2014 British GP RotR

SgtPepper · Post by **SgtPepper** » 06 Jul 2014, 21:41

Salamander wrote:
SgtPepper wrote:Vettel;... - hopeless wheel to wheel

Yes, because taking 13 laps to pass Fernando Alonso means that you are hopeless in wheel-to-wheel combat. Because we all know that Alonso is an absolute breeze to overtake. Not one to fight for his position at all, that Fernando Alonso. Well known for his easy-going nature and laid back attitude on the track, is Alonso.

Because it's not like Vettel hasn't had any trouble with backmarkers this season at all, is it? Or that Alonso was in a considerably slower car, on slower tyres and still drove round the outside anyway.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 06 Jul 2014, 21:50

Salamander wrote:
SgtPepper wrote:Vettel;... - hopeless wheel to wheel

Yes, because taking 13 laps to pass Fernando Alonso means that you are hopeless in wheel-to-wheel combat. Because we all know that Alonso is an absolute breeze to overtake. Not one to fight for his position at all, that Fernando Alonso. Well known for his easy-going nature and laid back attitude on the track, is Alonso.

And the only reason Ricky beat Seb was because of different strategy. On sheer pace Seb biltzed him today.

But you must remember Salamander that if given the chance Pepper would nominate Seb for ROTR if he breathed loudly

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 06 Jul 2014, 21:51

SgtPepper wrote:
Salamander wrote:
SgtPepper wrote:Vettel;... - hopeless wheel to wheel

Yes, because taking 13 laps to pass Fernando Alonso means that you are hopeless in wheel-to-wheel combat. Because we all know that Alonso is an absolute breeze to overtake. Not one to fight for his position at all, that Fernando Alonso. Well known for his easy-going nature and laid back attitude on the track, is Alonso.

Because it's not like Vettel hasn't had any trouble with backmarkers this season at all, is it? Or that Alonso was in a considerably slower car, on slower tyres and still drove round the outside anyway.

Yes, because it's Fernando bathplugging Alonso. If Alonso doesn't want you to overtake him, you are going to have a very bad time. And the Ferrari wasn't that bad - or did you miss the part earlier in the race where Alonso scythed through the field like Bottas did?

Get some goddamn perspective man - Alonso is the hardest person to overtake in Formula 1, maybe even the world. He can very much make a less competitive car on older tyres on a track where overtaking isn't a total freebie hold off a faster one.

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:But you must remember Salamander that if given the chance Pepper would nominate Sub for ROTR if he breathed loudly

I'm quite aware. I'm just completely dumbfounded by the claim that being unable to overtake Fernando bathplugging Alonso in less than 13 laps makes you hopeless at overtaking.

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 06 Jul 2014, 21:53

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
Salamander wrote:
SgtPepper wrote:Vettel;... - hopeless wheel to wheel

Yes, because taking 13 laps to pass Fernando Alonso means that you are hopeless in wheel-to-wheel combat. Because we all know that Alonso is an absolute breeze to overtake. Not one to fight for his position at all, that Fernando Alonso. Well known for his easy-going nature and laid back attitude on the track, is Alonso.

And the only reason Ricky beat Seb was because of different strategy. On sheer pace Seb biltzed him today.

But you must remember Salamander that if given the chance Pepper would nominate Seb for ROTR if he breathed loudly

Seb proved that he is an awesome racer. He also qualified 2nd.

SgtPepper · Post by **SgtPepper** » 06 Jul 2014, 21:58

Salamander wrote:Yes, because it's Fernando bathplugging Alonso. If Alonso doesn't want you to overtake him, you are going to have a very bad time. And the Ferrari wasn't that bad - or did you miss the part earlier in the race where Alonso scythed through the field like Bottas did?

Get some goddamn perspective man - Alonso is the hardest person to overtake in Formula 1, maybe even the world. He can very much make a less competitive car on older tyres on a track where overtaking isn't a total freebie hold off a faster one.

Ok ok I concede your point about Alonso, it doesn't prove anything in regards to wheel to wheel racing. However I do maintain my strong dislike of anybody bitching on radios and tend to nominate them.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 06 Jul 2014, 22:09

It's hard to look past Raikkonen. As repetitive and cliched a choice it may be, there's simply no forgiving that kind of error from a man who made his debut 13 years ago, and is a former world champion. It's inexcusable.

