Craig Cod is Back!/PURE Engine

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 31 Jan 2012, 11:47

I can't see McLaren going for an alternative route if they don't have control over the engine design. That is, either go for another manufacturer's engine, or basically buy out an existing operation (ie., Cosworth, or PURE Crap, sorry Corp) to develop engines according to McLaren's needs (more or less what Walkinshaw did with Hart back in the day).

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 31 Jan 2012, 17:16

tristan1117 wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97227

Which obviously means that we will be seeing a McLaren-PURE on the grid for 2014.

I think this is McLaren's PR-polite way of saying, "What? Naaaa, those guys are crap. Moving on..."

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 02 Feb 2012, 02:31

I've seen some talk about PURE being founded buy some "outsiders" this might be Mr.RedBull himself, VW or others... who knows.

Post by **mario** » 02 Feb 2012, 09:22

Myrvold wrote:I've seen some talk about PURE being founded buy some "outsiders" this might be Mr.RedBull himself, VW or others... who knows.

There has been some chatter around various forums speculating on mystery backers for PURE - some have suggested Peugeot given that a number of employees at PURE used to work on the Peugeot sports car program, with the announcement that PURE will be taking over some of Peugeot's sports car facilities adding fuel to that fire. Mind you, if Peugeot can't afford their sports car program despite the fact they were winning almost every race, why would they want to back an F1 engine program which could see costs more than double for no guarantee of success?
As for VW, I think it is unlikely that they will want to enter F1 under their current management who are known to be against the idea (since they believe that an F1 engine program would offer a poor investment to publicity ratio) - part of the reason why they've suggested they might come into the sport in 2018 is because it is expected that by then the existing CEO's will have departed the company and the upcoming CEO's are known to be much keener on F1 than the current group.
I'd also be surprised if Red Bull would really want to sink that much investment into a separate engine company given that they are now the official Renault works team - if you've already got the full backing of Renault, why would you want to build your own engine? And if Mateschitz did want his own engine division, why would he want to do it in such a secretive way given Red Bull's love of publicity?

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 03 Feb 2012, 06:59

mario wrote:
Myrvold wrote:I've seen some talk about PURE being founded buy some "outsiders" this might be Mr.RedBull himself, VW or others... who knows.

There has been some chatter around various forums speculating on mystery backers for PURE - some have suggested Peugeot given that a number of employees at PURE used to work on the Peugeot sports car program, with the announcement that PURE will be taking over some of Peugeot's sports car facilities adding fuel to that fire. Mind you, if Peugeot can't afford their sports car program despite the fact they were winning almost every race, why would they want to back an F1 engine program which could see costs more than double for no guarantee of success?
As for VW, I think it is unlikely that they will want to enter F1 under their current management who are known to be against the idea (since they believe that an F1 engine program would offer a poor investment to publicity ratio) - part of the reason why they've suggested they might come into the sport in 2018 is because it is expected that by then the existing CEO's will have departed the company and the upcoming CEO's are known to be much keener on F1 than the current group.
I'd also be surprised if Red Bull would really want to sink that much investment into a separate engine company given that they are now the official Renault works team - if you've already got the full backing of Renault, why would you want to build your own engine? And if Mateschitz did want his own engine division, why would he want to do it in such a secretive way given Red Bull's love of publicity?

Mario, why you say that RBR is now Renault works team? Maybe since the Renault went became Lotus?

Post by **mario** » 03 Feb 2012, 10:20

FMecha wrote:
mario wrote:
Myrvold wrote:I've seen some talk about PURE being founded buy some "outsiders" this might be Mr.RedBull himself, VW or others... who knows.

There has been some chatter around various forums speculating on mystery backers for PURE - some have suggested Peugeot given that a number of employees at PURE used to work on the Peugeot sports car program, with the announcement that PURE will be taking over some of Peugeot's sports car facilities adding fuel to that fire. Mind you, if Peugeot can't afford their sports car program despite the fact they were winning almost every race, why would they want to back an F1 engine program which could see costs more than double for no guarantee of success?
As for VW, I think it is unlikely that they will want to enter F1 under their current management who are known to be against the idea (since they believe that an F1 engine program would offer a poor investment to publicity ratio) - part of the reason why they've suggested they might come into the sport in 2018 is because it is expected that by then the existing CEO's will have departed the company and the upcoming CEO's are known to be much keener on F1 than the current group.
I'd also be surprised if Red Bull would really want to sink that much investment into a separate engine company given that they are now the official Renault works team - if you've already got the full backing of Renault, why would you want to build your own engine? And if Mateschitz did want his own engine division, why would he want to do it in such a secretive way given Red Bull's love of publicity?

