Most Pointless F1 things

[roblo97]

One of the most pointless things I've ever seen was the BRM H16 from the sixties

[madmark1974]

THIS THREAD

I hope this was intended as a joke or a wind up, otherwise the depths we have gone to are worse than I feared.

[Shadaza]

The Clapping girls at the end of race.

If you are talking literally, Luca Badoer.

[Marco]

Well, the engine won a race (in a Lotus Chassis) and the BRM car got a 2nd place with Stewart and a couple of points for Spence, so while it certainly was not a groundbraking effort, there were many, many F1 things, that were much more pointless (as the engine collected 24 points and the car 15, if I count correctly, it most definitely was not pointless )

Marco, who has a soft spot for the BRM, as I drove it for years in Grand Prix Legends, and built a model kit of the P83 a few months ago

[mario]

THIS THREAD

I hope this was intended as a joke or a wind up, otherwise the depths we have gone to are worse than I feared.

It's in response to the speculation over in the thread about the 2014 turbo engines that Mercedes may have manipulated the audio clip of a simulated lap of Monza in order to disguise some of its characteristics. At the very least, Mercedes have since said that the recording is not entirely representative of their new engine, with the room being soundproofed for the benefit of its staff and the exhaust gases being vented to the atmosphere rather than into the room, so it does seem a little pointless to release an audio clip and then admit that the engine doesn't sound quite like that.

[madmark1974]

THIS THREAD

I hope this was intended as a joke or a wind up, otherwise the depths we have gone to are worse than I feared.

It's in response to the speculation over in the thread about the 2014 turbo engines that Mercedes may have manipulated the audio clip of a simulated lap of Monza in order to disguise some of its characteristics. At the very least, Mercedes have since said that the recording is not entirely representative of their new engine, with the room being soundproofed for the benefit of its staff and the exhaust gases being vented to the atmosphere rather than into the room, so it does seem a little pointless to release an audio clip and then admit that the engine doesn't sound quite like that.

Thanks for that Mario, I hadn't read that thread recently.

[wsrgo]

Well, the engine won a race (in a Lotus Chassis) and the BRM car got a 2nd place with Stewart and a couple of points for Spence, so while it certainly was not a groundbraking effort, there were many, many F1 things, that were much more pointless (as the engine collected 24 points and the car 15, if I count correctly, it most definitely was not pointless )

Marco, who has a soft spot for the BRM, as I drove it for years in Grand Prix Legends, and built a model kit of the P83 a few months ago

Well now, Marco, long time no see...

[Jocke1]

If you are talking literally, Luca Badoer.

Blasphemer!

It's not Luca that is pointless, it's the system.
Blame the system.

[CoopsII]

If you are talking literally, Luca Badoer.

Blasphemer!

It's not Luca that is pointless, it's the system.
Blame the system.

Absolutely. Shame on you Shadaza, and indeed all your kin, were those tears that fell in Germany for naught?

[AdrianSutil]

Badoer was in no way a pointless thing in F1. He wasn't the best on the track we all know that, but he did a reasonable job in every car he drove. Even the Forti.

Plus, his testing work for Ferrari is usually overlooked as a reason way Schumacher was so dominant in the car.

Pointless drivers? Well, have a look at the driver index on the main page and make your own mind up...



Edit: Yeah, just got the 'pointless' joke... I'll get my coat.

[Shadaza]

No no, you missed what I meant by Literally pointless.
As in he scored 0 points. The record for most fruitless attempts at points!

[roblo97]

shall i rename this the F1 Rejects Room 101?

[Phoenix]

KERS. It's supposed to be both a power boost and an energy recovery system. It's not great at doing both these things.

[rachel1990]

Podium interviews. Bad Bad Bad. And pointless.

Herman Tilke's designs (especially india, bahrain and Korea)

Red Bull saying both drivers are equal

[roblo97]

next years regs

pay drivers

[FullMetalJack]

next years regs

pay drivers

Pay drivers such as Deletraz and Lavaggi are the reason this website (and consequently this forum) exists today.

[CaptainGetz12]

I'll just throw something in here just because: I think Midland F1 was the most pointless of all of the reject and potential reject teams.

