The non-diffuser-triopoly, non-McLaren 2009 championship

[eytl]

As listeners will know, Jamie and I did our best to keep everyone pre-informed as to the real post-144 (or post-414), post-diffuser-gate, post-lie-gate, 2009 championship state of play. You know the one ... the championship results excluding Brawn, Williams, Toyota and McLaren.

Well, not surprisingly, we proved to be completely wrong (again). But never fear! We are here to keep Toro Rosso's constructors' championship tilt alive! On this thread we will keep you updated as to the (much more intriguing) non-diffuser-triopoly, non-McLaren 2009 championship standings.

After Malaysia

1. Alonso 12
2. Heidfeld 9
3. Bourdais 8.5
4. Buemi 8
5. Webber 6
6. Sutil 5
= 7. Fisichella/Massa 3
= 9. Vettel/Piquet 1.5
11. Raikkonen 1
12. Kubica 0

1. Toro Rosso 16.5
2. Renault 13.5
3. BMW 9
4. Force India 8
5. Red Bull 7.5
6. Ferrari 4

[Kuwashima]

Nice!

[Bleu]

With those diffusers declared legal, most teams will build them so this will not make sense after that.

[eytl]

Oh, why let the facts get in the way of a good story?

[Jack O Malley]

It was already written that this would not have happened, or Heidfeld would have won a race! (even it would have been silly that he couldn't celebrate his first win on the podium - just like Fisi!)

(i hope my english is understandable, and not reject!)

[CarlosFerreira]

Oh, why let the facts get in the way of a good story?

Exactly my point!

Note: Alonso gets no points from now on (provided he gets any...), since he's joined the dark side of the diffusers.

[RejectSteve]

Note: Alonso gets no points from now on (provided he gets any...), since he's joined the dark side of the diffusers.

McLaren also have 'interim' diffusers this weekend. Peter Windsor hinted that they may be running two different specificiations between their drivers to evaluate which is better.

[CarlosFerreira]

Note: Alonso gets no points from now on (provided he gets any...), since he's joined the dark side of the diffusers.

McLaren also have 'interim' diffusers this weekend. Peter Windsor hinted that they may be running two different specificiations between their drivers to evaluate which is better.

Sure. But McLaren's sidelined by the lie-gate anyway.

[noisebox]

Ok, so BMW have yet to withdraw their appeal made in Malaysia, so the result from China was:

1. Vettel
2. Webber
3. Glock
4. Buemi
5. Alonso
6. Raikkonen
7. Bourdais
8. Heidfeld

So championship positions:

1. Webber 16
2. Alonso 16
3. Buemi 13
4. Vettel 11.5
5. Bordais 10.5
6. Heidfeld 10

1. Red Bull 27.5
2. Toro Rosso 23.5
3. Renault 17.5

[noisebox]

Ok, so BMW have yet to withdraw their appeal made in Malaysia, so the result from China was:

1. Vettel
2. Webber
3. Glock
4. Buemi
5. Alonso
6. Raikkonen
7. Bourdais
8. Heidfeld

So championship positions:

1. Webber 16
2. Alonso 16
3. Buemi 13
4. Vettel 11.5
5. Bordais 10.5
6. Heidfeld 10

1. Red Bull 27.5
2. Toro Rosso 23.5
3. Renault 17.5

I take it back - this is all wrong - Alonso will have to be disqualified from China, as will McLaren (again) as they both ran elements of a double decker diffuser...

[TomWazzleshaw]

It's only an interm diffuser and he was still crap with it on anyway.
So leave Alonso on there for now
And what the hell is Glock doing on there? Last time I checked he was driving a TOYOTA which has the diffuser

[CarlosFerreira]

It's only an interm diffuser and he was still crap with it on anyway.
So leave Alonso on there for now
And what the hell is Glock doing on there? Last time I checked he was driving a TOYOTA which has the diffuser

I disagree, sorry. Do drop Alonso from this race, for not abiding to the "spirit of the regulation".