Mario, why you say that RBR is now Renault works team? Maybe since the Renault went became Lotus?

I'll have to see if I can find the statement from Renault Sport (as the engine manufacturing division is part of Renault Sport), but they have stated in the past that they are going to be giving Red Bull full factory support for their engines and is now officially the works team for Renault's engine division whilst it appears that the former Renault team is being downgraded to a customer team.
It's in part because Renault seem to believe that it is much more effective to have their name and brand associated with Red Bull - they are also partially sponsoring Red Bull in the process - rather than Lotus, especially since the Lotus team is now branded with the name of another automotive manufacturer.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 07 Mar 2012, 12:40

Craig Bollock, sorry, Pollock said that his engines are in such advanced state that they could race in 2013. Unfortunately the rules say otherwise as he admits it. The sport dictated it was in 2014... Damn dictators! PURE (which means mashed potatoes in Portuguese, at least if we read it with a certain accent), 2013, fo'real! And Mr Pollock is not in a hurry to seal contracts with some teams because with the 3 suppliers on the sport being able to supply only 3 teams each, it leaves out three very, very 'fortunate' teams who will be forced... ahem... will gladly chose having that piece of very advanced engineering on the back of their cars.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97885

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 07 Mar 2012, 13:05

I really hope Cosworth stay in/come back because given the choice between Cosworth and PURE its Cosworth in a heartbeat.

That would also make Pollock look like an idiot when no one buys his engine, which is another bonus.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 07 Mar 2012, 14:30

DanielPT wrote:PURE (which means mashed potatoes in Portuguese, at least if we read it with a certain accent)

It also means that in Spanish, as long as you use one of these ortographical signs unknown at the other side of the English Channel... "puré" :lol:

Post by **Ataxia** » 07 Mar 2012, 15:15

I'd laugh if someone actually took a gamble on PURE and the engine turned out to be pretty damn good...

Post by **mario** » 07 Mar 2012, 16:53

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:I'd laugh if someone actually took a gamble on PURE and the engine turned out to be pretty damn good...

Somebody within Toyota's Motorsport Group has taken PURE seriously enough to provide them with access to their facilities in Cologne - Pollock has announced that PURE will be relocating some of its operations (their headquarters will remain in France but most of the design and manufacturing work will take place in Cologne), where they will be using Toyota's old test benches and facilities to construct and test the initial prototypes. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97884
Now, we have to assume that PURE have given Toyota fairly firm assurances that they can afford to pay them for their facilities - we also have to assume that they would not have been cheap as Toyota's facilities were routinely rated the best in the F1 world (and still are - TMG now has a fairly profitable side line as a consultant to the remaining teams). PURE's current facilities are hardly shabby - there was talk of them acquiring some of the facilities (and possibly some engineers) from Peugeot's Le Mans team after they shut down their operations, so to acquire those facilities and more suggests that Pollock is not short of ambition right now.
The other point is that, assuming somebody does buy his engines, Pollock won't be seeing any money coming in from engine sales for at least another year - how has Pollock been able to finance this recent deal? The cost of developing the engines at, or possible ahead, of the manufacturer entries (only Mercedes has indicated that it is anywhere near having a prototype ready, but they will probably not fire up their engine until June), added to this recent spate of acquisitions and his curiously laid back approach to acquiring customers (as other have pointed out Pollock seems curiously confident that Cosworth cannot produce anything to rival him) suggests that Pollock feels he is pretty secure financially. If that is the case, where is the money coming from?

Mister Fungus · Post by **Mister Fungus** » 07 Mar 2012, 18:39

mario wrote:If that is the case, where is the money coming from?

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 07 Mar 2012, 23:09

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:I'd laugh if someone actually took a gamble on PURE and the engine turned out to be pretty damn good...