There's no larger gap between team-mates in Formula One right now than Alonso and Raikkonen. Even Maldonado has recovered - he was running ahead of his team-mate before the second choice for ROTR Gutierrez ploughed into him. Most drivers in F1 history have been fired for less. If this were a rookie season for a driver it'd be questionable if he'd even be retained. It's like he's stuck at the dauntingly sharp end of the learning curve, unable to progress. Bad starts to the season happen, this can be normal from time to time, even for the best drivers - but to be 9 races into the season and still completely lost in terms of performance is a more serious problem.

Any number of theories can be postulated as for why Kimi has suddenly hit this massive decline in form, but I'm not really sure if finding the root cause is going to affect the conclusion anymore at this point - no driver should consistently be so far away from their team-mate's performances week in week out. Especially when you're earning a World Champion's wages for doing it. It's sorry to see a driver who was once known for having the most raw pace in the sport in the early/mid 2000s bow out like this, but time catches up on all of us eventually.

SgtPepper wrote:Ok ok I concede your point about Alonso, it doesn't prove anything in regards to wheel to wheel racing. However I do maintain my strong dislike of anybody bitching on radios and tend to nominate them.

ROTR becomes a bit pointless when you have to nominate almost the entire field. Even Kimi "Leave Me Alone" Raikkonen has at it on the intercom most races, e.g."I need more power then!"

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 06 Jul 2014, 23:09

James1978 wrote:Gutierrez for his revenge job from Bahrain.

I think it was a payback, but he failed.

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 06 Jul 2014, 23:36

I'm going to have nominate Gutierrez for his little bit of ram raiding.

Meatwad · Post by **Meatwad** » 07 Jul 2014, 00:29

I think it would be slightly too harsh if Räikkönen got the ROTR. His only mistake was to run wide, the rest was just bad luck. It reminded me of Petrov's similarly unlucky incident in Malaysia 2011.

My nomination is Esteban Gutiérrez, the number one seat waster in F1. I think Sauber should replace either driver with Van der Garde, then they would at least have a small chance of points in some race. Maldonado could have done something to avoid the crash, as well. I'm not even surprised anymore when I see these clowns at it. :roll:

Dishonorable mention to Vettel haters. You wouldn't believe how many people, especially on "that other forum", have called Vettel a whiner, crybaby etc. while ignoring that Alonso was just as bad in that respect.

Normal32 · Post by **Normal32** » 07 Jul 2014, 00:39

Meatwad wrote:I think it would be slightly too harsh if Räikkönen got the ROTR. His only mistake was to run wide, the rest was just bad luck. It reminded me of Petrov's similarly unlucky incident in Malaysia 2011.

Same here.

Anyway,ROTR to Sauber,not only dreadful but is also getting harder to not avoid being overtaken by Caterham in the WCC.

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 07 Jul 2014, 05:12

1. Raikkonen: I think Ferrari made a mistake by choosing him.

2. Gutierrez: Seemed to be looking for any way to take himself out of the race.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 07 Jul 2014, 05:43

I can only nominate Gutierrez. Nominating Raikkonen when you have no idea what sort of race he could've gone on to have sounds dumb to me.

Post by **mario** » 07 Jul 2014, 06:08

As a late aside, one could mention the trophies that the drivers were given on the podium - Hamilton was overheard telling Bottas that apparently the base fell off the winners trophy when he picked it up...

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 07 Jul 2014, 06:36

mario wrote:Hamilton was overheard telling Bottas that apparently the base fell off the winners trophy when he picked it up...

No, what he actually said was "Wicked! I is gonna drop da bass now. Innit."

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 07 Jul 2014, 06:39

I won't nominate Räikkönen, because since the introduction of paved runoff areas, this has become a very usual mistake drivers make, and Räikkönen was just unlucky to hit that bump and lose control over his car.

I think Gutierrez deserves RotR for his attempted revenge for Bahrain. That could have easily resulted in a bigger accident for Maldonado. And then he blames Maldonado for it.

