What's the worst finish in an F1 race?

Mister Fungus · Post by **Mister Fungus** » 15 Dec 2009, 19:49

I guess this topic can be put in the category of rejectdom.

I know the grid used to be 26 cars but the realiability was poorer, in 2009 the worst race finisher was 19th (Heidfeld in Bahrain). What I want to know is what was the worst classification of an F1 driver race finish in history?

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 15 Dec 2009, 19:59

Narain Karthikeyan came 20th at the 2005 Italian GP, a race in which there were no retirements.

Can't think of a lower one off the top of my head.

SuperAguri · Post by **SuperAguri** » 15 Dec 2009, 20:09

Aryton senna qualified 3rd and finished 20th at the 1990 Mexican GP (admitted he had retired but was still classified), the worst drop in F1 history. Sebastian Bourdias who had qualified an excellent 4th in the 2008 Italian GP and came 18th, just ahead of Adrian Sutil in the Force India and Fissichella who did retire...

Pieman · Post by **Pieman** » 15 Dec 2009, 20:13

There have been two other races with 20 finishers that I can remember - one was the 1991 Australian GP which was of course stopped after 14 laps due to the weather, and I think it was Karl Wendlinger (March-Ilmor) who was 20th. I'll look the other one up when I have my library to hand.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 15 Dec 2009, 20:20

Sakon Yamamoto was classified 20th twice in a row in 2007 (Turkey & Italy). At the same Turkish race, Sutil was classified 21st, but he didn't actually finish the race (retired 5 laps before the finish).

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 15 Dec 2009, 23:37

I would say the Forti's in Argentina 1995 - They finished but were so far behind they were not classified! :lol:

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 15 Dec 2009, 23:49

Collieafc wrote:I would say the Forti's in Argentina 1995 - They finished but were so far behind they were not classified!

Tssss ... nine laps behind? Amateurs. They should take a lesson from Mark Webber in Brazil 2005. Not classified with 26 laps behind Montoya.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 16 Dec 2009, 08:32

This brings to mind another interesting subjects: Lapped drivers that have scored points! Let's talk about that.
Wasn't there a race somewhere in the 2000s where Michael Schumacher lapped the entire field??

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 16 Dec 2009, 09:03

Waris wrote:This brings to mind another interesting subjects: Lapped drivers that have scored points! Let's talk about that.
Wasn't there a race somewhere in the 2000s where Michael Schumacher lapped the entire field??

Well Mika Salo & Hakkinen scored points in Monaco 1996 despite crashing out something like 5 laps from the finish. That's even stranger than being lapped and scoring.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 16 Dec 2009, 09:30

Only race where I can recall Schumacher lapping whole field was Brazilian GP 1994. He and Senna were so dominant that lapped everyone else. Then Senna spun off so Michael was left only one who completed full distance.

Also interesting fact from the same race from the following year. Schumacher and Coulthard were only one with 71 laps completed. They were both disqualified for using illegal fuel after the race so Gerhard Berger ended race winner, having completed only 70 laps. However, MS and DC were re-instated later.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 16 Dec 2009, 10:35

Waris wrote:This brings to mind another interesting subjects: Lapped drivers that have scored points! Let's talk about that.
Wasn't there a race somewhere in the 2000s where Michael Schumacher lapped the entire field??

Adelaide 1995, where Damon Hill lapped the two other podium finishers... twice!

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 16 Dec 2009, 15:11

dr-baker wrote:
Waris wrote:This brings to mind another interesting subjects: Lapped drivers that have scored points! Let's talk about that.
Wasn't there a race somewhere in the 2000s where Michael Schumacher lapped the entire field??

Adelaide 1995, where Damon Hill lapped the two other podium finishers... twice!

Damn you beat me to it! Let me wheel out some of my Books!

