2016 Silly Season Thread

Post by **mario** » 10 Feb 2016, 19:23

Ataxia wrote:I'm sure my sitting-on-the-fence antics are getting tiresome, but let's give the lad a chance yeah? Of course, he's an unknown quantity and if this was 5 years ago I'd be agreeing with Miguel about the virtues of Christian Vietoris, but Wehrlein does seem to have a lot of potential.

Considering Mercedes have two of the best drivers on the grid and the data to compare them to Wehrlein, they must see something there too...

It's a statement of intent from Manor, and although I hope Rossi bags the other seat I believe it'll probably go Haryanto's way.

In this case, it does seem that a number of people are taking a somewhat cautious approach to the news, and likewise I am a little ambivalent about the deal.

I would be inclined to agree with Collieafc, along with other posters, in that Wehrlein is certainly not a bad driver for Manor to have chosen. He performed respectably when he drove for Mercedes and Force India in pre-season testing last year and, as Backmarker says, he also did fairly well when he raced in Formula 3 back in 2012.

That said, it has been a few years since he last raced open wheeled cars at a competitive level - he last raced in Formula 3 at the beginning of 2013 - and Wehrlein was helped to the DTM title by the influence of Mercedes. I am therefore inclined to agree with Backmarker's comment that Wehrlein is probably a fairly safe and dependable driver for Manor who is likely to perform fairly well, if not outstandingly so - which, in all honesty, is still a fairly positive situation for them.

Still, in some ways I wonder if Mercedes might have been better off if they had placed Ocon at Manor and Wehrlein at Renault instead...

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 11 Feb 2016, 10:29

It seems that the big benefit to Manor for taking Peewee is not free/reduced cost engines, but access to Mercedes' wind tunnel. If Manor have the ability to pay for Mercedes engines anyway, then access to the wind tunnel is probably far more valuable to them going forward, as the chassis has always been Virgin/Marussia/Manor's weakest point. Though I do miss Nick Wirth designing a chassis in blender and then finding out the fuel tank is too small

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 12 Feb 2016, 22:56

Backmarker wrote:It seems that the big benefit to Manor for taking Peewee is not free/reduced cost engines, but access to Mercedes' wind tunnel. If Manor have the ability to pay for Mercedes engines anyway, then access to the wind tunnel is probably far more valuable to them going forward, as the chassis has always been Virgin/Marussia/Manor's weakest point. Though I do miss Nick Wirth designing a chassis in blender and then finding out the fuel tank is too small

I seem to remember reading the windtunnel deal was independent from the Wehrlein deal or was that publicocrap?

Post by **mario** » 13 Feb 2016, 18:50

Waris wrote:
Backmarker wrote:It seems that the big benefit to Manor for taking Peewee is not free/reduced cost engines, but access to Mercedes' wind tunnel. If Manor have the ability to pay for Mercedes engines anyway, then access to the wind tunnel is probably far more valuable to them going forward, as the chassis has always been Virgin/Marussia/Manor's weakest point. Though I do miss Nick Wirth designing a chassis in blender and then finding out the fuel tank is too small

I seem to remember reading the windtunnel deal was independent from the Wehrlein deal or was that publicocrap?

I believe that negotiations over the use of Mercedes's windtunnel started before the talks with Wehrlein did, as I think that the talks were tied into the engine supply talks. However, I suspect that the two topics would have fused together as time went on, perhaps in part because Mercedes might have looked to use Manor in the same way that Ferrari appear to have used Haas as a way of bending the limits on windtunnel testing.

AxelP800 · Post by **AxelP800** » 14 Feb 2016, 07:22

Found a footage of someone doing a lap of Baku: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UytNOt6i9cE

parts in 1:20 to 1-28, holy that's so tight, and some parts also have cobblestone road. The scenery looks good. But in the name of F1, I don't have much hope in cobblestone surface

Post by **mario** » 14 Feb 2016, 16:32

AxelP800 wrote:Found a footage of someone doing a lap of Baku: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UytNOt6i9cE

parts in 1:20 to 1-28, holy that's so tight, and some parts also have cobblestone road. The scenery looks good. But in the name of F1, I don't have much hope in cobblestone surface

Apparently, the cobblestone surface will be temporarily covered with tarmac to create a smooth surface, in much the same way that the cobblestones around Les Invalides are being temporarily resurfaced in order to hold the Formula E race. That should, at least, remove that particular issue from the circuit.

