Ponderbox

The place for speaking your mind on current goings-on in F1
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novitopoli
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by novitopoli »

East Londoner wrote:Having rewatched Spa 1998, I wonder what would the procedure be if that pile-up had happened in the last few seasons, given that spare cars are banned at present. I can't imagine the race would be restarted from the beginning with the field in single digits.


Long story short, that pileup would never happen nowadays. Drivers could risk a bit more in such circumstances (e.g., first lap at Monaco) back then as they knew a backup car was waiting for them in the pits.
Anyway, today they would have probably stopped the race for more time (even two hours, at the very most) in order to make sure as many cars as possible could have been repaired.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Meatwad »

I have been wondering about one thing for quite a long time. On what basis are incidents investigated, especially those between team mates? Hamilton and Rosberg's crash in Spa 2014 was never investigated, which I assumed was because one of the parties involved in the incident (driver or team) would have to report the incident to the stewards and naturally Mercedes wouldn't do that to one of their drivers. However, Chilton was penalized the same year for crashing into Bianchi in Canada. I really don't think Marussia reported their own driver to the stewards.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by AustralianStig »

Meatwad wrote:I have been wondering about one thing for quite a long time. On what basis are incidents investigated, especially those between team mates? Hamilton and Rosberg's crash in Spa 2014 was never investigated, which I assumed was because one of the parties involved in the incident (driver or team) would have to report the incident to the stewards and naturally Mercedes wouldn't do that to one of their drivers. However, Chilton was penalized the same year for crashing into Bianchi in Canada. I really don't think Marussia reported their own driver to the stewards.

I've also wondered this. The only thing I can presume is that some incidents the chief steward takes it upon himself to investigate and others require the teams to report. But I can also imagine that it's just the usual F1 inconsistency...
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Nuppiz »

AustralianStig wrote:
Meatwad wrote:I have been wondering about one thing for quite a long time. On what basis are incidents investigated, especially those between team mates? Hamilton and Rosberg's crash in Spa 2014 was never investigated, which I assumed was because one of the parties involved in the incident (driver or team) would have to report the incident to the stewards and naturally Mercedes wouldn't do that to one of their drivers. However, Chilton was penalized the same year for crashing into Bianchi in Canada. I really don't think Marussia reported their own driver to the stewards.

I've also wondered this. The only thing I can presume is that some incidents the chief steward takes it upon himself to investigate and others require the teams to report. But I can also imagine that it's just the usual F1 inconsistency...

Simple. Mercedes is a much bigger team and is responsible for a huge chunk of the series' revenue. The investigation alone would be a hugely publicised affair.

Meanwhile, Marussia is a minor team which few people besides us care about so they can be slapped with a penalty and nobody bats an eye.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by mario »

AustralianStig wrote:
Meatwad wrote:I have been wondering about one thing for quite a long time. On what basis are incidents investigated, especially those between team mates? Hamilton and Rosberg's crash in Spa 2014 was never investigated, which I assumed was because one of the parties involved in the incident (driver or team) would have to report the incident to the stewards and naturally Mercedes wouldn't do that to one of their drivers. However, Chilton was penalized the same year for crashing into Bianchi in Canada. I really don't think Marussia reported their own driver to the stewards.

I've also wondered this. The only thing I can presume is that some incidents the chief steward takes it upon himself to investigate and others require the teams to report. But I can also imagine that it's just the usual F1 inconsistency...

I suppose that part of the reason could be because, in the case of Hamilton and Rosberg, the consequences of the clash were not quite as high - whilst Hamilton's car was damaged, he was nevertheless able to return to the pits and to continue racing, as was Rosberg.

In the case of the collision between Bianchi and Chilton, the consequences were more severe - both drivers were taken out of the race and a significant amount of debris was thrown across the track, causing a prolonged safety car period.In that instance, it seems to be the case that, because the consequences were more severe in that situation, the stewards took it upon themselves to investigate the collision.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Aislabie »

AndreaModa wrote:If you feel that the sport is going the wrong way, then how about suggesting what you'd do instead? Because all I've seen is lots of angry people without any idea at all what they'd do if given the chance. It's like complaining for the sake of it, because that's apparently what we do now when a new rule comes out. Put up or shut up.

I read this the other day, and thought I'd do my putting up, as I'm not particularly inclined towards shutting up.

