Karthikeyan in force India link?

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Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by andrew »

Crash.net



Narain Karthikeyan could end up alongside Paul di Resta at Force India this season, it is being reported.

According to India's Deccan Chronicle the 36-year-old has already been offered a reserve driver role with the Silverstone-based squad, but he is keen to continue racing, and with more financial backing than he had in 2012, he could yet land the final seat on the F1 2013 grid.

“As soon as Narain's long-term sponsors Tata increased the budget for 2013, talks with Force India began. Unlike the past, the negotiation has been a lot more positive,” the 'paper quotes 'a source' as saying. “As reserve drivers don't have much of a role in F1 these days, Narain is only interested in the second driver seat. If talks fail, he will probably go to America for IndyCar series where a couple of teams have already shown interest.”

A number of drivers' have been linked to Force India in recent months as the team continues to delay a decision on the replacement for Nico Hulkenberg, who opted to move to Sauber at the end of last season.

Last week Jules Bianchi and James Rossiter both helped out during the Jerez test, and the former, the team's test and reserve driver in 2012, is still thought to be one of the favourites to get the nod, along with former Force India driver Adrian Sutil. Jamie Alguersuari has also been mooted, as has Bruno Senna and Luiz Razia, although the latter two are no longer in the frame, having signed other deals. Senna will race with Aston Martin Racing as part of its assault on both the Le Mans 24 Hours and the World Endurance Championship, while Razia has inked a deal with Marussia.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by Ataxia »

If Karthikeyan gets the Force India seat...bathplug it, I'll do an avatar challenge.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by WeirdKerr »

well he did get his best result with the team in a former guise
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by James1978 »

Enjoy your 9th place in the WCC, Force India. :)
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by FullMetalJack »

I did hear this rumour a couple of days ago. It would greatly improve Williams' chances next season, so i'm up for it.

Imagine if he were to beat di Resta though?
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by pasta_maldonado »

redbulljack14 wrote:I did hear this rumour a couple of days ago. It would greatly improve Williams' chances next season, so i'm up for it.

Imagine if he were to beat di Resta though?

Di Resta would be finished. Not even di Resta levels of arrogance could overcome a defeat of that magnitude
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by takagi_for_the_win »

Oh dear God no, this mustn't happen. I've nothing against Karthikeyan as a man or as a driver, but I feel that he is best suited to the back of the grid in terms of teams. I mean, look at some of the drivers whose careers face an uncertain period. Kobayashi. Kovaleinen. Sutil. Glock. Alguersuari. Perhaps even Trulli, Barrichello and Senna. IMO, any 1 of those drivers would be a better choice than Karthikeyan, and given that odds are that F.I. will have a points scoring car next season, it makes more sense to have a driver who can actually score points. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by Londoner »

takagi_for_the_win wrote:Oh dear God no, this mustn't happen. I've nothing against Karthikeyan as a man or as a driver, but I feel that he is best suited to the back of the grid in terms of teams. I mean, look at some of the drivers whose careers face an uncertain period. Kobayashi. Kovaleinen. Sutil. Glock. Alguersuari. Perhaps even Trulli, Barrichello and Senna. IMO, any 1 of those drivers would be a better choice than Karthikeyan, and given that odds are that F.I. will have a points scoring car next season, it makes more sense to have a driver who can actually score points. Just my 2 cents.


But this is F1 Rejects. Therefore, this must happen, it'd be rejectastic! ;)

Technically, he's better than Di Resta, he's managed to unrejectify himself. :lol:
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by FullMetalJack »

I forgot to add in my other post, what if Force India somehow became the fastest team on the grid? Imagine KARTHIKEYANWINSLOL
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by Salamander »

redbulljack14 wrote:I forgot to add in my other post, what if Force India somehow became the fastest team on the grid? Imagine KARTHIKEYANWINSLOL


The universe would facepalm into oblivion.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

redbulljack14 wrote:I forgot to add in my other post, what if Force India somehow became the fastest team on the grid? Imagine KARTHIKEYANWINSLOL

Everyone would stop using Villeneuve as an example of an undeserving champion.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by Nessafox »

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:I forgot to add in my other post, what if Force India somehow became the fastest team on the grid? Imagine KARTHIKEYANWINSLOL

Everyone would stop using Villeneuve as an example of an undeserving champion.

Of course Villeneuve never had to beat future multiple world champion Paul Di Resta.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by Cynon »

This wrote:
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:I forgot to add in my other post, what if Force India somehow became the fastest team on the grid? Imagine KARTHIKEYANWINSLOL

Everyone would stop using Villeneuve as an example of an undeserving champion.

