The 2016 Italian Grand Prix Thread

Post by **Ataxia** » 01 Sep 2016, 09:42

To celebrate the Italian Grand Prix, I've written a little thing about one of our old favourite teams and look at the benefit it had on the aspirations of Italian drivers. You can check it out here: http://gprejects.com/centrale/opinion-i ... -a-minardi

novitopoli · Post by **novitopoli** » 01 Sep 2016, 09:57

Great article! There's just a small remark I would like to make: you've written

With the recent rumblings over the future of the Italian Grand Prix, the Automobile Club d’Italia’s position would certainly be strengthened with a few home interests on the grid aside from Ferrari.

On the other hand, one of the reasons why there aren't any more home interests on the grid aside from Ferrari (read: no Italian drivers) lies in the ACI's weak position, mainly due to internal power struggles and political interference. This was a much-discussed issue back in 2013, when Valsecchi was ultimately denied a chance at Lotus: many argued that a stronger ACI would have led to some pressure from Bernie on the team to give the Italian a seat.

noiceinmydrink · Post by **noiceinmydrink** » 01 Sep 2016, 10:34

Joining the choir as well, very well written piece.

If Felipe is indeed announcing his retirement, I'd like to see him get a podium here. He loves Italy, Italy loves him and so do I. Go Felipe!

Post by **Ataxia** » 01 Sep 2016, 18:53

novitopoli wrote:Great article! There's just a small remark I would like to make: you've written

With the recent rumblings over the future of the Italian Grand Prix, the Automobile Club d’Italia’s position would certainly be strengthened with a few home interests on the grid aside from Ferrari.

On the other hand, one of the reasons why there aren't any more home interests on the grid aside from Ferrari (read: no Italian drivers) lies in the ACI's weak position, mainly due to internal power struggles and political interference. This was a much-discussed issue back in 2013, when Valsecchi was ultimately denied a chance at Lotus: many argued that a stronger ACI would have led to some pressure from Bernie on the team to give the Italian a seat.

That's very interesting, and I guess it could be seen as a bit of a self-perpetuating cycle in that case. I'm glad you guys liked the article, guess it's not too bad for a shitty little opinion piece!

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 01 Sep 2016, 18:55

Ataxia wrote:guess it's not too bad for a shitty little opinion piece!

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 01 Sep 2016, 21:36

Well I liked it Ataxia, and that has to count for something, right?

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 02 Sep 2016, 03:51

Stop feeding bis attention-seeking, would you? It is good and he knows it, he just wants people to praise him even more, needy ponce that he is..

Post by **Londoner** » 02 Sep 2016, 16:50

I really, really hope this is either a misquotation or mistranslation, because Verstappen can't be this classless and crass, surely. Shades of JPM from 15 years ago.

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/verstappen-villeneuve-should-watch-what-he-says-because-he-killed-someone_sto5817746/story.shtml

The Red Bull PR machine may be about to explode. Either that or they're gonna go full in with marketing Verstappen as the villain of Formula.

tBone · Post by **tBone** » 02 Sep 2016, 17:12

East Londoner wrote:I really, really hope this is either a misquotation or mistranslation, because Verstappen can't be this classless and crass, surely. Shades of JPM from 15 years ago.

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/verstappen-villeneuve-should-watch-what-he-says-because-he-killed-someone_sto5817746/story.shtml

The Red Bull PR machine may be about to explode. Either that or they're gonna go full in with marketing Verstappen as the villain of Formula.

It's not mistranslated. This definitely was not a sensible comment from Verstappen and he has definitely lost a lot of sympathy in my opinion.

This doesn't justify anything, but Villeneuve also didn't gain any sympathy by the comment Verstappen reacted to.

Fetzie · Post by **Fetzie** » 02 Sep 2016, 17:26

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37258313

Verstappen has been called to a meeting with Charlie Whiting, who has given him a "gentle warning" that he could be black/white-flagged (and subsequently black-flagged) if he continues to pull moves like his defense against Raikonnen.

Possibly to avoid a discussion (or perhaps a blazing row) in the drivers' meeting?