On the Race Weekend
I would personally return to straight-up single-lap qualifying, although rather than giving the winner from the previous week the advantage of a rubbered in track, why not get the drivers to set their laps in a random order? It should serve to mix the grid up a little bit (if a driver runs wide, he doesn't get a second chance) and be easy to understand for the casual F1 fan, as opposed to this weird 90-second knockout format we're currently looking at. It also means that you can see every car on the grid for an entire lap, which might be more appealing for sponsors than the current format.

As for the race itself, I wouldn't make many changes. The only thing I'd do differently is bring back re-fuelling; currently, we have bugger-all overtaking because the fastest cars are always at the front. One way of mixing things up is having genuinely varied pit strategies (and longer pit stops), and one way of ensuring that they're not always the fastest car is by making them fat with fuel. It wouldn't fix everything, but it might help.

On the whole season
Ideally, I would like to see the season pared back to sixteen Championship races, even if it means that many great circuits only host Championship Grands Prix every other year. There's nothing that says they have to be the same sixteen circuits.

I'd also quite like to see the return of non-Championship races at other Grade 1 (or 1T) circuits as testing opportunities, with teams only required to send one car (but also allowed to send as many as three) to these events. There could also be a fleet of unaffiliated cars built by lower-midfield teams for local drivers to use. These races could also be flogged to TV separately from the Championship for even greater profits!

On Bernie
Go away.

On visibility
Grands Prix need to be on free-to-air TV, and not hidden behind a pay-wall. If that means extended highlights as opposed to live coverage, than that might have to do - so long as those extended highlights are to be broadcast in primetime slots. Otherwise, find a new TV provider.

However much money F1 currently harvests from pay TV, I believe that the entire sport still makes less dosh than some top football clubs, so it could be doing better. Better visibility is more important than short-term money-grabbing.

On tech and regs and things I don't fully understand
If F1 has to move towards being a spec-chassis series (and really, the regulations are so restrictive that we're not so far away already) in order to promote overtaking, then so be it. Or, provide much more relaxed regulations, but a tight budget cap so that teams can use mass dampers and double diffusers and all of those other controversial things - but can't afford to do them all at once. Of course, the only way for this to happen is if it were run by a committee of people with no vested interests - who do not have a financial stake in any team, or in the sport itself; there's no way that Ferrari and the rest of the turkeys will vote for Christmas.

Stricter budget caps or spec chassis should both make it easier for new teams to enter Formula One, which is something I'd like to see. Grid sizes of about 30 shouldn't be unmanageable with a but of planning.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by solarcold »

It has been a long time and I doubt anybody remembers me, but I'm back. More than a year ago I left to serve for Russian Army, returned in October and thought this forum was dead. I'm so glad this isn't the case!
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

solarcold wrote:It has been a long time and I doubt anybody remembers me, but I'm back. More than a year ago I left to serve for Russian Army, returned in October and thought this forum was dead. I'm so glad this isn't the case!

I remember you. Good to see you're still alive. Welcome back, good sir!
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Re: Ponderbox

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solarcold wrote:It has been a long time and I doubt anybody remembers me, but I'm back. More than a year ago I left to serve for Russian Army, returned in October and thought this forum was dead. I'm so glad this isn't the case!

Why, you slimy, double-crossing, no-good swindler. You got a lot of guts coming here, after what you pulled... ;)
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by solarcold »

Thank you both! ;)

CoopsII wrote:
solarcold wrote:Hey guys, I really didn't know where to post this, so I've chosen this pretty neutral thread. I'm leaving to army for a year this Monday, so wish me luck! I'm looking forward to swallowing the 2015 season recordings when I return.

Right. Now he's gone, let's all talk about him behind his back....


Ooh youu.... :)

Everything went fine. I wasn't bullied and I didn't invade anyone. Even though army in such a country is one of the least enjoyable places possible, I've even had some fun, mostly because I was involved with military orchestra playing tuba, though still undergoing all the army routines like the rest of guys.

All in all, I was extremely lucky. The bad stories you've heard did not appear from nowhere, but in my particular case, they did not apply.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by RonDenisDeletraz »

Welcome back, this new forum still has the traditional unreliability of the old one
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by DanielPT »

Welcome back! Glad everything went fine! For us in the rest of Europe that is. ;)
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by dinizintheoven »

Privyet once more, solarcold! Glad to hear nothing untoward happened. Slava!