AxelP800 · Post by **AxelP800** » 18 Feb 2016, 13:18

You must have known how happy am I right now

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 18 Feb 2016, 14:36

AxelP800 wrote:You must have known how happy am I right now

I wonder if the time they took between Haryanto official announcement and the Indonesian government letter was due to negotiate Haryanto's superlicense with FIA.

EDIT: Apparently points will not matter this season or so some say. Either I missed it or there is nothing of the sort in the appendix L of FIA regulations that state the conditions to obtain a super license.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 18 Feb 2016, 14:56

*ROB DYLAN INTENSIFIES*
But seriously, with super license rules he's not even allowed to race, is he?

AxelP800 · Post by **AxelP800** » 18 Feb 2016, 16:09

He had driven an F1 car for 300 kms in recent years

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 18 Feb 2016, 16:11

I, for one, welcome the rise of the next Senna.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 18 Feb 2016, 16:33

DanielPT wrote:
EDIT: Apparently points will not matter ever as long as the FIA gets paid.

Fixed that for you.

AxelP800 · Post by **AxelP800** » 18 Feb 2016, 16:37

I'm cool. Having reached the age when emotions are calming down. Three words:
We shall see

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 18 Feb 2016, 16:50

DanielPT wrote:
AxelP800 wrote:You must have known how happy am I right now

I wonder if the time they took between Haryanto official announcement and the Indonesian government letter was due to negotiate Haryanto's superlicense with FIA.

EDIT: Apparently points will not matter this season or so some say. Either I missed it or there is nothing of the sort in the appendix L of FIA regulations that state the conditions to obtain a super license.

The FIA seem to have revised the rules at some point to allow for drivers who have completed 300 km in an F1 car in testing (which I believe both Haryanto and Wehrlein have achieved and was one of the criteria before the introduction of the points system) and for drivers who have demonstrated "outstanding ability in single-seater formula cars" (or to rephrase, drivers who have demonstrated outstanding wallet size in single-seater formula cars). Basically, not much seems to have change, except possibly enforcing an age limit for future Verstappens (and even then the man himself is proving this might not be as good an idea it seemed at first)

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 18 Feb 2016, 18:46

Simtek wrote:The FIA seem to have revised the rules at some point to allow for drivers who have completed 300 km in an F1 car in testing (which I believe both Haryanto and Wehrlein have achieved and was one of the criteria before the introduction of the points system) and for drivers who have demonstrated "outstanding ability in single-seater formula cars" (or to rephrase, drivers who have demonstrated outstanding wallet size in single-seater formula cars). Basically, not much seems to have change, except possibly enforcing an age limit for future Verstappens (and even then the man himself is proving this might not be as good an idea it seemed at first)

Hummm... That is not the way I interpret the annex L. From the way I see it, driver must respect points 5.1.1 (Holder of Grade A International Licence), 5.1.2 (valid driving Licence), 5.1.3 (18 years old at the first race weekend), 5.1.4 ( a) do a question session about FIA International Sporting Code and F1 Sporting Regulations when applying for the first time or when applying under 5.1.7 b) or c) and b) some stuff about briefings given by teams on both codes stated previously ), 5.1.5 (having completed 80% of two full seasons in any championships in a supplement to the annex), 5.1.6 (that 300 Km in F1 testing) and 5.1.7, which means all included. Regarding this 5.1.7, he can then apply with one of the conditions:
- 40 points during the 3 year preceding his application (championships and points table is in supplement 1);
- Having been granted a super licence (excluding Free Practice OnlySuper Licence) in any of the previous 3 seasons;
- Have been granted a Super Licence prior to the previous 3 seasons which in that case FIA will judge case by case;
- Formula E champion.

Now, nothing in here nor in supplement 1 says anything about exemption in the first season that these rules are instated. And I am not aware of Ryo Haryanto previously having a Super Licence and FIA saying that they are instating the rules that, well, are to be disregarded anyway in the first year.