So will I, actually. In fact, with the constant cheering on of HRT at the pointed expense of Manorvirginmarussia (hang on, isn't the spirit of this forum to support the teams at the back in preference to those further up the grid?), I'd crack open the champagne if Marussia signed a deal with PURE and suddenly they were demolishing half the field... or more.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 07 Mar 2012, 23:50

dinizintheoven wrote:
BaconLettuceNinja wrote:I'd laugh if someone actually took a gamble on PURE and the engine turned out to be pretty damn good...

So will I, actually. In fact, with the constant cheering on of HRT at the pointed expense of Manorvirginmarussia (hang on, isn't the spirit of this forum to support the teams at the back in preference to those further up the grid?), I'd crack open the champagne if Marussia signed a deal with PURE and suddenly they were demolishing half the field... or more.

So would I!

And I agree on the forum spirit comment, it's something that does grate me slightly, because I cheer on HRT just as much as cheering on my local boys, but ultimately it's at the discretion of each member what they choose to do. Free world and all that!

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 08 Mar 2012, 11:35

AndreaModa wrote:
dinizintheoven wrote:
BaconLettuceNinja wrote:I'd laugh if someone actually took a gamble on PURE and the engine turned out to be pretty damn good...

So will I, actually. In fact, with the constant cheering on of HRT at the pointed expense of Manorvirginmarussia (hang on, isn't the spirit of this forum to support the teams at the back in preference to those further up the grid?), I'd crack open the champagne if Marussia signed a deal with PURE and suddenly they were demolishing half the field... or more.

So would I!

And I agree on the forum spirit comment, it's something that does grate me slightly, because I cheer on HRT just as much as cheering on my local boys, but ultimately it's at the discretion of each member what they choose to do. Free world and all that!

If PURE went and demolished half the field or more with Marussia, given the spirit of the forum, we would need to stop cheering for them (no rejects any more) and take down the Marussia thread. I want PURE to be rejectful first for then I can cheer on their improvements, just like I did for Stewart (who eventually went on to win a race). Besides, plucky reject teams don't talk big to start with. Those who do are, a) not plucky at all, so less colourful b) crazy, which is more on the side of laughable. Two of the best examples of plucky reject teams are Super Aguri and Minardi which are still beloved. For the ones not so plucky, we have, as examples, Force India and Caterham who don't have half the attention HRT and Marussia have and finally for the crazy part we have Mastercard Lola, still a laughing stock.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 08 Mar 2012, 17:19

But Mastercard Lola still achieved more than USF1 and Stefan GP ever did...

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 08 Mar 2012, 18:06

dr-baker wrote:But Mastercard Lola still achieved more than USF1 and Stefan GP ever did...

Appearing in a qualifying session? :lol:

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 08 Mar 2012, 18:20

dr-baker wrote:But Mastercard Lola still achieved more than USF1 and Stefan GP ever did...

They also had a lot more resources and experience from racing which counter balances those achievements.

Post by **Ataxia** » 08 Mar 2012, 18:40

Had the FIA given Stefan USF1's entry, then they would probably be racing now.

Minardi Man · Post by **Minardi Man** » 08 Mar 2012, 19:02

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:Had the FIA given Stefan USF1's entry, then they would probably be racing now.

And Villenueve would Of course be world champion, rather than finger boy :lol:

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 08 Mar 2012, 22:40

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:Had the FIA given Stefan USF1's entry, then they would probably be racing now.

Seriously? :lol:

Post by **Ataxia** » 10 Mar 2012, 10:07

dr-baker wrote:
BaconLettuceNinja wrote:Had the FIA given Stefan USF1's entry, then they would probably be racing now.

Seriously?

Well, they had the TF110 ready didn't they? Plus, they had some kind of partnership with Toyota Motorsports. It's definitely feasible...plus they probably would have had Serbian government backing.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 10 Mar 2012, 10:24

Stefan was a joke I think.

Post by **Londoner** » 10 Mar 2012, 11:05

Ferrim wrote:Stefan was a joke I think.

Didn't they claim that they sent a container full of parts to Bahrain? I wonder if it ever made it to Bahrain, and how many of those 'parts' came off the 2002 Arrows and 2001 Prost :lol:

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 10 Mar 2012, 15:24

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
BaconLettuceNinja wrote:Had the FIA given Stefan USF1's entry, then they would probably be racing now.

Seriously?

Well, they had the TF110 ready didn't they? Plus, they had some kind of partnership with Toyota Motorsports. It's definitely feasible...plus they probably would have had Serbian government backing.