Most reject teams seem to fall under three categoreies for me: They were ambitious but the money didnt come through (Forti, Simtek), performance issues that cost them dearly (Life, Coloni), or were just run by absolute idiots (Andrea Moda, Onyx).

Midland F1 seemed like it was just a financial investment that its owners got bored with pretty quickly, considering the team became Spyker before the 2006 season even ended. Yes you can argue that it was mismanagement like Andrea and Onyx were, but those teams didnt seem to be in it for just the money, while MF1 was clearly just a millionaire's plaything.

On top off that, the 2006 season took about an extra year of preparation if the 2005 preview pages say that the team gave up on 2005 from the start while they still drove under Jordan. Despite an extra season of preparation MF1 made no progress and was easily upstaged by the last-minute, underfunded ragtag team that was Super Aguri in 2006.

It also was perhaps the worst sucessor team in the history of F1 and a disgrace to a well-repected name. Other teams that succeded at least held the team on for at least a bit with some dignity (Stewart >> Jaguar, Ligier >> Prost, Tyrrell >> BAR >>> Honda). MF1 had a very anemic season under Jordan then went nowhere when it flew under its own colors.

While other reject teams seemed to have been so-bad-its-funny mismanagement or just rotten luck, MF1 seemed poised to be a decent team with its financial backing. Instead, it went absolutely nowhere and was folded before its supposed "go-time" season even ended.In my opinion, the total lack of spirit in the team and the clear fact that it was just a 5-minute playtoy for someone who doesnt deserve that kind of money puts Midland F1 as the most pointless F1 team of all the rejects and potential reject, and perhaps in the history of the sport.

[good_Ralf]

I'll just throw something in here just because: I think Midland F1 was the most pointless of all of the reject and potential reject teams.

Most reject teams seem to fall under three categoreies for me: They were ambitious but the money didnt come through (Forti, Simtek), performance issues that cost them dearly (Life, Coloni), or were just run by absolute idiots (Andrea Moda, Onyx).

Midland F1 seemed like it was just a financial investment that its owners got bored with pretty quickly, considering the team became Spyker before the 2006 season even ended. Yes you can argue that it was mismanagement like Andrea and Onyx were, but those teams didnt seem to be in it for just the money, while MF1 was clearly just a millionaire's plaything.

On top off that, the 2006 season took about an extra year of preparation if the 2005 preview pages say that the team gave up on 2005 from the start while they still drove under Jordan. Despite an extra season of preparation MF1 made no progress and was easily upstaged by the last-minute, underfunded ragtag team that was Super Aguri in 2006.

It also was perhaps the worst sucessor team in the history of F1 and a disgrace to a well-repected name. Other teams that succeded at least held the team on for at least a bit with some dignity (Stewart >> Jaguar, Ligier >> Prost, Tyrrell >> BAR >>> Honda). MF1 had a very anemic season under Jordan then went nowhere when it flew under its own colors.

While other reject teams seemed to have been so-bad-its-funny mismanagement or just rotten luck, MF1 seemed poised to be a decent team with its financial backing. Instead, it went absolutely nowhere and was folded before its supposed "go-time" season even ended.In my opinion, the total lack of spirit in the team and the clear fact that it was just a 5-minute playtoy for someone who doesnt deserve that kind of money puts Midland F1 as the most pointless F1 team of all the rejects and potential reject, and perhaps in the history of the sport.

Deserves a reject profile, then. I loved how Jamie and Enoch said how their livery was "like a poor man's McLaren" in the season review.

[Alextrax52]

Podium interviews. Bad Bad Bad. And pointless.

Herman Tilke's designs (especially india, bahrain and Korea)

Red Bull saying both drivers are equal

The whole Podium procedure is a farce: The guys in 2nd and 3rd barely have anywhere to stand. The music when the trophies are being handed out sucks and I agree the Podium Interviews are awful.

I don't think it' Tilke's fault that India and Korea are boring because it's usually the time where Red Bull are miles clear of everybody and Vettel's fighting off accusations that he's only winning because he has the best car which are getting tiring with every passing season and are coming from the British Press which are just jealous that the German's are taking over.

[Ataxia]

It would be nice if some members actually provided legitimate reasoning behind their choices, rather than saying "Oh, thing A. That's just sh*t."

