Your Reject of the Race - Canada!

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] · Post by **Sunshine_Baby_[IT]** » 10 Jun 2012, 22:43

2nd: Ferrari, another strategy mistake.
1st: Jenson Button - no explaination needed.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 10 Jun 2012, 23:05

Jenson Button. Honestly what's going on with him?!

Honourable mention to Alonso's strategy and Schumacher's reliablity.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 10 Jun 2012, 23:05

As Mika Hakkinen once said, "It was so easy, you can't believe it..."

Indeed it was Mika, making my ROTR choice has never been so simpler.

Jenson Button. I can't even fathom how he could end up 16th. Really, how is that possible? Can someone explain the physics of that to me? How does a McLaren go that slowly? Won DBTMOTR by a country mile and I have no idea how. Tyre wear only accounts for so much.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 10 Jun 2012, 23:06

Jenson Button - What is he doing? Seriously? Hope he sorts it out soon.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 10 Jun 2012, 23:51

1. Button for being slow- the intelligent man who finds the extra few tenths via brains rather than brawn (heh). Yeah right

2. Bruno Senna. Behind the Toro Rossos in 16th. While Pastor qualifies 22nd and ends up 13th. What the hell are you doing? Going slowly is probably the answer.

...mentions: Toro Rosso for very possibly replacing two drivers due to being unspectacular with even less spectacular replacements

lostpin · Post by **lostpin** » 11 Jun 2012, 00:03

A tough call this one. Here it goes:

3. Mercedes - Even the backmarkers have a higher reliability rate,
2. Massa - You're not getting a seat in 2013, but you probably know that already,
1. Button - Having your teammate win the race and being overlapped by the said teammate is incredibly rejectful.

tkcom · Post by **tkcom** » 11 Jun 2012, 01:02

Button Last year's champ > this year's chump.
Ferrari Good news! They found reverse gear!

Dishonourable mentions:
Williams' fancy rear wing Full of promises, failed to deliver.
My PVR Went derp and didn't record the race while I was at work.

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 11 Jun 2012, 02:02

This is not the Jenson Button of 2004,late 2006 or 2009-2011.This is the Button of 2000-2003 and especially 2007-2008.Thus,reject of the race goes to him.

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 11 Jun 2012, 02:18

Button: Did he expect his performance last year would work again this time?
or
Mercedes: Why do this to Michael Schumacher again and again?
or
Williams: Back to the tail end of the midfield it looks like
or
HRT's brakes: Probably the same kind that Lindsay Lohan's Porsche had. Pity.

Boomstick · Post by **Boomstick** » 11 Jun 2012, 02:41

I would like to nominate Williams:

Something was really wierd about the Q2 drop off in pace, then again they might have been setting up the car for a operating window to keep the tyres alive as much as possible and a slight track temperature drop killed them off. With no decent track position any strategy with that operating window would be totally hopeless. Then again Sauber did make it work?

jackanderton wrote:
2. Bruno Senna. Behind the Toro Rossos in 16th. While Pastor qualifies 22nd and ends up 13th. What the hell are you doing? Going slowly is probably the answer.

I kinda got the view that senna go a whack early on for some reason.....tho I'm not sure? Can anybody confirm? But really if he didn't get a whack, sorry son you have no right to that seat!

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 11 Jun 2012, 02:45

Pretty sure Senna got held up behind a Toro Rosso at the start after it ran wide at turn 2, allowing the Caterham's through. Caterham's pace in race trim was good enough to keep Senna back and by the time he'd cleared them, was too far back to do anything.

Still, Williams spent Canada like they spent the whole of 2011... Which is a pity.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 11 Jun 2012, 02:49

A few nominations:

1) Jenson Button. There's clearly a problem with the car, and it's pretty obvious that neither he nor McLaren know what it is, much less how to fix it.

2) Force India. Showed a lot of promise at the start, but then folded too soon when they came in for an early stop. Again.

3) Bruno Senna. Maldonado hit the Wall of Champions, took a grid penalty, and still managed to beat Senna.

4) Kimi Raikkonen. When he's on form, he's on form. When he isn't, the team might as well go to the pub. He was on form in Canada, and still bested by Grosjean.

