Editorial direction of GP Rejects

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 03 Mar 2015, 11:13

Good morning all,

I will give my two cents here.

With the main site being so bare at the moment, I think the top priority should be getting new content. If we end up with a situation that looks messy - that's better than having nothing at all because we haven't been able to agree on who should do what. Remember that the old site consisted of many different sections, only a few of which were consistently updated and even then, the parts which were updated kept changing through the years, as Jamie & Enoch's availability changed.

Second priority, choose what kind of content we want. IMHO focus should be on driver profiles, team profiles, race reviews, features and reject awards (race and year). I don't think we need news, there's a ton of other sites who can do a better work at that. And I don't think we need any particular organisation to work on the first four categories - let's start researching and writing! Once people have something prepared, they can share it here or they can send it directly to Biscione and/or Nuppiz (I guess we do need some organisation on this point). For the time being, I think it would be nice to have a list of reject drivers and teams* and the eligibility criteria.

The only category that needs to get more or less immediate attention is reject awards. I would go for a small group of people (ideally three at most, can be less) taking the final decision on ROTR and ROTY. I would like to hear Biscione's and Nuppiz's take on this.

Oh, and about the question of what is and what isn't the same team, I don't think we can achieve a standard definition for this. If we go for changes of ownership, then Minardi under Minardi would be a different team than Minardi under Rumi or than Minardi under Stoddart. It doesn't work. But if we go for name change, then 2010 Lotus would be a different team than 2013 Caterham, I think it will have to be treated on a case-by-case basis.

*I was thinking about the need to limit the list to drivers and teams that haven't competed past 2009, or that, for any intents and purposes, can no longer get out of reject status, like HRT. Then I've realized that, by this definition, Jules Bianchi also qualifies...

Kuwashima · Post by **Kuwashima** » 03 Mar 2015, 11:32

dinizintheoven wrote:Do you know what we - or even just the new head honchos - should do first?

Decide on an absolute and final Reject Of The Year 2014 before the new season starts!

I have a candidate in mind.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 03 Mar 2015, 11:34

ROTY candidate or choosing-the-ROTY candidate?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 03 Mar 2015, 12:03

Race reviews...erm....yes...

I asked Enoch if he wanted to continue doing those here, but he politely declined. Am I supposed to do them now? I don't know, I won't lie, there is a little part of me that'd like to do that, but I'd probably look like a right tit doing so, and get myself into hot water at some point!

Of course, I am taking the concept of community submissions seriously, but I don't want 5 race reviews for the same race on the site!

Oh my, this being in charge stuff...it's more work and thinking than I expected! Would anyone particularly mind if I just simplified things for myself by ruling with an iron fist?

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 03 Mar 2015, 12:10

I don't think you have to write race reviews, and I don't think you should have five different race reviews published either. But it would be great if we had five race review submissions for Melbourne! If you, or the community, likes all of them, we could establish a rotation system or something. At this point I believe the more, the merrier.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 03 Mar 2015, 12:27

Ferrim wrote:Oh, and about the question of what is and what isn't the same team, I don't think we can achieve a standard definition for this. If we go for changes of ownership, then Minardi under Minardi would be a different team than Minardi under Rumi or than Minardi under Stoddart. It doesn't work. But if we go for name change, then 2010 Lotus would be a different team than 2013 Caterham, I think it will have to be treated on a case-by-case basis.[/size]

Both the identity beginning with "L" and "Caterham" were sub-names of the same team, which was officially known in Malaysia as 1Malaysia Racing Team Ltd (and unofficially Fondmetal Team Malaysia by us...) irrespective of what it was called on the track, so I'd say that was one team that lasted five years.

Wikipedia may not agree, but they're not the boss of me.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 03 Mar 2015, 12:32

I agree on that, and I think HRT and Virgin/Marussia/Manor are also one and the same.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 03 Mar 2015, 15:18

I'll throw my hat in the ring on this. I too would be willing to do some content, such as a Scaarb profile, or rebuilding/redoing/remaking the Parnell profile. Plus I have ideas for an article on reject engines, and my research for a book I'm writing has revealed that the Ferrari Ascari qualified at Indy had a hellva life afterwards. That could make a neat article. I have no problem signing over the content as long as I get credit for it (only because as a historian it looks good to get published lol)

All that being said, we need some order. A sign-up thread at the least, or better yet a small subforum, such as the "open tickets" ones. Make two lists, new profiles, and "rebuildable" ones and let people sign up. Many hands make light work.

And as for the name games. All the new teams are one entity. Ditto for Arrows/Footwork, and March Leyton House, (although neither are rejects). Name changes should not create a second profile in and of itself (see Onyx). As for Lol/Laurusse/Venturi, why not do one, broken into 3+ parts? Just come out and explain that no one has idea about them (Like little Art's chassis numbers).

Either way, I hope we all pitch in to rebuild the site.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 03 Mar 2015, 15:52

Wallio wrote:Name changes should not create a second profile in and of itself (see Onyx). As for Lol/Laurusse/Venturi, why not do one, broken into 3+ parts?

The problem with Larrousse is that they would have unrejectified themselves quite easily during their time using a Lola chassis, but not with the Venturi or their own in-house chassis.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 03 Mar 2015, 16:15

Simtek, can you talk to another member into doing a 5 minute audio discussion over a recent F1 news piece? And post the result here? Just for us to see if it is something feasible.

By the way, I am sorry if I am stepping over someone by suggesting this, but I feel like if it is not talked about or the discussion being forced to move forward, then things like this won't get done. Again, if I am in the wrong, I deeply apologize.

Ferrim wrote:I don't think you have to write race reviews, and I don't think you should have five different race reviews published either. But it would be great if we had five race review submissions for Melbourne! If you, or the community, likes all of them, we could establish a rotation system or something. At this point I believe the more, the merrier.

I would prefer one review per race that globally reflected the different submissions views although that might be difficult to manage.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 03 Mar 2015, 16:44

DanielPT wrote:Simtek, can you talk to another member into doing a 5 minute audio discussion over a recent F1 news piece? And post the result here? Just for us to see if it is something feasible.

By the way, I am sorry if I am stepping over someone by suggesting this, but I feel like if it is not talked about or the discussion being forced to move forward, then things like this won't get done. Again, if I am in the wrong, I deeply apologize.

At present I lack the necessary equipment for any podcasting, so I may have to rely on someone else there.

I'll see if my friend (the one I did Let's Plays with) still has his recording gear. The prospect of doing this with another member does make me nervous. I just hope my voice doesn't crack or I end up forgetting what to say! But I suppose that's what the experiment's all about.

So, any volunteers?

Post by **tommykl** » 03 Mar 2015, 17:27

Simtek wrote:
DanielPT wrote:Simtek, can you talk to another member into doing a 5 minute audio discussion over a recent F1 news piece? And post the result here? Just for us to see if it is something feasible.

By the way, I am sorry if I am stepping over someone by suggesting this, but I feel like if it is not talked about or the discussion being forced to move forward, then things like this won't get done. Again, if I am in the wrong, I deeply apologize.

At present I lack the necessary equipment for any podcasting, so I may have to rely on someone else there. I'll see if my friend (the one I did Let's Plays with) still has his recording gear. The prospect of doing this with another member does make me nervous. I just hope my voice doesn't crack or I end up forgetting what to say! But I suppose that's what the experiment's all about.

So, any volunteers?

I've got a decent microphone, so as long as I can manage to find something to say and find enough time, I'm up for it

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 03 Mar 2015, 18:37

tommykl wrote:
Simtek wrote:At present I lack the necessary equipment for any podcasting, so I may have to rely on someone else there. I'll see if my friend (the one I did Let's Plays with) still has his recording gear. The prospect of doing this with another member does make me nervous. I just hope my voice doesn't crack or I end up forgetting what to say! But I suppose that's what the experiment's all about.

So, any volunteers?

I've got a decent microphone, so as long as I can manage to find something to say and find enough time, I'm up for it

Great! Sure enough a prescript would be needed in order to avoid memory lapses or lack of things to say!

Hope you guys can work out a skype meeting and record some stuff! A radio presenter and an encyclopedia!

Don't mind if I think that things are shaping up on this side!

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 03 Mar 2015, 19:13

tommykl wrote:
Simtek wrote:
DanielPT wrote:Simtek, can you talk to another member into doing a 5 minute audio discussion over a recent F1 news piece? And post the result here? Just for us to see if it is something feasible.

By the way, I am sorry if I am stepping over someone by suggesting this, but I feel like if it is not talked about or the discussion being forced to move forward, then things like this won't get done. Again, if I am in the wrong, I deeply apologize.

At present I lack the necessary equipment for any podcasting, so I may have to rely on someone else there. I'll see if my friend (the one I did Let's Plays with) still has his recording gear. The prospect of doing this with another member does make me nervous. I just hope my voice doesn't crack or I end up forgetting what to say! But I suppose that's what the experiment's all about.

So, any volunteers?

I've got a decent microphone, so as long as I can manage to find something to say and find enough time, I'm up for it

I could possibly help out as well.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 03 Mar 2015, 22:38

Voice samples (from a year ago)! Everyone will understand MinardiFan just fine, him being an Aussie and thus a natural progression from Enoch. Myself on the other hand? Not so much :oops:

Scrap Thistlethwayte · Post by **Scrap Thistlethwayte** » 04 Mar 2015, 22:06

Can I throw my hat in the ring to right a few bits for the site. I don't have the time or depth of knowledge to do race reviews but I have a few ideas for features and historical articles.

solidsnake · Post by **solidsnake** » 05 Mar 2015, 00:05

Biscione wrote:Voice samples (from a year ago)! Everyone will understand MinardiFan just fine, him being an Aussie and thus a natural progression from Enoch. Myself on the other hand? Not so much

Nothing wrong with a beautiful, clean Edinburgh accent!

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 05 Mar 2015, 13:15

solidsnake wrote:
Biscione wrote:Voice samples (from a year ago)! Everyone will understand MinardiFan just fine, him being an Aussie and thus a natural progression from Enoch. Myself on the other hand? Not so much

Nothing wrong with a beautiful, clean Edinburgh accent!

I don't think there is such a thing as Edinburgh accent! It seems a bit more like "generic Scottish" to me. Certainly nothing like the true Lanarkshire ned accent I have buried deep down inside from my roots!

Scrap Thistlethwayte · Post by **Scrap Thistlethwayte** » 05 Mar 2015, 14:07

Aye ken would an Ayrshire accent be offensive to the podworld? Probably, actually definitely yes.

Discussing who has the worst regional Scottish accent is without a doubt the only reason to have brought this forum back. Back for less than a week and this forum has surpassed itself for rejectfullness.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 05 Mar 2015, 17:58

Scrap Thistlethwayte wrote:Aye ken would an Ayrshire accent be offensive to the podworld? Probably, actually definitely yes.

Discussing who has the worst regional Scottish accent is without a doubt the only reason to have brought this forum back. Back for less than a week and this forum has surpassed itself for rejectfullness.

Dundonian. Might as well be Swahili.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 05 Mar 2015, 20:43

Biscione wrote:
Scrap Thistlethwayte wrote:Aye ken would an Ayrshire accent be offensive to the podworld? Probably, actually definitely yes.

Discussing who has the worst regional Scottish accent is without a doubt the only reason to have brought this forum back. Back for less than a week and this forum has surpassed itself for rejectfullness.

Dundonian. Might as well be Swahili.

Aye, hakuna matata.

TomPryce · Post by **TomPryce** » 06 Mar 2015, 10:21

Hi guys - I am a writer in my spare time, and teach English as a job, so I am more than willing to contribute more articles. I also have a saved version of the F1 for PS1 article I did, and am more than willing to give it back to the site. I mean, you can't FOM a review, right?

BabyG · Post by **BabyG** » 07 Mar 2015, 13:24

Hi everyone,

I am absolutly delighted to read that so many people are offering to put in alot of time and effort to contribute to the new site and to keep the ethos and raison d'etre of the original. Its certainly something that I couldn't do myself and I have the greatest respect, admiration and gratitude for those of you who are doing so.

For me I think that you need to set some short and long term goals and prioritise what aspects of GP Rejects you think are essential or just desirable. Everyone will have a different opinion on what these would be as we all used the origial site in different ways.

Its my biggest hope that someone could take on the role of deciding who is awarded Reject of the Race. It is one of my favourite aspects of the site and it is something that has to be awarded consistently by the same person as it is so subjective and a little controversial that a democratic vote like that for IIDOTR wouldn't work for it.

The podcasts and the race reviews were a great part of the origial site that I would love to see return, but seeing as GP Rejects is essential being rebuilt from scratch surely they have to be a longer term objective? I'm prepared to have a bit of patience, wait for the dust to settle over the coming season. If someone does find the time and the energy to write even a 2015 season review that for me would be a big success and a massive tribute to the GP Rejects community.

In a nut shell, I hope that people here don't feel obliged into hastily cobbling together podcasts, article, reviews etc in order to match the efforts of Jamie and Enoch. F1 Rejects was the culmination of years of hard work and dedication and I'm prepared to wait and give the new site time rebuild.

I wish everyone involved the best of luck and I look forward to reading and listening to your contributions!

girry · Post by **girry** » 08 Mar 2015, 15:26

Since we're the Grand Prix Rejects now - why not take up the entire (1906-) history of Grand Prix racing instead of merely concentrating on the World Championship teams and drivers?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 08 Mar 2015, 15:45

giraurd wrote:Since we're the Grand Prix Rejects now - why not take up the entire (1906-) history of Grand Prix racing instead of merely concentrating on the World Championship teams and drivers?

Can of worms. Also unrejectifies drivers who would previously have met the critieria. Loads of "rejects" from the fifties would be unrejectified thanks to their results from non-championship races both during and before the F1 era.

Expanding criteria is right at the bottom of our priority list. So low it's anchored to the floor by a massive boulder. The last thing we should be doing is expanding our horizons when we haven't even returned to the point we were at before F1R died.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 08 Mar 2015, 15:50

Biscione wrote:
giraurd wrote:Since we're the Grand Prix Rejects now - why not take up the entire (1906-) history of Grand Prix racing instead of merely concentrating on the World Championship teams and drivers?

Can of worms. Also unrejectifies drivers who would previously have met the critieria. Loads of "rejects" from the fifties would be unrejectified thanks to their results from non-championship races both during and before the F1 era.

Expanding criteria is right at the bottom of our priority list. So low it's anchored to the floor by a massive boulder. The last thing we should be doing is expanding our horizons when we haven't even returned to the point we were at before F1R died.

Besides, finding biographical information on obscure drivers from the 1950s is already no easy task. Finding info on such drivers from the 1900s is damn near impossible. Can anyone give any significant information on "Mariaux", the driver who finished last in the 1906 French Grand Prix?

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 18 Mar 2015, 17:48

Kuwashima wrote:I have a candidate in mind.

Good. I've always appreciated your expert commentary very much, so I'm looking forward to you speaking about it, whenever and wherever that might be. An inadequate Shakira quote comes to mind here, but please don't let that bother you, it's just for a laugh.
Of course, like most registered users of this board, I fully understand that - for unspecified reasons - that the time and the place for that could be anytime and anywhere. And if not, I wouldn't mind either.
This message is just to say I've always appreciated your expert commentary very much. If you scroll upwards, I think I have said this before. To not repeat myself again, I'd better shut up.

Anyhow, here's wishing an enjoyable Car Sport season 2015 for you all in Australia!

Post by **mario** » 20 Mar 2015, 21:06

With respect to articles for the website, I would like to put one point out here for discussion.

With regards to the two articles that I've written in the past (the Aston Martin profile and the Yamaha OX88 article), I am more than happy for them to be uploaded onto the new site. However, given that those articles were edited by Enoch, I feel that it is only fair to upload the finished articles if he is happy for them to go up and is credited accordingly given his contribution.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 26 Mar 2015, 14:55

As it appears as though I still actually have an account which has been migrated here, and as technically this is now a different website, let me just break my silence briefly. Both as to previously existing material and writing again in the future.

Ideally, I would not like to see the written articles from the past disappear permanently. But as to how and where and in what form they might reappear, I don't know. That is something that will need to be considered and discussed as appropriate. But I hope you will understand that, when you have worked on a project for 15 years and then stop, you want to not think about it for a little while. The last few months have been challenging for various reasons (and continue to be), I have just returned from overseas (literally five hours ago), and right now I have a few other non-motorsport projects I wish to focus on.

It does not help that, as I'm sure has been discussed elsewhere on this forum (I must admit, I have not looked), I will be suffering from the inability to watch every race this year (even on delay) given the changes to broadcasting arrangements in Australia. This weekend's race in Malaysia will be the first since 1991 that I will not see in full. I cannot justify the investment of pay TV in our household. That rather dampens my enthusiasm to think too much about the sport right now.

Let me say, however, that there is a part of me that itches to continue writing - and, for that matter, continue podcasting - both on motorsport (whether on the same themes as previously or more broadly) and on other matters. Again, as to how and where and in what form that might happen, again I don't know. There are plenty of other stories from the history of Grand Prix racing I would like to learn about and retell. I'd like to think that in good time I will pick that up again. And I must say that I do regret having stopped when I did because it meant we could not crown Daniel Ricciardo as the driver of the year in 2014 (although I have no idea who ROTY would have been).

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 26 Mar 2015, 15:53

Enoch, it's great to hear from you, as always. While it's sad that you won't be able to follow the sport as closely this year (and for perfectly understandable reasons), it's good to know that there is a slight possibility of continuing contributions from your side in the future, however big or small

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 27 Mar 2015, 00:20

Wonderful to hear from you, Enoch.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 27 Mar 2015, 15:38

Just great to hear you're alive and well and the pilot light for motorsport hasn't gone out. We'll still be here if the boiler fires up properly again!

Julien · Post by **Julien** » 28 Mar 2015, 07:53

It would be great to see something similar to F1R teams/drivers articles. I know you're not allowed to repost those, but I think it was right and just that there was a little corner on the Internet where those who tried and eventually failed in F1 got remembered more than mentioning that they finished at the bottom of the time tables.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 01 Apr 2015, 09:03

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7395

If you haven't already please read the above thread and my suggestion at the bottom

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 03 Apr 2015, 15:57

Right! Here's something I know I suggested before, and it's worth repeating.

Now that ADx_Wales has posted a full race from the Aurora AFX Championship on the Reject Youtube thread, might I suggest unearthing the history of that championship becomes a major project for GP Rejects?

Many of the drivers involved, and a fair few of the cars, were exactly the kind of thing F1 Rejects thrived on in the beginning, and were profiled by Enoch (and probably Jamie as well). It would be an excellent link between the two eras of this site. In fact, I'll load up archive.org and take a look which Aurora drivers from any of the three and a half seasons were profiled: (deep breath) Desiré Wilson, David Kennedy, Ricardo Zunino, Gianfranco Brancatelli, Ricardo Londoño(-Bridge), and Piercarlo Ghinzani. And all those reject legends that got away, who could have had a profile but didn't: Tony Trimmer, Bob Evans, Emilio de Villota, Geoff Lees, Divina Galica, Brett Lunger, Stephen South, Tiff Needell, Carlo "Gimax" Franchi, Lella Lombardi, and Kevin Cogan. And then there were some big (or less rejectful) names who appeared in the series - a one-off race in 1978 from Elio de Angelis; two-wheeled legend Giacomo Agostini tried his hand at car racing in 1979 and 1980, accompanied by usual touring car racer David Leslie, and Derek Warwick who would race anything on any number of wheels. And there was some bloke called John Cooper racing in 1979, who I think used to do something with Minis.

I've had a look on Forix, and there are no records there at all. Wikipedia has pages for each season, with points tables, but not the results of the individual races. Somewhere out there, though, the information is out there to be able to produce a comprehensive series of results and championship tables that would be worthy of inclusion on Forix, even though the races were approaching 40 years ago. It's just a case of knowing where to look, and retrieving it. After all, someone at Wikipedia must have had enough access to it to be able to produce the championship tables...

And just one further point for reject platinum: proof that a good-looking car doesn't always mean results lies in the BRM P207. One of the only good-looking cars of the 1970s, it was rubbish in the F1 World Championship, and then rubbish again in the ailing British F1 Championship in 1982. It was the only V12 amongst a depleted field of Cosworth V8s, and finished stone dead last in the championship table!

Post by **mario** » 05 Apr 2015, 10:08

eytl wrote:As it appears as though I still actually have an account which has been migrated here, and as technically this is now a different website, let me just break my silence briefly. Both as to previously existing material and writing again in the future.

Ideally, I would not like to see the written articles from the past disappear permanently. But as to how and where and in what form they might reappear, I don't know. That is something that will need to be considered and discussed as appropriate. But I hope you will understand that, when you have worked on a project for 15 years and then stop, you want to not think about it for a little while. The last few months have been challenging for various reasons (and continue to be), I have just returned from overseas (literally five hours ago), and right now I have a few other non-motorsport projects I wish to focus on.

It does not help that, as I'm sure has been discussed elsewhere on this forum (I must admit, I have not looked), I will be suffering from the inability to watch every race this year (even on delay) given the changes to broadcasting arrangements in Australia. This weekend's race in Malaysia will be the first since 1991 that I will not see in full. I cannot justify the investment of pay TV in our household. That rather dampens my enthusiasm to think too much about the sport right now.

Let me say, however, that there is a part of me that itches to continue writing - and, for that matter, continue podcasting - both on motorsport (whether on the same themes as previously or more broadly) and on other matters. Again, as to how and where and in what form that might happen, again I don't know. There are plenty of other stories from the history of Grand Prix racing I would like to learn about and retell. I'd like to think that in good time I will pick that up again. And I must say that I do regret having stopped when I did because it meant we could not crown Daniel Ricciardo as the driver of the year in 2014 (although I have no idea who ROTY would have been).

Firstly, like everybody else here I am glad to see that, even if times have changed, that enthusiasm for motorsport still burns bright.

If, in the fullness of time, you feel like you are comfortable with picking up your pen or microphone once more and delving back into the history of the sport, I am certain that there will be many here looking forward to reading or listening to your words once again, myself included. In the meantime, I'd just like to offer my kindest regards and can understand why, as you say, you'd like to step back for a little while before deciding what you would like to do in the future.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 06 Apr 2015, 18:44

dinizintheoven wrote:Right! Here's something I know I suggested before, and it's worth repeating.

Now that ADx_Wales has posted a full race from the Aurora AFX Championship on the Reject Youtube thread, might I suggest unearthing the history of that championship becomes a major project for GP Rejects?