I'll just throw something in here just because: I think Midland F1 was the most pointless of all of the reject and potential reject teams.

Most reject teams seem to fall under three categoreies for me: They were ambitious but the money didnt come through (Forti, Simtek), performance issues that cost them dearly (Life, Coloni), or were just run by absolute idiots (Andrea Moda, Onyx).

Midland F1 seemed like it was just a financial investment that its owners got bored with pretty quickly, considering the team became Spyker before the 2006 season even ended. Yes you can argue that it was mismanagement like Andrea and Onyx were, but those teams didnt seem to be in it for just the money, while MF1 was clearly just a millionaire's plaything.

On top off that, the 2006 season took about an extra year of preparation if the 2005 preview pages say that the team gave up on 2005 from the start while they still drove under Jordan. Despite an extra season of preparation MF1 made no progress and was easily upstaged by the last-minute, underfunded ragtag team that was Super Aguri in 2006.

It also was perhaps the worst sucessor team in the history of F1 and a disgrace to a well-repected name. Other teams that succeded at least held the team on for at least a bit with some dignity (Stewart >> Jaguar, Ligier >> Prost, Tyrrell >> BAR >>> Honda). MF1 had a very anemic season under Jordan then went nowhere when it flew under its own colors.

While other reject teams seemed to have been so-bad-its-funny mismanagement or just rotten luck, MF1 seemed poised to be a decent team with its financial backing. Instead, it went absolutely nowhere and was folded before its supposed "go-time" season even ended.In my opinion, the total lack of spirit in the team and the clear fact that it was just a 5-minute playtoy for someone who doesnt deserve that kind of money puts Midland F1 as the most pointless F1 team of all the rejects and potential reject, and perhaps in the history of the sport.

I think this is the most comprehensive review of Midland there's ever been! I seem to remember there being a big thing made about them in 2004, where they were billed as the future of F1 with their Russian backing and their Dallara chassis. That never materialised; they ended up buying out Jordan thanks to Bernie's guidance, and then just threw sub-par drivers and almost refused to invest. It was patently obvious Alex Shnaider had zero interest in the team, as he pretty much just gave Colin "The Dentist" Kolles the reins and left them to their own devices.

I liked the livery though.

[Salamander]

I don't think it' Tilke's fault that India and Korea are boring because it's usually the time where Red Bull are miles clear of everybody and Vettel's fighting off accusations that he's only winning because he has the best car which are getting tiring with every passing season and are coming from the British Press which are just jealous that the German's are taking over.

I disagree with the notion that Korea and India are boring simply because it's Red Bull winning. 2011 was a Vettel walkover as I'm sure you'll agree, but most people - at least, those here - agreed that the racing that year was much better than previous years in general. Korea and India are just bad layouts for F1 - though as Cynon has mentioned off-forum, the layout for India would be a lot better if it was run backwards.

[girry]

Pay drivers ARE NOT pointless; they're essential to F1, some would say sadly, but that's the way F1 is.

Especially weird that the criticism is coming from roblomas, as literally everybody barring Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes are in financial difficulties, yet he still supports more or less freely developing the cars faster and better (=more and more expensive).

The money is essential to F1 and we should pretty much be thankful about there being people willing to sponsor a driver with silly amounts of backing.

Ok, it shouldn't be so etc etc......but F1 simply needs to financially sustain itself, and until serious moves about reducing the spending are made, it will remain so.

[Alextrax52]

Pay drivers ARE NOT pointless; they're essential to F1, some would say sadly, but that's the way F1 is.

Especially weird that the criticism is coming from roblomas, as literally everybody barring Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes are in financial difficulties, yet he still supports more or less freely developing the cars faster and better (=more and more expensive).

The money is essential to F1 and we should pretty much be thankful about there being people willing to sponsor a driver with silly amounts of backing.

Ok, it shouldn't be so etc etc......but F1 simply needs to financially sustain itself, and until serious moves about reducing the spending are made, it will remain so.

Pay Drivers at least throw up some good moments for us to watch. Without them we wouldn't have had Deletraz Lavaggi or Alex Yoong for example.

Which Reminds me Was Yuji Ide a pay driver or was he just there because they wanted an All Japanese line up?

