2013 Silly Season Thread

cbbcisace · Post by **cbbcisace** » 20 Sep 2012, 20:42

Perez said today he HASNT been approached by Ferrari or McLaren for a driver next season, so Jamie I think replaces Kamui at Sauber.

LellaLombardi · Post by **LellaLombardi** » 20 Sep 2012, 21:42

I can't see any reason why Sauber would ditch Kamui unless they are so skint they need two pay drivers. I think Perez is on the move, and I really hope its McLaren

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 21 Sep 2012, 07:02

Damn, I really wanted him to go to Williams

Post by **mario** » 21 Sep 2012, 10:01

eurobrun wrote:Damn, I really wanted him to go to Williams

Given that Williams appear to have spent the best part of this year preparing Bottas for a race seat, it would be something of a waste of time and effort if they were to change course and hire Alguersuari now.

LellaLombardi wrote:I can't see any reason why Sauber would ditch Kamui unless they are so skint they need two pay drivers. I think Perez is on the move, and I really hope its McLaren

Alguersuari isn't really what you'd call a pay driver though - what sponsors can he bring to the team now that he is no longer a Red Bull backed driver?

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 21 Sep 2012, 10:06

mario wrote:
eurobrun wrote:Damn, I really wanted him to go to Williams

Given that Williams appear to have spent the best part of this year preparing Bottas for a race seat, it would be something of a waste of time and effort if they were to change course and hire Alguersuari now.

Bottas is massively overrated, employing is a massive waste of time and effort anyway

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 21 Sep 2012, 10:08

mario wrote:Alguersuari isn't really what you'd call a pay driver though - what sponsors can he bring to the team now that he is no longer a Red Bull backed driver?

When he got his seat at Toro Rosso he had some Repsol money behind him, though that's now ended I believe. He currently has some Seat backing, and presumably he's spent the year out drumming up sponsorship so that he can get back into F1.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 21 Sep 2012, 14:05

First step towards Pic leaving Marussia perhaps?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102684

I'm sure Marussia could do with some Aon money!

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 21 Sep 2012, 14:13

I don't really have any desire to see Max Chilton in F1, and I think Pic's done enough to warrant another season at Marussia (i.e. qualified for every race). Manor need to stop changing their second driver every season.

If he was getting Timo Glock's seat on the other hand...

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 21 Sep 2012, 14:26

Backmarker wrote:If he was getting Timo Glock's seat on the other hand...

This. We've discussed it before, but I can definitely see Marussia go for a Pic/Chilton line-up next year, because both will bring sizeable funding to the team, and currently Glock isn't bringing anything of significance to the table, certainly as far as race performance goes, so I don't see how he can justify a place there. He's lost his motivation, and I think he's just a bit of a deadweight for the team - he's doing the job, but that's it, he doesn't bring anything extra or special, whereas Pic and Chilton can bring lots of money, as well as the enthusiasm that comes with young drivers being given a chance in F1.

Post by **mario** » 21 Sep 2012, 14:31

eurobrun wrote:
mario wrote:
eurobrun wrote:Damn, I really wanted him to go to Williams

Given that Williams appear to have spent the best part of this year preparing Bottas for a race seat, it would be something of a waste of time and effort if they were to change course and hire Alguersuari now.

Bottas is massively overrated, employing is a massive waste of time and effort anyway

Though you may not believe him to be worth it, the management at Williams seem to believe that it is worthwhile to commit those resources to Bottas's development.

Backmarker wrote:
mario wrote:Alguersuari isn't really what you'd call a pay driver though - what sponsors can he bring to the team now that he is no longer a Red Bull backed driver?

When he got his seat at Toro Rosso he had some Repsol money behind him, though that's now ended I believe. He currently has some Seat backing, and presumably he's spent the year out drumming up sponsorship so that he can get back into F1.

True, Alguersuari probably has spent much of his off season trying to drum up sponsorship, but at the moment the only personal sponsor listed on his website is Seat (which you would have to assume is not going to be a massive amount given that VW Group isn't massively interested in F1). It might help him, in the same way that the sponsorship from Medion helped Sutil, but I would suspect that he would be hoping to capitalise on his experience more than his wallet - whether that is considered more valuable than a few millions more in sponsorship is another matter.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 21 Sep 2012, 14:44

I think that Glock's had more than enough time at Manor. As a team leader, he's barely been any better than his inexperienced team-mates. He's not bringing in any sponsorship money as far as I'm aware (or if he is it's a very small amount). I'm not aware how good a development driver he is, and that would presumably be what Marussia would miss most if he left, but I don't think he can be said to have brought the car on much in the years he's been at Manor. Worst of all, he just doesn't seem to care anymore, and for that I would give him the boot. I'd love for them to take Luca di Grassi back, and his two years at Pirelli could actually give the team something now, but he doesn't have the wallet of Chilton or Pic.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 21 Sep 2012, 14:49

eurobrun wrote:
mario wrote:
eurobrun wrote:Damn, I really wanted him to go to Williams

Given that Williams appear to have spent the best part of this year preparing Bottas for a race seat, it would be something of a waste of time and effort if they were to change course and hire Alguersuari now.