[TomWazzleshaw]

It's only an interm diffuser and he was still crap with it on anyway.
So leave Alonso on there for now
And what the hell is Glock doing on there? Last time I checked he was driving a TOYOTA which has the diffuser

I disagree, sorry. Do drop Alonso from this race, for not abiding to the "spirit of the regulation".

Does that mean we drop Piquet too?

[CarlosFerreira]

It's only an interm diffuser and he was still crap with it on anyway.
So leave Alonso on there for now
And what the hell is Glock doing on there? Last time I checked he was driving a TOYOTA which has the diffuser

I disagree, sorry. Do drop Alonso from this race, for not abiding to the "spirit of the regulation".

Does that mean we drop Piquet too?

I think he didn't have the diffuser on this weekend. I heard Renault only managed to ship in, via Briatore's private jet (fancy!) the parts for one car. Can't confirm it, though.

[noisebox]

It's only an interm diffuser and he was still crap with it on anyway.
So leave Alonso on there for now
And what the hell is Glock doing on there? Last time I checked he was driving a TOYOTA which has the diffuser

Schoolboy error!

[runningboots]

Thanks Guys !

Peter Windsor hinted that they may be running two different specificiations between their drivers to evaluate which is better.

...and is that supposed to make Peter Windsor look clever ? Wow his US team will be so far ahead if they ask the drivers to try different things to accelerate development a bit when there is no mid-season testing

[runningboots]

Thanks Guys !

Peter Windsor hinted that they may be running two different specificiations between their drivers to evaluate which is better.

...and is this supposed to make Peter Windsor look clever ? Wow his US GP team will be so far ahead if they are clever enough to ask their drivers to try different things in order to advance due to there being no mid-season testing

[eytl]

Well, I think we need to keep two separate lists from now on. I think the non-diffuser-triopoly, non-McLaren 2009 championship concept still works, consisting of the remaining 12 cars, because Brawn, Toyota and Williams have had a head start on everyone else and McLaren has ... well, you know ...

After China

1. Alonso 17
2. Webber 14
3. Buemi 14
4. Vettel 11.5
5. Bourdais 11.5
6. Heidfeld 11
7. Sutil 5
8. Raikkonen 5
9. Fisichella 3
10. Massa 3
11. Piquet 1.5
12. Kubica 1

1. Red Bull 25.5
2. Toro Rosso 25.5
3. Renault 18.5
4. BMW 12
5. Force India 8
6. Ferrari 8

Alternatively, if some of you are going to choke on your pretzels at the thought that cars now starting to run DDDs are being allowed to remain in this exalted championship, then this second list is based on those starting to run DDDs being ineligible to score from now on. And this second alternative will be over in a few races' time when everyone is running DDDs!

After China, Alonso ineligible for further points

1. Webber 14
2. Buemi 14
3. Bourdais 12.5
4. Heidfeld 12
5. Alonso 12
6. Vettel 11.5
7. Raikkonen 6
8. Sutil 5
9. Fisichella 4
10. Massa 3
11. Kubica 2
12. Piquet 1.5

1. Toro Rosso 26.5
2. Red Bull 25.5
3. BMW 14
4. Renault 13.5
5. Ferrari 9
6. Force India 9

[SuperAguri]

Well, I think we need to keep two separate lists from now on.

How about making it easier for us and post up the finishing order for the cars too?

Alternatively, if some of you are going to choke on your pretzels at the thought that cars now starting to run DDDs are being allowed to remain in this exalted championship, then this second list is based on those starting to run DDDs being ineligible to score from now on. And this second alternative will be over in a few races' time when everyone is running DDDs!

Surely Force India might abandon this year and not run a DDD and therefore win this championship easily?

Failing that if everyone runs it then surely every team is equal and can then score points again?

[noisebox]

Alternatively, if some of you are going to choke on your pretzels at the thought that cars now starting to run DDDs are being allowed to remain in this exalted championship, then this second list is based on those starting to run DDDs being ineligible to score from now on. And this second alternative will be over in a few races' time when everyone is running DDDs!

After China, Alonso ineligible for further points

1. Webber 14

I've got your number - on this championship Webber will be WDC by Monaco!