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Re: Ponderbox

Post by mario »

solarcold wrote:It has been a long time and I doubt anybody remembers me, but I'm back. More than a year ago I left to serve for Russian Army, returned in October and thought this forum was dead. I'm so glad this isn't the case!

And a welcome return it is as well - glad to see that things probably went about as well as it could have done.

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:Welcome back, this new forum still has the traditional unreliability of the old one

Are you talking about the forum or the people here?
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by tommykl »

dinizintheoven wrote:Privyet once more, solarcold! Glad to hear nothing untoward happened. Slava!

(...and other Russian words that I picked up from Polandball and dodgy Russian black metal albums...)

And I'll cap that off with a hearty cyka blyat :P
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

In May of 2014, it became a reality. In July, it was delayed to this year, but it would not suffer the same fate as Port Imperial. As they prepared, time and F1 went on. Hamilton won another championship. Stevens and Merhi had their careers. A qualifying system came and went. And we still don't know what everyone is going to call the Baku European Grand Prix of Azerbaijan.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by dinizintheoven »

How about "Head For The Hills!"?
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by WeirdKerr »

I cannot think of another race where a driver has benefited from a safety car period/red flag brought out by his team mates crash.....
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by MorbidelliObese »

WeirdKerr wrote:I cannot think of another race where a driver has benefited from a safety car period/red flag brought out by his team mates crash.....


I see what you did there.

And by that I mean I spent approximately 4 or 5 seconds scanning my memory banks for a historical example to bring up so I could be the smart-arse, before subsequently seeing what you did there.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by AustralianStig »

WeirdKerr wrote:I cannot think of another race where a driver has benefited from a safety car period/red flag brought out by his team mates crash.....

Bottas managed to benefit from his OWN safety car in Australia 2014!
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Aguaman »

WeirdKerr wrote:I cannot think of another race where a driver has benefited from a safety car period/red flag brought out by his team mates crash.....


Singapore 2008?
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

Aguaman wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:I cannot think of another race where a driver has benefited from a safety car period/red flag brought out by his team mates crash.....


Singapore 2008?

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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Rob Dylan »

Simtek wrote:Image

*internet implodes*
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by dr-baker »

I wonder whether there may have been more on-track action during Australia's qualifying session, pole had been the first position to be tied down, and every 90 seconds, the fastest driver was eliminated and had his position at the front set?
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by watka »

dr-baker wrote:I wonder whether there may have been more on-track action during Australia's qualifying session, pole had been the first position to be tied down, and every 90 seconds, the fastest driver was eliminated and had his position at the front set?


I'd imagine it would be worse. We'd still have the same scenario of 3 positions being settled at once due to the time it takes to do an in-lap, pit, and an out-lap. Then the other drivers would be far less inclined to go out knowing the top positions were locked and having limited scope to move up the grid. It might have shaken up the grid a bit - e.g. Rosberg might have had to start from 4th because of his 1st attempt being slow, but it would have meant less on-track action.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Wallio »

Haas' debut has been compared to Toyota's. And with the way we hand out points all wily-nilly now, they are roughly about equal. But which one is more impressive?

Toyota spent the whole year prior testing, after having to redesign their engine (allegedly) While Haas is running a Torro Ferrari...... Both did roughly 3+years of planning. Both used multiple bases in multiple countries.

Not much to pick between the two. I honestly have no idea which is better. I hope Haas doesn't end up the bloated, overrated, high 9-figure per year, committee run field fillers that Toyota were.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Londoner »

Wallio wrote:Haas' debut has been compared to Toyota's. And with the way we hand out points all wily-nilly now, they are roughly about equal. But which one is more impressive?

Toyota spent the whole year prior testing, after having to redesign their engine (allegedly) While Haas is running a Torro Ferrari...... Both did roughly 3+years of planning. Both used multiple bases in multiple countries.

Not much to pick between the two. I honestly have no idea which is better. I hope Haas doesn't end up the bloated, overrated, high 9-figure per year, committee run field fillers that Toyota were.