Of course Villeneuve never had to beat future multiple world champion Paul Di Resta.


Even if Karthikeyan MATCHES di Resta, this is fantastic, because then it can be quite easily said that Narain Karthikeyan is a future multiple world champion!! :D :D :D
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by Hound55 »

redbulljack14 wrote:I forgot to add in my other post, what if Force India somehow became the fastest team on the grid? Imagine KARTHIKEYANWINSLOL

I can't think of why, but I have a bizarre urge to use this as my sig...

If Karthikeyan gets the drive, then we could potentially watch de la Rosa and him plod around in the back of the pack some more. Just like old times :D
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by David AGS »

MONEY is the key word.

Its well known that Vijay's pockets are not as deep as they once were, and perhaps Sahara (Indian major backer) want an Indian driver alongside with TATA backing.

An Indian in a Force India team sounds nice doesnt it?
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by Earnard Beccelstone »

Serious question (disturbing thought, I know). What is the state of open wheel competition in India/South Asia?

From the little I can remember, the Asian F3 series folded in 2008 and the Asian GP2 series went the same way in 2011. That leaves, what? The Formula 1600 training wheels series and nothing else?
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by CoopsII »

David AGS wrote:An Indian in a Force India team sounds nice doesnt it?

It surely does and it'll be make or break for Narain as he wont be able to hid behind HRTs issues this time.

I know people may be negative about the fact its another pay-driver but it has epic reject potential if it happens so CHEER HIM ON. Im looking forward to the battle for 20th place!
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by mario »

David AGS wrote:MONEY is the key word.

Its well known that Vijay's pockets are not as deep as they once were, and perhaps Sahara (Indian major backer) want an Indian driver alongside with TATA backing.

An Indian in a Force India team sounds nice doesnt it?

To Bernie, the idea of an Indian driver in an Indian team might sound nice if he could then turn that to his advantage in marketing the sport in India.

However, deep as Karthikeyan's pockets are, I would have thought that the more likely scenario is that Bianchi will get the seat and Force India become a Ferrari customer team (Ferrari have said they are actively assisting Bianchi's bid to get a seat in F1, and Force India are the only ones with a seat available right now). That move would give them the option of forming a similar technical partnership with Ferrari as Sauber currently have, and I imagine that having a cheaper engine and better technical support post 2014, when costs are expected to rise, would outweigh the short term benefit of Karthikeyan's cash.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by AndreaModa »

One thing I have remembered, is where does Force India's supposed partnership with McLaren lie in all of this? If they plump for Bianchi and move to Ferrari engines they're going to loose the benefits of sharing data with McLaren and they'll have to manufacture their own gearbox for the Ferrari engines as currently they use McLaren ones. I can't see that as being much benefit when arguably the Mercedes engine is probably better anyway.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by Backmarker »

Earnard Beccelstone wrote:Serious question (disturbing thought, I know). What is the state of open wheel competition in India/South Asia?

From the little I can remember, the Asian F3 series folded in 2008 and the Asian GP2 series went the same way in 2011. That leaves, what? The Formula 1600 training wheels series and nothing else?


There's MRF Challenge, which has a Formula 2000 chassis, but because it's run in the European off-season it's dominated by drivers from outside India.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

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AndreaModa wrote:One thing I have remembered, is where does Force India's supposed partnership with McLaren lie in all of this? If they plump for Bianchi and move to Ferrari engines they're going to loose the benefits of sharing data with McLaren and they'll have to manufacture their own gearbox for the Ferrari engines as currently they use McLaren ones. I can't see that as being much benefit when arguably the Mercedes engine is probably better anyway.

The rumours suggest that they would get the entire drivetrain from Ferrari (i.e. engine, energy recovery systems and gearbox) as part of the deal, so that would remove the need to manufacture a gearbox in house (bear in mind that they currently use McLaren's transmission, so they only have limited in house capabilities in that regard). They would presumably have a similar arrangement to Sauber, so in some ways it would not be entirely dissimilar to their research agreement with McLaren (which, one would assume, would either be scaled back in scope or terminated altogether - without having either a common drivetrain, there would be less that they could co-operate over).

As for the issue of the engines, yes, the current Ferrari V8 could be a slightly worse deal - it is rumoured to have slightly higher cooling demands and fuel consumption than the Mercedes engine, although it is not clear if that is compensated for through higher peak power (Mercedes may still retain a slight advantage in that area, which would probably make their engine the slightly better choice).
However, it isn't 2013 but 2014 that the teams will be looking to, and the drastic change in the regulations could see the field of competition change (recall that, on the switch from the V10's to V8's, Mercedes, amongst other engine manufacturers, was slightly off the pace to begin with and had to claw its way back). Ferrari are likely to pour a lot of their resources into drivetrain development - being able to develop a better engine, along with better energy recovery systems, which will now be much more significant, could give them a competitive advantage (that has consistently been a weak point for Red Bull - consider that Newey's always hated KERS because of the packaging and cooling problems, hence why Red Bull have used an undersized system (Kravitz suggested that it was limited to 40kW)).

Given that Mercedes did take a little bit of time to adapt to the last engine rule change, whereas Ferrari were more competitive from the start, might be one reason why Force India might also find a Ferrari engine deal more attractive, apart from the more obvious possibility of saving money by striking a deal with Ferrari for free engines in return for signing Bianchi.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by dinizintheoven »

And what happened to that i1 Grand Prix or whatever it was supposed to be... is that going to start at any stage or did it go away quietly when we weren't looking?
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by IdeFan »

Ataxia [BacLettNinj] wrote:If Karthikeyan gets the Force India seat...bathplug it, I'll do an avatar challenge.


If Karthikeyan gets the drive, this will be my avatar:

Image

I might do it anyway, since I already took the time to make it.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by Backmarker »

dinizintheoven wrote:And what happened to that i1 Grand Prix or whatever it was supposed to be... is that going to start at any stage or did it go away quietly when we weren't looking?


Supposedly the first season will be held this year. Don't hold your breath though. And it's not open wheel, it's a single-make sportscar series, so not likely to generate much F1-worthy talent.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

IdeFan wrote:
Ataxia [BacLettNinj] wrote:If Karthikeyan gets the Force India seat...bathplug it, I'll do an avatar challenge.


If Karthikeyan gets the drive, this will be my avatar:

Image

I might do it anyway, since I already took the time to make it.

Who's Narain Karthkeyan?
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by IdeFan »

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
IdeFan wrote:
Ataxia [BacLettNinj] wrote:If Karthikeyan gets the Force India seat...bathplug it, I'll do an avatar challenge.


If Karthikeyan gets the drive, this will be my avatar:

Image

I might do it anyway, since I already took the time to make it.

Who's Narain Karthkeyan?


shite.

Fortunately I saved it as a multi layer so i can remake it.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by Klon »

mario wrote:However, deep as Karthikeyan's pockets are, I would have thought that the more likely scenario is that Bianchi will get the seat and Force India become a Ferrari customer team (Ferrari have said they are actively assisting Bianchi's bid to get a seat in F1, and Force India are the only ones with a seat available right now). That move would give them the option of forming a similar technical partnership with Ferrari as Sauber currently have, and I imagine that having a cheaper engine and better technical support post 2014, when costs are expected to rise, would outweigh the short term benefit of Karthikeyan's cash.


Well, the question is then: can they afford to think long-term? If the situation pretty much requires "Karthikeyan or bust" (and one knows he's bad off when that's the case), those long-term benefits you describe are nice but irrelevant since the team might just not make it until 2014. Especially if Ferrari are cooperative (yeah, right :roll: ) and agree to said technical partnership from 2014 onwards on a mere guarantee that Bianchi will get a contract for 2014 onwards.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by Yannick »

[quote="East Londoner"

But this is F1 Rejects. Therefore, this must happen, it'd be rejectastic! ;)

Statistically, he's better than Di Resta, he's managed to unrejectify himself. :lol:[/quote]

You are very correct about this. It should happen.

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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

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Di Resta has unrejectified himself with his fourth place in Singapore.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

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pi314159 wrote:Di Resta has unrejectified himself with his fourth place in Singapore.


Took him longer to do it, though - Karthikeyan did it in his first season. Tsk tsk, Paul. ;) :P
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by FMecha »

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
pi314159 wrote:Di Resta has unrejectified himself with his fourth place in Singapore.


Took him longer to do it, though - Karthikeyan did it in his first season. Tsk tsk, Paul. ;) :P


You can thank (and blame) Michelin for that! :P
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by pi314159 »

FMecha wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
pi314159 wrote:Di Resta has unrejectified himself with his fourth place in Singapore.


Took him longer to do it, though - Karthikeyan did it in his first season. Tsk tsk, Paul. ;) :P


You can thank (and blame) Michelin for that! :P

When does Enoch finally update the Hall of Shame and give Karthikeyan a joint second with Danner? I mean Danner even beat Boutsen and Herbert, while Karthikeyan just had the right tyre supplier.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

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Klon wrote:
mario wrote:However, deep as Karthikeyan's pockets are, I would have thought that the more likely scenario is that Bianchi will get the seat and Force India become a Ferrari customer team (Ferrari have said they are actively assisting Bianchi's bid to get a seat in F1, and Force India are the only ones with a seat available right now). That move would give them the option of forming a similar technical partnership with Ferrari as Sauber currently have, and I imagine that having a cheaper engine and better technical support post 2014, when costs are expected to rise, would outweigh the short term benefit of Karthikeyan's cash.


Well, the question is then: can they afford to think long-term? If the situation pretty much requires "Karthikeyan or bust" (and one knows he's bad off when that's the case), those long-term benefits you describe are nice but irrelevant since the team might just not make it until 2014. Especially if Ferrari are cooperative (yeah, right :roll: ) and agree to said technical partnership from 2014 onwards on a mere guarantee that Bianchi will get a contract for 2014 onwards.

It is true that Mallya's finances seem to be shaky, but somehow the team still seems to be functioning (for now at least).

Whether they can find some other source of stop gap funding until 2014 is open to question, unless they can somehow press Ferrari to cough up some sort of finance for 2013 in return for running Bianchi this year - not entirely out of the question, since it is rumoured that there was some sort of monetary exchange between Force India and Ferrari in return for Force India giving Bianchi testing time and Friday practise sessions to run in. Bianchi himself might be able to find some other source of finance too - there is a suggestion that he can raise some sponsorship (a figure of $6 million has been floated), so perhaps he might have some financial leverage.

All in all, though, could the team afford to take on Karthikeyan? Yes, he might bring in cash in the short term, but that would destroy their competitiveness at a time when the midfield pack seems to have closed up, and any cash that he brings in would probably be offset by a collapse in revenue from FOM from finishing lower in the WCC (slipping one place in the WCC is conservatively thought to cost the team about $10 million in revenue from FOM). Taking him on, therefore, could just defer their problems into 2014 - and, if anything, perhaps make them worse.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by Nessafox »

Force India could go for all: run Bianchi and Karthikeyan. I'm sure that buying out Di Resta's contract would be do-able. If the contract with Di Resta is too complicated (probably Mercedes and possibly Mclaren are involved in it) they could wait a year to run Bianchi.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by f1-gast »

I hope not... Sutil is the best option... but it will be Narain, though Mallya said he wouldnt ever take an indian driver because they are worse.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by FullMetalJack »

f1-gast wrote:I hope not... Sutil is the best option... but it will be Narain, though Mallya said he wouldnt ever take an indian driver because they are worse.


I hope Karthikeyan gets the drive for two reasons.

1. Any advantage Williams can get over them, the better. Especially since Williams had the better car last year and still lost out.
2. I'd like to see Karthikeyan in a car that doesn't suck, it could create some comedy.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by Barbazza »

I have no real preference between Karthikeyan or Bianchi, though I must admit that seeing Narain in that car would be quite amusing.

As long as it's one of those 2 and not Sutil - I don't particularly want to see the over-rated spolt brat back thanks. One spoilt brat is enough, and Lewis is a much better driver.
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by AndreaModa »

What's Sutil been doing for the last 12 months anyway? Is he even race fit?
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Re: Karthikeyan in force India link?

Post by mario »

AndreaModa wrote:What's Sutil been doing for the last 12 months anyway? Is he even race fit?

To be honest, I am not aware of him having taken part in any other racing series, but if he thinks he has a reasonable chance of getting his seat at Force India back, he'll probably have been trying to keep his fitness levels up as much as possible.

In some ways, the current turn of events at Force India are rather unusual by the standards of the modern driver market. With the exception of Caterham last year (when they unceremoniously kicked Trulli out of his seat), these days the line up of a team would normally be sorted out at least two to three months before the first tests (i.e. the driver would be signed up at the end of, or even during, the previous season), if only because any changes that might need to be made to the chassis accommodate a driver will have a lead time of several weeks (Sauber, for example, have had some problems with getting Hulkenberg to fit in their car because he is considerably taller than Gutierrez, and that is despite Hulkenberg having worked with Sauber for a few months now).

For a midfield team to have left it this close to the deadline - they have just over two weeks until they have to give the FIA their driver line up - is, therefore, a little surprising. Perhaps it is an intentional negotiating tactic to put one side or the other under the maximum pressure possible - if so, it is a risky strategy for either side to be playing in the circumstances.
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning:
"The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
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