[Yannick]

With Ferrari and Force 1ndia being tied in the non-diffuser-championship now, how likely is it that Force 1ndia will get ahead of Ferrari in the real constructors championship now that they've got their own double-decker diffuser in Bahrain and Ferrari don't?

[TomWazzleshaw]

With Ferrari and Force 1ndia being tied in the non-diffuser-championship now, how likely is it that Force 1ndia will get ahead of Ferrari in the real constructors championship now that they've got their own double-decker diffuser in Bahrain and Ferrari don't?

Not very

[Alianora La Canta]

With a certain amount of luck, it would be possible.

Force India is not noted for its luck...

[Yannick]

With a certain amount of luck, it would be possible.

Force India is not noted for its luck...

Well, when they were still Jordan, that was different, even when Colin Kolles was already in place.
They did impressive things even though their car was not up to do them really ... Glock and Heidfeld both scoring in Canada in Glock's first race, Fisichella winning in Brazil, Monteiro and Karthikeyan scoring P3 and P4 in the legendary US GP, Winkelhock leading the race at the Nürburgring for a few laps in the Spyker. Still, the way that points have eluded Sutil so far looks like it's down to a lack of luck.
But it's good to see that Force 1ndia are showing progress this year.

[eytl]

Post-Bahrain update time! Again two lists:

(1) with all 12 original non-DDD, non-McLaren cars eligible for points
(2) with Renault and Force India now ineligible for points (i.e. all of the remaining 8 cars scored!!!)

After Bahrain, list 1

1. Alonso 23
2. Vettel 21.5
3. Webber 18
4. Bourdais 14.5
5. Buemi 14
6. Raikkonen 13
7. Heidfeld 11
8. Piquet 6.5
9. Sutil 5
10. Massa 5
11. Fisichella 4
12. Kubica 1

1. Red Bull 39.5
2. Renault 29.5
3. Toro Rosso 28.5
4. Ferrari 18
5. BMW 12
6. Force India 9

After Bahrain, list 2

1. Vettel 21.5
2. Webber 20
3. Bourdais 17.5
4. Buemi 17
5. Raikkonen 14
6. Heidfeld 13
7. Alonso 12
8. Massa 7
9. Sutil 5
10. Fisichella 4
11. Kubica 4
12. Piquet 1.5

1. Red Bull 41.5
2. Toro Rosso 34.5
3. Ferrari 21
4. BMW 17
5. Renault 13.5
6. Force India 9

[CarlosFerreira]

Abd Vettel's past Webber already...

[Yannick]

Here's hoping that Toro Rosso can make more positive impressions when the paddock inhabitants head to Europe. The customer is meant to be king, or so the saying goes after all. At least that's what Norbert Haug of Mercedes always says to downplay McLaren's performances over the Brawn victories when interviewed on German TV.

[eytl]

The second list is now getting silly, because AFAIK only the Red Bulls, Toro Rossos and BMWs were not running some kind of DDD at Barcelona, which means that Bourdais and Buemi would have scored points despite the second corner mayhem. So here is simply the current standings based on the original 12-car non-diffuser-triopoly, non-McLaren field.

And what a championship battle we have at the front!

After Spain

1. Vettel 29.5
2. Alonso 29
3. Webber 28
4. Heidfeld 15
5. Bourdais 14.5
6. Buemi 14
7. Raikkonen 13
8. Massa 10
9. Piquet 8.5
10. Sutil 5
11. Fisichella 5
12. Kubica 4

1. Red Bull 57
2. Renault 37.5
3. Toro Rosso 28.5
4. Ferrari 23
5. BMW 19
6. Force India 10

[TomWazzleshaw]

9. Piquet 8.5
10. Sutil 5
11. Fisichella 5
12. Kubica 4

Note some of the people Kubica is behind

[Ed24]

Congratulations Sébastien Bourdais, 2009 non-diffuser-triopoly, non-McLaren 2009 championship winner!

(Every other driver competed at least one round in a double-diffuser car.)