RIP Manor Racing (2010-2017)

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 07 Nov 2014, 20:36

But is isn't. A grid of 12 cars isn't something anyone wants. And don't tell me they'll all just expand to three cars, because who is going to foot the bill for that? You think Santander are going to cough up more cash so Ferrari can field another car? Likewise can you see the Mercedes board, seeing F1 crumble before their eyes, authorise the costs for a third car?

Once a race series only has five or six teams competing in it, regardless of how many cars they run, interest just plummets. Look at WRC, WTCC, British F3, FFord, MotoGP prior to CRT/Open class. No one wants to know, least of all sponsors and investors, and that ladies and gentleman is what will be the death of F1.

Because I think, if the costs were right, we could have a series of five or six teams with three cars each. It might actually work and provide good racing. But the willpower and the money from sponsors, partners, boards, backers, whoever, just isn't there. The product won't be good enough, and won't provide a return on investment that justifies the spend. It's happening already, and will only get worse.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 07 Nov 2014, 20:39

Force the teams to run three cars. Only allow two cars to score WCC points. Make them incur all of the costs and receive no benefit, and watch them pounce on the idea of cost-cutting.

The FIA has tried the carrot approach for too long. Now it's time for the stick.

f1andrea · Post by **f1andrea** » 07 Nov 2014, 21:00

Very, very sad for Marussia. I suggest now there aren't possibilities to see Manor in F1 in 2015. I'm also a bit surprised after the Ted Kravitz rumors that says Marussia would race in Abu Dhabi a few days ago. A very bad end for this team, very unlucky in the last month

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 07 Nov 2014, 21:25

EJ seems to think that the ownership of the entry was transferred to Manor, the parent company, and Marussia deliberately jettisoned to pave the way for the team to enter in 2015 as Manor (or someone else, if they can find a backer).

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 07 Nov 2014, 21:30

Captain Hammer wrote:EJ seems to think that the ownership of the entry was transferred to Manor, the parent company, and Marussia deliberately jettisoned to pave the way for the team to enter in 2015 as Manor (or someone else, if they can find a backer).

That thought crossed my mind earlier, not sure whether it's plausible or not. If the 200 people made redundant were somehow simply transferred across to Manor then they might make it work. But again, they still need the money for it. Where's that coming from?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 07 Nov 2014, 21:42

That remains to be seen, but it will be easier to find without the Marussia entity strung up over their heads.

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 08 Nov 2014, 02:46

Barbazza wrote:Who would have thought it - maybe Formula E is the future after all?!

I suspect that when Roger Penske sets a team up in there. He's popped up in V8 Supercars, NASCAR, IndyCar, and even F1 back in the 1970s... Until then, I bet on IndyCar being the successor to F1.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 08 Nov 2014, 08:40

It's sad if we never see Marussia/Manor again, but at least they've gone with more dignity (and points) than Caterham.

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 08 Nov 2014, 09:24

Onxy Wrecked wrote:
Barbazza wrote:Who would have thought it - maybe Formula E is the future after all?!

I suspect that when Roger Penske sets a team up in there. He's popped up in V8 Supercars, NASCAR, IndyCar, and even F1 back in the 1970s... Until then, I bet on IndyCar being the successor to F1.

Indycar needs to expand outside of North America to become a successor to F1. The best places to go would be countries like Brazil, Japan, UK, Germany and Australia, where they've been before, that have racing history.

Formula E could become successsful if it fixes the issue with cars not lasting the whole race at the moment, and maybe making the cars a bit faster.

Post by **mario** » 08 Nov 2014, 09:41

Barbazza wrote:
mario wrote:The BBC were claiming that, when it comes to dividing out the money from FOM, Sauber would be moved up into Marussia's position:

If that is true (and I wouldn't be bloody surprised) then this is yet another one of Bernie's ludicrous rules. I really am losing interest in all of this. Having just got what I thought was a good deal on Sky Sports mainly for F1 - though I do watch football and cricket as well - for the next year, I'm tempted to cancel it and just stick a DVD in for an old season every time there's a race weekend. Maybe 83, that was fairly entertaining. I'll get to watch Jarier being a dick on a regular basis. And Rosberg senior driving like a genius, better than Rosberg junior any day.

