2016 Silly Season Thread

[Dj_bereta]

So, Bottas will stay at Williams and Hulkenberg might go to WEC with Porsche. Also, I don't believe Renault is going to buy Lotus. I predict Grosjean going to Force India, alongside with Perez. Maldonado and Palmer at Lotus.

[Salamander]

I suspect that Ferrari intend to hold onto Raikkonen only as long as they need to before they can secure a driver like Bottas or Ricciardo.

Maldonado and Palmer at Lotus.

>Palmer
>In an F1 race seat

God help us.

[Nessafox]

Some dutch reader suggested Ferrari is going for Verstappen in 2017 in exchange for a free engine deal for one (or both) of the Red Bull teams.
It's only a rumour, but if Mercedes isn't too keen on giving Red Bull an engine contract, then it might make some sense, altough it could be any of the other Red Bull drivers too.

[DanielPT]

Some dutch reader suggested Ferrari is going for Verstappen in 2017 in exchange for a free engine deal for one (or both) of the Red Bull teams.
It's only a rumour, but if Mercedes isn't too keen on giving Red Bull an engine contract, then it might make some sense, altough it could be any of the other Red Bull drivers too.

If Red Bull is to become a Ferrari customer (or Mercedes for that matter) they are just making their life harder for themselves. When was the last time Ferrari gave someone engines only to suffer the ignominy of being beaten at the end season?

[DemocalypseNow]

Some dutch reader suggested Ferrari is going for Verstappen in 2017 in exchange for a free engine deal for one (or both) of the Red Bull teams.
It's only a rumour, but if Mercedes isn't too keen on giving Red Bull an engine contract, then it might make some sense, altough it could be any of the other Red Bull drivers too.

Was it F1Today, perchance? Sosef does seem to have his head in the clouds at times.

[Nessafox]

Some dutch reader suggested Ferrari is going for Verstappen in 2017 in exchange for a free engine deal for one (or both) of the Red Bull teams.
It's only a rumour, but if Mercedes isn't too keen on giving Red Bull an engine contract, then it might make some sense, altough it could be any of the other Red Bull drivers too.

Was it F1Today, perchance? Sosef does seem to have his head in the clouds at times.

No. It was just some random reader of Formule1(dutch magazine) mentioning those rumours existing, don't know where he got the rumours from but he claims they're everywhere, so they're destined to pop up anyway. But the idea seems plausible enough considering the circumstances. Of course dutch people will suggest every team is interested in Max. I doubt that Red Bull will let Max go, and i doubt Vettel will be keen on having Ricciardo as a teammate, so it could as well involve Kvyat or even Sainz or god forbid JEV. (altough i think he already cut his ties with Red Bull?)

[Miguel98]

I heard the same news from Netherlands in the Telegraaf I think, it came out that rumour.

[Ataxia]

Martin Brundle too seems to think a move for Verstappen is on the cards for 2017.

[mario]

I heard the same news from Netherlands in the Telegraaf I think, it came out that rumour.

I still can't help but feel that the story is what some Dutch publications want to see happen, not necessarily what will actually happen. Picking Verstappen would be a fundamental shift in Ferrari's philosophy when it came to selecting drivers that, even with new management in charge, I cannot see it happening: the only thing that does sound plausible is that the decision to keep Kimi does sound like something of a stop gap solution.

To a certain extent it seems that quite a few of Ferrari's proposed alternatives were not available - Williams are rumoured to have been asking Ferrari to pay a release clause for Bottas that was too big for them to stomach, and Ricciardo doesn't seem to have been a realistic prospect either given Red Bull were refusing to yield on their contract terms.

As for Hulkenberg - well, whilst it seems he was the fan favourite for the position, at the same time Ferrari have had multiple opportunities to hire Hulkenberg and have refused to hire him on every occasion, and at some point you have to wonder why it is that Ferrari keep saying no to him.

[Dan B]

I heard the same news from Netherlands in the Telegraaf I think, it came out that rumour.

As for Hulkenberg - well, whilst it seems he was the fan favourite for the position, at the same time Ferrari have had multiple opportunities to hire Hulkenberg and have refused to hire him on every occasion, and at some point you have to wonder why it is that Ferrari keep saying no to him.

Maybe because of his size? I know Ferrari isn't exactly cash strapped like Lotus or Manor but maybe they don't want to spend more on a car given the fact Hulkenberg is one of the taller drivers on the grid.

[Salamander]

I heard the same news from Netherlands in the Telegraaf I think, it came out that rumour.

