2011 Italian Grand Prix Discussion Thread

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 09 Sep 2011, 02:48

mario wrote: Meanwhile, on another note, it seems that Derek Daly has been chosen as the driver steward for this weekend.

This man has no understanding of what hard-but-clean racing looks like. Expect unnecessary penalties to be handed out. Side note: TERRIBLE sportscaster; irritating, spouts nonsense, clearly biased. No offense to any Irishmen on the board, love Paul DiResta, can't stand him.

Warren Hughes wrote:Even if Mercedes are quick enough to fight for the podium, or even victory, I'm sure they'll find a way to screw things up somehow.

Yes they will, and if they don't Mclaren will beat them anyway.

As for the DRS zones... The straight down into Ascari seems like quite a dangerous place for a DRS zone - The track is very narrow at that point and very undulating, and it leads into a quick corner. Besides, as was mentioned above, I'm not sure DRS will make overtaking any easier into there. I'm amazed the back straight into Parabolica isn't a DRS zone. Even if you were only going to have one zone, that's the straight I'd have chosen.

I don't think the straight into Ascari will cause nearly as many problems as you'd think, and I don't think the FIA believes there will be any overtaking there either. It WILL however allow pursuing drivers to close up on their opponents faster and set them up for an overtake down the front straight. As for the straight into Parabolica, I agree; probably not a bad idea. That said, I don't know how much overtaking has happened there in recent years, and I imagine being on the wrong line going into that corner (trying to pass outside and into the marbles) could spell disaster for the overtaking car.

Post by **mario** » 09 Sep 2011, 07:18

James1978 wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Doesn't matter. As Lotus will suffer ANOTHER double dnf thanks to Hydraulics/bits falling off/witchcraft.

Monza's never a high attrition race, they'll probably be the only retirements.

On the subject of Lotus, since Senna will probably have the seat for the rest of the season (provided he isn't replaced by RRRMMMNNNN GGGRRRRSSSSJJJJNNNN), he must at least unrejectify himself to have any credibility.

Actually I think that's going to be pretty darn difficult for him as usually the top 4 or 5 places at least will be Red Bulls/McLarens/Ferraris. Then maybe hope the Mercedes hit trouble too. I'd actually be pleasantly surprised if Senna unrejectifies himself.

I'd agree here too - Monza hasn't been the most successful hunting ground for Renault in recent years in terms of points, and even though they were more competitive in Spa thanks to a series of updates that they've bolted onto the car, you'd still expect Mercedes to remain ahead of them in low downforce configuration, as well as Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren.
Admittedly, whilst attrition is not normally especially high, there is always the chance of a major first corner pile up, given how drivers will inevitably run into each other into the first chicane, so perhaps he might be fortunate enough to end up in a high enough finishing position - but, to be honest, I wouldn't expect the track layout to favour Renault.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 09 Sep 2011, 09:34

Fastest FP1 time: Hamilton 1:23.865

107% time: 1:29.736

missed by; Chandhok (+0.432), Ricciardo (+0.873), Liuzzi (+0.883), Glock (+1.316), D'Ambrosio (+2.163)

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 09 Sep 2011, 09:37

As dominating as that sounds, Hamilton was a full second quicker than Button in 2nd, who in turn was half a second quicker than Vettel in 3rd. So don't read too much into it.

Happy for F.India though. Sutil ended the session 5th. 6th to 10th were seperated by less than a tenth!

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 09 Sep 2011, 12:09

Ooh, Buemi's had a big one in FP2...

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 09 Sep 2011, 12:49

It's like quiz time on BBC Five live coverage!

"When was the last time both Redbull's finished outside the points?"
They call Australia 2009, but Vettel DNF!

"Who was the last Italian to have a full season in Ferrari?"
Maurice Hamilton says Alboreto.

"Who has done the most laps without scoring a point?"
Croft: Well no idea on that one.
Me: BADOER, IT's BADOER!!!!!!!!!!!

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 09 Sep 2011, 12:55

Shadaza wrote:"When was the last time both Redbull's finished outside the points?"
They call Australia 2009, but Vettel DNF!

"Who was the last Italian to have a full season in Ferrari?"
Maurice Hamilton says Alboreto.