Meatwad · Post by **Meatwad** » 18 Feb 2016, 20:27

The super license point system wasn't going to work anyway. If it had been introduced as such without exemptions, the backmarker (and potentially mid-grid) teams would have been in trouble, as very few drivers who have enough super license points have notable amounts of money to bring to the teams.

As for Haryanto, I would have preferred to see Rossi, but I don't think he will be an embarrassment to F1. I expect him to perform at about the same level as Stevens and Merhi. In GP3, he used to have some impressive drives including that wet race where he beat Bottas on merit.

Post by **Ataxia** » 18 Feb 2016, 20:33

I'm not particularly surprised, it's been apparent in the coming weeks that Haryanto would be given the nod. He certainly presents a step up from Will Stevens, who was about as noteworthy as tin of beans.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 19 Feb 2016, 12:42

Ataxia wrote: who was about as noteworthy as tin of beans.

I can hit a lot of notes after eating a tin of beans.

Beans, Beans, the musical fruit,
The more you eat, etc. etc.

Post by **Ataxia** » 19 Feb 2016, 13:19

dr-baker wrote:
Ataxia wrote: who was about as noteworthy as tin of beans.

I can hit a lot of notes after eating a tin of beans.

Beans, Beans, the musical fruit,
The more you eat, etc. etc.

That...isn't something I wanted to know.

Anyway, we have the Ferrari SF16-H on show! They've gone for a 312T2 vibe with the livery...

The sidepods look tiny, and they've thrown their lot in with the stubby nose. It's quite pretty, I think.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 19 Feb 2016, 14:05

Yuck. I don't know what it is about the Ferrari, but particularly the nose has since 2014 looked bathpluggly to me, whilst other teams have done better at hiding it.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 19 Feb 2016, 14:30

Tears of joy everyone! BMS Scuderia Italia are back in the frame! :dance:

And boy do they look handsome!

Post by **Londoner** » 23 Feb 2016, 19:13

Breaking news - F1's going to be emulating Burnout Revenge, with a new qualifying system for this season....

My reaction?

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 23 Feb 2016, 19:25

Public request to Biscione: Could you add Psyduck to the smilies panel? Because this :facepalm:

just isn't enough.

Post by **Ataxia** » 23 Feb 2016, 19:40

This is the bit where I go "give it a chance, it's not even happened yet, it might be fun," etc.

So yeah, give it a chance.

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 23 Feb 2016, 19:55

So apparently there is a period where every 90 seconds the slowest gets dropped over and over, meaning no one can sit in the garage and have to go flat out all the time... Yet in the race we'll have team orders, drivers fuel saving and the tyres that don't encourage pushing... This could get interesting

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 23 Feb 2016, 20:49

Ataxia wrote:This is the bit where I go "give it a chance, it's not even happened yet, it might be fun," etc.

So yeah, give it a chance.

Too bloody right. Every f***ing F1 fan I've seen comment on this new proposal has hammered it. Sad day to be an F1 fan. Grow up and give it a chance for Christ sake.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 23 Feb 2016, 21:24

AndreaModa wrote:
Ataxia wrote:This is the bit where I go "give it a chance, it's not even happened yet, it might be fun," etc.

So yeah, give it a chance.

Too bloody right. Every f***ing F1 fan I've seen comment on this new proposal has hammered it. Sad day to be an F1 fan. Grow up and give it a chance for Christ sake.

"It's probably going to suck": yes
"It sucks": we don't know

girry · Post by **girry** » 23 Feb 2016, 21:43

I think it's gonna too complicated, unnecessary and will make the qualifying sessions more random but i'll give it a chance because I can't quite envision yet how it will work in practise.

@AndreaModa: it's my understanding that most the backlash on the format doesn't actually stem from that they hate the new rules, but the frustration over that it represents how F1 is on a completely different page than its fans: while there's a list of 100 things wrong about F1, the ONLY thing they come up and can agree with is changing something that the fans were content with..

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 23 Feb 2016, 21:52

giraurd wrote:@AndreaModa: it's my understanding that most the backlash on the format doesn't actually stem from that they hate the new rules, but the frustration over that it represents how F1 is on a completely different page than its fans: while there's a list of 100 things wrong about F1, the ONLY thing they come up and can agree with is changing something that the fans were content with..