[good_Ralf]

Pay Drivers at least throw up some good moments for us to watch. Without them we wouldn't have had Deletraz Lavaggi or Alex Yoong for example.

Which Reminds me Was Yuji Ide a pay driver or was he just there because they wanted an All Japanese line up?

More of the latter I think. But overall I think SA chose him because both of your reasons. Speaking of which, was Taki Inoue a pay driver?

[Ataxia]

Podium interviews. Bad Bad Bad. And pointless.

Herman Tilke's designs (especially india, bahrain and Korea)

Red Bull saying both drivers are equal

The whole Podium procedure is a farce: The guys in 2nd and 3rd barely have anywhere to stand. The music when the trophies are being handed out sucks and I agree the Podium Interviews are awful.

With all due respect, that's rubbish.

The people who flank the winner have plenty of room, for starters. Not enough to swing a cat, admittedly, but that's generally not part of the podium procedure. Plus, there's no music during the trophies, and if you're referring to what Pasta once referred to as the "champagne music", I don't think George Bizet would have ever been too worried about your comment that it "sucks", seeing as he wrote one of the most well-known operas in the world.

Don't agree on the interview front either; I think they provide a clearer view of how the driver is feeling than the dreary press conferences. The drivers have just strenuously exerted themselves for about 2 hours, are more or less fresh out of the car and have had a little swig of bubbly, so they're more likely to be a bit more candid then. Sometimes, the interviewer is a bit of a grade-A muppet on occasion, but when we get Martin or DC with the questions they tend to be more professional.

Personally, I think Dr. Helmut Marko's appearance at Grands Prix is pointless. I've made my distaste for the man and some of his comments clear in the past, but seeing as he's supposed to be the head of Red Bull's driver development program...why does he hang around with the senior team? If he was hanging around the Toro Rosso garage I'd perhaps understand, but he seems to be more part of Vettel's entourage (an already developed driver, of course) and also sticks to Christian Horner on the pit wall like a limpet, whilst retaining an incredibly surly look.

More of the latter I think. But overall I think SA chose him because both of your reasons. Speaking of which, was Taki Inoue a pay driver?

Of course he was! He was responsible for the Unimat sponsorship that appeared on the '95 Footwork.

[go_Rubens]

Pay Drivers at least throw up some good moments for us to watch. Without them we wouldn't have had Deletraz Lavaggi or Alex Yoong for example.

Which Reminds me Was Yuji Ide a pay driver or was he just there because they wanted an All Japanese line up?

More of the latter I think. But overall I think SA chose him because both of your reasons. Speaking of which, was Taki Inoue a pay driver?

I believe so.

[Alextrax52]

Podium interviews. Bad Bad Bad. And pointless.

Herman Tilke's designs (especially india, bahrain and Korea)

Red Bull saying both drivers are equal

The whole Podium procedure is a farce: The guys in 2nd and 3rd barely have anywhere to stand. The music when the trophies are being handed out sucks and I agree the Podium Interviews are awful.

With all due respect, that's rubbish.

The people who flank the winner have plenty of room, for starters. Not enough to swing a cat, admittedly, but that's generally not part of the podium procedure. Plus, there's no music during the trophies, and if you're referring to what Pasta once referred to as the "champagne music", I don't think George Bizet would have ever been too worried about your comment that it "sucks", seeing as he wrote one of the most well-known operas in the world.

Don't agree on the interview front either; I think they provide a clearer view of how the driver is feeling than the dreary press conferences. The drivers have just strenuously exerted themselves for about 2 hours, are more or less fresh out of the car and have had a little swig of bubbly, so they're more likely to be a bit more candid then. Sometimes, the interviewer is a bit of a grade-A muppet on occasion, but when we get Martin or DC with the questions they tend to be more professional.

If we still had the podiums before Britain 2012 I wouldn't be complaining about them because that's how i feel they should always look and they were perfect. The champagne Music where the drivers spray the bubbly is absolutely fine that's not the music i hate so i don't know why you're saying i don't like that music. I can honestly hear some kind of tune being played when the trophies are being given out even in the support races. I just don't know what it is.