5) HRT. Showed great potential, with de la Rosa out-qualifying the Marussias (and Karthikeyan within a tenth of a second of Pic). Last seen disappearing in a thick cloud of black brake dust.

6) The student protesters. They were completely Anonymous.

By my Reject of the Race has to be (drumroll, please) ...

... Jacques Villeneuve, for proving the age-old adage that it is better to remain silent and appear stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. His comments about the student protest movement in Quebec showed a fundamental lack of understanding about politics, economics, sociology, the education system and probably four or five other subjects on top of that. Ever since leaving the sport, JV has focused very much on creating a character for himself that speaks his mind regardless of the consequences - he's effectively a troll, being controversial for the sake of being controversial. If you stick your neck out far enough, you shouldn't be surprised when someone swings an axe at it.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 11 Jun 2012, 07:50

My ROTR nominations:

Williams - Had two accidents, two Q2 exits and two anonymous races between the two of them. And to think that these guys have won a race while the mob formerly known as Group Bahar haven't
Michael Schumacher's lack of luck - I'm actually starting to feel sorry for the guy now because he's done very little wrong this year but hasn't had the results to back it up
Marussia - Spent all weekend being beaten by HRT.
Paul Di Resta - Was on track for a top 5 result and one point before he disappeared off a cliff.

But my ROTR is:
Jenson Button - Was lapped by his teammate, got beaten by both Toro Rossos and 1 anonymous Williams paydriver and nearly got beaten by the other one. Where was the guy who put in one of the best drives in history to win last year?

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 11 Jun 2012, 07:56

1 - Mercedes, its impossible to judge MSC at the moment. Even HRT laughed at them on Sunday.
2 - Button, honesty was impressive, race pace was not.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 11 Jun 2012, 08:11

{off topic]Actually, I put in a provisional nomination for The Masked Lapwing because I'm under the impression the muppet STILL hasn't done his bit for the Engineering assignment, even though I posted a reminder on the forum yesterday in the Forum Facts thread :roll:

[/off topic]

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 11 Jun 2012, 08:14

I nominate Button.

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 11 Jun 2012, 08:22

Wizzie wrote:{off topic]Actually, I put in a provisional nomination for The Masked Lapwing because I'm under the impression the muppet STILL hasn't done his bit for the Engineering assignment, even though I posted a reminder on the forum yesterday in the Forum Facts thread [/off topic]

I have actually. Well, by "I have", I mean "I tried, but I couldn't find much."

When was it due again?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 11 Jun 2012, 08:30

the Masked Lapwing wrote:
Wizzie wrote:{off topic]Actually, I put in a provisional nomination for The Masked Lapwing because I'm under the impression the muppet STILL hasn't done his bit for the Engineering assignment, even though I posted a reminder on the forum yesterday in the Forum Facts thread [/off topic]

I have actually. Well, by "I have", I mean "I tried, but I couldn't find much."

When was it due again?

Tomorrow morning, but I need the stuff tonight to compile it into the report. On the bright side, you've probably done a better job than our esteemed friend Mr Melville... :lol:

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 11 Jun 2012, 08:34

Wizzie wrote:
the Masked Lapwing wrote:
Wizzie wrote:{off topic]Actually, I put in a provisional nomination for The Masked Lapwing because I'm under the impression the muppet STILL hasn't done his bit for the Engineering assignment, even though I posted a reminder on the forum yesterday in the Forum Facts thread [/off topic]

I have actually. Well, by "I have", I mean "I tried, but I couldn't find much."

When was it due again?

Tomorrow morning, but I need the stuff tonight to compile it into the report. On the bright side, you've probably done a better job than our esteemed friend Mr Melville...

Now, if you'd just picked disc brakes, we'd be set. But no, you had to fail at drawing paper out of a hat :lol:

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 11 Jun 2012, 08:45

This one goes to Jenson Button IMHO. He's been very poor and a now normal nomination for DBTMoTR. He fought with Hamilton for two years toe-to-toe but is now getting the serious beating everyone expected he would get when he came to McLaren.