As for Hulkenberg - well, whilst it seems he was the fan favourite for the position, at the same time Ferrari have had multiple opportunities to hire Hulkenberg and have refused to hire him on every occasion, and at some point you have to wonder why it is that Ferrari keep saying no to him.

Maybe because of his size? I know Ferrari isn't exactly cash strapped like Lotus or Manor but maybe they don't want to spend more on a car given the fact Hulkenberg is one of the taller drivers on the grid.

No. It's clear that, for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly, Ferrari don't believe Hulkenberg has the goods. Whether or not that is actually true is irrelevant. Given that Bottas' option expires after 2016, as does Ricciardo's contract, it just makes sense to delay the decision another year in order to get a more favourable hand.

[Iracer]

Clearly Maldonado will go to Hass who surprisingly build an amazing car and win races!!

It could happen!...

Renault quit leaving redbull & torro rosso engineless making it easier for them to exit the sport and blame it on someone else. Then Bernie jumps the sinking ship sells it all off for peanuts by christmas and is never seen again!

Silly season prediction #1

[Bobby Doorknobs]

Lotus have been in a rather unstable financial situation ever since Renault withdrew their works support, but guess what? It looks like they're coming back for real.

[UncreativeUsername37]

Lotus have been in a rather unstable financial situation ever since Renault withdrew their works support, but guess what? It looks like they're coming back for real.

Renault are buying Enstone! You know, again!

[Wallio]

I was just about to post this.

I do hope we see "Renault-Mercedes" if only for one year, that would be almost as good as BMW-Sauber-Ferrari!

[Waris]

I was just about to post this.

I do hope we see "Renault-Mercedes" if only for one year, that would be almost as good as BMW-Sauber-Ferrari!

I would go so far as to say it'd be reminiscent of Ferrari-Jaguar!

[Bobby Doorknobs]

I was just about to post this.

I do hope we see "Renault-Mercedes" if only for one year, that would be almost as good as BMW-Sauber-Ferrari!

I would go so far as to say it'd be reminiscent of Ferrari-Jaguar!

BRM-Climax, anyone?

[tBone]

I was just about to post this.

I do hope we see "Renault-Mercedes" if only for one year, that would be almost as good as BMW-Sauber-Ferrari!

I would go so far as to say it'd be reminiscent of Ferrari-Jaguar!

BRM-Climax, anyone?

Spyker-Toyota!

[mario]

Spyker-Toyota!

I am surprised that you didn't bring up Spyker-Ferrari from 2007 - as for a more historic example, you could have Matra-Ford or Lancia-Ferrari.

I suppose the most confusing might be the Ligier entries of the early 1980's, where you had Ligier running Talbot branded Matra engines.

[dr-baker]

Spyker-Toyota!

I am surprised that you didn't bring up Spyker-Ferrari from 2007 - as for a more historic example, you could have Matra-Ford or Lancia-Ferrari.

I suppose the most confusing might be the Ligier entries of the early 1980's, where you had Ligier running Talbot branded Matra engines.

Nobody seems to have mentioned McLaren-Mercedes or McLaren-Honda in this debate...

[Miguel98]

So, Force India want to keep their lineup for 2016.

[Rob Dylan]

So, Force India want to keep their lineup for 2016.

I wonder if their lineup wants to keep Force India for 2016

[mario]

So, Force India want to keep their lineup for 2016.

I wonder if their lineup wants to keep Force India for 2016

Does their current line up have much of a choice elsewhere?

We know that both Mercedes and Ferrari are already locked out for 2016 and Mercedes already have their own preferred driver, Wehrlein, lined up in the wings. Moving on, even if there was a seat at Red Bull, neither driver would stand much of a chance given the pressure to recruit from within Red Bull's own program than from outside.

Elsewhere on the grid, Massa still has a valid contract for 2016, and I would argue that his form is strong enough for him to justify his place at Williams for next year: as for Bottas, I expect him to renew his contract at Williams given it is the strongest team he could drive for at the moment.

McLaren, should they scrape themselves back up to some level of respectability, are unlikely to want either driver: I do not think that either Perez or McLaren would want to sign a new contract again, whilst we know that McLaren have dismissed Hulkenberg as being overrated in the past. McLaren are also pretty spoiled for choice - Button and Alonso makes for a strong driver line up and Vandoorne is putting in a strong case for himself: even Magnussen could yet make it back into the team.

The best choices that Perez and Hulkenberg therefore seem to have right now would be either Lotus or Force India. Now, the Lotus option would depend heavily on whether or not Renault did buy into the team given their precarious finances, although there have been a few whispers from the more speculative edges of the press that suggest Renault might, if they go through with the deal, consider replacing Maldonado with Perez.

If Lotus were to become a Renault works team again, maybe it would be a better team to go with, although that depends on whether Renault can make any progress with their power unit. Otherwise, between Lotus and Force India, there is not a huge amount in it either way and, out of the two, I would say that Force India is probably the slightly more competitive outfit and therefore probably the best option that either driver can hope for if they want to stay in the sport.

[AndreaModa]

The only thing that will change at Force India in 2016 is if Hulkenberg decides he isn't content with pootling round for the odd 4th or 5th place on a good day. At which point he'll go to the WEC and they'll hire someone with a bit of budget.

[Dj_bereta]

I believe Hulk will move to WEC with Porsche. The top teams don't have a real interest in him (Mercedes is adamant to keep their drivers and Alonso is a option. Ferrari want Bottas or Ricciardo. Red Bull want to keep their drivers and Verstappen jr is the next driver). So, the only option for Hulk is Renault either buying Lotus or Force India and hire him. Otherwise, he will drive for an average team for the rest of his career.

[flattyre]

Spyker-Toyota!

I am surprised that you didn't bring up Spyker-Ferrari from 2007 - as for a more historic example, you could have Matra-Ford or Lancia-Ferrari.

I suppose the most confusing might be the Ligier entries of the early 1980's, where you had Ligier running Talbot branded Matra engines.

Nobody seems to have mentioned McLaren-Mercedes or McLaren-Honda in this debate...

That's because, if Renault buy into Lotus but still keep the old name and engine...
We may well have a Lotus-Renault-Mercedes on the grid next year!

[dr-baker]

Spyker-Toyota!

I am surprised that you didn't bring up Spyker-Ferrari from 2007 - as for a more historic example, you could have Matra-Ford or Lancia-Ferrari.

I suppose the most confusing might be the Ligier entries of the early 1980's, where you had Ligier running Talbot branded Matra engines.

Nobody seems to have mentioned McLaren-Mercedes or McLaren-Honda in this debate...

That's because, if Renault buy into Lotus but still keep the old name and engine...
We may well have a Lotus-Renault-Mercedes on the grid next year!

McLaren:

Honda:


Although a triple-barrel name of Lotus-Renault-Mercedes beats a double-barrel...

[golic_2004]

Well we all know now where Hulkenberg is going...or staying

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hulke ... /?v=11&s=1

[dr-baker]

Well we all know now where Hulkenberg is going...or staying

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hulke ... /?v=11&s=1

Well, I hope the Force is with him...

[DemocalypseNow]

And with that, the driver market is, on the face of it, mostly locked in.

Mercedes are contractually locked-in and have been for some time, with little reason to cast Rosberg aside. The only exception would be the German asking to be freed from his contract to find employment elsewhere, but given there is no gap in the market at a top team for him to drop into, this is extremely unlikely.

Given the recent announcement of Raikkonen's one year extension, this means Ferrari are also locked-in for the year ahead. As a consequence of this, Valtteri Bottas' only opportunity to leave (a bigger team buying out the extension option on his Williams contract) is gone, and so the announcement of his extension with Williams alongside the contractually bound Massa for next year is a mere formality.

With a year left on his current deal, and no other heavy hitters looking to buy out his Red Bull deal, Ricciardo is set for another year with RBR, and Daniil Kvyat has picked up his game sufficiently in recent races to earn a contract extension. Given the inexperience of the two current STR drivers, and that neither currently employed RBR driver is seeking to depart, there is little incentive for the team to drop Kvyat at this particular juncture.

With Hulkenberg now set in stone at Force India, they are also ready to for 2016, as the contract Sergio Perez penned late in 2014 was a "multi-year deal". It was never publicly specified how many years, but given it was made public knowledge that it was longer than a single year, that at least puts him at FI for 2016, if not 2017.

The Lotus situation is an interesting one, as the outcome depends heavily on the resolution of buyout talks from Renault. Both current drivers have valid contracts for next season, and yet one of the two looks at risk, depending on how the current ownership saga pans out. If the buyout plans succeed, then Romain Grosjean can bank on his contract being honoured, while Maldonado may have a harder time convincing his new bosses not to cut him loose. Conversely, if talks fall through for acquisition of the team, then Genii will be as dependent as ever on Maldonado's money, and thus Grosjean might face the chop in favour of a well sponsored goon if reports of their financial woe hold true.

At Scuderia Toro Rosso, Verstappen is locked in for next season. They are not really part of the driver market eco-system, in the sense that Carlos Sainz Jr being dropped would only mean another young Red Bull backed candidate would be promoted from junior formulae. Given that neither Pierre Gasly or Dean Stoneman have emphatically imposed themselves upon their respective champions this season, as seems to be the minimum expectation of an RB Junior graduate, they may give Sainz Jr another season.

Sauber have eliminated themselves from the driver market, in theory at least. Nasr and Ericsson stick around, given their need for financial backing from their drivers. Ericsson may not be secure if another driver comes along with substantially more money, but this is merely hypothetical for the moment. Even so, they would have little impact on the market eco-system, as such a driver would not be forcibly poached from a rival.

And so we arrive at the two real difference makers. McLaren in theory have Alonso locked in for another year, but with Fernando, who knows what he might try to get up to? But let's assume he's a good boy this time, and McLaren only have a single seat up for grabs. Awkwaaaaaaaard. With Magnussen showing signs of impatience, he will be expecting to have his race seat back next season, but with Button still in the way, and looked favourably upon by works partner Honda, plus Stoffel Vandoorne's emphatic form in GP2 this season, McLaren have too many cooks in the kitchen. Given the only situation where a works team seat would be available elsewhere is still uncertain and far from guaranteed (Renault buying back Enstone and dropping Maldonado), talk of a cushty WEC salary grows stronger. One of Magnussen or Vandoorne is going to end up on the sidelines and be justifiably livid about it.

And the last real unknown, with influence on the market; Haas. They have this much talked about shortlist, but at the same time have dropped a handful of comments about how they would be willing to try and sweep up an experienced driver who had been released from their contract at another team. At the moment, the only driver likely to fit such a criteria would be Button, who may prefer WEC to such a high-risk gamble as Haas. Esteban Gutierrez and his ample financial backing plus Ferrari ties ticks off the second seat with ease, the only remaining question is which junior programme reject they go for - Red Bull's JEV or, potentially, McLaren's Magnussen? It's too hard to judge from the outside. Pure logic dictates that the extremely close ties between Ferrari and Haas put JEV in pole position, but it's really anyone's guess how the situation may pan out.

Finally, Manor, we do hope they continue into next season. Their drivers may as well be picked out of a hat though. Can Stevens scrape together enough cash to continue into 2016? Will Merhi continue at the team despite lacking financial clout? It seems pointless to speculate on their silly season, as they will likely be the last team to announce their line-up, and won't be competing with other teams on the grid for a driver's signature. They have no influence in the driver market eco-system.

And so, we are left with the following theoretical in/out changes within the sport;
OUT
Jenson Button (McLaren > WEC)
Kevin Magnussen (McLaren > Indy?)

IN
Esteban Gutierrez (Ferrari TD > Haas)
Jean-Eric Vergne (Ferrari TD > Haas)
Stoffel Vandoorne (GP2 > McLaren)

In such a situation, you must feel sorry for Kevin Magnussen. He performed admirably in his single year with a sub-par McLaren, and yet it seems like he will be driven out of the sport for no reason other than market forces being at play. He is an outsider peering in at this point simply thanks to Vandoorne's incredible form in GP2, which would be hard for any team to ignore, while he would essentially be doorstepping Haas when JEV is the best positioned candidate.

In my proposed alternate series of events, one where the Lotus buy-out is a success, they would look to sign Button on a multi-year deal to partner Grosjean, and so Maldonado becomes a well-funded alternative to midfield teams. Perhaps Sauber may become interested and look to extricate Ericsson from his contract - given their relative exposure of the cars, it seems safe to assume Nasr's Banco do Brasil sponsorship is worth more to the team than Ericsson's Silanna backing. However, this is also merely logical deduction from a purely hypothetical trigger event. There are a number of ways this market could play out, but most potential sequences of events can be easily mapped out.

2017 on the other hand? With so may influential drivers having contract exit points at the end of next season, 2017's driver market will be a truly silly season indeed.

[Izzyeviel]

Nevermind all that, that's boring.

What we want to know, and really want to know is: who will be driving the Manor's/Haas cars next year?

?

[dr-baker]

Nevermind all that, that's boring.