1. Vettel was classified 13th in Australia with three wheels on his wagon. If you don't count that then it's the 2008 Chinese GP
2. It is Alboreto in 1988

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 09 Sep 2011, 16:26

F1000X wrote:No offense to any Irishmen on the board, love Paul DiResta, can't stand him.

Words fail me.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 09 Sep 2011, 16:36

And those well known welsh drivers Cymwy Cobauashu and Nyraen Carthyceian.

Post by **Londoner** » 09 Sep 2011, 17:17

shinji wrote:
F1000X wrote:No offense to any Irishmen on the board, love Paul DiResta, can't stand him.

Words fail me.

Oh dear!

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 09 Sep 2011, 19:49

East Londoner wrote:
shinji wrote:
F1000X wrote:No offense to any Irishmen on the board, love Paul DiResta, can't stand him.

Words fail me.

Oh dear!

He's just pissed off an American has only been world champion once, while fiece rivals and neighbours Canada have two, with Jacques Villeneuve and Phil Hill!

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 09 Sep 2011, 23:12

kostas22 wrote:He's just pissed off an American has only been world champion once, while fiece rivals and neighbours Canada have two, with Jacques Villeneuve and Phil Hill!

That's right :lol:

Now what the heck happened to Nico Rosberg? Even Schumacher managed to beat the stuffings out of him in FP2... what with Schuey third in the charts...

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 09 Sep 2011, 23:23

JeremyMcClean wrote:Now what the heck happened to Nico Rosberg? Even Schumacher managed to beat the stuffings out of him in FP2... what with Schuey third in the charts...

I wish I knew. I have just made a huge mistake putting him as my prediction to win the race

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 10 Sep 2011, 02:13

kostas22 wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:Now what the heck happened to Nico Rosberg? Even Schumacher managed to beat the stuffings out of him in FP2... what with Schuey third in the charts...

I wish I knew. I have just made a huge mistake putting him as my prediction to win the race

They had a problem with the KERS that required a replacement, but that shouldn't explain why he's slower than Liuzzi on the timecharts.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 10 Sep 2011, 05:17

JeremyMcClean wrote:
kostas22 wrote:He's just pissed off an American has only been world champion once, while fiece rivals and neighbours Canada have two, with Jacques Villeneuve and Phil Hill!

That's right

Di Resta isn't Irish. I get it. An honest mistake.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 10 Sep 2011, 06:50

Rosberg skipped low-fuel runs because of his problems.

Post by **mario** » 10 Sep 2011, 10:03

LionZoo wrote:
kostas22 wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:Now what the heck happened to Nico Rosberg? Even Schumacher managed to beat the stuffings out of him in FP2... what with Schuey third in the charts...

I wish I knew. I have just made a huge mistake putting him as my prediction to win the race

They had a problem with the KERS that required a replacement, but that shouldn't explain why he's slower than Liuzzi on the timecharts.

That said, Rosberg has made amends for that today by topping the time sheets, with Schumacher backing up his strong form by setting the 3rd best time (and Ferrari might be worried that Alonso's best time on soft tyres still can't beat the time set by Schumacher, despite the fact that Schumacher is not entirely happy with his set up).

Also, from Kravitz, it seems that Webber is in a slightly different position to everybody else as he is the only driver from the leading three teams not to use a fresh engine for this race - it might put him at a very slight disadvantage here.

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 10 Sep 2011, 11:58

Not using a fresh engine at the toughest circuit for engines? Bloody hell that's brave

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 10 Sep 2011, 12:09

Maldonado has done it again...

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 10 Sep 2011, 12:12

Shizuka wrote:Maldonado has done it again...

I honestly cannot remember seeing anyone ever binning it towards the inside of the Parabolica before :lol:

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 10 Sep 2011, 12:12

Maldonado is very crash prone ain't he? be lucky to get back out in that state

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 10 Sep 2011, 12:22

Toro Rossos seem really weak around Monza. Buemi finished 17th in Q1, Alguersuari 18th and out...

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 10 Sep 2011, 12:23

Toro Rosso's not fast in qualifying, but algersuari has started there three times and came in the points, so he won't be too worried. Also brilliant by daniel ricciardo to out-qualify Liuzzi :lol:

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 10 Sep 2011, 12:24

RICCIARDO WINNAHS!

