Submitted article: Zakspeed Killer - The Yamaha OX88 Engine

[eytl]

Hi everyone,

The new content keeps on coming! And it's the first submitted article we've posted in over 6 years!

Our resident forum brains trust "mario" wrote a superb article on the tale of woe that was the Zakspeed Yamaha collaboration in 1989. This is the story of how Yamaha's ambition exceeded its ability, and how it led to the demise of Erich Zakowski's proud little team.

http://www.f1rejects.com/centrale/submitted/zakspeedyamaha/index.html

Hopefully this article is the precursor to, at some stage in the future, (a) an article on Yamaha's later adventures with Brabham, Jordan, Tyrrell and Arrows, or (b) a full Zakspeed team profile, or (c) both!

And if anyone else out there would like to write an article for the site, let "mario" inspire you. Just let me know what your idea is, and go and research and write!

Cheers,
Enoch

[Ataxia]

Awesome work, mario! Incredibly informative and interesting, so thank you.

[girry]

Great work, never was much informed about the ending of Zakspeed team so it was a very interesting read.

[roblo97]

Thank you very much for a really informing read mario!

[Alextrax52]

Great read mario. Opened my eyes to Zakspeed's non turbo struggles

[midgrid]

Great read; thanks for writing and posting! Always fantastic to see new content on this site.

[mario]

Thank you all very much for your kind comments and also to Enoch for uploading the article - I do hope to, at some point, expand it into a fuller look at Yamaha's time in F1, but I must admit that longer article has been on ice for a while.

As Enoch says, I do hope that my efforts do at least inspire others to submit articles too - there are a number of talented posters here on the forum who I know have considered the idea, and I would strongly encourage them to try their hand as well.

[Paul Hayes]

An excellent piece, very well written and researched.

Well done Mario - more like this, please!

[AndreaModa]

Yeah, I can only add my praise to that already given out - cracking work Mario that was a superb article with real technical insight. Worthy of any magazine, no doubt about that!

[Aerospeed]

Very informative as always Mario! A well written article all around.

This could potentially open up more people submitting articles for the website... this can only be a good thing.

[dinizintheoven]

See, this is why I never wrote that article I was planning on the continuing pointlessness of Caterham and Marussia (and, I suppose, why HRT also never made it off the ground). I couldn't have done it that accurately.

Thank you Mario! But our princess is in... this castle, actually, and she's waiting to see you.

[pher38]

A big thanks for Mario for writing the article, which clearly demonstrates plenty of research and an incredibly detailed technical insight into not just the 1989 Yamaha engine, but other engines from 1989 as well. I have always wondered what happened to Zakspeed in 1989 given the fact that they were a respectable team with years in Formula 1 under their belt before 1989 and a works engine deal for that year.

I always enjoy reading about the events during the season race by race in other similar articles too so you could argue that the article is a bit bare in this area, but still plenty of new information is provided.

[eytl]

A big thanks for Mario for writing the article, which clearly demonstrates plenty of research and an incredibly detailed technical insight into not just the 1989 Yamaha engine, but other engines from 1989 as well. I have always wondered what happened to Zakspeed in 1989 given the fact that they were a respectable team with years in Formula 1 under their belt before 1989 and a works engine deal for that year.

I always enjoy reading about the events during the season race by race in other similar articles too so you could argue that the article is a bit bare in this area, but still plenty of new information is provided.

I should admit that the original article had a little bit more race-to-race results detail which I edited out so that the focus of the article would be on the engine. I was thinking that Zakspeed's results during the 1989 season would eventually be covered in their team profile (which due to this article will now probably happen sooner rather than later), and the two articles will complement each other nicely, especially since technical details are not my strong suit.

[pher38]

I was thinking that Zakspeed's results during the 1989 season would eventually be covered in their team profile (which due to this article will now probably happen sooner rather than later)

A teaser of things to come then!

[FullMetalJack]

Didn't know Minardi were after Yamahas too. I wonder how that would have worked out for them.

[watka]

Well done Mario, very well written. Thanks!

[TomPryce]

Thanks to you, Mario I am going to write an article of my own! No spoilers, will be done when done

[Yannick]

Thank you Mario for your valuable contribution to the F1 Rejects website (over the years), not limited to, but including your recent article about the demise of Zakspeed as an F1 team. You have always been one of the most well-informed people on this board as well. Kudos for all that!

[mario]

Didn't know Minardi were after Yamahas too. I wonder how that would have worked out for them.

That was courtesy of a article kindly provided by the poster known as 'bigears' (who sadly has been quite quiet recently - I do miss reading the old articles that he had collated for this site). I can't imagine that Minardi would have done that well if they had run a Yamaha engine due to the reliability issues - they'd probably have been better off with the DFR that they were using at the time.