What we want to know, and really want to know is: who will be driving the Manor's/Haas cars next year?

?

HWNSNBM, Max Chilton, Danica Patrick and Susie Wolff.

[golic_2004]

Nevermind all that, that's boring.

What we want to know, and really want to know is: who will be driving the Manor's/Haas cars next year?

?

HWNSNBM, Max Chilton, Danica Patrick and Susie Wolff.

God I hope so; Probably not; Definitely not as she will be in Haas's other car; And likely not.

[Klon]

Conversely, if talks fall through for acquisition of the team, then Genii will be as dependent as ever on Maldonado's money, and thus Grosjean might face the chop in favour of a well sponsored goon if reports of their financial woe hold true.

You have to remember that Grosjean is rumoured to bring in a very healthy sum in form of Total sponsorship. Whether, especially with the new superlicense rules, a more resourceful driver can even be acquired is a question worth asking.

[AndreaModa]

Conversely, if talks fall through for acquisition of the team, then Genii will be as dependent as ever on Maldonado's money, and thus Grosjean might face the chop in favour of a well sponsored goon if reports of their financial woe hold true.

You have to remember that Grosjean is rumoured to bring in a very healthy sum in form of Total sponsorship. Whether, especially with the new superlicense rules, a more resourceful driver can even be acquired is a question worth asking.

I think it's less than it used to be Klon. Just look at the Total branding on the car compared to previous years. If the amount is still the same, what are Total getting for their investment?

[dr-baker]

Nevermind all that, that's boring.

What we want to know, and really want to know is: who will be driving the Manor's/Haas cars next year?

?

HWNSNBM, Max Chilton, Danica Patrick and Susie Wolff.

God I hope so; Probably not; Definitely not as she will be in Haas's other car; And likely not.

I know any of these have a chance approximately the square root of minus zero, but there you go.

Conversely, if talks fall through for acquisition of the team, then Genii will be as dependent as ever on Maldonado's money, and thus Grosjean might face the chop in favour of a well sponsored goon if reports of their financial woe hold true.

You have to remember that Grosjean is rumoured to bring in a very healthy sum in form of Total sponsorship. Whether, especially with the new superlicense rules, a more resourceful driver can even be acquired is a question worth asking.

I think it's less than it used to be Klon. Just look at the Total branding on the car compared to previous years. If the amount is still the same, what are Total getting for their investment?

But if Lotus are being supplied with their fuel and lubricants for free/heavily discounted as a result of employing Grosjean, then this is still worthwhile for Lotus to pursue?

[mario]

Nevermind all that, that's boring.

What we want to know, and really want to know is: who will be driving the Manor's/Haas cars next year?

?

Whilst you jest, the situation at Manor could actually be fairly interesting.

There are some parties who are adamant that Manor will be using Honda engines next year and effectively become a "B-team" for McLaren, although it is hardly the first time that such allegations have been made (they made similar suggestions when McLaren agreed to sell its transmission to them a few years ago).

If that were the case - and it is a bit if - then McLaren could make the decision to farm Magnussen and Vandoorne out to Manor instead: we know that Magnussen was originally going to be farmed out to another team (which some suggested was Force India, although the link was never proven), so it would not be out of character for McLaren to do that.

Whilst it would probably be something of a disappointment for both drivers to be placed in a backmarker team rather than the works team, it would give them an opportunity to develop their skills in a low pressure environment (both Perez and Magnussen felt that perhaps they lacked the mental preparation for making the step up to a major team at an early stage in their careers).

From Manor's point of view, such a deal could give them two talented drivers to work with, and they would probably have a chunk of cash from McLaren to help sweeten the deal as well - the only problem is that they would also have to take Honda's power unit too, which would hardly help them if it remained as uncompetitive as it is now.

[girry]

I would love a KMag-Stoffel battle at Manor-Honda.

I would hate to see Stevens out. I mean the guy (and Merhi, but he has been soundly beaten by Will) is one of the very, very few examples in last ten years of making his way up to F1 without significant backing from either a junior program, major sponsors or personal investors - and is doing the most of his opportunity

[WeirdKerr]

Nigel Mansell still hasn't officially retired.... just saying.... (he is about as likely to get a drive as finding some gold on a train in a Polish tunnel....(sssshhh don't tell the Belgians but im hiding there too))

[Backmarker]

If the super license rules weren't in place, Jordan King would be at Manor next season. With the rules, I wonder how long his father will back Manor if it doesn't look like his son will earn enough points to ever drive in F1.