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 10 Sep 2011, 12:25

Vitantonio, Daniel is faster than you and brings more money to the team. Can you confirm you understand this message?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 10 Sep 2011, 12:27

Trulli out-qualifying Kovalainen. No complaining about power steering either.

MaxZero · Post by **MaxZero** » 10 Sep 2011, 12:43

Have they always used Hot Air Balloons at Monza? Certainly says something about the climate, the static ariel view it gave was quite nice too

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 10 Sep 2011, 12:44

Senna sneaks in by the skin of his teeth, unlucky for Di Resta

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 10 Sep 2011, 12:44

Senna beat Di Resta by NOT two hundredth of a second, instead with 0.006. Martin Brundle is looking at something else...

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 10 Sep 2011, 13:03

Hold on! Why the hell did Button slow down and enter the pits when his time was going to get pole?? I mean, yeah, Seb's time would have taken pole anyway, but still!

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 10 Sep 2011, 13:08

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Hold on! Why the hell did Button slow down and enter the pits when his time was going to get pole?? I mean, yeah, Seb's time would have taken pole anyway, but still!

Brundle said his time wasn't good enough :?:

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 10 Sep 2011, 13:08

eagleash wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Hold on! Why the hell did Button slow down and enter the pits when his time was going to get pole?? I mean, yeah, Seb's time would have taken pole anyway, but still!

Brundle said his time wasn't good enough

That doesn't make sense. The screens were showing him inside all the sector times, even if it was just by a tenth or two.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 10 Sep 2011, 13:10

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
eagleash wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Hold on! Why the hell did Button slow down and enter the pits when his time was going to get pole?? I mean, yeah, Seb's time would have taken pole anyway, but still!

Brundle said his time wasn't good enough

That doesn't make sense. The screens were showing him inside all the sector times, even if it was just by a tenth or two.

He maybe lost it in the final sector.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 10 Sep 2011, 13:11

FINGERS EVERYWHERE!

Some people are going to be upset. I like that. :lol:

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 10 Sep 2011, 13:12

fjackdaw wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
eagleash wrote:
Brundle said his time wasn't good enough

That doesn't make sense. The screens were showing him inside all the sector times, even if it was just by a tenth or two.

He maybe lost it in the final sector.

Agreed; doesn't add up.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 10 Sep 2011, 13:14

I didn't see anything. If anything, he actually got the tow from Webber who was ahead of him. Nevermind, what's done is done.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 10 Sep 2011, 13:18

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:I didn't see anything. If anything, he actually got the tow from Webber who was ahead of him. Nevermind, what's done is done.

Did Hamilton abort his final lap as well? Maybe McLaren spotted something.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 10 Sep 2011, 13:20

eagleash wrote:Did Hamilton abort his final lap as well? Maybe McLaren spotted something.

Yeah, he did, but he simply screwed up the Variante della Roggia and ruined both his lap and the tire. Button had no such mistake, at least none that we know of.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 10 Sep 2011, 13:20

eagleash wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:I didn't see anything. If anything, he actually got the tow from Webber who was ahead of him. Nevermind, what's done is done.

Did Hamilton abort his final lap as well? Maybe McLaren spotted something.

Hamilton locked it up big time in the early part of his lap. He was behind Button on track.

Post by **mario** » 10 Sep 2011, 13:26

Well, it's a shame in a way for Button if he did make a mistake in the final sector, since although it is very unlikely that he could have beaten Vettel, being about .15s up in the first two sectors would have given him a good chance of at least outqualifying Hamilton and starting on the front row. It is odd, though - there wasn't anything apparent on the TV footage or on the clock that indicated anything was amiss, so I can only assume that something else was up there.

As for Webber, well, it looks like he was hit by KERS problems during that last session at just the wrong time (he stated after the session that his KERS was only working intermittently), which might well have cost Webber a place to Alonso - and speaking of him, even despite Ferrari's slipstreaming tactics, it seems that they are just not as quick as you would have expected given that they've been reasonably strong at home in recent seasons.

Also, Mercedes seem to be going for a slightly unusual strategy for their drivers - Rosberg's tactic of using the harder tyre for the first stint is an interesting curve ball, and might well pay off, though it seems that Schumacher's going for the more traditional option. Still, despite the fact that they aren't that quick overall, I wonder how they'll fare in the race, because their first sector times and speed trap figures are impressive (I think that Rosberg has the fastest first sector time, after all).