I would assume that it could also be that, because Marussia have effectively ceased to exist, they have effectively forfeited their right to money from FOM - who exactly would FOM pay the money to if there is now no legal entity to pay the money to?
There is an analogous situation with Sauber - when BMW withdrew from F1, they did so in such a manner as to actively void Sauber's entry rights and therefore all rights to payment from FOM (although Bernie did intervene to ensure that Sauber would still be paid the revenue they were due from FOM), since Sauber had to be recategorised as a new entrant.

Captain Hammer wrote:EJ seems to think that the ownership of the entry was transferred to Manor, the parent company, and Marussia deliberately jettisoned to pave the way for the team to enter in 2015 as Manor (or someone else, if they can find a backer).

I suppose it is possible - whilst there were signs that Marussia was in deep trouble, the extent of those issues is now becoming clear. On another forum, somebody had dug out some of the older financial accounts for Marussia (dated 31st Dec 2012) that showed that, back then, their debts were in the order of £133 million and the interest rates of some of those loans ranged from 7% to 20% - which probably explains why the team was effectively impossible to sell, since just the interest payments on the loans would run into tens of millions.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 08 Nov 2014, 10:08

What happened to Lawrence Stroll buying the team?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 08 Nov 2014, 10:34

It obviously didn't happen. He was said to be talking to several teams, but has apparently lost interest altogether.

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 08 Nov 2014, 18:45

andrew2209 wrote:
Onxy Wrecked wrote:I suspect that when Roger Penske sets a team up in there. He's popped up in V8 Supercars, NASCAR, IndyCar, and even F1 back in the 1970s... Until then, I bet on IndyCar being the successor to F1.

Indycar needs to expand outside of North America to become a successor to F1. The best places to go would be countries like Brazil, Japan, UK, Germany and Australia, where they've been before, that have racing history.

Formula E could become successsful if it fixes the issue with cars not lasting the whole race at the moment, and maybe making the cars a bit faster.

Both have major flaws. IndyCar fears leaving the Americas and Formula E has horribly flawed cars that can't be ran for the entire length of the race. Still, I doubt either can be the successor and it might just be one of the F1 feeder lines who replaces F1.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 08 Nov 2014, 21:05

Onxy Wrecked wrote:Both have major flaws. IndyCar fears leaving the Americas and Formula E has horribly flawed cars that can't be ran for the entire length of the race. Still, I doubt either can be the successor and it might just be one of the F1 feeder lines who replaces F1.

Great! The pinnacle of motorsports, now with Dallara chassis monopoly!

Anyway, I have two thoughts on this whole thing:
1) Well, I guess that confirms that there can never be more than two consecutive seasons in which F1 has the exact same teams with the same names.
2) I suppose Forza Rossa will think twice before entering now, because this isn't really a promising example.

f1andrea · Post by **f1andrea** » 08 Nov 2014, 23:45

Latest news!!!!

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/formula- ... 18189.html

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 08 Nov 2014, 23:51

f1andrea wrote:Latest news!!!!

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/formula- ... 18189.html

I really want this to be true!

f1andrea · Post by **f1andrea** » 08 Nov 2014, 23:57

roblomas52 wrote:
f1andrea wrote:Latest news!!!!

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/formula- ... 18189.html

I really want this to be true!

this news has been retweeted by Max Chilton, there could be a piece of truth in this, because his account remained mute about Marussia "end"

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 09 Nov 2014, 00:04

Read the article folks. There are no interested parties. It's merely an advertisment for Summit Bespoke Investments and a certain Mr Hanan Kattan.

In addition, the article has been distributed via a newswire. Yahoo Finance are known for being a sink for pointless, irrelevant press releases from companies looking to generate a bit of buzz or boost their Google search ranking. Unfortunately that is all this is. Mr Kattan is just shamelessly using Marussia's demise to pitch his own company.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 09 Nov 2014, 00:52

Waris wrote:Great! The pinnacle of motorsports, now with Dallara chassis monopoly!

Formula E are supposedly going to open chassis design for 2015 at least.

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 09 Nov 2014, 02:31

Waris wrote:
Onxy Wrecked wrote:Both have major flaws. IndyCar fears leaving the Americas and Formula E has horribly flawed cars that can't be ran for the entire length of the race. Still, I doubt either can be the successor and it might just be one of the F1 feeder lines who replaces F1.