[mario]

Well, the engine won a race (in a Lotus Chassis) and the BRM car got a 2nd place with Stewart and a couple of points for Spence, so while it certainly was not a groundbraking effort, there were many, many F1 things, that were much more pointless (as the engine collected 24 points and the car 15, if I count correctly, it most definitely was not pointless )

Marco, who has a soft spot for the BRM, as I drove it for years in Grand Prix Legends, and built a model kit of the P83 a few months ago

It was one of those things where the concept might have made sense (since it drew on some components that had been designed for the very competitive V8 engine BRM had developed for the 1.5L formula), but the execution left a lot to be desired. It does make you wonder whether BRM might have been better off if they had opted for their V12 instead - McLaren used the V12 in 1966 to moderately good effect in the M5A, and both Ferrari and (albeit a bit later) Matra adapted their V12's from sportscar engines, so it was technically possible to do so.

[good_Ralf]

I can honestly hear some kind of tune being played when the trophies are being given out even in the support races. I just don't know what it is.

I hear it too and I would also that to the list of pointless F1 things. George Bizet has been traditional for much longer and they should only play that for the podium.

[Dj_bereta]

-107% rule.
-Blue flags.
-Penalty points system.
-F1 website.

[go_Rubens]

-107% rule.

Indeed. The FIA only brought it back, to use it twice on HRT, and let them and others race when they didn't make it. Which is why it is pointless. Or is it the FIA?

I think the new points system is pointless.

[roblo97]

Here is another pointless thing IMO, big budgets.
I think teams should get £40,000,000 and teams like Ferrari and redbull and Mercedes should have tighter rules than the likes of caterham and Marussia

[watka]

Can anyone explain to me what grooved tyres achieved?

[roblo97]

Can anyone explain to me what grooved tyres achieved?

Well they would have made the dominant Ferrari f2004 3 seconds a lap faster than it was so I assume it was to slow the cars down

[Salamander]

Can anyone explain to me what grooved tyres achieved?

Piss all. They were supposed to cut down on the massive amounts of grip and make the races more interesting. Instead it shifted the focus more exclusively on aerodynamics, which just exacerbated the problem.

At least, that's what I recall as the reasoning behind it.

[watka]

Can anyone explain to me what grooved tyres achieved?

Piss all. They were supposed to cut down on the massive amounts of grip and make the races more interesting. Instead it shifted the focus more exclusively on aerodynamics, which just exacerbated the problem.

At least, that's what I recall as the reasoning behind it.

Yes, that rings a bell. I remember someone nominating grooved tyres as reject of the decade (00s) in a thread somewhere.

[good_Ralf]

Can anyone explain to me what grooved tyres achieved?

Piss all. They were supposed to cut down on the massive amounts of grip and make the races more interesting. Instead it shifted the focus more exclusively on aerodynamics, which just exacerbated the problem.

At least, that's what I recall as the reasoning behind it.

I think most regulations have gone the same way. They try to make races more exciting, but in doing so it produces problems which go the opposite way.

The 2004 one-engine-per-race rule was meant to muddle up grids a bit, but the manufacturers responded by simply making the engines almost bulletproof, contributing to the super-reliability that still exists today.

In 2005, the front aerodynamic changes made cars even more dependent on aero grip, meaning that overtaking remained difficult. The ban on tyre changes were also not effective, as drivers were not really challenged by the loss of grip towards the end of the race.

In don't think the 2009 rule changes worked that well either. Also consider the effects of banning refuelling, the Pirelli tyres etc.

With not much working to improve, the FIA have gone for rather artificial methods of overtaking, namely KERS and DRS.

[watka]

Can anyone explain to me what grooved tyres achieved?

Piss all. They were supposed to cut down on the massive amounts of grip and make the races more interesting. Instead it shifted the focus more exclusively on aerodynamics, which just exacerbated the problem.

At least, that's what I recall as the reasoning behind it.

In 2005, the front aerodynamic changes made cars even more dependent on aero grip, meaning that overtaking remained difficult. The ban on tyre changes were also not effective, as drivers were not really challenged by the loss of grip towards the end of the race.

Kimi Raikkonen would beg to differ.

[RonDenisDeletraz]

Toyota. That is all

[Onxy Wrecked]

Onyx, or more particularly what happened after Moneytron left and Monteverdi took over. As in Stefan Johansson took an Onyx ORE-1 to a third place in Portugal and within a year and a half the team was gone.