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 02 Sep 2016, 17:29

East Londoner wrote:I really, really hope this is either a misquotation or mistranslation, because Verstappen can't be this classless and crass, surely. Shades of JPM from 15 years ago.

He can. That is where his age truly shows. Most 18-year olds simply do not possess the social skills to fully comprehend just how unacceptable such comments are. Fully owning up to a mistake is a skill most actual adults lack, so no chance a spoiled child with a dysfuctional family has it.

Post by **mario** » 02 Sep 2016, 18:42

Fetzie wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37258313

Verstappen has been called to a meeting with Charlie Whiting, who has given him a "gentle warning" that he could be black/white-flagged (and subsequently black-flagged) if he continues to pull moves like his defense against Raikonnen.

Possibly to avoid a discussion (or perhaps a blazing row) in the drivers' meeting?

I think that is indeed the case - it seems that Verstappen's behaviour was not discussed in the pre-race driver briefing, perhaps because Whiting had that separate meeting with him to discuss his behaviour.

tBone wrote:
East Londoner wrote:I really, really hope this is either a misquotation or mistranslation, because Verstappen can't be this classless and crass, surely. Shades of JPM from 15 years ago.

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/verstappen-villeneuve-should-watch-what-he-says-because-he-killed-someone_sto5817746/story.shtml

The Red Bull PR machine may be about to explode. Either that or they're gonna go full in with marketing Verstappen as the villain of Formula.

It's not mistranslated. This definitely was not a sensible comment from Verstappen and he has definitely lost a lot of sympathy in my opinion.

This doesn't justify anything, but Villeneuve also didn't gain any sympathy by the comment Verstappen reacted to.

Verstappen does seem to have been lashing out against anybody who has criticised him - he has said that Vettel and Kimi should be ashamed of their behaviour, whilst the comments he has made about Villeneuve seem almost calculated to provoke a backlash and is likely to cost him quite a bit of support.

As East Londoner says, I imagine that Red Bull will now be working very hard to try and limit the damage that Max is causing by his comments - and also working to try and calm Max down a bit. When Max has been warned of a potential disqualification for his driving, the last thing they need is him getting as wound up as he was in Spa and starting those sorts of moves all over again.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 02 Sep 2016, 19:55

I want to like Verstappen. If he's already beating Ricciardo sometimes at 18, there's a danger of him having a Schumacher streak and then I'd really like it if I at least didn't hate him. Like Klon said, hopefully this'll disappear with age.

Also, Villeneuve said something sensible, even if it is just the existing majority opinion. I'm still not used to that happening.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 02 Sep 2016, 21:51

I can't honestly be the only one to actually be glad of Max for putting his reputation on the line with comments like this can I? Yes they're dumb, immature, ill-advised, whatever. But at least he's got the guts, or naivety, to say them! Makes a change to be honest!

Post by **Ataxia** » 03 Sep 2016, 09:48

You just KNOW Jos told him to say that. I bet he's been sitting on that one for 15 years and figured "If I can't say it, I'll continue to live vicariously through Max"...

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 03 Sep 2016, 10:41

So, hypothetical situation here:

Verstappen does some silly move at Monza and gets a race ban.

Who takes his seat for the following race?

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 03 Sep 2016, 11:52

Rob Dylan wrote:So, hypothetical situation here:

Verstappen does some silly move at Monza and gets a race ban.

Who takes his seat for the following race?

Either:

Sainz promoted and Gasly takes over at Toro Rosso, or Sainz stays where he is and Gasly takes the Red Bull seat (he's the reserve driver for both teams).

My guess is the former.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 03 Sep 2016, 13:16

Aside from the Mercedes, which Q3 runners set their fastest Q2 time on the softs?

noiceinmydrink · Post by **noiceinmydrink** » 03 Sep 2016, 13:18

Rosberg got embarrassed there. Hope both Mercs take themselves out otherwise we're probably in for a snoozer.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 03 Sep 2016, 15:25

Mexicola wrote:Hope both Mercs take themselves out otherwise we're probably in for a snoozer.