That pretty much sums it up for me.

That said, it still has to go to the World Motorsport Council before anything is truly confirmed.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 23 Feb 2016, 22:20

The reason I'm pissed is because everyone is so damn negative about anything new in F1 these days. There's no positivity whatsoever, regardless of what the proposal might be.

On the topic of the new qualifying format, I think they could do without the separation into Q1, Q2 and Q3 as that makes it more complicated, better to have just one single large session, but nonetheless it's an interesting, exciting new take on qualifying without introducing any bullshit like reverse grids or double points.

AustralianStig · Post by **AustralianStig** » 23 Feb 2016, 22:21

AndreaModa wrote:but nonetheless it's an interesting, exciting new take on qualifying without introducing any bullshit like reverse grids or double points.

Or qualifying races...

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 23 Feb 2016, 23:11

AustralianStig wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:but nonetheless it's an interesting, exciting new take on qualifying without introducing any bullshit like reverse grids or double points.

Or qualifying races...

Exactly! God help all the moaners if F1 were completely sorted and perfect. What would you all moan about then? The weather?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 23 Feb 2016, 23:41

giraurd wrote:I think it's gonna too complicated, unnecessary and will make the qualifying sessions more random but i'll give it a chance because I can't quite envision yet how it will work in practise.

@AndreaModa: it's my understanding that most the backlash on the format doesn't actually stem from that they hate the new rules, but the frustration over that it represents how F1 is on a completely different page than its fans: while there's a list of 100 things wrong about F1, the ONLY thing they come up and can agree with is changing something that the fans were content with..

Pretty much my response. I've never heard anyone complain about the knockout qualifying format, it's probably the only aspect of F1 that can boast this fact.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 24 Feb 2016, 00:02

FullMetalJack wrote:I've never heard anyone complain about the knockout qualifying format, it's probably the only aspect of F1 that can boast this fact.

Well, it's a lot more artificial and arbitrary than just having one hour to set a time....

Izzyeviel · Post by **Izzyeviel** » 24 Feb 2016, 03:23

FullMetalJack wrote:
giraurd wrote:I think it's gonna too complicated, unnecessary and will make the qualifying sessions more random but i'll give it a chance because I can't quite envision yet how it will work in practise.

@AndreaModa: it's my understanding that most the backlash on the format doesn't actually stem from that they hate the new rules, but the frustration over that it represents how F1 is on a completely different page than its fans: while there's a list of 100 things wrong about F1, the ONLY thing they come up and can agree with is changing something that the fans were content with..

Pretty much my response. I've never heard anyone complain about the knockout qualifying format, it's probably the only aspect of F1 that can boast this fact.

Lots of people and even commentators complain about lack of cars on track at certain times - this is meant to rectify this. Although I agree with what you are saying.

AxelP800 · Post by **AxelP800** » 24 Feb 2016, 07:18

The positive thing I found from the new qualifying is when the circuit is rain or rain-dry-rain-dry-rain, that could be sooooo fun

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 24 Feb 2016, 07:49

I mean qualifying is kind of fine but gets a little predicable due to the strength of the cars. Should be some good viewing.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 24 Feb 2016, 10:52

I am not convinced about this Qualifying format, sounds far too complicated. I was completely fine with the previous format, but I guess everyone will have to wait and see as to how this will work

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 24 Feb 2016, 11:01

I'll give it a chance, I'm just not convinced Qualifying was such a massive issue that needed changing but what do I know?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 24 Feb 2016, 11:30

I complained about the lack of cars in certain parts of qualifying (Q3 mostly), even in the old format something should've been done about that and hopefully this will address this issue in some way, although I suspect that in Q3 some teams will not mind being eliminated, specially those who would prefer to save a set of the softer tyres, if none of this type had been reserved by Pirelli for the race. Regardless I am looking forward to see how this will work out as it is not a major dumb reform on needless stuff. It is just a needed tweak and people should not jump on it.

Usually, I would also say that the separation in Q1, Q2 and Q3 are then made redundant, but I can understand that this is a friendlier TV format as it allows advertisement breaks without missing any part of the action and I understand why it remains.