I also would like to nominate Toro Rosso. They have been absolutely anonymous and are now in a 5 races without points streak. The last big one was in 2010 when Buemi and Alguersuari went 6 races outside points in their first whole season together. That can only mean Toro Rosso went backwards by changing both their drivers. In hindsight, it is a rejectful decision.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 11 Jun 2012, 08:49

DanielPT wrote:He fought with Hamilton for two years toe-to-toe but is now getting the serious beating everyone expected he would get when he came to McLaren.

You don't think that there might be an underlying reason for that? As you said, he held his own against Hamilton for two years, and he also won a race this year. But in the last three races, he's been horrible. Something has clearly changed very recently; you don't just fold like that. A lot of people seem to think that the upturned nose McLaren introduced in Barcelona is working against Button.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 11 Jun 2012, 09:35

Captain Hammer wrote:
DanielPT wrote:He fought with Hamilton for two years toe-to-toe but is now getting the serious beating everyone expected he would get when he came to McLaren.

You don't think that there might be an underlying reason for that? As you said, he held his own against Hamilton for two years, and he also won a race this year. But in the last three races, he's been horrible. Something has clearly changed very recently; you don't just fold like that. A lot of people seem to think that the upturned nose McLaren introduced in Barcelona is working against Button.

Yes, I think that there is an underlying reason. Button can't make the car work to his style. He was anonymous at Malaysia showing his optimal-performance narrow window this year and in Bahrain he was not having a bad race like the last three, but wasn't setting the world alight. One other thing is that McLaren seemed to have lost a bit of performance edge making Button's woes even worse because he clearly fell into the midfield. He is, nevertheless, getting that beating and that should be quite frustrating. And if the upturned nose is the problem why doesn't he revert to the old solution? I think it could be something more...

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 11 Jun 2012, 10:02

Boomstick wrote:I would like to nominate Williams:

Something was really wierd about the Q2 drop off in pace, then again they might have been setting up the car for a operating window to keep the tyres alive as much as possible and a slight track temperature drop killed them off. With no decent track position any strategy with that operating window would be totally hopeless. Then again Sauber did make it work?

No drop off, actually... Senna was just poor on Q2, but Maldonado was on track to make it to Q3, I think he was like -0.138 on the 10th fastest time after the second sector, so he would have finished about somewhere between 6th and 10th, but he lost it at the final chicane and crashed. Williams are missing a somewhat faster driver in the second seat. Senna is actually consistent: he's qualified every time between 13th and 17th, and he crashes less during the races: he should be the one bringing small points all the time (while Maldonado wins one day and crashes the next one), but he's not being fast enough. I'm pretty sure Barrichello wouldn't have been as fast as Pastor, but he would be ahead of him on points - and Williams could very well be ahead of Mercedes.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 11 Jun 2012, 10:04

Ferrim wrote:
Boomstick wrote:I would like to nominate Williams:

Something was really wierd about the Q2 drop off in pace, then again they might have been setting up the car for a operating window to keep the tyres alive as much as possible and a slight track temperature drop killed them off. With no decent track position any strategy with that operating window would be totally hopeless. Then again Sauber did make it work?

No drop off, actually... Senna was just poor on Q2, but Maldonado was on track to make it to Q3, I think he was like -0.138 on the 10th fastest time after the second sector, so he would have finished about somewhere between 6th and 10th, but he lost it at the final chicane and crashed. Williams are missing a somewhat faster driver in the second seat. Senna is actually consistent: he's qualified every time between 13th and 17th, and he crashes less during the races: he should be the one bringing small points all the time (while Maldonado wins one day and crashes the next one), but he's not being fast enough. I'm pretty sure Barrichello wouldn't have been as fast as Pastor, but he would be ahead of him on points - and Williams could very well be ahead of Mercedes.

All this actually makes me wonder what one Adrian Sutil could be doing in that car.

