Tracks you would like to see again or appear in F1 Thread

[roblo97]

autopolis was meant to host the japanese gp in1992 before the owner went bankrupt

That still doesn't explain why Suzuka should be replaced.

ok then
1. it has a very nice variety of turns
2. the turn at the end of the back straight will be taken in 5th from a steep downhill approach
3. location may be a slight problem

[go_Rubens]

ok then
1. it has a very nice variety of turns
2. the turn at the end of the back straight will be taken in 5th from a steep downhill approach
3. location may be a slight problem

Autopolis should be a replacement because location may be a slight problem?! Suzuka has a nice variety of turns too.

[roblo97]

ok then
1. it has a very nice variety of turns
2. the turn at the end of the back straight will be taken in 5th from a steep downhill approach
3. location may be a slight problem

Autopolis should be a replacement because location may be a slight problem?! Suzuka has a nice variety of turns too.

its a small comprimise but all japanese tracks apart from suzuka and tsukuba are practically in the middle of noware

[inoue3210]

ok then
1. it has a very nice variety of turns
2. the turn at the end of the back straight will be taken in 5th from a steep downhill approach
3. location may be a slight problem

Autopolis should be a replacement because location may be a slight problem?! Suzuka has a nice variety of turns too.

i like uatopolis but its not as good as suzuka. if we could take one of the tilkedromes off the calendar and replace it with a pacific gp at autopolis thatd be aweome. the owerns of autopolis always seem to have financial problems for some reason though so they probably couldnt pay the ridiculous fia fees but hey i can dream

[roblo97]

Maybe get tilke tried for crimes against sport

[mario]

The fact that some posters here found that the Valencian GP produced a more interesting race in 2012 than Silverstone did does show that, sometimes, a high speed circuit can actually make for a relatively poor track from the point of view of the spectators.

This is true, but how many tracks with high average speeds provide for processional races? Monza is never boring. I don't remember a boring race at the old Hockenheim for the exception of 2001. Albert Park has high average speeds for a street circuit and sees great action. Interlagos is fantastic and has speed. These tracks prove how good high speed tracks can be, although the past three races at Silverstone have been utter bull paddies. Only Silverstone's prestige keeps it on the calendar.

Those are all high-speed tracks because of long straights, not fast turns. What mario was getting at is that the short braking distances at Silverstone make passing difficult. If you have long straights and tight turns, like all of the tracks you mentioned there, passing will be easy.

That was what I was trying to drive at - at a venue like Silverstone, there are few parts of the track where the drivers can be on the brakes and attempt to make a passing move because, if the rest of the track is effectively flat out, there are few other places where one driver would have enough of a performance difference to overtake another driver.

Equally, there is also the question of what parts of a track the drivers find interesting, since sometimes it isn't always the parts which outside observers might assume would be the case. Spa, for example, is a popular track with the drivers, but if you look closely at the parts of that circuit that the drivers tend to talk about the most, they mostly talk about the middle sector of the track, where most of the corners are medium to medium-high speeds rather than high speed. Eau Rouge is the corner that the press talk about because of its history but, as several drivers have pointed out, for the drivers the corner is not particularly special because it is relatively easy with the current cars - it is corners like Pouhon (which I believe Kimi has said is the corner he enjoyed the most at Spa), where they cannot go flat out, that are more interesting to them because they are more challenging.

Equally, when we are discussing the venues that we want to see, are we talking about those venues from the point of view of the driver or that of the spectator?

I wanted to see the ideas for venues that are both exciting for the driver and/or the spectator. All ideas are welcome.

It's a delicate balancing act, though, since there are some features that one party or the other might like but the other dislikes.

For example, from the point of view of a driver, a corner that is off cambered (i.e. where the track surface is inclined away from the apex rather than into the apex) is awkward because it complicates the set up work and upsets the handling of the car. However, from the point of view of the spectator, off camber corners can be used to generate interest since they are more likely to challenge the drivers and potentially provoke mistakes, which helps to separate out the performance of the drivers and cars more distinctly. Now that is a relatively simplistic example that looks at just one small aspect of a track, but the issue of compromises is one that will come up over multiple aspects of a track and shows that it isn't always easy to keep both sides satisfied.

[go_Rubens]

It's a delicate balancing act, though, since there are some features that one party or the other might like but the other dislikes.

This is true. I wonder if there are any tracks that the drivers like and the spectator likes in terms of action on track.

[HonoraryNortherner]

I'd like to mention Mont Treblant in this debate. Classic circuit, Champ Car race there in 2007 was pretty entertaining, especially with their climate, which is similar to that of Spa.