In my opinion, they would have had the same level of success and longitivity as Mastercard Lola...

Post by **mario** » 10 Mar 2012, 15:52

East Londoner wrote:
Ferrim wrote:Stefan was a joke I think.

Didn't they claim that they sent a container full of parts to Bahrain? I wonder if it ever made it to Bahrain, and how many of those 'parts' came off the 2002 Arrows and 2001 Prost

Stefan did claim that he had sent parts to Bahrain, although IIRC there were questions over whether he did actually ever send anything to Bahrain (I am not sure if the Bahrain port authorities did ever record receiving any containers from Stefan).
As for the deal with Toyota Motorsport Group, Toyota's position seems to have been that they would consider offering Stefan technical support provided a) that the FIA provided Stefan with a guaranteed entry and b) that Stefan could provide proof that he had secured funding for his team. Given the FIA made it clear very early on that they would not give Stefan an entry slot, Toyota were effectively saying "No" to Stefan without ever having to directly say so.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 10 Mar 2012, 15:54

DanielPT wrote:Besides, plucky reject teams don't talk big to start with. Those who do are, a) not plucky at all, so less colourful b) crazy, which is more on the side of laughable.

That reminds me of BAR in 1999, who started talking about how they were going to win the first race. I believe they actually scored two sixth places that year, which means they were still a reject team by the end of it.

Although, say what you will about that car, but if there's one thing you couldn't say about it, it would be that it wasn't colourful. :lol:

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 10 Mar 2012, 16:23

Waris wrote:
DanielPT wrote:Besides, plucky reject teams don't talk big to start with. Those who do are, a) not plucky at all, so less colourful b) crazy, which is more on the side of laughable.

That reminds me of BAR in 1999, who started talking about how they were going to win the first race. I believe they actually scored two sixth places that year, which means they were still a reject team by the end of it.

Although, say what you will about that car, but if there's one thing you couldn't say about it, it would be that it wasn't colourful.

Actually, BAR didn't score a single point the entire year, though they rectified that with a much better 2000.

Post by **Londoner** » 10 Mar 2012, 16:49

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Waris wrote:
DanielPT wrote:Besides, plucky reject teams don't talk big to start with. Those who do are, a) not plucky at all, so less colourful b) crazy, which is more on the side of laughable.

That reminds me of BAR in 1999, who started talking about how they were going to win the first race. I believe they actually scored two sixth places that year, which means they were still a reject team by the end of it.

Although, say what you will about that car, but if there's one thing you couldn't say about it, it would be that it wasn't colourful.

Actually, BAR didn't score a single point the entire year, though they rectified that with a much better 2000.

They built a car that couldn't take Villeneuve to the finish of a race until the end of AUGUST that year. With only Marc Gene behind him, scrambling all over the back trying to get past...

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 12 Mar 2012, 10:46

Stefan GP was a front for some sort of fraud. AMCO, the engineering company behind Mr Stefanovic, no longer exists as far as I can see (they do not appear on the Serbian Business Register) nor do they have any online presence any more. Remember, they had that terrible website with some pictures of missiles and a jeep? Not even that exists anymore. All traces of AMCO have vanished, which would make you think the whole thing was a charade and he had an ulterior motive to his F1 entry. I would expect AMCO was hastily created, their company history fabricated in an attempt to give Zoran some sort of credibility and then do something incredibly stupid and rejectful had he gained entry to the sport.

It would have been extremely fun to watch him bathplug up and then be banned from F1 for bringing the sport into disrepute.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 12 Mar 2012, 10:48

kostas22 wrote:Stefan GP was a front for some sort of fraud. AMCO, the engineering company behind Mr Stefanovic, no longer exists as far as I can see (they do not appear on the Serbian Business Register) nor do they have any online presence any more. Remember, they had that terrible website with some pictures of missiles and a jeep? Not even that exists anymore. All traces of AMCO have vanished, which would make you think the whole thing was a charade and he had an ulterior motive to his F1 entry. I would expect AMCO was hastily created, their company history fabricated in an attempt to give Zoran some sort of credibility and then do something incredibly stupid and rejectful had he gained entry to the sport.

It would have been extremely fun to watch him bathplug up and then be banned from F1 for bringing the sport into disrepute.