Now, heres a quick list of races where only the top 3 at most, went the full distance (there are too many where 5th and 6th got lapped). This book only goes up to the end of 1998 though:
1998 British GP: only the Top 3 (2 Ferraris and one McLaren)
1998 Australian GP: only the top 2 (Both the Mclarens)

1996 Hungarian GP: Top 3 (2 Williams and Alesi's Benetton)
1996Spanish GP: Top 3 (Schumacher, JV and Alesi, but only 6 finishers classified)
1996Monaco GP: Top 3 (Panis, DC and Herbert, but there were 7 classed finishers :shock:

)
1996Brazilian GP: Top 2 (Hill and Alesi)

1995 Australian GP: Only Damon Hill
1995 Pacific GP: Top 3 (Schumi and the 2 Williams)
1995 European GP: Top 3 (Schumi, Alesi and DC)
1995 Hungarian GP: Top 2 (Both Williams)
1995 Monaco GP: Top 3 (Schumi, Hill and Berger)
1995 Argentinian GP: Top 3 (Hill, Alesi, Schumi)
1995 Brazilian GP: Top 2 (Schumi and DC, as said by Bleu, they got DQed for a bit so Berger won without going the full distance!)

1994 Hungary GP: Top 3 (Both Benettons and Hill)
1994 French GP: Top 3 (Schumi, Hill and Berger)
1994 Spanish GP: Top 3 (Hill, Schumi and Blundell :shock:

)
1994 Monaco GP: Top 3 (Schumi, Brundle and Berger)
1994 Pacific GP: Top 2 (Schumi and Berger)
1994 Brazil GP: Only Schumi

1993 Australia GP: Top 3 (Senna and 2 Wiliams)
1993 Italy GP: Top 2 (Hill and Alesi)
1993 Hungary GP: Top 3 (Hill, Patrese and Berger)
1993 Canada GP: Top 3 (2 Williams and Schumi)
1993 Monaco GP: Top 3 (Senna, Hill, Alesi)
1993 Spain GP: Top 3 (Prost, Senna, Schumi)
1993 San Marino GP: Top 2 (Prost and Schumi)
1993 European GP: Top 2 (Senna and Hill)
1993 South African GP: Top 2 (Prost and Senna)

1992 Australia GP: Top 3 (Berger, Schumi, Brundle)
1992 Jaman GP: Top 3 (Patrese, Berger and Brundle)
1992 Portugal GP: Top 2 (Mansell and Berger. Senna was 3rd and lapped!

)
1992 French GP: Top 3 (2 Williams and Brundle)
1992 Canada GP: Top 3 (Berger, Schumi and Alesi)
1992 Brazil GP: Top 3 (2 Williams and Schumi)

1991 Mexican GP: Top 3 (2 Williams and Senna)
1991 Monaco GP: Top 3 (Senna, Mansell, Alesi)
1991 San Marino GP: Top 2 (Both McLaren)
1991 US GP: Top 3 (Senna, Prost and Piquet)

1990 Monaco GP: Top 3 (Both McLarens and Alesi)

I only done the 1990s in reverse order. But a quick flick through the 1980s showed me that Prost was the only one to go full distance on at least 2 occasions.

It did point out some interesting stuff though. First is that new regulations seem a good way to balance the field, but not always (1990 was the second year where turbo was banned, a lot of changes happened properly from 1995 onwards, and 2009 proved it VERY well). Secondly, that 1993 was indeed as most people suspect, where the gap between the big 3 and the rest was at its largest (over half of the 16 races had everybody lapped up to 3rd, another 3 races had lapped up to 4th). Thirdly, its usually the same tracks that appear on this list (although that will be more down to length, than anything else, hence why Spa and the old Hokenheim doesnt feature). And finally, if you keep the regulations fairly stable (as they were from 1997) but limited (especially driver aids, as 1993 showed) and have some continuity (again, 1997 on) the gap between the field eventually closes. Thats my conclusions anyway, but they are not set in stone (even here, you can see exceptions)

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 17 Dec 2009, 11:49

Well, I was giving somebody the chance to point out that Damon Hill actually equalled Jackie Stewart's record of winning by two laps at the Spanish Grand Prix one year in the early 1970's... And people say Michael Schumacher was dominant... :lol:

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 17 Dec 2009, 12:14

dr-baker wrote:Well, I was giving somebody the chance to point out that Damon Hill actually equalled Jackie Stewart's record of winning by two laps at the Spanish Grand Prix one year in the early 1970's... And people say Michael Schumacher was dominant...