Great! The pinnacle of motorsports, now with Dallara chassis monopoly!

Anyway, I have two thoughts on this whole thing:
1) Well, I guess that confirms that there can never be more than two consecutive seasons in which F1 has the exact same teams with the same names.
2) I suppose Forza Rossa will think twice before entering now, because this isn't really a promising example.

At least it keeps development costs down which will allow teams enter easier than F1.

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 09 Nov 2014, 10:33

Backmarker wrote:
Waris wrote:Great! The pinnacle of motorsports, now with Dallara chassis monopoly!

Formula E are supposedly going to open chassis design for 2015 at least.

https://transportevolved.com/2014/09/30 ... potential/

Formula E seems to be focused more on powertrains than chassis development.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 09 Nov 2014, 20:17

andrew2209 wrote:
Backmarker wrote:
Waris wrote:Great! The pinnacle of motorsports, now with Dallara chassis monopoly!

Formula E are supposedly going to open chassis design for 2015 at least.

https://transportevolved.com/2014/09/30 ... potential/

Formula E seems to be focused more on powertrains than chassis development.

As they should be. The cars are pathetically slow, and only development of a superior powertrain (and energy source) will change that. I wonder if we will ever see mid-race battery switching as a real possibility.

Post by **Frogfoot9013** » 09 Nov 2014, 20:20

F1000X wrote:I wonder if we will ever see mid-race battery switching as a real possibility.

It probably takes too long at present for that to be feasible, hence the two-car system we're stuck with currently.

f1andrea · Post by **f1andrea** » 09 Nov 2014, 20:25

Graeme Lowdon confirms the rumors I posted yesterday night:

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/17581 ... nue-in-f-1

Post by **mario** » 09 Nov 2014, 20:36

Frogfoot9013 wrote:
F1000X wrote:I wonder if we will ever see mid-race battery switching as a real possibility.

It probably takes too long at present for that to be feasible, hence the two-car system we're stuck with currently.

The main issue is that, right now, the battery pack weighs a considerable amount - the current pack is 320kg, mainly because it is designed to be used for an entire season. It's a fairly conservative design, so the weight is likely to drop with optimisation over the next few years, but even so the batteries are likely to be in the order of a few hundred kilos for each car.

Now, the technology to switch over batteries at a rapid rate exists - Tesla Motors have been taking about the idea for several years now - but to manually switch over a large quantity of modular batteries in a single pit stop does sound like a recipe for accidents and injuries to occur.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 09 Nov 2014, 20:47

mario wrote:
Frogfoot9013 wrote:
F1000X wrote:I wonder if we will ever see mid-race battery switching as a real possibility.

It probably takes too long at present for that to be feasible, hence the two-car system we're stuck with currently.

The main issue is that, right now, the battery pack weighs a considerable amount - the current pack is 320kg, mainly because it is designed to be used for an entire season. It's a fairly conservative design, so the weight is likely to drop with optimisation over the next few years, but even so the batteries are likely to be in the order of a few hundred kilos for each car.

Now, the technology to switch over batteries at a rapid rate exists - Tesla Motors have been taking about the idea for several years now - but to manually switch over a large quantity of modular batteries in a single pit stop does sound like a recipe for accidents and injuries to occur.

I imagine you would have to change where the batteries are located in the chassis. Maybe putting the power cells in detachable sidepods.

Post by **mario** » 09 Nov 2014, 21:03

mario wrote:
Frogfoot9013 wrote:
F1000X wrote:I wonder if we will ever see mid-race battery switching as a real possibility.

It probably takes too long at present for that to be feasible, hence the two-car system we're stuck with currently.

The main issue is that, right now, the battery pack weighs a considerable amount - the current pack is 320kg, mainly because it is designed to be used for an entire season. It's a fairly conservative design, so the weight is likely to drop with optimisation over the next few years, but even so the batteries are likely to be in the order of a few hundred kilos for each car.

Now, the technology to switch over batteries at a rapid rate exists - Tesla Motors have been taking about the idea for several years now - but to manually switch over a large quantity of modular batteries in a single pit stop does sound like a recipe for accidents and injuries to occur.