AustralianStig · Post by **AustralianStig** » 07 Jul 2014, 06:57

Found it hard to come up with a nomination:

Force India were rubbish but were so anonymous that they don't deserve rejectdom
Raikkonen could have killed himself but that's not rejectful
Sauber were Sauber

But I've finally worked out who deserves ROTR this week: Drivers blaming other drivers

While it's entertaining to listen to...seriously guys, just race and sort it out in the paddock afterwards.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 07 Jul 2014, 07:40

Looking at this RotR-nominations thread and I start to think have I strayed to Autosport by accident. a sad state of affairs of a forum that used to be good.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 07 Jul 2014, 07:45

Apart from the obvious targets, going to nominate Felipe Massa's luck. Once again more potential points taken away through no fault of his own, the gap to Bottas in the points is completely unrepresentative of their relative pace this year.

Meatwad wrote:I think it would be slightly too harsh if Räikkönen got the ROTR. His only mistake was to run wide, the rest was just bad luck. It reminded me of Petrov's similarly unlucky incident in Malaysia 2011.

Not saying he should necessarily get RotR, but trying to re-enter the track at what looked like full speed over a grass verge was a massive mistake in my opinion.

Post by **Londoner** » 07 Jul 2014, 07:55

DonTirri wrote:Looking at this RotR-nominations thread and I start to think have I strayed to Autosport by accident. a sad state of affairs of a forum that used to be good.

This can't be Autosport mate, the people there hate all the backmarkers and Rejects.

But seriously, Raikkonen dun goofed on the first lap. If it wasn't for Guti being a fool, he'd be the clear cut favourite for ROTR.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 07 Jul 2014, 07:58

I'm going to slightly nominate Alonso for what I saw as trying to play mind games with Vettel after the race. "Look, our car was horrible, we had a lot of problems, we were thinking about retiring the car, he would have got past me at some point anyway..." I might be reading a bit too much into it, but it sounded like he was trying to imply that he was in a hopeless position to begin with, and that Vettel took way too long to get pass, so his overtaking wasn't that special. It would have been nicer if he had said that they had a great fight instead (which is what I was expecting).

And yes, I know that slightly nominating someone is like being slightly pregnant, but that's not going to stop me :mrgreen:

There's not a chance in hell that he will get ROTR anyway.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 07 Jul 2014, 08:03

Another nomination would be Team Radio

Without that, we could have enjoyed the Alonso/Vettel battle for what it was without petulant whining.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 07 Jul 2014, 08:06

I'm going to go for Ferrari bar Alonso.

They simply dropped the ball from Friday to Saturday: from FP2 to Q1 they fell back hard. Both drivers had trouble in the rain, Kimi spun and even Fernando had his few seconds. The result was a shocking double Q1 elimination.
The race went for good for Fernando, who showed his brilliance in yet another decent race, although he also was being heard on the radio quite a lot. He keeps pushing another mediocre Ferrari (which isn't even the third best car right now... Williams are better, plus sometimes Force India has the better of them) to high places, while his efforts might not be enough to secure 3rd in the WCC.
Kimi however had an accident coming back to the track, which not only gave him a slight injury, the track some damage due to the armco leading us to an hour of waiting, but this also knocked Massa out, who did show he was wary of something happening, just not being able to see because of Kobayashi, who somehow came through that madness.

Ferrari had bad luck, but if Bottas keeps up this performance, they will take 3rd place. If Kimi can't start scoring points more regularly, Force India (if they get back to their usual form) and McLaren (if this Silverstone drive wasn't a total fluke) will also have a say. At this rate, Alonso will do a Fisichella 2000, when Fisi outscored Wurz 18 to 2...

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 07 Jul 2014, 08:08

East Londoner wrote:
DonTirri wrote:Looking at this RotR-nominations thread and I start to think have I strayed to Autosport by accident. a sad state of affairs of a forum that used to be good.

This can't be Autosport mate, the people there hate all the backmarkers and Rejects.

But seriously, Raikkonen dun goofed on the first lap. If it wasn't for Guti being a fool, he'd be the clear cut favourite for ROTR.