RAK · Post by **RAK** » 11 Jun 2012, 10:46

Pretty easy choice this time: Jenson Button. Didn't manage to go through with the one-stop strategy, and ended up with a dismal race, made more embarrassing by the success of the likes of Pérez.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 11 Jun 2012, 10:58

DanielPT wrote:Yes, I think that there is an underlying reason. Button can't make the car work to his style. He was anonymous at Malaysia showing his optimal-performance narrow window this year and in Bahrain he was not having a bad race like the last three, but wasn't setting the world alight. One other thing is that McLaren seemed to have lost a bit of performance edge making Button's woes even worse because he clearly fell into the midfield. He is, nevertheless, getting that beating and that should be quite frustrating. And if the upturned nose is the problem why doesn't he revert to the old solution? I think it could be something more...

The prevailing theory is that the upturned nose has lifted the centre of gravity on the MP/4-27, which has fundamentally altered the way the car has to be set up. Button has been attempting to apply what he knew about the old specification of nose to the current specification, which isn't anywhere near the sweet spot for a good setup.

TheBigJ · Post by **TheBigJ** » 11 Jun 2012, 11:23

Jacques Villeneuve : I just hate the sight of the man, and his newly bald head just makes it worse. How did the Sky viewers put up with him? Should be an honorary reject. There, I said it.
Jenson Button : Abject disaster.

but my winner is

Alonso's strategist : Was on course for a podium only to be schooled by the younglings Grosjean and Perez who actually did the same amount of stops. Raikonnen in China-esque.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 11 Jun 2012, 19:15

3rd: HRT's brakes. Brake failure at Canada isn't a new concept, but come on.
2nd: Jacques Villeneuve should just shut up already.
1st: Jenson Button, because are there seriously any other options?

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 11 Jun 2012, 19:20

For me, obviously Button is a clear candidate, but also Senna. Whilst Williams in general didn't have a great race, at least Maldonado made up a number of places and wasn't too far off the points in the end. Bruno just pootled round and seemed to be stuck with the Caterhams for most of the race. He's not covering himself in much glory. Pastor may be a bit of a crasher, but at least he has the balls to go out there and give it his all. Senna was just nowhere all day.

tc3j3r · Post by **tc3j3r** » 11 Jun 2012, 20:52

DRS - Robbed us of the chance to see proper, exciting wheel-to-wheel battles between Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Grosjean, Perez etc.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 11 Jun 2012, 22:00

tc3j3r wrote:DRS - Robbed us of the chance to see proper, exciting wheel-to-wheel battles between Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Grosjean, Perez etc.

Gonna put my neck on the line here and say the DRS made no difference to the final top 5/6. Vettel's tyres were clearly gone by the time Hamilton passed him and as for Alonso's... Well, the lap times towards the end spoke for itself.

I like the DRS effect anyway, as it prevents the quicker cars being stuck behind those who are slower but can't find a way past. The DRS allows the quickest to right at the front, which is what I want to see.

Warren Hughes · Post by **Warren Hughes** » 11 Jun 2012, 22:25

Part of the criteria for ROTR is making oneself look stupid. On that basis it simply has to be Ferrari. That was one of the most utterly ridiculous strategy calls I can ever remember seeing. Vettel pitted when about 3 seconds behind Alonso, and within 5 laps had caught and passed him! What were they thinking?!

And yes, of course a dishonourable mention for McLaren's number 2 driver.

tc3j3r · Post by **tc3j3r** » 11 Jun 2012, 22:29

AdrianSutil wrote:
tc3j3r wrote:DRS - Robbed us of the chance to see proper, exciting wheel-to-wheel battles between Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Grosjean, Perez etc.

Gonna put my neck on the line here and say the DRS made no difference to the final top 5/6. Vettel's tyres were clearly gone by the time Hamilton passed him and as for Alonso's... Well, the lap times towards the end spoke for itself.

I like the DRS effect anyway, as it prevents the quicker cars being stuck behind those who are slower but can't find a way past. The DRS allows the quickest to right at the front, which is what I want to see.