To be honest, the only reason Toyota scored on debut was because the rest of the field disintegrated. Salo also got lucky that with the lengthy SC, the team were able to repair the car after he hit debris going through the scrapyard that had formed at turn 1. :D

So yeah, me and Miguel98 both claimed Haas were more impressive than Toyota in our race review, which should go live on the website in the next few hours. [/shameless plug]
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by F1000X »

What if the Austrian Grand Prix was a night race?
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by WeirdKerr »

F1000X wrote:What if the Austrian Grand Prix was a night race?


it would be a dull track as it is the backdrop of the mountains which would not be seen is probably the only appeal......
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Izzyeviel »

Indycar liveries are so much more better and colourful than the drab offerings from F1 teams.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Aislabie »

Izzyeviel wrote:Indycar liveries are so much more better and colourful than the drab offerings from F1 teams.


It irritates me that Indycar teams don't have consistent liveries across the team, makes it harder to keep track of as a (very) casual fan.

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Motion passed, albeit with the following footnote:
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by CaptainGetz12 »

Aislabie wrote:
It irritates me that Indycar teams don't have consistent liveries across the team, makes it harder to keep track of as a (very) casual fan.



But-But my sponsorships!
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Aislabie »

CaptainGetz12 wrote:
Aislabie wrote:
It irritates me that Indycar teams don't have consistent liveries across the team, makes it harder to keep track of as a (very) casual fan.



But-But my sponsorships!


Just stick 'em on a Benetton livery, it'll be fine. I'm sure you'll find some space somewhere...

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Re: Ponderbox

Post by novitopoli »

What were your misconceptions about Formula One when you started following this sport?

I watched my first race in 2003, thus I thought for a long time single-lap qualifying had always been the norm before the (now again) current knockout system.
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Londoner wrote:Something I've thought about - what happens to our canon should we have a worldwide recession or some other outside event?

We'll be fine. It's Canon, non Kodak.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by tommykl »

novitopoli wrote:What were your misconceptions about Formula One when you started following this sport?

I watched my first race in 2003, thus I thought for a long time single-lap qualifying had always been the norm before the (now again) current knockout system.

I was about 8 when I started, so I couldn't possibly fathom that the drivers, constructors and tracks were any different before. Imagine my surprise when 2005 came around. Montoya in a McLaren? That can't be right! And what's all this about a race in Turkey?
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

I can only really remember the shock from when I first started reading books about the sport's history and seeing how comparatively alien the cars used to look in the 1950s.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Nuppiz »

I started watching in the mid-90s as a teeny weeny brat, so naturally I thought in-race refuelling had always been part of the sport. How wrong was I...
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Nessafox »

My dad once wrongfully told me 6-wheeled cars once used to be the norm, so i believed that for a while :P He also told me Mugen was french, because it was running in the back of a Ligier. (yeah he's a bit of an idiot when it comes to F1 knowledge). Also for some reason i don't know, i somehow got convinced Panis was a teammate of Diniz at Forti and that Katayama drove one of those fluorescent green cars, because he had to be,considering both the car and name looked awesome. It was also a shock when Schumacher went to Ferrari. Altough i didn't properly follow F1 until the last race of 1997, the fragments i saw before did give me some wrong impression. Also 'Jos Verstappen and Ralf Schumacher crashes at nearly every race' as they happened to do so whenever i watched. In Jos' case, that reputation wasn't entirely unjustified, though.
Also, as on one of my gameboy games, there was 'lap record: re-built', and as i didn't understand english back then, i thought Re-built was an actual drivers name. :facepalm:
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Izzyeviel »

novitopoli wrote:What were your misconceptions about Formula One when you started following this sport?

I watched my first race in 2003, thus I thought for a long time single-lap qualifying had always been the norm before the (now again) current knockout system.


I started watching in 1989, I always thought Mclaren would win everything, every year and that Ferrari's were shite. Also that no car would ever be as pretty as the Leyton House... the Jordan came close... but nah.
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Re: Ponderbox

Post by Meatwad »

Not really a misconception but silly ignorance... When I watched a couple of races in 2009, which got me interested in F1 after years of not watching it, I didn't realize how much the performance of the cars could fluctuate during a season. When I saw Fisichella qualify on pole and finish second at Spa in a Force India (who I knew hadn't scored points before), I thought he was by far the best driver on the grid. A little later I heard he would replace Massa at Ferrari and genuinely expected him to win every single race until the end of the season. :facepalm:
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