Bottas is massively overrated, employing is a massive waste of time and effort anyway

Could he really be a step down from Maldonado or Senna though?

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 21 Sep 2012, 14:55

Backmarker wrote:I think that Glock's had more than enough time at Manor. As a team leader, he's barely been any better than his inexperienced team-mates. He's not bringing in any sponsorship money as far as I'm aware (or if he is it's a very small amount). I'm not aware how good a development driver he is, and that would presumably be what Marussia would miss most if he left, but I don't think he can be said to have brought the car on much in the years he's been at Manor. Worst of all, he just doesn't seem to care anymore, and for that I would give him the boot. I'd love for them to take Luca di Grassi back, and his two years at Pirelli could actually give the team something now, but he doesn't have the wallet of Chilton or Pic.

Di Grassi is signed up to be the development driver for the forthcoming all-electric Forumula E championship, so I don't think he's available (for next season at least) ...

Post by **mario** » 21 Sep 2012, 15:07

madmark1974 wrote:
Backmarker wrote:I think that Glock's had more than enough time at Manor. As a team leader, he's barely been any better than his inexperienced team-mates. He's not bringing in any sponsorship money as far as I'm aware (or if he is it's a very small amount). I'm not aware how good a development driver he is, and that would presumably be what Marussia would miss most if he left, but I don't think he can be said to have brought the car on much in the years he's been at Manor. Worst of all, he just doesn't seem to care anymore, and for that I would give him the boot. I'd love for them to take Luca di Grassi back, and his two years at Pirelli could actually give the team something now, but he doesn't have the wallet of Chilton or Pic.

Di Grassi is signed up to be the development driver for the forthcoming all-electric Forumula E championship, so I don't think he's available (for next season at least) ...

Not to mention the fact that I believe that Di Grassi has been signed by Audi for their Le Mans program to replace Capello (which was why he was driving for Audi in the 6 Hours race in Interlagos).

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 21 Sep 2012, 15:31

mario wrote:
madmark1974 wrote:
Backmarker wrote:I think that Glock's had more than enough time at Manor. As a team leader, he's barely been any better than his inexperienced team-mates. He's not bringing in any sponsorship money as far as I'm aware (or if he is it's a very small amount). I'm not aware how good a development driver he is, and that would presumably be what Marussia would miss most if he left, but I don't think he can be said to have brought the car on much in the years he's been at Manor. Worst of all, he just doesn't seem to care anymore, and for that I would give him the boot. I'd love for them to take Luca di Grassi back, and his two years at Pirelli could actually give the team something now, but he doesn't have the wallet of Chilton or Pic.

Di Grassi is signed up to be the development driver for the forthcoming all-electric Forumula E championship, so I don't think he's available (for next season at least) ...

Not to mention the fact that I believe that Di Grassi has been signed by Audi for their Le Mans program to replace Capello (which was why he was driving for Audi in the 6 Hours race in Interlagos).

He would, of course, drop those commitments at a moment's notice if there was an F1 seat available.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 22 Sep 2012, 01:13

redbulljack14 wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
mario wrote:Given that Williams appear to have spent the best part of this year preparing Bottas for a race seat, it would be something of a waste of time and effort if they were to change course and hire Alguersuari now.

Bottas is massively overrated, employing is a massive waste of time and effort anyway

Could he really be a step down from Maldonado or Senna though?

In my opinion he is, Williams are losing a large amount of money for very little (if any) potential result gain.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 22 Sep 2012, 01:41

eurobrun wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:Could he really be a step down from Maldonado or Senna though?

In my opinion he is, Williams are losing a large amount of money for very little (if any) potential result gain.

To be honest, the more I see of Bottas, the more I'm convinced you're right. He really does not look that stellar compared to Maldonado or Senna. Not saying he's worse, just not enough to consider ditching either of them, especially considering the sponsorship they both bring.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 22 Sep 2012, 06:35

Regarding speed I don't think Bottas is much faster if any, but I think he is better in keeping the car on the track.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 22 Sep 2012, 11:09

Bottas was rather average in Euro F3 from what I remember of him. Mika Mäki was more promising until the idiot crashed his 350Z into a tunnel during a street race. Lost his Red Bull backing after that and dropped off the radar. Dunno if he ever ended up in prison for his reckless driving or not.