What has seriously soured me on these boards is the very Autosporty-fad of people letting their dislike for certain drivers cloud their judgement and dissing them given the slightest chance. And just incase i get called on it, yes I admit I used to do the same in regards of Hamilton/Alonso. But really, it's starting to get VERY old.

I get that people don't like Kimi, but nominating him for RotR, telling him to bugger off etc because he made a small mistake in the opening scuffle, with cold hard tyres, trying to make up positions after a dreadful qually... is just SAD. Same goes for the unwarranted bashing of Vettel, who for once showed he can actually race wheel to wheel. (And not like Alonso wasn't whining either >_>).

Some people on these boards should just go home or sod off to Autosport, where they belong.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 07 Jul 2014, 08:36

DonTirri wrote:I get that people don't like Kimi, but nominating him for RotR, telling him to bugger off etc because he made a small mistake in the opening scuffle, with cold hard tyres, trying to make up positions after a dreadful qually... is just SAD.

I agree Raikkonen doesnt deserve ROTR for yesterday, the size of the accident after such a small mistake seems to be clouding a few peoples perceptions. I think hes getting flak not just for yesterday but for the general malaise which appears to taking over him this season. That should be saved for ROTY later on methinks.

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 07 Jul 2014, 09:14

I've decided to change my nomination to all those who're saying f1rejects has become like autosport. People have the right to nominate whoever they choose, that doesn't automatically make them biased. SgtPepper's nomination is the one I least agree with, but it's his opinion, I think we should just argue with facts (i'll admit I found Salamader's sarcastic reply rather jarring, whilst a couple of others replied well, using facts and not resorting to sarcasm or stuff like that) instead of saying 'Vettel-bashing', 'Kimi-bashing' and then inferring that if a person has nominated someone you don't think deserves a nomination, he must be biased.

Everybody has an opinion, and a person's opinion, howsoever different from one's own, should be respected, unless it actively incites violence, hatred or separatism, which these ones weren't. Grow up, forumites!!

Post by **Ataxia** » 07 Jul 2014, 09:28

wsrgo wrote:I've decided to change my nomination to all those who're saying f1rejects has become like autosport. People have the right to nominate whoever they choose, that doesn't automatically make them biased. SgtPepper's nomination is the one I least agree with, but it's his opinion, I think we should just argue with facts (i'll admit I found Salamader's sarcastic reply rather jarring, whilst a couple of others replied well, using facts and not resorting to sarcasm or stuff like that) instead of saying 'Vettel-bashing', 'Kimi-bashing' and then inferring that if a person has nominated someone you don't think deserves a nomination, he must be biased.

Everybody has an opinion, and a person's opinion, howsoever different from one's own, should be respected, unless it actively incites violence, hatred or separatism, which these ones weren't. Grow up, forumites!!

This is coming from the guy who thought the Aus GP stewards would legitimately make a session unsafe to favour their home driver. Take my hand, I'll help you climb down from your high horse.

Anyway, I've gotta throw my voice behind Gutierrez too. Bins it in qualifying, does nothing in the race, tries to take out Maldonado.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 07 Jul 2014, 10:01

Santander - please, just stop making those trophies. They look hideous.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 07 Jul 2014, 10:14

The bickering in this thread is getting out of hand. <_< I think some people need to chill and take holidays from the forum for awhile.

Ferrim wrote:I'm going to slightly nominate Alonso for what I saw as trying to play mind games with Vettel after the race. "Look, our car was horrible, we had a lot of problems, we were thinking about retiring the car, he would have got past me at some point anyway..." I might be reading a bit too much into it, but it sounded like he was trying to imply that he was in a hopeless position to begin with, and that Vettel took way too long to get pass, so his overtaking wasn't that special. It would have been nicer if he had said that they had a great fight instead (which is what I was expecting).

Conspiracy theorists stand up?

Does sound like a thing Alonso, or any F1 driver would do. Remember, he did attempt to belittle Vettel's success by saying Red Bull was just a "fizzy drinks company"...