Thanks to you, Mario I am going to write an article of my own! No spoilers, will be done when done

I'm glad to hear that my efforts have spurred you on to write your own article - may I wish you the best of luck and I look forward to reading it soon.

[Wallio]

Very well done Mario, as a huge fan of engines, I thoroughly enjoyed this. I've wanted to write a piece on reject engines myself: The BRM H16, Life W12, Zakspeed's in-house turbo, Izuzu's failed F1 bid, etc, but I doubt I could do it as well as this.....

[mario]

Very well done Mario, as a huge fan of engines, I thoroughly enjoyed this. I've wanted to write a piece on reject engines myself: The BRM H16, Life W12, Zakspeed's in-house turbo, Izuzu's failed F1 bid, etc, but I doubt I could do it as well as this.....

You say that, but from your posts on the site I am sure that you would be more than capable of doing so. You're right that some of those engines, such as the H16 or the Zakspeed inline four cylinder are quite interesting - you could also add the BRM V16 to that list too, which was another example of an engine that promised so much but was hopelessly overambitious for such a small and inexperienced team.

Speaking of which, I've seen some debate over whether the Zakspeed inline four cylinder engine was a modified version of the Ford BDA series engine, which was being used in the Group 5 version of the Ford Capri in the early 1980's, or was a similar but separate design that drew on the experience Zakspeed had gained whilst working on the BDA series engine for Ford. If you were able to shed more light on that development process, I certainly would be quite interested to read about that.

[roblo97]

Very well done Mario, as a huge fan of engines, I thoroughly enjoyed this. I've wanted to write a piece on reject engines myself: The BRM H16, Life W12, Zakspeed's in-house turbo, Izuzu's failed F1 bid, etc, but I doubt I could do it as well as this.....

Zakspeeds F1 turbo engone was rather interesting since it was based on a Ford BD or BDA block and the engine had much sucess in Zakspeed's group 5 Capri. In fact Fords first F1 turbo engne was based on that engine but it was highly unreliable so that is why Ford developed the GB V6 twin turbo engine which in 1987 was capible of 1000hp at 4Bar boost pressure and 600 miles between rebuilds was possible as well. to put this into perspective, the GB was pumping out 750hp in race trim in mid 1985.

Very well done Mario, as a huge fan of engines, I thoroughly enjoyed this. I've wanted to write a piece on reject engines myself: The BRM H16, Life W12, Zakspeed's in-house turbo, Izuzu's failed F1 bid, etc, but I doubt I could do it as well as this.....

You say that, but from your posts on the site I am sure that you would be more than capable of doing so. You're right that some of those engines, such as the H16 or the Zakspeed inline four cylinder are quite interesting - you could also add the BRM V16 to that list too, which was another example of an engine that promised so much but was hopelessly overambitious for such a small and inexperienced team.

Speaking of which, I've seen some debate over whether the Zakspeed inline four cylinder engine was a modified version of the Ford BDA series engine, which was being used in the Group 5 version of the Ford Capri in the early 1980's, or was a similar but separate design that drew on the experience Zakspeed had gained whilst working on the BDA series engine for Ford. If you were able to shed more light on that development process, I certainly would be quite interested to read about that.

Fast Ford Magazine did an article on the history of the BD series of engines in the Summer 2013 issue which I have at home although it is able to download from Apple Newsstand and Vimeo on Android.

EDIT: With regards to reject engines, Honda X32 anyone?

[Wallio]

Very well done Mario, as a huge fan of engines, I thoroughly enjoyed this. I've wanted to write a piece on reject engines myself: The BRM H16, Life W12, Zakspeed's in-house turbo, Izuzu's failed F1 bid, etc, but I doubt I could do it as well as this.....

You say that, but from your posts on the site I am sure that you would be more than capable of doing so. You're right that some of those engines, such as the H16 or the Zakspeed inline four cylinder are quite interesting - you could also add the BRM V16 to that list too, which was another example of an engine that promised so much but was hopelessly overambitious for such a small and inexperienced team.

Speaking of which, I've seen some debate over whether the Zakspeed inline four cylinder engine was a modified version of the Ford BDA series engine, which was being used in the Group 5 version of the Ford Capri in the early 1980's, or was a similar but separate design that drew on the experience Zakspeed had gained whilst working on the BDA series engine for Ford. If you were able to shed more light on that development process, I certainly would be quite interested to read about that.

Thank you for the vote of confidence sir. I may just start researching it afterall. Couldn't hurt anyone right?

As for the Zakspeed, the way I understood it, and Rob's post above seems to confirm it, was that the engine was a Zakspeed design, just one they came up with after years of running the BDA Fords. An engineer at Bosch once said "you can't forget something you learned" when talking about doing "independent" TCS systems for Audi and Peugeot at Le Mans. Meaning, once I see how my opponent does things you naturally gravitate that way. The Pre-DFV I4 Cosworth built heavily influenced and was heavily influenced by, the BMW F2 motors. As you yourself note in the Yamaha article, Ferrari ran 5-valve heads in the 90s as well.