But the race Hill did it in turned into a massive demolition derby so it doesn't count :lol:

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 17 Dec 2009, 12:17

Wizzie wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Well, I was giving somebody the chance to point out that Damon Hill actually equalled Jackie Stewart's record of winning by two laps at the Spanish Grand Prix one year in the early 1970's... And people say Michael Schumacher was dominant...

But the race Hill did it in turned into a massive demolition derby so it doesn't count

A demolition derby that caught the almighty, dominant Schumacher out... To finish first, first you have to finish, and that Damon did...

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 17 Dec 2009, 12:30

It just seemed like 2nd place was cursed in that race. From engine failures to crashing into the pit wall...

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 17 Dec 2009, 13:15

Collieafc wrote:It just seemed like 2nd place was cursed in that race. From engine failures to crashing into the pit wall...

And Panis, who did eventually finish 2nd, was billowing engine smoke for several laps before the end.

Pieman · Post by **Pieman** » 17 Dec 2009, 13:48

dr-baker wrote:
Collieafc wrote:It just seemed like 2nd place was cursed in that race. From engine failures to crashing into the pit wall...

And Panis, who did eventually finish 2nd, was billowing engine smoke for several laps before the end.

Just think - had he retired, we would have had a Footwork in second and a Forti in the points - and if anyone else had dropped out, a Pacific would have scored a point!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 17 Dec 2009, 15:15

Pieman wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
Collieafc wrote:It just seemed like 2nd place was cursed in that race. From engine failures to crashing into the pit wall...

And Panis, who did eventually finish 2nd, was billowing engine smoke for several laps before the end.

Just think - had he retired, we would have had a Footwork in second and a Forti in the points - and if anyone else had dropped out, a Pacific would have scored a point!

Would have been epic. Just think how many points they would have under the 2010 points system!

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 17 Dec 2009, 16:13

dr-baker wrote:Well, I was giving somebody the chance to point out that Damon Hill actually equalled Jackie Stewart's record of winning by two laps at the Spanish Grand Prix one year in the early 1970's... And people say Michael Schumacher was dominant...

Damon Hill was the guy that actually managed to get lapped driving a Williams-Renault! And people say Damon Hill is a Top-10 all time driver...

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 17 Dec 2009, 16:19

rffp wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Well, I was giving somebody the chance to point out that Damon Hill actually equalled Jackie Stewart's record of winning by two laps at the Spanish Grand Prix one year in the early 1970's... And people say Michael Schumacher was dominant...

Damon Hill was the guy that actually managed to get lapped driving a Williams-Renault! And people say Damon Hill is a Top-10 all time driver...

Alain Prost, in a Williams-Renault, finished a lap behind Senna at the 1993 European GP at Donington, while Damon was the only driver to finish on the same lap as the winner...

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 17 Dec 2009, 16:21

dr-baker wrote:
rffp wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Well, I was giving somebody the chance to point out that Damon Hill actually equalled Jackie Stewart's record of winning by two laps at the Spanish Grand Prix one year in the early 1970's... And people say Michael Schumacher was dominant...

Damon Hill was the guy that actually managed to get lapped driving a Williams-Renault! And people say Damon Hill is a Top-10 all time driver...

Alain Prost, in a Williams-Renault, finished a lap behind Senna at the 1993 European GP at Donington, while Damon was the only driver to finish on the same lap as the winner...

OK, you got a point, so let me correct my statement. Damon Hill was the guy that actually managed to get lapped driving in dry conditions a Williams-Renault!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 17 Dec 2009, 16:25

OK, i'm going to go away and try to defend Damon further. After all, he helped me get obsessed with F1 in the first place...

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 17 Dec 2009, 18:44

dr-baker wrote:OK, you got a point, so let me correct my statement. Damon Hill was the guy that actually managed to get lapped driving in dry conditions a Williams-Renault!