F1000X wrote:I imagine you would have to change where the batteries are located in the chassis. Maybe putting the power cells in detachable sidepods.

You'd have to change that over, although perhaps not detachable sidepods given the problems that could cause due to interference with the side impact structures and the risk of the sidepod detaching due to a side impact. The problem is that, for crash protection purposes, the current position (behind the driver safety cell) is the safest place for them, but it also makes accessibility a major issue for fast changes.

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 09 Nov 2014, 22:57

F1000X wrote:As they should be. The cars are pathetically slow, and only development of a superior powertrain (and energy source) will change that. I wonder if we will ever see mid-race battery switching as a real possibility.

It depends on the location and size of the batteries, but it will take at least 30 seconds at minimum given NASCAR battery changes. Bigger batteries will take even longer if my presumptions are correct.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 19 Nov 2014, 10:21

In what could be the greatest resurrection since Lazarus:

MARUSSIA ARE ON THEIR WAY TO ABU DHABI!

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 19 Nov 2014, 10:24

Backmarker wrote:In what could be the greatest resurrection since Lazarus:

MARUSSIA ARE ON THEIR WAY TO ABU DHABI!

Start and park to get the money they earned?

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 19 Nov 2014, 10:27

CoopsII wrote:
Backmarker wrote:In what could be the greatest resurrection since Lazarus:

MARUSSIA ARE ON THEIR WAY TO ABU DHABI!

Start and park to get the money they earned?

Could be a plan. Also could it get them back on the entry list for 2015, giving a slim hope that they will get bought?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 19 Nov 2014, 10:28

Backmarker wrote:In what could be the greatest resurrection since Lazarus:

MARUSSIA ARE ON THEIR WAY TO ABU DHABI!

That would be... Wow!!! By the way, it is too early to speculate on the driver(s) would be? Start and park counts as a presence.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 19 Nov 2014, 10:32

DanielPT wrote:
Backmarker wrote:In what could be the greatest resurrection since Lazarus:

MARUSSIA ARE ON THEIR WAY TO ABU DHABI!

By the way, it is too early to speculate on the driver(s) would be?

Never too early. Maybe Alexander Rossi?

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 19 Nov 2014, 10:33

DanielPT wrote:
Backmarker wrote:In what could be the greatest resurrection since Lazarus:

MARUSSIA ARE ON THEIR WAY TO ABU DHABI!

That would be... Wow!!! By the way, it is too early to speculate on the driver(s) would be? Start and park counts as a presence.

Jacques Villeneuve.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 19 Nov 2014, 10:35

CoopsII wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
Backmarker wrote:In what could be the greatest resurrection since Lazarus:

MARUSSIA ARE ON THEIR WAY TO ABU DHABI!

That would be... Wow!!! By the way, it is too early to speculate on the driver(s) would be? Start and park counts as a presence.

Jacques Villeneuve.

But, due to an administrative error, they hire Jacques Villeneuve senior.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 19 Nov 2014, 10:36

Backmarker wrote:But, due to an administrative error, they hire Jacques Villeneuve senior.

After his performance last time out I'd vote for Nelson Piquet senior

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 19 Nov 2014, 10:38

CoopsII wrote:
Backmarker wrote:But, due to an administrative error, they hire Jacques Villeneuve senior.

After his performance last time out I'd vote for Nelson Piquet senior

Regardless of who it is, I am betting that Max Chilton still finishes the race!

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 19 Nov 2014, 11:03

Well, it looks like I was proven wrong, and in this case I'm happy

Post by **Londoner** » 19 Nov 2014, 11:10

As far as I understand, all Marussia need to do is attempt a few laps in qualifying, and they will collect the prize money for 9th in the WCC, assuming Sauber don't score at Abby Dabby. It won't matter if they fall foul of the 107% rule. And in any case, I wouldn't be surprised if everyone is given dispensation to race, considering this is supposed to be a big grand finale to the season.

Either way, this is fantastic news.

Pointrox · Post by **Pointrox** » 19 Nov 2014, 11:19

I cannot believe, even though I want to

If 'tis true, then this will be the best birthday present a Formula One fan (namely myself) can receive, hands down :mrgreen: