Ponderbox

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 10 Feb 2015, 13:04

Yeah, hopefully see everyone on the other side

Post by **tommykl** » 10 Feb 2015, 13:12

In the meantime, we still have the chatroom and the wiki, if you aren't afraid of anything PMMF-related

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 10 Feb 2015, 20:49

tommykl wrote:In the meantime, we still have the chatroom and the wiki, if you aren't afraid of anything PMMF-related

Precisely the reason why I rarely visit the chatroom, or say anything when I do visit the chatroom (I'm still slowly immersing myself in the PMMF canon)

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 10 Feb 2015, 21:31

Simtek wrote:
tommykl wrote:In the meantime, we still have the chatroom and the wiki, if you aren't afraid of anything PMMF-related

Precisely the reason why I rarely visit the chatroom, or say anything when I do visit the chatroom (I'm still slowly immersing myself in the PMMF canon)

The backup forum is still online which is good.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 10 Feb 2015, 21:35

roblomas52 wrote:
Simtek wrote:
tommykl wrote:In the meantime, we still have the chatroom and the wiki, if you aren't afraid of anything PMMF-related

Precisely the reason why I rarely visit the chatroom, or say anything when I do visit the chatroom (I'm still slowly immersing myself in the PMMF canon)

The backup forum is still online which is good.

And it completely slipped my mind!

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 10 Feb 2015, 21:39

roblomas52 wrote:
Simtek wrote:
tommykl wrote:In the meantime, we still have the chatroom and the wiki, if you aren't afraid of anything PMMF-related

Precisely the reason why I rarely visit the chatroom, or say anything when I do visit the chatroom (I'm still slowly immersing myself in the PMMF canon)

The backup forum is still online which is good.

No. it is not. Stop mentioning it.

The backup forum is terrible. It's at the mercy of a host we don't know anything about it. We have no control over it. Anything posted there will be lost. Don't waste your time signing up to it.

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 10 Feb 2015, 22:29

Apparently RonDenisDeletraz or Dark77 set up that backup forum, IIRC.

EDIT: (last post ever in the old place) Yes, RDD ran that place. I did figure out that ownership could be transferred, but now that we're back... nevermind.

watka · Post by **watka** » 02 Mar 2015, 13:26

If we are GP Rejects now, does that mean we need to recalculate who is and isn't a reject based on non-championship and pre-F1 Grand Prix?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 02 Mar 2015, 14:01

watka wrote:If we are GP Rejects now, does that mean we need to recalculate who is and isn't a reject based on non-championship and pre-F1 Grand Prix?

And as we are now GP Rejects, this immediately disqualifies competitors in the Indy 500 from 1950 to 1960 inclusive from being rejects?

Post by **tommykl** » 02 Mar 2015, 15:23

dr-baker wrote:
watka wrote:If we are GP Rejects now, does that mean we need to recalculate who is and isn't a reject based on non-championship and pre-F1 Grand Prix?

And as we are now GP Rejects, this immediately disqualifies competitors in the Indy 500 from 1950 to 1960 inclusive from being rejects?

No, in fact, it's the opposite! The Indy 500 from 1950 to 1960 (as well as most of the 1920s) were Grands Prix, but not run to F1 regulations. So if anything, it makes them even more eligible.

Pointrox · Post by **Pointrox** » 14 Mar 2015, 14:13

When was the last time the team was present during the Grand Prix but didn't participate? May it be that Manor has managed to be the first team since Mastercard Lola's failed attempt to start in Brazil in 1997?

I would also like to shamelessly plug my Manor fan blog

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 14 Mar 2015, 14:18

Pointrox wrote:When was the last time the team was present during the Grand Prix but didn't participate? May it be that Manor has managed to be the first team since Mastercard Lola's failed attempt to start in Brazil in 1997?

I would also like to shamelessly plug my Manor fan blog

That is correct, sadly.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 14 Mar 2015, 16:09

Simtek wrote:
Pointrox wrote:When was the last time the team was present during the Grand Prix but didn't participate? May it be that Manor has managed to be the first team since Mastercard Lola's failed attempt to start in Brazil in 1997?

I would also like to shamelessly plug my Manor fan blog

That is correct, sadly.

I have been argueably the biggest Manor/Virgin/Marussia/MM/Manor shill on this site (their first car was and still is the prettiest thing any of the new teams built, even if it had a 5 gallon fuel capacity) but if what is being reported is true, that they only brought one front wing, I may have to abandon them. That means they had no intention of ever racing. Why bother? You can miss three races without penalty, so why the farce? Thats HRT stuff. I hope its only temporary though.

Post by **Ataxia** » 14 Mar 2015, 16:12

Wallio wrote:
Simtek wrote:
Pointrox wrote:When was the last time the team was present during the Grand Prix but didn't participate? May it be that Manor has managed to be the first team since Mastercard Lola's failed attempt to start in Brazil in 1997?

I would also like to shamelessly plug my Manor fan blog

That is correct, sadly.

I have been argueably the biggest Manor/Virgi/Marussia/MM/Manor shill on this site (there first car was and srill is the prettiest thing any of the new teams built, even if it had a 5 gallon fuel capacity) but if what is being report is true, that they nly brought one front wing, I may have to abandon them. That means they had no intention of ever racing. Why bother? You can miss three races without penalty, so why the farce? Thats HRT stuff. I hope its only temporary though.

The cars were completely race-ready, it was just software that was the issue. That's it.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 14 Mar 2015, 16:49

Ataxia wrote:

The cars were completely race-ready, it was just software that was the issue. That's it.

I hope that is the case. NBC keeps repeating the "one wing" rumor though. But if its software, than That's understandable.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 14 Mar 2015, 16:56

Races like this demand a chronological review of events! There are so many candidates for ROTR, all at different times, for many different reasons. Whatever happens this is going to be a weekend to remember, but there's far too many things for me to get my head around :S

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 14 Mar 2015, 17:05

Rob Dylan wrote:Races like this demand a chronological review of events! There are so many candidates for ROTR, all at different times, for many different reasons. Whatever happens this is going to be a weekend to remember, but there's far too many things for me to get my head around :S

At this rate, ROTR might be one of those multiple-winner affairs. Or else just F1 as a whole. But let's wit until the race itself. At this rate, there's bound to be something rejectful about that too...

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 14 Mar 2015, 18:38

Pointrox wrote:When was the last time the team was present during the Grand Prix but didn't participate? May it be that Manor has managed to be the first team since Mastercard Lola's failed attempt to start in Brazil in 1997?

I would also like to shamelessly plug my Manor fan blog

How present were Stefan at Bahrain or Pheonix at Malaysia?

Post by **mario** » 14 Mar 2015, 19:26

Wallio wrote:
Simtek wrote:
Pointrox wrote:When was the last time the team was present during the Grand Prix but didn't participate? May it be that Manor has managed to be the first team since Mastercard Lola's failed attempt to start in Brazil in 1997?

I would also like to shamelessly plug my Manor fan blog

That is correct, sadly.

I have been argueably the biggest Manor/Virgin/Marussia/MM/Manor shill on this site (their first car was and still is the prettiest thing any of the new teams built, even if it had a 5 gallon fuel capacity) but if what is being reported is true, that they only brought one front wing, I may have to abandon them. That means they had no intention of ever racing. Why bother? You can miss three races without penalty, so why the farce? Thats HRT stuff. I hope its only temporary though.

Technically, teams cannot miss any races during a season (except for reasons of "force majeure"). Whilst FOM's contract reportedly allows a team to miss up to three races per season and still qualify for payment, the teams also have separate contractual obligations with the FIA for their entry rights.

Under that contract, the FIA has the right to strip a team of its entry rights if they miss a single race - that was why, in the final races in 2014, the stewards for those races stated that they were referring Caterham and Marussia's absence to the FIA. Although Manor entered this race, because they have failed to compete in any of the sessions, the FIA has instructed Manor to appear before the stewards to justify their absence - so Manor are in trouble with the FIA at least.

Although the FIA hasn't exercised its power to strip a team of its licence recently, if the FIA were theoretically to revoke the entry rights of a team, that team would also lose its rights to any prize funds - because as soon as a team has its entry rights revoked, it effectively ceases to be a team, and FOM's contracts state that they are only obliged to make payments to teams that have valid entry rights recognised by the FIA (otherwise the team effectively doesn't exist).

gnrpoison · Post by **gnrpoison** » 15 Mar 2015, 05:24

Technically, teams cannot miss any races during a season (except for reasons of "force majeure"). Whilst FOM's contract reportedly allows a team to miss up to three races per season and still qualify for payment, the teams also have separate contractual obligations with the FIA for their entry rights.

Under that contract, the FIA has the right to strip a team of its entry rights if they miss a single race - that was why, in the final races in 2014, the stewards for those races stated that they were referring Caterham and Marussia's absence to the FIA. Although Manor entered this race, because they have failed to compete in any of the sessions, the FIA has instructed Manor to appear before the stewards to justify their absence - so Manor are in trouble with the FIA at least.

Although the FIA hasn't exercised its power to strip a team of its licence recently, if the FIA were theoretically to revoke the entry rights of a team, that team would also lose its rights to any prize funds - because as soon as a team has its entry rights revoked, it effectively ceases to be a team, and FOM's contracts state that they are only obliged to make payments to teams that have valid entry rights recognised by the FIA (otherwise the team effectively doesn't exist).

Could we be in danger of them not being allowed to race in Malaysia, if they do not give sufficient reason for essentially DNPing the whole weekend.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 15 Mar 2015, 07:22

gnrpoison wrote:Could we be in danger of them not being allowed to race in Malaysia, if they do not give sufficient reason for essentially DNPing the whole weekend.

I think them not being sure the car will complete any laps at all qualifies as a sufficient reason.

rachel1990 · Post by **rachel1990** » 15 Mar 2015, 08:10

So with Bottas unable to compete in Australia where does that leave Malaysia- Will his back muscles heal in 2 weeks or will they dare put Wolff in the car....

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 15 Mar 2015, 08:37

rachel1990 wrote:So with Bottas unable to compete in Australia where does that leave Malaysia- Will his back muscles heal in 2 weeks or will they dare put Wolff in the car....

(Chant-starting tone) Lynn! Lynn! Lynn! Lynn!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 15 Mar 2015, 10:11

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
rachel1990 wrote:So with Bottas unable to compete in Australia where does that leave Malaysia- Will his back muscles heal in 2 weeks or will they dare put Wolff in the car....

(Chant-starting tone) Lynn! Lynn! Lynn! Lynn!

(Inevitably from me) Wolff! Wolff! Wolff! Wolff!

Post by **mario** » 15 Mar 2015, 11:19

gnrpoison wrote:
Technically, teams cannot miss any races during a season (except for reasons of "force majeure"). Whilst FOM's contract reportedly allows a team to miss up to three races per season and still qualify for payment, the teams also have separate contractual obligations with the FIA for their entry rights.

Under that contract, the FIA has the right to strip a team of its entry rights if they miss a single race - that was why, in the final races in 2014, the stewards for those races stated that they were referring Caterham and Marussia's absence to the FIA. Although Manor entered this race, because they have failed to compete in any of the sessions, the FIA has instructed Manor to appear before the stewards to justify their absence - so Manor are in trouble with the FIA at least.

Although the FIA hasn't exercised its power to strip a team of its licence recently, if the FIA were theoretically to revoke the entry rights of a team, that team would also lose its rights to any prize funds - because as soon as a team has its entry rights revoked, it effectively ceases to be a team, and FOM's contracts state that they are only obliged to make payments to teams that have valid entry rights recognised by the FIA (otherwise the team effectively doesn't exist).

Could we be in danger of them not being allowed to race in Malaysia, if they do not give sufficient reason for essentially DNPing the whole weekend.

Well, the FIA have now confirmed that they feel satisfied that Manor made every reasonable effort possible to compete in Australia and will therefore take no further action against them, so at least that threat has been lifted. http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2015/03/15/m ... g-no-show/

The good news from Adam Cooper is that Arrivabene appears to believe that Manor will be able to compete in Malaysia, so it sounds as if they should soon have access to the software required to start the cars up.

dr-baker wrote:
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
rachel1990 wrote:So with Bottas unable to compete in Australia where does that leave Malaysia- Will his back muscles heal in 2 weeks or will they dare put Wolff in the car....

(Chant-starting tone) Lynn! Lynn! Lynn! Lynn!

(Inevitably from me) Wolff! Wolff! Wolff! Wolff!

I would expect Bottas to return to the cockpit in Malaysia, so the question is unlikely to arise.

However, it's not entirely clear which of those drivers would be Williams's designated reserve driver - Wolff is a designated test driver and Lynn a development driver (roles that do seem to overlap somewhat) - or if Williams even has an official reserve driver.

I also wouldn't be surprised if, in the circumstances, Mercedes made an offer to the team in order to give Wehrlein a one off drive, along the lines of the payments they made to Force India to let him test their car.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 15 Mar 2015, 11:31

I heard on the Finnish commentary for the race that Bottas might've actually ruptured an intervertebral disc. So it's still unsure if he can recover in time for Malaysia.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 15 Mar 2015, 11:43

Nuppiz wrote:I heard on the Finnish commentary for the race that Bottas might've actually ruptured an intervertebral disc. So it's still unsure if he can recover in time for Malaysia.

If that is the case, probably Alex Lynn will get the nod to replace him. There aren't too many alternatives if they think Lynn is still a bit too green (and honestly, I think he is, but his talent merits a shot), unless Williams want to come to some sort of agreement with Lotus over Jolyon Palmer.

Post by **mario** » 15 Mar 2015, 12:02

Salamander wrote:
Nuppiz wrote:I heard on the Finnish commentary for the race that Bottas might've actually ruptured an intervertebral disc. So it's still unsure if he can recover in time for Malaysia.

If that is the case, probably Alex Lynn will get the nod to replace him. There aren't too many alternatives if they think Lynn is still a bit too green (and honestly, I think he is, but his talent merits a shot), unless Williams want to come to some sort of agreement with Lotus over Jolyon Palmer.

Taking a look at some of the reports now coming through, perhaps I was a little hasty in thinking that Bottas would be back in the cockpit quickly.

I agree that Lynn is probably the more likely candidate out of Williams's two drivers but, as I said before, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of one of Mercedes's up and coming drivers being put forward as a candidate. I imagine that there will be some temptation for Williams to put Susie into the car for a publicity boost to make the best of a bad situation, but I'd wager that would be for the practise sessions at most.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 15 Mar 2015, 12:06

dr-baker wrote:
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
rachel1990 wrote:So with Bottas unable to compete in Australia where does that leave Malaysia- Will his back muscles heal in 2 weeks or will they dare put Wolff in the car....

(Chant-starting tone) Lynn! Lynn! Lynn! Lynn!

(Inevitably from me) Wolff! Wolff! Wolff! Wolff!

BARRICHELLO!

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 15 Mar 2015, 12:08

mario wrote:I imagine that there will be some temptation for Williams to put Susie into the car for a publicity boost to make the best of a bad situation, but I'd wager that would be for the practise sessions at most.

I don't think that would be a good idea - Williams are going to be in for a tough enough fight against Ferrari for 2nd in the WCC as it is. If Bottas can't drive in Malaysia, whoever replaces him will need all the seat time they can get so they can do as effective a job at damage limitation as possible.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 15 Mar 2015, 17:38

No Wolff no way.

Claire Williams wrote:Susie Wolff is our test driver not our reserve driver

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 15 Mar 2015, 22:32

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-b ... ubt-490864

Hmm...

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 15 Mar 2015, 22:39

Cynon wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-bull-racing-s-f1-future-in-doubt-490864

Hmm...

I do remember reading a rumour (and I do emphasise the word "rumour" here) about a month ago that Mateschitz was in talks with Audi about selling the team. This can of course mean only one thing though:

André Lotterer: 2016 World Champion

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 15 Mar 2015, 22:40

Simtek wrote:
Cynon wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-bull-racing-s-f1-future-in-doubt-490864

Hmm...

I do remember reading a rumour (and I do emphasise the word "rumour" here) about a month ago that Mateschitz was in talks with Audi about selling the team. This can of course mean only one thing though:

André Lotterer: 2016 World Champion

It would also mean Lotterer would drive an F1 car that isn't green.

watka · Post by **watka** » 15 Mar 2015, 23:39

CoopsII wrote:No Wolff no way.

Claire Williams wrote:Susie Wolff is our test driver not our reserve driver

Given the Sauber situation, I would advise Williams to look very carefully at the contracts they have given to Wolff and Lynn before choosing who gets to go in the car in the case of Bottas' absence.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 15 Mar 2015, 23:51

Forget Wolff, Lynn, et al. You need a supersub? There's only one driver to call; The Lotterer Legend! Mercedes don't have a chance against him

watka · Post by **watka** » 15 Mar 2015, 23:58

Biscione wrote:Forget Wolff, Lynn, et al. You need a supersub? There's only one driver to call; The Lotterer Legend! Mercedes don't have a chance against him

I thought Sakon "He Of The Dodgy Neck" Yamamoto was the supersub!

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 16 Mar 2015, 00:18

watka wrote:
Biscione wrote:Forget Wolff, Lynn, et al. You need a supersub? There's only one driver to call; The Lotterer Legend! Mercedes don't have a chance against him

I thought Sakon "He Of The Dodgy Neck" Yamamoto was the supersub!

I thought Roberto "The Original Supersub" Moreno was the supersub!

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 16 Mar 2015, 14:03

Biscione wrote:Forget Wolff, Lynn, et al. You need a supersub? There's only one driver to call; The Lotterer Legend! Mercedes don't have a chance against him

YES! YES! YES!

What a way to virtually guarantee victories for Williams.

MorbidelliObese · Post by **MorbidelliObese** » 16 Mar 2015, 14:27

Regarding the whole "allowed to miss 3 races thing" - I always thought this was because of the 19 race calendar, and the rules around constant participation were written around a 16 race season back when that was the standard, I seem to remember Simtek could have gotten away with missing one race in the 17-race '95 season had they been able to recover and not hit the wall completely for the same reason. Does that mean Manor could (have) miss(ed) four races this year?

Or is my memory seriously playing tricks on me?