Is BMW Sauber the new Honda

[rffp]

How does a team that made a solid and steady progress since their first race in 2006 till their 2008 victory in Montreal end up with 18th and 19th place in the Bahrein race? They were considered to be a 2009 championship contender (check Race Tech magazine cove on October 2009), they were the first to develop KERS, the first top team to admittedly focus on the 2009 car, and now they are challenging fiercely Force India to be the worst team in the grid! Ferrari and McLaren started badly the championship, but are showing signs of progress, but BMW Sauber showed some promise with Kubica's drive in Melbourneand are going now the wrong way making fast progress to end up dead last.

What has happened in Munich/Hinwill? Is Mario Thiessen completely lost? It seems so. They are so far, in my opinion, the Reject of the Year strongest candidate.

[CarlosFerreira]

Nope, not yet. They got a second place in Malaysia - admittedly a bit of a fluke, but second nonetheless -, Kubica was on a podium position at Melbourne until him and Vetel had that needless come together, and was coming up the field nicely in China when he hit Truli. Sure, not stellar, but better than Ferrari and Renault, in my opinion.

Remember, Bahrain is an odd circuit, second only to Monza in terms of flat-out time and focus on low aero.

I can't hep thinking the BMW is a too conservative car - it looks tall and short, and decisively old-school, so maybe such a rush to be the first car out left them with a package that is not so adaptable as, for instance, McLaren's.

Also, the Kubica weight soap opera is probably not helping. I suppose they should do what McLaren's doing: just stop fiddling, run the damn KERS and get on with it!

[rffp]

Also, the Kubica weight soap opera is probably not helping. I suppose they should do what McLaren's doing: just stop fiddling, run the damn KERS and get on with it!

BTW, in the online Autosport edition, there is an article by Mark Hughes on the problems faced by the teams that developed KERS: http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/2124

[CarlosFerreira]

Also, the Kubica weight soap opera is probably not helping. I suppose they should do what McLaren's doing: just stop fiddling, run the damn KERS and get on with it!

BTW, in the online Autosport edition, there is an article by Mark Hughes on the problems faced by the teams that developed KERS: http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/2124

Subscribers only, mate. Sorry, can't access it.

[rffp]

Subscribers only, mate. Sorry, can't access it.

Basically it says that the teams that spent time developing KERS, lost ground to those who spent time focusing on circumventing the downforce reduction. Mr. Hughes states the KERS raises the center of the gravity of a car and, therefore, losing grip. And it also states that BMW has a fuel-tank configuration that worsens that problem.

Even if they don't reach the Honda level, they are a huge disappointment.

[Yannick]

On German TV before the race, it was revealed that BMW Sauber had gotten a wrong weather forecast for the race containing a wrong prediction for the wind direction. So they adjusted their gearshift for these conditions. In the end, that wind never showed up and they were regularly in the rev limiter. And when you're in the rev limiter because the highest gear is set up too low (I don't know the correct technical term in English), the additional KERS energy cannot be brought onto the track.
And the strong bid they made for the nosecone championship in the 1st few laps didn't help either.
My hope is that they will abandon KERS completely on most of the tracks during the European Season where it's not needed, like Monaco, Nürburgring, Silverstone, Hungaroring, and only bring it back again for Monza and Valencia and then, that's it for KERS.
But they probably will run it again in Barcelona.
Let's wish them all the best for their car development.

[CarlosFerreira]

My hope is that they will abandon KERS completely on most of the tracks during the European Season where it's not needed, like Monaco, Nürburgring, Silverstone, Hungaroring, and only bring it back again for Monza and Valencia and then, that's it for KERS.
But they probably will run it again in Barcelona.
Let's wish them all the best for their car development.

I for once hope they don't abandon KERS. In fact, I hope the deployment of KERS becomes more widespread. BMW is supposed to present a new aero package for Barcelona, and that might help.

Hopefully, even with constructors mumbling, KERS is here to stay. It is an interesting development. Maybe some way to force constructors to use is can be found, like giving weight penalties to non-users. Remember when engines dropped from 3 litre V10s to 2.4 litre V8s? Some teams (Toro Rosso, and someone else, I believe) couldn't get the V8s, so they got the previous year's V10's, but rev-limited.

[LukeB]

It is an interesting development. Maybe some way to force constructors to use is can be found, like giving weight penalties to non-users.

Errr why? It's a gimmick, and so far a fairly useless one. I don't see why any team should be punished for having the good sense not to waste their time or effort on something which apprently makes so little diffrence. If/when it becomes worthwhile the teams will adopt it without the threat of penaltys and if it dosen't it's an expensive piece of worthless junk at a time when F1 is trying to cut costs.

[rffp]

On German TV before the race, it was revealed that BMW Sauber had gotten a wrong weather forecast for the race containing a wrong prediction for the wind direction.

You know a team is losing direction when they blame a wind for ending dead last.
I really hoped that BMW Sauber could deliver a strong season, but...

[CarlosFerreira]

Errr why? It's a gimmick, and so far a fairly useless one. I don't see why any team should be punished for having the good sense not to waste their time or effort on something which apprently makes so little diffrence. If/when it becomes worthwhile the teams will adopt it without the threat of penaltys and if it dosen't it's an expensive piece of worthless junk at a time when F1 is trying to cut costs.

True point there. It was known before the season got away that KERS would be troublesome. However, it's a good technology and I am kind of betting that, if KERS-runners weren't limited to 6.6 seconds per lap - probably a conservative measure, aimed at lowering the chance of failures in the systems - or if the power provided by the system was increased - estimates says it could easily double from the current 80 bhp - it would be a race winner.

Remember the Turbo era? When it arrived, everyone laughed. Three years down the line, the old order was completely turned upside down. Away went the beautiful, but 30-years old concept, Ford DFV.

The fact is we have to move forward, even if at first progress seems hindering. If you follow MotoGP, at the time of the move from 500cc 2-strokes to the 990cc 4-strokes, everyone said they would be rubbish, heavy, ungainly and that the previous year 2-strokes would walk all over their faces - but the new bikes won all the races and that was that. The equilibrium of the new regulation was specifically made to benefit the new formula, performance wise. Why? Because that's what constructors were looking forward to. BMW, Renault, Mercedes, the FIAT group are all looking forward to sell hybrid cars in the near future, and that's why they're showcasing KERS. It's also the reason why Citroen is testing a similar system in their all-conquering C4 WRC, and why Peugeot has something like it in their Le Mans racer, the 908 HDi FAP.

Gimmicky? Could be. But, at the end of the day, Formula 1 is a commercial venture, and those involved want to sell cars. This is the tech they want to be seen mastering.

[donald29]

No.

[Captain Hammer]

I don't think so. Honda's humiliation wasn't just a case of bad aerodynamics, it was a combination of bad aero, morons in the position to make important decisions and a livery campaign that saw no money coming in to the team. BMW-Sauber just seem to have bad aero. It's funny; they started development pretty early, but their car is possibly the most conservative on the grid in terms of design. Just look at their front wing: there's nothing there that suggests any imagination at all. Hopefully they'll get an aero upgrade soon and move up the timing sheets.

[noisebox]

They've had a really strange season:
Aus - nowhere in practice to nearly winning the race
Mal - lucky podium
Chn - off the pace
Bah - more off the pace
There's been flashes of pace, but they're so inconsistent

[WeirdKerr]

No.... because the gap on the grid this season has closed up so if a team ends up backed up in mid field they could have a bad race...caused by poor strategy or whatever but 4 races in it does not look good for BMW sauber And they are no worse of than those red FIAT cars.....