I mean, I enjoyed the 2012-14 Italian GPs more than most people, but if last year's race is anything to go by

Behind the Mercedes, at this point it's fairly likely Ferrari will take that 3rd place tomorrow, but I think they'll be challenged by Bottas and Red Bull, based on the times they set in race simulations from FP2. And provided Force India struggles and Gutierrez bins his opportunity at points again, hopefully Wehrlein will capitalize on that.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 03 Sep 2016, 18:34

I am hoping we get a repeat of 88 - Rosberg's car to develop a problem and Gutierrez to accidentally crash into Lewis when he's lapping him. Ferrari 1-2. Well, I can dream.....

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 03 Sep 2016, 20:05

Surely it would be more appropriate for a rookie to be the one to take out Hamilton. It's a good thing we have a certain 'Ocon' who's quite new to the sport and may not quite understand the backmarker rules

watka · Post by **watka** » 03 Sep 2016, 21:11

Bit late on the uptake but I am shocked by Verstappen's comments. He really needs someone to help him with his PR if he is not going to take a moment to stop and think before he speaks. No one is comparing his actions in Spa with what happened to Villeneuve in Australia. He accuses Villeneuve of being disrespectful, but if anything Jacques is more qualified than the norm to speak out about Verstappen as he knows what can happen.

Verstappen is lucky not to have picked up a ban; Grosjean was banned for less in 2012. It is worrying how drivers are coming through the sport and thinking they are invincible - I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this before. You only have to look at lower formula to see how irresponsible some younger drivers are and Verstappen is the first of these to make it into F1 (there is an argument to say that Hamilton actually set the trend with his aggressive driving and constant self-comparisons with Senna). Formula 1 is not a computer game (well it is as well, but you know what I mean), you can't just weave around, dive into non-existent gaps leaning on/smashing into opponents, and fighting anyone who disagrees with your driving.

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 04 Sep 2016, 12:06

Oh Palmer.

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 04 Sep 2016, 12:27

Is Kvyat even likely to last until the end of the season?

Also, the Ferrari strategist should be banned for life.

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 04 Sep 2016, 12:33

Booooring

rachel1990 · Post by **rachel1990** » 04 Sep 2016, 13:32

Well what a rubbish race. Even this thread couldn't even reach page 2 until after the finish.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 04 Sep 2016, 13:36

rachel1990 wrote:Well what a rubbish race. Even this thread couldn't even reach page 2 until after the finish.

I thought it was good...

Post by **Nuppiz** » 04 Sep 2016, 13:37

Even the stewards were bored, as they gave Nasr a time penalty even though he had already retired from the race! :lol:

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 04 Sep 2016, 13:42

Did anyone else see someone watching on the oval where it passes over the track between Serraglio and Ascari? While less dangerous than walking on the actual track where the race takes place, I can't help but wonder if that was allowed.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 04 Sep 2016, 13:44

Waris wrote:Did anyone else see someone watching on the oval where it passes over the track between Serraglio and Ascari? While less dangerous than walking on the actual track where the race takes place, I can't help but wonder if that was allowed.

I remember seeing the same thing during one of the GP2 races two years ago (?), someone just sitting in the middle of the banking as it passes over the track. Made me wonder the same...

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 04 Sep 2016, 13:46

That's why I'm starting to dislike both Monza and Monaco races. Usually a borefest under normal conditions.

Post by **Ataxia** » 04 Sep 2016, 13:47

rachel1990 wrote:Well what a rubbish race. Even this thread couldn't even reach page 2 until after the finish.

Constructive criticism as usual. Possibly even a post of year candidate for your tremendous insight.

Anyway, I found Haas' strategy for Romain Grosjean extremely puzzling; if he'd popped on some mediums he'd possibly have had the edge on Hulkenberg in the latter stages of the race. Instead, those worn-out super-softs ended up putting him at risk of Button. Perhaps, having only brought one set, the mediums weren't race-ready...

noiceinmydrink · Post by **noiceinmydrink** » 04 Sep 2016, 13:50

Dj_bereta wrote:That's why I'm starting to dislike both Monza and Monaco races. Usually a borefest under normal conditions.