[go_Rubens]

I'd like to mention Mont Treblant in this debate. Classic circuit, Champ Car race there in 2007 was pretty entertaining, especially with their climate, which is similar to that of Spa.

Mont Tremblant would be an entertaining race from my point of view.

[the Masked Lapwing]

F1 at Bathurst would be cool, but the requirements for F1 would either be too expensive or destroy the entire run across the top of mountain. There's only one corner up there where you can make a mistake and possibly keep it out of the fence, and it should stay that way.

Rather, I'd like to see F1 go to Eastern Creek. It'd be interesting seeing how many drivers would try to take turn 1 flat, there are a few overtaking oppurtunities and elevation changes. All it needs is about 6 more grandstands and better access to the circuit. Alternatively, Surfers Paradise would be fun. The race would be boring as hell but watching an F1 car attack the kerbs on a qualifying lap sounds brilliant

[go_Rubens]

Alternatively, Surfers Paradise would be fun. The race would be boring as hell but watching an F1 car attack the kerbs on a qualifying lap sounds brilliant

Let's wait and see how much kerb the drivers dare take Also, how close to the walls the drivers dare get. The race would be interesting in the name of sliding F1 cars in every turn (possibly)

[F1000X]

I think there is a case to be made about Tilke bringing the sport into disrepute. Fine him 10 million.

[go_Rubens]

I think there is a case to be made about Tilke bringing the sport into disrepute. Fine him 10 million.

Agreed! His tracks tend to host the more boring races and he (along with Bernie) ripped the soul out of the Osterreichring and Hockenheim, which was utterly despicable in my opinion.

[UncreativeUsername37]

I think there is a case to be made about Tilke bringing the sport into disrepute. Fine him 10 million.

Agreed! His tracks tend to host the more boring races and he (along with Bernie) ripped the soul out of the Osterreichring and Hockenheim, which was utterly despicable in my opinion.

With some of the tracks (I know Hockenheim is one), he was really restricted with the space he was allowed to work with. He really couldn't've done much different in a lot of cases, so don't blame him for everything.

[roblo97]

What about mosport park

Would
Need lengthening

[James1978]

Going back to Suzuka, I preferred the final chicane in its former layout. Why was it changed from the classic layout of the Senna/Prost days?

[go_Rubens]

Going back to Suzuka, I preferred the final chicane in its former layout. Why was it changed from the classic layout of the Senna/Prost days?

I think the chicane may have changed for safety, but I'm not sure.

Also, 130r was changed in 2003 for safety concerns as a result of McNish's crash in 2002.
They kept the old chicane there, and maybe F1 will use it again.

[roblo97]

Did you know

You can drive down through eau rouge on race driver grid and the fun thing is that it brings the inside wall on the first left into play but other than that, it feels normal

[go_Rubens]

What about mosport park

Would
Need lengthening

Who the hell would dare lengthen Mosport? Mosport is a fantastic track as is.
But, you are right though. Mosport is too short for F1 standards.

[johnnyCarwash]

Which makes me wonder, what is the minimum length track F1 can race on?

Cause ruling out that Mosport is too short for current F1 means Laguna Seca would need lengthening too.
Speaking of short tracks though, Brands Hatch Indy or Norisring would be awesome for high lap count GP.

On a more serious note. Does anyone know if the A1 ring will have the planned extension Red Bull promised when they bough it?

[dr-baker]

Which makes me wonder, what is the minimum length track F1 can race on? Speaking of short tracks though, Brands Hatch Indy or Norisring would be awesome for high lap count GP.

Brand s Hatch Indy would sadly also lead to a processional race if the ChampCar race from 10 or so years ago was anything to go by (although I read that their pit stop window rule was something to do with it at the time). And at 1.2 miles in length, it would equate to approximately 159 laps (assuming the rule is minimum 190 miles...).

[tommykl]

Which makes me wonder, what is the minimum length track F1 can race on?

Cause ruling out that Mosport is too short for current F1 means Laguna Seca would need lengthening too.
Speaking of short tracks though, Brands Hatch Indy or Norisring would be awesome for high lap count GP.

On a more serious note. Does anyone know if the A1 ring will have the planned extension Red Bull promised when they bough it?

I believe the limit is 3.5km (with an exception made for Monaco).

[mario]

Which makes me wonder, what is the minimum length track F1 can race on?

Cause ruling out that Mosport is too short for current F1 means Laguna Seca would need lengthening too.
Speaking of short tracks though, Brands Hatch Indy or Norisring would be awesome for high lap count GP.