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 07 Jul 2014, 10:15

Ataxia wrote:
wsrgo wrote:I've decided to change my nomination to all those who're saying f1rejects has become like autosport. People have the right to nominate whoever they choose, that doesn't automatically make them biased. SgtPepper's nomination is the one I least agree with, but it's his opinion, I think we should just argue with facts (i'll admit I found Salamader's sarcastic reply rather jarring, whilst a couple of others replied well, using facts and not resorting to sarcasm or stuff like that) instead of saying 'Vettel-bashing', 'Kimi-bashing' and then inferring that if a person has nominated someone you don't think deserves a nomination, he must be biased.

Everybody has an opinion, and a person's opinion, howsoever different from one's own, should be respected, unless it actively incites violence, hatred or separatism, which these ones weren't. Grow up, forumites!!

This is coming from the guy who thought the Aus GP stewards would legitimately make a session unsafe to favour their home driver. Take my hand, I'll help you climb down from your high horse.

Everytime I have a problem with Salamander, it's Ataxia to the rescue!!!

Anyway, expected little else from you, clearly it's people like you who give the forum a bad name. Here I am, just giving a rallying call, and there comes Ataxia with a scathing reply. Is your jaw loose or something, that you can't keep quiet for long? There will be a lot of people who will disagree with me, very few will bring non-contextual things into question.

You clearly need to grow up.

noiceinmydrink · Post by **noiceinmydrink** » 07 Jul 2014, 10:23

God damn it.

Fetzie · Post by **Fetzie** » 07 Jul 2014, 11:00

I nominate Sauber, because I can't remember if they even took part in the race.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 07 Jul 2014, 11:14

wsrgo wrote:i'll admit I found Salamader's sarcastic reply rather jarring, whilst a couple of others replied well, using facts and not resorting to sarcasm or stuff like that

If you want to legitimise an argument that not being able to overtake arguably the most difficult man to overtake in all of motorsports today in less than 13 laps makes you a hopeless overtaker, then by all means, you are entitled to do so. I, on the other hand, think that this is a stance which does not deserve such respect. Having an opinion is all well and good, but if you have an ill-founded one you should not be surprised when people respond in such a way. Also, I'm not sure if you noticed, but I did use a fact there, specifically the fact that Alonso's Ferrari could not have been as bad as SgtPepper was implying due to his early charge through the field.

Anyway, on the topic of whether or not Raikkonen should be nominated for RotR, what I will say is that the size of the crash or his general performance this season didn't really factor into the nomination for me. What did was the fact that he attempted to rejoin the raging midfield battle at more or less full speed, at a point where doing such was inevitably going to cause some form of incident. He wasn't wrong to rejoin there, because the kerb ended just before then and going over it in the direction he would have, would have risked a puncture, since I think those kerbs are raised on that side. His error was trying to rejoin at racing speeds - but it was a fundamental error nonetheless, and not one you would expect from one of the most experienced drivers in Formula 1 today. As Will Buxton has pointed out, drivers conduct track walks to be aware what the track is like in these situations - obviously I don't know whether or not Kimi did this and looked at this part of the track, but the point is that if he didn't, then he should have, and if he did, then he should've known better.

What I would also like those that are defending Kimi to consider is this: If it was Pastor Maldonado who had attempted to rejoin the track there in that manner, and not Kimi Raikkonen, would you be so quick to come to his defence? Because let's be frank here - that crash could have been far worse than it was - even as it was, a tyre almost hit Max Chilton on the head.

In the end, in spite of Kimi's poor season, I don't expect him to suddenly make such a poor call of judgement, given his years of experience. For me, it outweighed Esteban Gutierrez being, well, Esteban Gutierrez, Force India just having a poor day in general, the radio whining from Alonso and Vettel, which I maintain was completely hilarious, and Rosberg's gearbox ruining the race for the lead, but closing up the championship fight in the bargain.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 07 Jul 2014, 11:16

Going for Esteban Gutierrez & Pastor Maldonado.