WIDD · Post by **WIDD** » 22 Sep 2012, 12:42

Eddie Jordan was just signing Bottas' praises on BBC. Kobayashi wasn't particuarly impressive in GP2.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 22 Sep 2012, 12:45

WIDD wrote:Eddie Jordan was just signing Bottas' praises on BBC. Kobayashi wasn't particuarly impressive in GP2.

Proof that Eddie Jordan is blind, first his shirt choices and now this.

WIDD · Post by **WIDD** » 22 Sep 2012, 12:53

Ferrari should get Schumacher if Hamilton's going to Mercedes. Would be an...interesting combination and driver dynamic to say the least.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 22 Sep 2012, 21:37

kostas22 wrote:Bottas was rather average in Euro F3 from what I remember of him. Mika Mäki was more promising until the idiot crashed his 350Z into a tunnel during a street race. Lost his Red Bull backing after that and dropped off the radar. Dunno if he ever ended up in prison for his reckless driving or not.

I wondered what happened to him. Distinctive name, sounded like he was a character from In the Night Garden...

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 22 Sep 2012, 22:27

Why Williams you didnt keep Rubinho?

Post by **Nuppiz** » 22 Sep 2012, 22:28

dr-baker wrote:
kostas22 wrote:Bottas was rather average in Euro F3 from what I remember of him. Mika Mäki was more promising until the idiot crashed his 350Z into a tunnel during a street race. Lost his Red Bull backing after that and dropped off the radar. Dunno if he ever ended up in prison for his reckless driving or not.

I wondered what happened to him. Distinctive name, sounded like he was a character from In the Night Garden...

Fun fact: his name translates in English as "Mike Hill".

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 23 Sep 2012, 00:16

Seems no-one considered the possibility of Alguersuari going to Marussia (to replace Glock)
Probably won't happen, but Marussia have nothing to lose on that.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 23 Sep 2012, 00:36

Dj_bereta wrote:Why Williams you didnt keep Rubinho?

Because Senna bought the seat out from under him.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Sep 2012, 02:28

Hamilton officially has no idea what the frick is going on

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 23 Sep 2012, 02:32

I love the way Whitmarsh's reply to Jake and Eddie is word-for-word what he said to EJ in the Monza paddock.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 23 Sep 2012, 09:59

Is Adrian Sutil a viable option for any teams, or would his conviction stop him getting a visa to access some countries?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 23 Sep 2012, 10:37

Only China, only for eighteen months after his conviction, and only if they push the issue.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 23 Sep 2012, 14:30

Doesn't change the fact that Sutil has the negative press of that incident lingering over him, I'd be surprised if any F1 team would touch him even with a ten foot pole. Additionally he has virtually been completely out of racing this year unlike other drivers without a F1 seat. At this moment, even Barrichello is more likely to get another shot.

Ferrarist · Post by **Ferrarist** » 23 Sep 2012, 14:46

Klon wrote:Doesn't change the fact that Sutil has the negative press of that incident lingering over him, I'd be surprised if any F1 team would touch him even with a ten foot pole. Additionally he has virtually been completely out of racing this year unlike other drivers without a F1 seat. At this moment, even Barrichello is more likely to get another shot.

I agree with that. Sutil has to accept that his F1 career is over for now, maybe even forever. On the other hand, he isn't the first race driver to get into legal troubles. Tomas Enge made a decent career in LMPs and GTs after his drug issues...until he failed another drug test. :lol:

But the point is, he still may get a seat in WEC, GT Masters or DTM if he wanted. Especially a rather low-profile series like WEC might give him the chance to rehabilate himself.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 23 Sep 2012, 15:17

Ferrarist wrote:
Klon wrote:Doesn't change the fact that Sutil has the negative press of that incident lingering over him, I'd be surprised if any F1 team would touch him even with a ten foot pole. Additionally he has virtually been completely out of racing this year unlike other drivers without a F1 seat. At this moment, even Barrichello is more likely to get another shot.

I agree with that. Sutil has to accept that his F1 career is over for now, maybe even forever. On the other hand, he isn't the first race driver to get into legal troubles. Tomas Enge made a decent career in LMPs and GTs after his drug issues...until he failed another drug test. But the point is, he still may get a seat in WEC, GT Masters or DTM if he wanted. Especially a rather low-profile series like WEC might give him the chance to rehabilate himself.