I've also heard that the Zakspeed was just a BDA block with a new head on it, which also could be, as I believe Yamaha's later motors were basically Judd's with 5-valve heads.

[eytl]

you could also add the BRM V16 to that list

Teaser time ... I'm also working on a profile that has something to do with the BRM V16 disaster in the early 1950s so if any of you have good info on that, email me.

[roblo97]

Very well done Mario, as a huge fan of engines, I thoroughly enjoyed this. I've wanted to write a piece on reject engines myself: The BRM H16, Life W12, Zakspeed's in-house turbo, Izuzu's failed F1 bid, etc, but I doubt I could do it as well as this.....

You say that, but from your posts on the site I am sure that you would be more than capable of doing so. You're right that some of those engines, such as the H16 or the Zakspeed inline four cylinder are quite interesting - you could also add the BRM V16 to that list too, which was another example of an engine that promised so much but was hopelessly overambitious for such a small and inexperienced team.

Speaking of which, I've seen some debate over whether the Zakspeed inline four cylinder engine was a modified version of the Ford BDA series engine, which was being used in the Group 5 version of the Ford Capri in the early 1980's, or was a similar but separate design that drew on the experience Zakspeed had gained whilst working on the BDA series engine for Ford. If you were able to shed more light on that development process, I certainly would be quite interested to read about that.

Thank you for the vote of confidence sir. I may just start researching it afterall. Couldn't hurt anyone right?

As for the Zakspeed, the way I understood it, and Rob's post above seems to confirm it, was that the engine was a Zakspeed design, just one they came up with after years of running the BDA Fords. An engineer at Bosch once said "you can't forget something you learned" when talking about doing "independent" TCS systems for Audi and Peugeot at Le Mans. Meaning, once I see how my opponent does things you naturally gravitate that way. The Pre-DFV I4 Cosworth built heavily influenced and was heavily influenced by, the BMW F2 motors. As you yourself note in the Yamaha article, Ferrari ran 5-valve heads in the 90s as well.

I've also heard that the Zakspeed was just a BDA block with a new head on it, which also could be, as I believe Yamaha's later motors were basically Judd's with 5-valve heads.

Did you want me to pm you and Mario the article I mentioned regarding the history of the BDA. I would have to type it up but since I have a lot of spare time right now, I would be able to get it typed and mailed in the next week along with an article on the GB V6 which could make for an interesting comparison between the 2 engines.

[Wallio]

If you don't mind. Its definitely something I'd enjoy.

[mario]

Did you want me to pm you and Mario the article I mentioned regarding the history of the BDA. I would have to type it up but since I have a lot of spare time right now, I would be able to get it typed and mailed in the next week along with an article on the GB V6 which could make for an interesting comparison between the 2 engines.

I'd be interested in reading that article and, I am sure, so would quite a few other posters - if I get the time (something that I'm afraid that I can't promise), I'd be happy to proof read your article if you then wanted to send it on to Enoch.

Speaking of which, thanks to you and Wallio for clearing up the situation with regards to the Zakspeed inline four cylinder engine - it is one of those things where it wasn't quite clear what was going on with development of that engine since, as Wallio comments, there would always inevitably be some unintentional transfer of knowledge arising from the fact that you would work from what you know.
Also, since you ask, with regards to the later Yamaha engines, it is true that the first generation of engines that were built under the partnership between Judd and Yamaha were basically Judd engines with a modified five valve head. To a certain extent, that also carried over to the second generation of engines (when the rules were changed to 3.0 litres) as the later engines were more or less a scaled down version of the earlier 3.5 litre engines - it wasn't really until the third generation of engines (the OX11 series) that they really developed something unique (but that is another story).

[eytl]

it wasn't really until the third generation of engines (the OX11 series) that they really developed something unique (but that is another story).

Another story which, as you know, I'd love for you to write! It would be cool to have a complete series on the Yamaha engines ...

[Shizuka]

Superb job, Mario, thank you!

[tommykl]

you could also add the BRM V16 to that list

Teaser time ... I'm also working on a profile that has something to do with the BRM V16 disaster in the early 1950s so if any of you have good info on that, email me.

And therefore, guessing time...

Are we talking Peter Walker here?

[roblo97]

I have finished typing about the BRM H16, Honda X32 and the Ford BD (even though said article focused mostly on rallying).
I have even done a comparison table on Excel so all I have to do is type up the comparison on the Zakspeed and Ford GBA turbo engines.

[TomPryce]

I've just completed my article! I hope Enoch likes it...

[CarlosFerreira]

Really nice and tidy little article, mario. I imagine a load of work went into this. Thank you!