Monaco's not that bad in my opinion, it can produce some pretty good races sometimes. I can't remember there being any good races and Monza recently, apart from like 2008. I'd say alternate it with Imola or get rid of it altogether.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 04 Sep 2016, 13:53

Not the most exciting race of the season, although races than are 1-2 stoppers tend to be this way. Haas have never run the mediums at Monza (stating the obvious) and have tended to be more agressive with strategy, with Grosjean they had to do something different as he was out of position although in hindsight mediums could have been a better bet.

Mexicola wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:That's why I'm starting to dislike both Monza and Monaco races. Usually a borefest under normal conditions.

Monaco's not that bad in my opinion, it can produce some pretty good races sometimes. I can't remember there being any good races and Monza recently, apart from like 2008. I'd say alternate it with Imola or get rid of it altogether.

2012 with Perez coming through was not bad

Post by **tommykl** » 04 Sep 2016, 13:58

It wasn't a particularly exciting race, though there were enough good moves scattered throughout to make it watchable.

Rosberg controlled the race through and through, thoroughly deserved victory. Hamilton definitely benefited from Ferrari's complete lack of strategical nous, otherwise he may have come third or fourth. As it stands, he keeps the championship lead by two points. The championship is back on.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 04 Sep 2016, 14:43

andrew wrote:2012 with Perez coming through was not bad

This guy knows what he's talking about.

This race wasn't great, but compared to the last F1 race at Monza, it was way better.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 04 Sep 2016, 15:36

Mexicola wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:That's why I'm starting to dislike both Monza and Monaco races. Usually a borefest under normal conditions.

Monaco's not that bad in my opinion, it can produce some pretty good races sometimes. I can't remember there being any good races and Monza recently, apart from like 2008. I'd say alternate it with Imola or get rid of it altogether.

I wouldn't go that far. I really enjoyed the 2011 race.

EuroBrun · Post by **EuroBrun** » 04 Sep 2016, 16:40

Definitely not a funny race to watch, luckily Hamilton had a bad start so we saw him pushing hard to pass the cars that had overtaken him in the first corner. Ferrari did the best with what they have now, maybe they could have differentiated the strategies for their cars, but the results would not have changed imo.

Having said that I would not swap Monza for any other circuit: I want to see a range of different track and after the loss of the old Hockenheim Monza is unique.

Post by **mario** » 04 Sep 2016, 19:26

tommykl wrote:It wasn't a particularly exciting race, though there were enough good moves scattered throughout to make it watchable.

Rosberg controlled the race through and through, thoroughly deserved victory. Hamilton definitely benefited from Ferrari's complete lack of strategical nous, otherwise he may have come third or fourth. As it stands, he keeps the championship lead by two points. The championship is back on.

Like EuroBrun, I think that Hamilton probably would have ended up ahead of the two Ferrari's even if they were on a different strategy.

If you look at the lap times, Ferrari couldn't really stretch their first stint out any longer than they did - whilst Hamilton's times were steadily improving, both Ferrari drivers had seen their lap times beginning to worsen quite noticeably by the time their first stop rolled around. Hamilton was starting to take some very big chunks out of their lead just before their pit stops (1.3s in two laps), so they had to make a stop when they did or Hamilton might well have passed them on track in the next few laps anyway.

However, they were faced with a difficult situation - they would have had to do 37 odd laps on the medium tyres to make a one stop strategy work. Now, that probably would have been achievable - although the most anybody did was 32 laps on a set of mediums - but Ferrari's race pace on the medium tyres during the practise sessions had been quite bad in comparison to Mercedes.

Furthermore, given that Hamilton was going to be going much deeper into the race on his softs, they would have known that they would be vulnerable to him towards the end of the race if they did try a one stop race on the medium tyres, since he'd have a sizeable tyre life advantage.

To a certain extent, it feels as if Ferrari's strategy wasn't really aiming to try and defend against Hamilton, who probably would have passed them anyway. It felt like more of a defensive strategy that was designed to secure them a fairly safe 3rd and 4th place, which it succeeded in doing in this instance.