Guti's lunge was a little ill-advised, but not absurdly late, and the Pastor's closing of the gap was partly due to his own attempt to pass Bianchi rather than simply a childishly late attempt to close the door. Neither move was clever, and at the same time neither was truly an ROTR offence by itself. But between them it demonstrated what happens when drivers are inobservant and/or sloppy in wheel to wheel racing, and they successfully launched a Lotus into the air too. Cars going airborne = bad.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 07 Jul 2014, 11:29

Salamander wrote:
wsrgo wrote:i'll admit I found Salamader's sarcastic reply rather jarring, whilst a couple of others replied well, using facts and not resorting to sarcasm or stuff like that

What I would also like those that are defending Kimi to consider is this: If it was Pastor Maldonado who had attempted to rejoin the track there in that manner, and not Kimi Raikkonen, would you be so quick to come to his defence?

I'll throw a counterpoint: Had it been Hamilton, Rosberg, Alonso or Button having done the same thing, would there have been such a outcry of criticism? I doubt it.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 07 Jul 2014, 11:35

DonTirri wrote:
Salamander wrote:
wsrgo wrote:i'll admit I found Salamader's sarcastic reply rather jarring, whilst a couple of others replied well, using facts and not resorting to sarcasm or stuff like that

What I would also like those that are defending Kimi to consider is this: If it was Pastor Maldonado who had attempted to rejoin the track there in that manner, and not Kimi Raikkonen, would you be so quick to come to his defence?

I'll throw a counterpoint: Had it been Hamilton, Rosberg, Alonso or Button having done the same thing, would there have been such a outcry of criticism? I doubt it.

If they were being comprehensively put away by their team-mates all season too, I probably would've said "Go home (insert driver here)". No real love for any of those drivers from me.

johnston21 · Post by **johnston21** » 07 Jul 2014, 11:45

I (also) nominate the Santander British GP Podium Trophies, not the Gold one (that Lewis was looking for and eventually received).

A plastic cup with $10 of parts falling apart is not podium worthy...

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 07 Jul 2014, 11:51

Nuppiz wrote:Santander - please, just stop making those trophies. They look hideous.

Now that is reasonable - remember the Chinese GP 2004 nomination, I think that's when the trophies got the RotR!

Meatwad · Post by **Meatwad** » 07 Jul 2014, 12:28

I came up with another nomination: the stewards, or rather the rulebook. I don't understand why they had to penalize Chilton. He didn't even get an advantage from pitting, as everyone was allowed to make changes to their cars on the grid.

I still don't like the new penalties. For instance, Alonso's penalty was much more lenient than it would have been under the previous rules. As there is no limit for when you should serve the penalty, it's not that difficult to build a five second gap to the car behind if your car is fast enough. I wonder if the same penalty would be given for an actual jump start, as one could easily gain more than five seconds by doing one.

SgtPepper · Post by **SgtPepper** » 07 Jul 2014, 13:43

DonTirri wrote:
East Londoner wrote:
DonTirri wrote:Looking at this RotR-nominations thread and I start to think have I strayed to Autosport by accident. a sad state of affairs of a forum that used to be good.

This can't be Autosport mate, the people there hate all the backmarkers and Rejects.

But seriously, Raikkonen dun goofed on the first lap. If it wasn't for Guti being a fool, he'd be the clear cut favourite for ROTR.

What has seriously soured me on these boards is the very Autosporty-fad of people letting their dislike for certain drivers cloud their judgement and dissing them given the slightest chance. And just incase i get called on it, yes I admit I used to do the same in regards of Hamilton/Alonso. But really, it's starting to get VERY old.

I get that people don't like Kimi, but nominating him for RotR, telling him to bugger off etc because he made a small mistake in the opening scuffle, with cold hard tyres, trying to make up positions after a dreadful qually... is just SAD. Same goes for the unwarranted bashing of Vettel, who for once showed he can actually race wheel to wheel. (And not like Alonso wasn't whining either >_>).

Some people on these boards should just go home or sod off to Autosport, where they belong.

I'll confess I was caught up in the heat of the moment after an extremely stressful week, so I'm switching my nomination to general bitching on the radio (something Button was also guilty of). In regards to
Kimi, the mistake was understandable but he really should've known better about recovering with that degree of aggression - and that's coming from a big fan of his.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 07 Jul 2014, 13:52

Esteban Gutiérrez Gutiérrez - Other than making a rare appearance in Q2, it was a horrible weekend for him. He's just not good enough, Sauber would honestly be better off with GVDG in the car.