Not that USF1 ever did a better job anyway :lol:

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 14 Mar 2012, 16:21

AndreaModa wrote:
dinizintheoven wrote:
BaconLettuceNinja wrote:I'd laugh if someone actually took a gamble on PURE and the engine turned out to be pretty damn good...

So will I, actually. In fact, with the constant cheering on of HRT at the pointed expense of Manorvirginmarussia (hang on, isn't the spirit of this forum to support the teams at the back in preference to those further up the grid?), I'd crack open the champagne if Marussia signed a deal with PURE and suddenly they were demolishing half the field... or more.

So would I!

And I agree on the forum spirit comment, it's something that does grate me slightly, because I cheer on HRT just as much as cheering on my local boys, but ultimately it's at the discretion of each member what they choose to do. Free world and all that!

If I was a small team and could get the money together, I would buy it, and demand exclusive use. If it will be ready to run in 2013 like Cod claims, then most failures should/hopefully will occur then on the bench, and not during the early races. Reliability is always a problem early on ith new lumps (look at Indycar now) and reliability can get you points early......

Pointrox · Post by **Pointrox** » 13 Jun 2012, 23:35

Oi! PURE Corporation is still alive! Hell, they even moved in to Toyota Motorsport facility in Cologne.
http://www.purecorp.org
These guys don't mess around - just to manufacture engines they have rented an entire F1 team factory

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 13 Jun 2012, 23:49

Pointrox wrote:Oi! PURE Corporation is still alive! Hell, they even moved in to Toyota Motorsport facility in Cologne.
http://www.purecorp.org
These guys don't mess around - just to manufacture engines they have rented an entire F1 team factory

Didn't someone say that PURE might be backed by Hyundai? Starting to think that might not be a bad shout...

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 14 Jun 2012, 00:11

Pointrox wrote:Oi! PURE Corporation is still alive! Hell, they even moved in to Toyota Motorsport facility in Cologne.
http://www.purecorp.org
These guys don't mess around - just to manufacture engines they have rented an entire F1 team factory

Cologne seems to be a popular place to base an F1-related organization... First Stefan then this...

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 14 Jun 2012, 00:28

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Pointrox wrote:Oi! PURE Corporation is still alive! Hell, they even moved in to Toyota Motorsport facility in Cologne.
http://www.purecorp.org
These guys don't mess around - just to manufacture engines they have rented an entire F1 team factory

Didn't someone say that PURE might be backed by Hyundai? Starting to think that might not be a bad shout...

I think Captaim Hammer made that up as some sort of fictional scenario. As in something deliberately ludicrous.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 14 Jun 2012, 00:30

Pointrox wrote:Oi! PURE Corporation is still alive! Hell, they even moved in to Toyota Motorsport facility in Cologne.
http://www.purecorp.org
These guys don't mess around - just to manufacture engines they have rented an entire F1 team factory

They still need to get a better designed website though.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 14 Jun 2012, 06:31

eurobrun wrote:
Pointrox wrote:Oi! PURE Corporation is still alive! Hell, they even moved in to Toyota Motorsport facility in Cologne.
http://www.purecorp.org
These guys don't mess around - just to manufacture engines they have rented an entire F1 team factory

They still need to get a better designed website though.

Is it a problem that I initially read it as purecrap.org? :lol:

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 14 Jun 2012, 06:50

Wizzie wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
Pointrox wrote:Oi! PURE Corporation is still alive! Hell, they even moved in to Toyota Motorsport facility in Cologne.
http://www.purecorp.org
These guys don't mess around - just to manufacture engines they have rented an entire F1 team factory

They still need to get a better designed website though.

Is it a problem that I initially read it as purecrap.org?

No, that is probably an accurate description of PURE.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 14 Jun 2012, 09:43

JeremyMcClean wrote:
Pointrox wrote:Oi! PURE Corporation is still alive! Hell, they even moved in to Toyota Motorsport facility in Cologne.
http://www.purecorp.org
These guys don't mess around - just to manufacture engines they have rented an entire F1 team factory

Cologne seems to be a popular place to base an F1-related organization... First Stefan then this...

F1-related is the word here. As in "I want to be in F1. Can I be in F1, please?". They have chances to nail the Cosworth teams, but only when I see any confirmations, I will take PURE seriously.