Yeah, once at the 94 Brazilian GP (he retired in all the other races mentioned between 93 and 96 where he wasn't one of the unlapped cars), in a Williams FW16, that while quick, was charitably described as "having problems" or being "a bit loose at the back". About all it really proves is that he wasn't as quick as Schumacher (cause the Bennetton 194 wasn't overly easy to drive either), which we kind of knew.

Not saying he should be in the top 10 driver lists, but he gets a bit of unfair stick, imho.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 17 Dec 2009, 19:58

He may have finished 4th, but Trulli losing 3rd to Barrichello at France 2004 was bad. EPIC FAIL.

ImissJORDAN · Post by **ImissJORDAN** » 17 Dec 2009, 20:58

I would say that your Hill one-upmanship is pointless, because the race in question was a) a demolition derby, as someone has already cited, but b) nobody has mentioned that Panis in fact let Damon past before the finish for that second lap so that his Prost didn't have the chance to expire on the next lap. Hardly proves Hill as 'dominant'. Anyway, any kind of win is dependant upon so many factors that dominance is hardly an objective thing. I thought this thread was about the worst finish.

On that note, I can't find anyone classified under 20th within the 2000s, and don't think anything before barring Indy 500s, part of F1 only statistically, would have that many finishers due to th appalling reliability of the pre-1990s. Next year, we might get even lowlier finishers with 26 cars on the grid.

Tealy · Post by **Tealy** » 18 Dec 2009, 11:18

Good point. We will probably see a new record late next year once most teams sort out reliability issues.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 18 Dec 2009, 12:33

Okay, after wasting tons of time, I've found someone who finished worse than 20th, in a race that was not the Indy 500. Alan Brown is classified as the 22nd finisher of the 1952 British Grand Prix, albeit 16 laps down.

Tealy · Post by **Tealy** » 18 Dec 2009, 12:46

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Okay, after wasting tons of time, I've found someone who finished worse than 20th, in a race that was not the Indy 500. Alan Brown is classified as the 22nd finisher of the 1952 British Grand Prix, albeit 16 laps down.

Nice find!

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 28 Dec 2009, 13:34

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Okay, after wasting tons of time, I've found someone who finished worse than 20th, in a race that was not the Indy 500. Alan Brown is classified as the 22nd finisher of the 1952 British Grand Prix, albeit 16 laps down.

This result probably makes him a deserving candidate for a profile on this site.

Somehow, this thread reminds me of the Bahrain GP one or two years back when Jenson Button (in the Earth car) and David Coulthard (in the RBR) collided whilst fighting for 19th position and both had to retire as a result.

Tealy · Post by **Tealy** » 29 Dec 2009, 11:18

Yannick wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Okay, after wasting tons of time, I've found someone who finished worse than 20th, in a race that was not the Indy 500. Alan Brown is classified as the 22nd finisher of the 1952 British Grand Prix, albeit 16 laps down.

This result probably makes him a deserving candidate for a profile on this site.

Somehow, this thread reminds me of the Bahrain GP one or two years back when Jenson Button (in the Earth car) and David Coulthard (in the RBR) collided whilst fighting for 19th position and both had to retire as a result.

He can't have a conventional profile as he isn't eligable (One 5th and one 6th place finish).

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 30 Dec 2009, 16:27

Yannick wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Okay, after wasting tons of time, I've found someone who finished worse than 20th, in a race that was not the Indy 500. Alan Brown is classified as the 22nd finisher of the 1952 British Grand Prix, albeit 16 laps down.

This result probably makes him a deserving candidate for a profile on this site.

Somehow, this thread reminds me of the Bahrain GP one or two years back when Jenson Button (in the Earth car) and David Coulthard (in the RBR) collided whilst fighting for 19th position and both had to retire as a result.

Damn, now that is rejectworthy...
Also, maybe statistics of this kind necessitate new pages on the site? I think it would be fun if the site were expanded a little bit to cover even more information about rejects. You know, ever since I discovered F1 Rejects in, I think, around 2003, I've followed F1 in a different way, the "F1 Rejects" way. </random musings>

Grand Prix Rejects

What's the worst finish in an F1 race?

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