And, even I have to admit, he didn't do himself no favours when saying a few months back that "He wouldn't sign for a team if they wanted me to bring sponsorship. Teams should hire me for my skill." Now I could probably think of 5 or 6 drivers that could get a seat in F1 without personal backing, and Sutil isn't one of them. He did have sponsorship from Medion, but I don't know if they would still help him after Champagne glass-gate.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 23 Sep 2012, 18:01

This wrote:Seems no-one considered the possibility of Alguersuari going to Marussia (to replace Glock)
Probably won't happen, but Marussia have nothing to lose on that.

If Alguersuari purportedly refused HRT, he would certainly have to eat some humble pie to sign for Marussia!

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 24 Sep 2012, 00:07

Pat Symonds has apparently put in place a three-year development schedule that will see the team working on their 2012, 2013 and 2014 cars simultaneously so that the team can be reasonably competitive for the first Russian Grand Prix. That may be enough to sway a second-tier driver like Alguersuari over.

And if they can hold onto tenth place, that's really going to help their cause.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 24 Sep 2012, 12:59

Captain Hammer wrote:Pat Symonds has apparently put in place a three-year development schedule that will see the team working on their 2012, 2013 and 2014 cars simultaneously so that the team can be reasonably competitive for the first Russian Grand Prix. That may be enough to sway a second-tier driver like Alguersuari over.

And if they can hold onto tenth place, that's really going to help their cause.

That would be ridiculous because the 2014 rules aren't even completely set in stone yet as far as I know.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 25 Sep 2012, 06:20

It's largely expected that, because of the changes to the engine formula, there won't be a whole host of changes to bodywork and the like. The only significant change that is really expected is the overall lowering of the nose, and Marussia already have that covered. Enclosed cockpit canopies have also been suggested, but the teams need to agree on their inclusion first, and until that happens, it's unlikely anyone will put anything extra into them.

And while Symonds might have a three-year plan, he's not going to dedicate massive amounts of resources to the 2014 car. It will get some attention, and the 2013 car will be designed to allow for a natural evolution of its design in 2014, but the 2012 car and the early 2013 design will get the most development. Besides, with those extensive engine regulations coming into play in 2014, it's likely that the technical regulations will be set in stone much sooner than normal. They typically get settled at the September meeting of the WMSC, but I wouldn't be surprised if the 2014 regulations are finalised much sooner - maybe even in March - so as to give teams the maximum opportunity to design their cars.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 25 Sep 2012, 08:39

Everyone's looking to back out of the engine regulations as it is, at this stage I would be surprised if the proposed changes come about.

Post by **mario** » 25 Sep 2012, 09:17

Backmarker wrote:Everyone's looking to back out of the engine regulations as it is, at this stage I would be surprised if the proposed changes come about.

Some parties are, most notably the midfield teams (who'd prefer to keep the current, and relatively cheap, V8 engines) but others are determined to force the new engine regulations through - most notably Renault, because they feel that the new regulations offer them a chance to gain an advantage over Ferrari and Mercedes. Added to that, Renault feel that they have the most to gain from a marketing perspective because an increasingly wide part of their model range utilises small capacity turbo engines - and with Renault currently backing four teams (including the current WCC), their influence won't be negligible.

Now, whilst Mercedes seems relatively ambivalent on the engine issue at the moment (they weren't desperately keen to change things - no doubt because they'd prefer the current situation - but equally they weren't outwardly hostile to the new regulations), Ferrari's position is a little more confused.
On the one hand, we know that some within the team would prefer to stick with the current engines for a variety of reasons (including marketing and the rising costs that they'd have to absorb), and they have also made it clear that they aren't especially enamoured with the proposals to increase the importance of the energy recovery systems.
No doubt those complaints are probably in part because they don't think it a worthwhile development for their road cars, and in part because Mercedes may gain a further advantage over them. Yet, at the same time others within the team seem to welcome the new rules because it will increase the importance of the engines - and we all know that one aspect Ferrari sells itself on is developing high performance engines.

Overall, whilst there will probably be a concerted effort to delay things I expect that the current manufacturers are already too committed to their new engine programs to willingly scrap them at this point. Renault were very vocal about the changes from the inline four cylinder to the V6 design, claiming that they were having to scrap several millions worth of research as a result (something that, no doubt, also hurt the other manufacturers), whilst Ferrari and Mercedes are about to start, or have just started, dyno testing. Much as the other manufacturers might be uncomfortable about the new regulations, I imagine that the accounts departments would be more uncomfortable about writing off that investment...