Many of the drivers involved, and a fair few of the cars, were exactly the kind of thing F1 Rejects thrived on in the beginning, and were profiled by Enoch (and probably Jamie as well). It would be an excellent link between the two eras of this site. In fact, I'll load up archive.org and take a look which Aurora drivers from any of the three and a half seasons were profiled: (deep breath) Desiré Wilson, David Kennedy, Ricardo Zunino, Gianfranco Brancatelli, Ricardo Londoño(-Bridge), and Piercarlo Ghinzani. And all those reject legends that got away, who could have had a profile but didn't: Tony Trimmer, Bob Evans, Emilio de Villota, Geoff Lees, Divina Galica, Brett Lunger, Stephen South, Tiff Needell, Carlo "Gimax" Franchi, Lella Lombardi, and Kevin Cogan. And then there were some big (or less rejectful) names who appeared in the series - a one-off race in 1978 from Elio de Angelis; two-wheeled legend Giacomo Agostini tried his hand at car racing in 1979 and 1980, accompanied by usual touring car racer David Leslie, and Derek Warwick who would race anything on any number of wheels. And there was some bloke called John Cooper racing in 1979, who I think used to do something with Minis.

I've had a look on Forix, and there are no records there at all. Wikipedia has pages for each season, with points tables, but not the results of the individual races. Somewhere out there, though, the information is out there to be able to produce a comprehensive series of results and championship tables that would be worthy of inclusion on Forix, even though the races were approaching 40 years ago. It's just a case of knowing where to look, and retrieving it. After all, someone at Wikipedia must have had enough access to it to be able to produce the championship tables...

And just one further point for reject platinum: proof that a good-looking car doesn't always mean results lies in the BRM P207. One of the only good-looking cars of the 1970s, it was rubbish in the F1 World Championship, and then rubbish again in the ailing British F1 Championship in 1982. It was the only V12 amongst a depleted field of Cosworth V8s, and finished stone dead last in the championship table!

I took a peek around my bookmarks, and found out that Silhouet.com's Formula One Archive has Aurora F1 race results from 1978 to 1980.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 06 Apr 2015, 19:07

The 1980 Aurora F1 race in Monza is also the only official appearance of the Dywa. This relatively unknown car makes Kauhsen and Life look like championship contenders in comparison. It's story would definitely be worth an article, however I expect research about this car to be very difficult.

What I know is that Dydo Monguzzi, and his brother-in-law Walter built several cars intended for Formula 1 between 1973 and 1983. Initially using an F5000 Chevrolet engine, the first car was completed in 1973. It was modified and fitted with a Ford Cosworth F1 engine in 1974. The car never appeared at a race meeting. Then, Dywa disappeared for the next 5 years, before presenting a new car in 1979 and entered for the Belgian GP, with Alberto Colombo supposed to be driving. The car didn't turn up for the race. In fact, it didn't run in a race meeting until the Monza race I mentioned. The poor driver was Piercarlo Ghinzani, who recorded a qualifying lap over 20 seconds off the pace in the almost undrivable car, and didn't start the race. Yet, Monguzzi didn't give up and built another car for 1983, which again didn't race. That was Monguzzis final attempt at Formula 1, but the story of the Dywa F1 car isn't over yet. Fulvio Ballabio bought the car and turned it into a Formula 3000 car, which performed even worse than the Dywa F1. During its only qualification attempt, Ballabio set a time almost double the pole time, and the car didn't run again.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 20 Apr 2015, 16:28

That's not just reject gold, that's reject iridium. This is why we need The Aurora Project!

I wonder where that "bigears" went with all that he unearthed on our favourite 90s reject teams a while back?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 20 Apr 2015, 19:00

dinizintheoven wrote:I wonder where that "bigears" went with all that he unearthed on our favourite 90s reject teams a while back?

It was he that inspired me to do my bit of Mastercard Lola research, and I can appreciate how many hours of work he must have put in to his posts.

If there is demand for me to attempt to turn my Lola post into a proper article, I might be able to over the next year or so.