On a more serious note. Does anyone know if the A1 ring will have the planned extension Red Bull promised when they bough it?

The bigger problem with Laguna Seca, asides from its length, is the Corkscrew - the crash mitigation measures for that corner would not meet the FIA's safety standards, and moving the barriers back would be quite expensive given the local topography.

As for the A1 Ring, as far as I am aware the proposed extension was never built in the end - the pictures on the website of the track suggest that it still retains its old layout, albeit with a new pit complex. That said, whilst in theory the circuit could probably hold a race, at the moment it looks like Mateschitz is not willing to stump up the sort of fees that FOM are looking for (not to mention that the narrowness of the circuit makes recovering a broken down car difficult, something which has long been an issue with the track), so it's quite unlikely to return to the calendar any time soon.

[Backmarker]

I hope Imola comes back since its remodel. And I would like to see a British circuit host the European grand prix (Donnington or Brands), with it essentially being in competition with Silverstone for the British GP rights.

Also, Slovakiaring looks pretty good

[dr-baker]

I hope Imola comes back since its remodel. And I would like to see a British circuit host the European grand prix (Donnington or Brands), with it essentially being in competition with Silverstone for the British GP rights.

Much as I hate to say it, I think Rockingham is more likely to host a GP race in the near future than Brands Hatch. Rockingham has a Grade 1T licience, while Brands is Grade 2 (I think, off the top of my head, from what I have read previously on this forum).

[Backmarker]

I hope Imola comes back since its remodel. And I would like to see a British circuit host the European grand prix (Donnington or Brands), with it essentially being in competition with Silverstone for the British GP rights.

Much as I hate to say it, I think Rockingham is more likely to host a GP race in the near future than Brands Hatch. Rockingham has a Grade 1T licience, while Brands is Grade 2 (I think, off the top of my head, from what I have read previously on this forum).

Rockingham is too short and only grade 2. Donington and Brands are both grade 2 as well, but they're of sufficient length. Quite a lot of circuits that are grade 2 are of sufficient quality to become grade 1 (some need safety + facility upgrades), but don't want to pay for the homologation, because the only extra grade 1 rating gives is being able to host F1 races, which won't happen because they know there's not going to be an F1 race there.

[roblo97]

I hope Imola comes back since its remodel. And I would like to see a British circuit host the European grand prix (Donnington or Brands), with it essentially being in competition with Silverstone for the British GP rights.

Much as I hate to say it, I think Rockingham is more likely to host a GP race in the near future than Brands Hatch. Rockingham has a Grade 1T licience, while Brands is Grade 2 (I think, off the top of my head, from what I have read previously on this forum).

Rockingham is too short and only grade 2. Donington and Brands are both grade 2 as well, but they're of sufficient length. Quite a lot of circuits that are grade 2 are of sufficient quality to become grade 1 (some need safety + facility upgrades), but don't want to pay for the homologation, because the only extra grade 1 rating gives is being able to host F1 races, which won't happen because they know there's not going to be an F1 race there.

Actually Rockingham is 4.120KM

[Backmarker]

Actually Rockingham is 4.120KM

The longest of the licensed grade 2 configurations is 3.123km.

[roblo97]

Actually Rockingham is 4.120KM

The longest of the licensed grade 2 configurations is 3.123km.

You are thinking of the national short circuit which they use for the BTCC but I picked the international long

[go_Rubens]

I hope Imola comes back since its remodel. And I would like to see a British circuit host the European grand prix (Donnington or Brands), with it essentially being in competition with Silverstone for the British GP rights.

Also, Slovakiaring looks pretty good

I'd just eliminate the European GP altogether. F1 didn't want two races in Germany, and Valencia sucks big time. Catalunya is fairly boring too.

[Backmarker]

Actually Rockingham is 4.120KM

The longest of the licensed grade 2 configurations is 3.123km.

You are thinking of the national short circuit which they use for the BTCC but I picked the international long

Here's the list of FIA licensed circuits - presumably there's a mistake with regards the length of "Rockingham spdwy int. long" though, which is what's confusing me. Or the longest circuit configuration is currently unlicensed - but given the rest of the track is grade 2, they could easily have it licensed.

[dr-baker]

Here's the list of FIA licensed circuits - presumably there's a mistake with regards the length of "Rockingham spdwy int. long" though, which is what's confusing me. Or the longest circuit configuration is currently unlicensed - but given the rest of the track is grade 2, they could easily have it licensed.

Interesting. Because I was so sure that one of Rockingham's configurations had a 1T grading...

[SeedStriker]

Going back to Suzuka, I preferred the final chicane in its former layout. Why was it changed from the classic layout of the Senna/Prost days?

