn't exactly noticed.

Miguel Angel Guerra: Made the grid just once for Osella in 1981, and promptly crashed and broke his ankle. He was never seen in F1 again.

Jean-Marc Gounon: His outings for Minardi and Simtek don't exactly stick in the mind.

Oh, and I strongly agree with the contributor who suggested Tomas Enge. His outings for Prost in 2001 were pretty unremarkable, save for a big crash in practice at the Japanese Grand Prix.

My favourite teams: Minardi, Forti, Osella

Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente
by RejectSteve 13 May 2009, 22:38
Max Jean. Or was it Jean Max? You're forgettable when even your name is spelled wrong on the entry list.

Nissanymania! Friday has never been the same since.

The car in front is a Stefan.
by Goa 13 May 2009, 22:47
Frentzen127 wrote:I hadn't even heard about Ricardo Rosset until last year. Sure he made some funny stuff while in the car, especially in Tyrrell, but he is as anonymous as a driver can be.

The fact that I've heard the 107% rule referred to as the "Rossett Rule" somewhat frequently disqualifies him from being an easily-forgotten driver IMO. If your name becomes synonymous with a rule regarding mediocrity then I think you're at least a little memorable.

Anyway...
Corrado Fabi
Jean-Christophe Boullion
Gaston Mazzacane
Vitantonio Liuzzi (rather unfortunate that he got lost in the shuffle at STR, he had talent)
Phillippe Adams
Yannick Dalmas
Sakon Yamamoto
by RejectSteve 13 May 2009, 23:29
Goa wrote:Sakon Yamamoto
I can see where you are coming from but Sakon would have been the most memorable driver in F1 history had his head rocketed off his neck.

Nissanymania! Friday has never been the same since.

The car in front is a Stefan.
by fjackdaw 13 May 2009, 23:43
Narain Karthikeyan!! There are so many of these guys I'd forgotten about!

I don't think we can call Sakon Yamomoto forgettable, if only for F1 Rejects' coverage! And Ralf Schumacher...? But... but... he's Ralf Schumacher!!

The fact that I've heard the 107% rule referred to as the "Rosset Rule" somewhat frequently disqualifies him from being an easily-forgotten driver IMO.


Yes! And for two other reasons: putting the icing on the Spa '98 cake by keeping his foot down and smashing into the chaos at racing speed; and for his engineers swapping the first and last letters of his surname around. Popular fellow.

Who will be the future forgettable drivers of the current grid? My money's on Nakajima and Bourdais. I can barely remember them as it is.
by Goa 14 May 2009, 01:25
I can also see Kovi being something of a forgotten figure in time... at least, relative to other race winners. By that I mean he'd be more Jean-Pierre Beltoise and less Jean Alesi.
by Nuppiz 14 May 2009, 07:00
Irisado wrote:Toshio Suzuki (no relation to Aguri as far as I know). Replaced Alliot at Larrousse for the last two races of 1993, and while he finished both of them, he wasn't exactly noticed.
Indeed; I heard of him the first (and last) time when making a 1993 mod for Grand Prix Manager 2.

Eurosport broadcast for the 1990 Mexican GP prequalifying:
"The Life, it looked very lifeless yet again... in fact Bruno did one, slow lap"
Online
by Yannick 14 May 2009, 15:26
Nuppiz wrote:
Irisado wrote:Toshio Suzuki (no relation to Aguri as far as I know). Replaced Alliot at Larrousse for the last two races of 1993, and while he finished both of them, he wasn't exactly noticed.
Indeed; I heard of him the first (and last) time when making a 1993 mod for Grand Prix Manager 2.


So he's eligible to the site! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

"I don't think we should be used to finance (the manufacturers') R&D because they will produce that engine anyway" said Monisha Kaltenborn.
"You will never see a Mercedes using a Ferrari engine or the other way round."
by watka 14 May 2009, 19:55
Shinji Nakano and Cristano Da Matta weren't the most exciting drivers ever...

Watka - you know, the swimming horses guy
by Barbazza 14 May 2009, 20:46
Franck Lagorce is one of my favourites discussed so far, if only because I think he made the front cover of an F1 book.

'Racers' by Richard Williams shows a broken Ligier on the cover with the driver walking away looking absolutely downcast and I'm pretty sure it's Lagorce having crashed in the wet at Suzuka. IIRC he just aquaplaned off and I remember him getting out looking absolutely bemused and throwing his hands up in the air as if to say 'what could I do'?
I think the picture was taken just after that.

I suppose I ought to suggest one as well. Um, has anyone mentioned Max Papis?
by fjackdaw 14 May 2009, 22:21
Papis for me is memorable because I started watching right in the confusing Papis/Panis, Brudle/Blundell grid!
by DonTirri 14 May 2009, 22:41
fjackdaw wrote:Papis for me is memorable because I started watching right in the confusing Papis/Panis, Brudle/Blundell grid!


Ya think it was confusing to you?
Think about the japanese!

When Brundle and Blundell drove for Brabham in 91 and then for Ligier in 93, the japanese commentators just went "bathplug it" and just called em both "Blundel"

The fact that Japanese can't differentiate between L and R isnt just a joke, its a fact.

I got Pointed Opinions and I ain't afraid to use em!
F1rejects no.1Räikkönen and Vettel fan.
BTW, thats Räikkönen with two K's and two N's. Not Raikonnen (Raikkonen is fine if you have no umlauts though)
by RejectSteve 14 May 2009, 23:32
Massimiliano Papis had a short but forgettable F1 career (even being outqualified by Taki Inoue once) but he made a huge impact in the USA the very next year. Driving for Gianpiero Moretti, he ran qualifying-speed laps near the end of the 1996 Daytona 24 hours. The most famous event during this stint was screaming down the pitlane at 200 miles per hour in his Ferrari 333SP. Then-ESPN commentator Bob Varsha coined his nickname "Mad Max." IMSA instituted pit lane speed limits immediately following the race. :lol:

Nissanymania! Friday has never been the same since.

The car in front is a Stefan.
by noisebox 15 May 2009, 16:00
Micheal Bartels - his private life was more interseting than his F1 career, I think he dated Steffi Graf...

"will you stop him playing tennis then?", referring to Montoya's famous shoulder injury, to which Whitmarsh replied "well, it's very difficult to play tennis on a motorbike"
by rffp 15 May 2009, 18:02
noisebox wrote:Micheal Bartels - his private life was more interseting than his F1 career, I think he dated Steffi Graf...


He dated her for a long time, at least in 1997, he was still dating her.

A fan of Roberto Pupo Moreno, the one and only, the legend!

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