I do agree that the top 6 probably wouldn't have changed, what I meant was that it would have been more exciting to see it take the shape it did. The end felt rather anticlimactic to me - it was shaping up to be a battle for the lead, but no sooner had Hamilton caught up to Alonso then he was past, without him really even having to make any effort - he didn't even have to go off the normal racing line at any point. When Hamilton caught Alonso, you could see him shaping up for an audacious move in the chicane and then the hairpin, but he backed out because he knew he could just DRS him with no risk anyway. WIth no DRS he would had to try something more daring, and you never know, it might just possibly have ended in a coming-together. I think DRS has its value on circuits where overtaking is tricky, but not Montreal which was always very overtaking friendly even before DRS came along, the long Casino straight always was the scene of many an overtaking move, but they generally involved two cars side by side wheel to wheel as opposed to just breezing past. Remeber Hamilton and Alonso side by side down that straight in 2010? Much more dramatic than 2012. Or better still, Sato flying round the outside of Alonso in 2007. Also, this didn't occur to me when I wrote my first post, but another, less controversial reason to give ROTR to DRS was Schumacher's DRS failure!

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 11 Jun 2012, 23:10

AdrianSutil wrote:
tc3j3r wrote:DRS - Robbed us of the chance to see proper, exciting wheel-to-wheel battles between Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Grosjean, Perez etc.

Gonna put my neck on the line here and say the DRS made no difference to the final top 5/6. Vettel's tyres were clearly gone by the time Hamilton passed him and as for Alonso's... Well, the lap times towards the end spoke for itself.

I like the DRS effect anyway, as it prevents the quicker cars being stuck behind those who are slower but can't find a way past. The DRS allows the quickest to right at the front, which is what I want to see.

Is it bad that I read that in JV's voice.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 11 Jun 2012, 23:44

Seems Jenson Button is going for a ROTY... again...

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 12 Jun 2012, 00:25

I can say that an official decision has been made, when Jamie and I watched the race together and recorded the next podcast. :!:

Look out for it later this week ...

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 12 Jun 2012, 00:47

This wrote:Seems Jenson Button is going for a ROTY... again...

Hes going for one in Hunt For Glory too, funny really.

And I recorded the Singapore race. The race length was 56 minutes, I hate the track length.

Post by **tommykl** » 12 Jun 2012, 05:51

tc3j3r wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:
tc3j3r wrote:DRS - Robbed us of the chance to see proper, exciting wheel-to-wheel battles between Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Grosjean, Perez etc.

Gonna put my neck on the line here and say the DRS made no difference to the final top 5/6. Vettel's tyres were clearly gone by the time Hamilton passed him and as for Alonso's... Well, the lap times towards the end spoke for itself.

I like the DRS effect anyway, as it prevents the quicker cars being stuck behind those who are slower but can't find a way past. The DRS allows the quickest to right at the front, which is what I want to see.

I do agree that the top 6 probably wouldn't have changed, what I meant was that it would have been more exciting to see it take the shape it did. The end felt rather anticlimactic to me - it was shaping up to be a battle for the lead, but no sooner had Hamilton caught up to Alonso then he was past, without him really even having to make any effort - he didn't even have to go off the normal racing line at any point. When Hamilton caught Alonso, you could see him shaping up for an audacious move in the chicane and then the hairpin, but he backed out because he knew he could just DRS him with no risk anyway. WIth no DRS he would had to try something more daring, and you never know, it might just possibly have ended in a coming-together. I think DRS has its value on circuits where overtaking is tricky, but not Montreal which was always very overtaking friendly even before DRS came along, the long Casino straight always was the scene of many an overtaking move, but they generally involved two cars side by side wheel to wheel as opposed to just breezing past. Remeber Hamilton and Alonso side by side down that straight in 2010? Much more dramatic than 2012. Or better still, Sato flying round the outside of Alonso in 2007. Also, this didn't occur to me when I wrote my first post, but another, less controversial reason to give ROTR to DRS was Schumacher's DRS failure!

On the DRS problem, I'll argue that the key to having more overtaking is not to put the DRS in a spot where overtakes are aleady common. Maybe put it in a spot where overtaking is possible if the right conditions are present, but not frequent, that way, you have side-by-side battles in the main overtaking spot and similar battles for position in the secondary spot, made possible by the use of the DRS.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 12 Jun 2012, 09:58

eytl wrote:I can say that an official decision has been made, when Jamie and I watched the race together and recorded the next podcast.

Look out for it later this week ...

Oh my, another podcast!

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 12 Jun 2012, 16:18

The Race Director deserves a dishonourable mention for sticking Hamilton's bloody girlfriend on the screen at every possible moment.