Actually, the issue with the Casio Triangle was not F1, but the fatal crash of Daijiro Kato in MotoGP. The whole corner was changed in hope that MotoGP stayed in Suzuka, but they prefered the Twin Ring Motegi as subsitute.

Although Mosport has a great layout as a track, the safety barriers need an urgent update. ALMS visit last year there showed that, as the race was red flagged while the old armco barriers needed a patch after a monumental hit. Mont Tremblant would be an excellent venue, but with Circuit Gilles Villeneuve avaiable and giving us great racing lately, it would be a miracle to change sites.
Turkey with a better administration (and without Bernie's greedy hands) needs an urgent return to F1. Better if it replaces snorfests as Mont Meló or Valencia Harbor.

[johnnyCarwash]

Here's the list of FIA licensed circuits - presumably there's a mistake with regards the length of "Rockingham spdwy int. long" though, which is what's confusing me. Or the longest circuit configuration is currently unlicensed - but given the rest of the track is grade 2, they could easily have it licensed.

That's an interesting list. Both Bathurst and Nordschleife are grade 3 . Though interestingly there are a few interesting tracks in the Grade 2 category with 1T attached, such as Zandvort. A track which isn't on the list is Buenos Aires, but they do have an Argentine circuit in San Luis

As for the A1 Ring, as far as I am aware the proposed extension was never built in the end - the pictures on the website of the track suggest that it still retains its old layout, albeit with a new pit complex. That said, whilst in theory the circuit could probably hold a race, at the moment it looks like Mateschitz is not willing to stump up the sort of fees that FOM are looking for (not to mention that the narrowness of the circuit makes recovering a broken down car difficult, something which has long been an issue with the track), so it's quite unlikely to return to the calendar any time soon.

According to that list the circuit does have a grade 1 license but I also can't see there being a race there in the near future. I would love to see that extension though . A narrow track can be more entertaining to drive from a driver's perspective, such as various driver comments from the Mugello test last season, but racing there is always a different matter.

Turkey with a better administration (and without Bernie's greedy hands) needs an urgent return to F1. Better if it replaces snorfests as Mont Meló or Valencia Harbor.

I think a Spanish GP should be from Montjuic or even Jarama

[Backmarker]

A narrow track can be more entertaining to drive from a driver's perspective, such as various driver comments from the Mugello test last season, but racing there is always a different matter.

It's an odd complaint, as Mugello isn't horifically narrow, but it's quite fast with it. Singapore and Hockenheim are narrower.

With the list, worth noting that Austin/COTA isn't on it. COTA is, of course, grade 1.

[Wallio]

Where's COTA? And all the Grade 5 tracks?

[Backmarker]

Where's COTA? And all the Grade 5 tracks?

COTA was graded in September, after this list was published - I can't find a more up-to-date list. Grade 5 tracks are those which may run races for Alternative Energy Vehicles. So there aren't any at the moment.

[Wallio]

Where's COTA? And all the Grade 5 tracks?

COTA was graded in September, after this list was published - I can't find a more up-to-date list. Grade 5 tracks are those which may run races for Alternative Energy Vehicles. So there aren't any at the moment.

Makes sense. Looks like the boys at Miller we're full 'o shite. Like I said they claimed they were 1T when they opened (well they claimed they were actually a 1 but wouldn't pony up the $25,000,000 to get past 1T). I searched briefly for this presser, it was '08 IIR but I can't be arsed to really look for it. Regardless their website still has this gem "Miller Motorsports Park is the most advanced, safest and best-equipped road racing facility in North America" Yea, I'm gonna say no on that one. Anyway, When US F1 asked to skip the first X races of 2010, they were going to to test at Barber and Miller, supposedly because both were 1T. Barber is there, but the FIA must missed the memo on Miller.

[go_Rubens]

Actually, the issue with the Casio Triangle was not F1, but the fatal crash of Daijiro Kato in MotoGP. The whole corner was changed in hope that MotoGP stayed in Suzuka, but they prefered the Twin Ring Motegi as subsitute.

Then why hasn't F1 used the old chicane when the new one was for MotoGP?

[nome66]

Actually, the issue with the Casio Triangle was not F1, but the fatal crash of Daijiro Kato in MotoGP. The whole corner was changed in hope that MotoGP stayed in Suzuka, but they prefered the Twin Ring Motegi as subsitute.

Then why hasn't F1 used the old chicane when the new one was for MotoGP?

its increased radius appears to be better for "last-ditch" passing before the front stretch.
also the runoff is a bit better than just gravel